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OBAMA in 2004: "We pray to an awesome God in blue states and

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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:01 AM
Original message
OBAMA in 2004: "We pray to an awesome God in blue states and
. . .and we don't like federal agents sniffing around our libraries in red states."

This quote is from his keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic convention, the one that earned him the admiration of many Americans yet WHENEVER he stays true to the themes expressed in his speech DUers go batshit crazy accusing him of pandering and being too friendly with Republicans. The man is neither pandering or selling out, he is being true to who he is. It seems that many on DU want to dictate how he should be instead of letting the man define himself, the way he did in that 2004 speech.

Fortunately for Obama the anti-faith, anti-unity zealots at DU do not make up even 5% of the Democratic primary voters.

This overreaction to his faith tour in South Carolina is a damn joke.

Flame away.
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. That speech was fantastic
Probably the last time I've been deeply inspired by the words of a public official. I'd love to watch him give that speech again.

No flames from me. I agree with everything you said.

:)
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. C-Span will run it now and then.
And it's worth listening to again and again.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. You can watch it @
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thank you for the link!
:)
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. I like Obama, but unity can be overrated
If you are going to do some of the things that you feel are right for the country, some people are going to have to be made angry. maybe even a lot of people. If you want to end the Iraq War, institute national health care and legalize gay marriage, you are going to make a lot of people very angry. They will fight us every step of they way, and even when they lose the battle they will be bitching about it for years. But this does not change the fact that these policies are still the right thing to do, even if they are polarizing.

Rebelling against Britain in 1775-76 was polarizing. Many Americans opposed this course of action and openly supported the British. Ending slavery was polarizing. So was ending Jim Crow. We could have avoided these issues all together because they were said to be polarizing, but eventually we forged ahead and did what had to be done because it was right for the country.
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. People just want any excuse to trash him, wndy.
Obama has never pretended to be anything other than himself and how he always is.
They loved him until he entered the race and either they think he usurped their candidates rightful place or is a threat to them.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm a non-believer and I LOVE me some Obama
Hillary Clinton is a Calvinist evangelical who attends prayer meetings with people like Sam Brownback and Rick Santorum. She co-sponsored a bill that would allow pharmacists to refuse to dispense prescriptions if it conflicts with their beliefs. She has also stated that she thinks there should be more religion in government.

I have no problem with the Dems reaching out to religious communities, so long as they understand the importance of separation of church and state and that respecting the wide variety of faith in this country means NOT pandering to fundamentalist reactionaries. Obama gets that. I say he should go into those churches and get those votes and not worry about the naysayers.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Here here!
I'm pretty agnostic but I understand the role of faith in peoples lives as well as its impact on politics.
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I am not religious myself but,
I respect someone's right to worship if they are. and if they aren't shoving it at me.
Besides, what so many here don't understand is that there is a great tradition of religion with the African American Community.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. As an African American I concur
:kick:
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. One thing Clinton and Obama agree upon: there just isn't enough religion in the mix
Yet another reason why I like Edwards so much: separation of church and state.

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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. That is what you say, but you do know at some point he will campaign in Black churches. . .
. . .and let's see what your reaction is then.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Obama has actually taken a stand
Both against the phony right wingers AND for a place for all religions and non-believers as well.

"we once were, we're no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of non-believers. We should acknowledge this and realize that when we're formulating policies from the state house to the Senate floor to the White House, we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."


http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/204017.aspx
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Thank you. Obama acknowledged non-believers in a major speech.
Something that NO other candidate has done, including Edwards. I like Edwards (a lot) but I'll never forget his syrupy pseudo-sincere objection to gay marriage due to his faith. :puke: If that wasn't pandering, I don't know what is.

And d'ya think Clinton will EVER acknowledge that there are atheists in this country? I don't think so. In fact, here is her comment to a question put to her about how she dealt with her husband's infidelity: At those moments in time when you are tested, it is absolutely essential that you be grounded in your faith, Okay, that's fine for her, but why is she making a statement that implies that "faith" is how EVERYONE should deal with a personal trial? Because that is exactly what that comment is doing, IMO.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Interview with a right wing fundie
Some guy named David Brody with CBNNews. Some Christian thing. That's what I like about Obama, he doesn't say different things to different people. He just tells it straight to everybody and brings people to where he is. And, the ones we can't bring along, well we just have to beat them.

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/204017.aspx
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. Edwards: "You don't have to believe in God to be moral."
Okay, this is not a "major speech", but I'm just looking quickly and on the fly. He is, head and shoulders, WAY OUT IN FRONT ON THE SUBJECT OF KEEPING RELIGION OUT OF THE POLITICAL FORUM. He's more forward-leaning on this than ANYONE else, including Kucinich. Not only does he deserve great credit for this, it should be seen as an extension of his deep belief in fairness. Please read the Daily Kos link below.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/6/13936/85325

He has been way out in front on keeping religion out of the debate, and this exchange from the Logo forum shows that fairly clearly, and also puts the gay marriage issue into context.

SOLMONESE:
And finally, Senator, you've expressed your opposition to same sex marriage, and you've raised your faith as part of the reason for your opposition. I'm
wondering if you could talk a little bit about what is it within your religion that's leading you to this position?
EDWARDS:
Well, you know, I have to tell you I shouldn't have said that, because first of all, I believe to my core in equality. My campaign for the presidency is about
equality across the board.
And I listened to your discussion with Senator Obama a few minutes ago. I was backstage, and I was able to hear what you were saying and what anyone
here was saying. And it makes perfect sense to me that gay and lesbian couples would say, "Civil unions -- great; 1,100 federal benefits -- great; you know, give
us these rights. We deserve these rights." And they're absolutely right about that. But it stops short of real equality.
It makes perfect sense to me that people would feel that way. I totally can understand it. It makes sense. And the only thing I would say about the faith
question is I think from my perspective it is wrong, because we have seen a president in the last six-plus years who tries to impose his faith on the American
people. And I think it is a mistake, and I will not impose my faith belief on the American people. I don't believe any president of the United States should do that.
I believe in the separation of church and state.
And these things that we have talked about -- all these substantive issues of equality, which is really what the discussion has been about, these are part of my
heart soul and core. And they are not just issues that I will answer when I am in front of you. They are things that I will fight for every day, both in the
presidential campaign and as president of the United States, because I think America desperately needs it, and I believe in it deeply.

CAN YOU IMAGINE HILLARY CLINTON SAYING THAT? Not bloodly likely; her very heart and soul is devoted to AVOIDING anything truly controversial.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Answer this, what will your reaction be if Edwards campaigns at reaches out to Black churches
I don't think any Democratic candidate can court the Black vote without doing so.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Gladly. My reaction would depend on the context, frequency and content
If he went there because those were natural gathering places and he spoke about the things he generally speaks about (fairness, poverty, health care, etc.) I wouldn't have any problems at all. If he talks about the misuse of religion by the right wing, I wouldn't have a problem. If, on the other hand, he evokes faith as a justification for his policies and plays up his faith (as Obama does in an attempt to portray himself worthy because he's not a godless inferior) I'd be very displeased.

It's a fine line, but the line is basically this: when someone says or intimates "vote for me because I'm a believer", my mental solenoid snaps shut and I turn away. Not only has Edwards NOT done that, he's specifically and regularly stated that that's not to be mentioned.

When he casually says "bless you" to someone in a political Q & A session--as he has--this passes my sniff test and seems just like a personal and relaxed expression of welcoming approval, not an evocation of the big whoseywhatzit or an attempt to make points.

Both Obama and Clinton play it WAY too much.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Well lets archive this thread and see how Edwards behaves in Black churches
:kick:
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. "from a crowd of 1,800 at Brookland Baptist Church"
AP: Edwards Wraps Up Early Campaign Blitz

Jim Davenport
Associated Press
Dec 30, 2006

John Edwards, Presidential Hopeful and Ex-Senator, Wraps Up Early Campaign Blitz in Carolinas

WEST COLUMBIA, S.C. Presidential hopeful John Edwards, returning to the scene of his only primary victory in his 2004 bid, said Saturday that fellow Democrats should focus on running Congress rather than trying to impeach President Bush.

He also disagreed with an audience member who suggested, on the day Saddam Hussein was hanged in Iraq, that Bush should face the same fate.

But Edwards said he "unequivocally and without any question" rejected an escalation of the war. "There is no military solution to what is happening in Iraq," he said to cheers from a crowd of 1,800 at Brookland Baptist Church, one of the state's largest black churches.

Luevera Caeser, one of about a dozen questioners at the town hall-style event, asked whether Edwards thought Bush should face impeachment because he "lied to the nation."

Edwards said the Republican-led impeachment of former President Clinton was driven by politics and damaged the nation. "I don't think the way to correct that mistake is by another mistake," Edwards said. "We don't have to get in the mud with pigs."

Another questioner, Davey van Greenen, asked Edwards whether Bush should be tried and face the same fate as Saddam. "He should be hanged in public himself," van Greenen said to considerable applause.

"I'll say to you very directly I don't agree with what you just said," Edwards responded, to similar applause.

Edwards' biggest ovations came on domestic issues, particularly health care. "We should say finally and without equivocation it is time for universal health care in America," he said.

He also said he wants an increase in the minimum wage, a better education system, national energy independence and a United States that is a world leader.

"It's time for us to ask Americans to be patriotic about something other than war," he said.

Edwards, who was born in South Carolina but launched his political career from North Carolina, won the 2004 primary here with 45 percent of the vote to John Kerry's 30 percent.

The stop at one of South Carolina's largest black churches came as the one-term senator neared the end of his multistate announcement tour. After a New Orleans launch, Edwards headed to Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada.

Edwards returned to North Carolina Saturday evening and was greeted by about 5,000 people near his campaign office in Chapel Hill, according to campaign officials.

"I came here tonight to ask all of you to join us in this cause, because I can't do it by myself," Edwards said. "We have to start today."

Edwards took no questions at the rally and hardly mentioned Bush, instead encouraging supporters to promote his vision for the country.

Bush carried North Carolina in 2004, and Rachel Frew of Chapel Hill said she knows people who are still unhappy Edwards only served one term as a senator.

"I think he's going to have some work to do in this state to carry North Carolina," Frew said.

Associated Press writer Elizabeth Dunbar contributed to this report from Chapel Hill.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Good for Edwards, I didn't see that part of the LOGO forum
Unfortunately, most of the country didn't either. He explained himself at the gay and lesbian forum to smooth things over, knowing that hardly anyone outside of that community would see it.

I am truly glad that he expressed support for separation of church and state.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. THANK YOU
I get uneasy when I hear politicians publicly referring to their invisible friend
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
9. The speech in Boston did put Senator Obama on a lot of people's political
map, and my thought is that as absolutely great as it was in content and delivery, it was likely only a fraction of the depth in the man himself.

I'm drawn to talented people. Senator Obama is one such. His detractors gamble that voters will not pay proper attention to a great spirit walking among them and asking them for a collective commitment of time and attention.

My guess is they're mistaken. Obama's star is still on the rise.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. the only one who challenges the radical right
Nobody ever gives him credit for that either.

"My intention was to contrast the heated partisan rhetoric of a distinct minority of Christian leaders with the vast majority of Evangelical Christians - conservatives included - who believe that hate has no place in our politics. When you have pastors and television pundits who appear to explicitly coordinate with one political party; when you're implying that your fellow Americans are traitors, terrorist sympathizers or akin to the devil himself; then I think you're attempting to hijack the faith of those who follow you for your own personal or political ends.

But as I said in my speech, it's critically important to understand that these are the "so-called" leaders, not the real leaders."

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/204017.aspx
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
14. Reaction to the faith tour in Carolina ought to be withheld until it
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 12:45 AM by Old Crusoe
actually occurs.

I think there may be other, larger fish to fry in an idea like that, not least of which would be taking the New Testament to the people who are at this hour prepared to vote yet again for some Republican yahoo.

Let those people hear their faith spoken of and spoken to by an up-north scholar. That's the dinner table version. The out-behind-the-garage version is, if they know more about Christianity than Senator Obama, let them knock him, and if they don't, they need to shut their damn mouths for a minute and do some serious listening. They might just learn something.

Should Barack Obama go on to become the 44th U.S. president, it isn't difficult to conceive that this tour -- this re-connectivity and collective re-imagining he's working with here -- could be the catalyst that makes him our next president.

At the very least it bears watching, and respectful watching at that.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
19. K&R
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
21. I thought he said a totally awesome God
:shrug:
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. He said "awesome". In your mind, you naturally heard "totally awesome"...
n/t
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. He didn't - he is not responsible for anyone else's snarky memory
Your comment is pure snark and likely not true, the tone of that speech was uplifting and serious, with no hint of Valley girl.

I know TPTB are ramming Hillary down our throats, and she will almost certainly be the nominee, but others like Obama are far more likely to be able to heal the rifts in this country. That speech and Kerry's in the 2004 convention spoke to our better selves. I honestly do not see why Clinton supporters, with their candidate far ahead, need to engage in character assignation - which this is though a mild one. That is a speech that contained a very serious plea to rise above the ugliness of the current political scene.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Yes but some DUers don't want to rise about the ugliness. . .
:kick:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
25. People who bash Obama's unity message forget that the MAJORITY is on OUR side.
IMO most of the screeds attacking Obama's rhetoric about unity are based on much-hyped notion of the US as a hyper-polarized "Red State/Blue State" nation. That notion is a BS media fabrication. Most Americans agree on a lot more things them we disagree with.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
26. This speach turned me off to Obama big time
Despite the scientifically real fact that blue states are way less religious than red states, he throws atheists under the bus in an attempt to out-religion the Republicans and gain about 3 more votes in Ohio. Instead of saying a big fuck you to the theocrats, he says fuck you to a major piece of the damn base.
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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Democrats are religious, however they do not wear it on their sleeves.
Republicans are not the only ones who are religious. However, Democats choose more than one issue to vote on.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. He does the exact opposite
We can't challenge the theocrats unless we talk about religion.

"My intention was to contrast the heated partisan rhetoric of a distinct minority of Christian leaders with the vast majority of Evangelical Christians - conservatives included - who believe that hate has no place in our politics. When you have pastors and television pundits who appear to explicitly coordinate with one political party; when you're implying that your fellow Americans are traitors, terrorist sympathizers or akin to the devil himself; then I think you're attempting to hijack the faith of those who follow you for your own personal or political ends."

"Whatever we once were, we're no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of non-believers. We should acknowledge this and realize that when we're formulating policies from the state house to the Senate floor to the White House, we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/204017.aspx

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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. And this has what to do with his "Awesome God" speech?
Obama's sole intention with that speech was to throw atheists under the bus and pretend that the blue states really are just as devout as the red. When you have many states over 20% atheist this is a very bad idea.
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Hard_Work Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Huh?!?!?
Where did he do that?
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Forrest Greene Donating Member (946 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
33. Maybe It's Because
...those of us who don't need invisible superheroes who live in outer space think of it as more gruesome than awesome.

Or maybe it's just the smug, ignore-ant intransigence of sentiments such as "Flame away."

Whatever.

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CTD Donating Member (732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
34. I much prefer REALITY-BASED rhetoric.
The less religious rhetoric the better.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
37. Pandering to a group who will NEVER vote for you
isn't the brightest thing to do....
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Very narrow minded of you, a significant part of the faith vote is the African American church
Which always votes Democratic. But if you want to embrace your shallow view of the faith vote go right ahead, but any Democrat that needs the Black vote is wise to embrace the faith community.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Now, lets be honest here
He's gone after the "evangelical" vote- the fundie element too.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Oh the horror. . .
. . .reaching out to people of faith :sarcasm:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. All I said was that it was pandering to people
who would never vote for you- and vehemently oppose most everything that you stand for.

Not inspiring behavior, considering what's gone on over the last 15 years.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
43. That was a great speech!
The message of unity was exactly what I thought we needed in 2004.

In contrast, the Republicans were red-faced and screaming as though Democrats had been in charge for 4 years and screwed up the country.

History will look back and see the stark difference. Obama was wonderful giving that speech! :applause:
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