Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Exactly How the Good Guys Finally Won

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:38 PM
Original message
Exactly How the Good Guys Finally Won
The leaders of today's Congress have made clear through numerous lobby visits that unless we can produce polls that show congressional elections in November 2008 hang on the question of impeachment, nobody's going to be impeached. Bush and Cheney can continue to ignore subpoenas, spy illegally, kidnap, torture, murder, and rewrite laws. They can launch another illegal war. They can rig the elections. They could barbeque babies on the White House lawn. It doesn't matter. They will not be impeached.

Never mind the whole question of whether future presidents and vice presidents will be expected to obey any laws. It's all about elections. The Democrats played this same game when Reagan was investigated in the Iran Contra scandal. The Democrats exercised restraint. In the end, they restrained themselves right into a defeat and created the Bush dynasty.

But things were handled differently in 1973. The Democrats made impeachment an issue. In fact, they made it THE issue. And the polls spoke loudly and clearly to congress members of both parties. Some Democrats, such as Illinois Congressman Dan Rostenkowski, started out adamantly opposed to impeachment. But they were pretty easily brought around. The Majority Leader was a Democrat who saw being a Democrat as something noticeably different from being a Republican. His name was Tip O'Neill, and his role in the impeachment of President Richard Nixon is highlighted in Jimmy Breslin's "How the Good Guys Finally Won." Here's are key passages:

((O'Neill)) came into this room in June with a new weapon, another mirror, a forty-page notebook put together by William Hamilton and Staff, pollsters, for William Welsh of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees. The topic sentence of the report said, "In April our study shows 43 per cent will vote for a Congressman who is inclined to vote for impeachment; 29 per cent would vote for a Congressman who would not be so inclined and 28 per cent feel the Congressman's stand on impeachment would make no difference at this time."

A further interpretation of the figures showed that "50 per cent of Republican voters will vote against a Congressman who is inclined not to vote for impeachment, while only 7 per cent of Democrats will vote for a Congressman who is inclined to vote against impeachment."

... O'Neill went right up to Rostenkowski, because Rostenkowski is Mayor Daley's play caller with the Illinois Democrats in Congress. A word from Danny is a word from the Hall. Deviation? Try Russia, not Cook County.

"Danny, ol pal, did you see this poll yet?" Tip O'Neill said.

"What poll?" Rostenkowski grumbled. He despises polls, but he had to ask about a poll because he is in politics and he is supposed to ask about a poll.

"It shows here that we could pick up as many as eighty seats the way it's going now," O'Neill said.

"Whew."

"And it shows here that there is no way for a Congressman in an urban district to win an election against anybody if he doesn't vote for impeachment."

"Where does it show that?"

"Here, look. Only seven percent of the Democrats will vote for a Congressman who is against impeachment. That means a Republican could beat a Democrat in a city if the Republican is for impeachment and the Democrat is against it. Can you imagine that? Say, that's right. You represent a city, don't you, Danny?"

O'Neill began to show the poll around. He told Thaddeus Dulski, who comes from upstate Erie County in New York, that the poll showed all rural votes being lost to a Congressman who is against impeachment. "But you don't have any farms in your district," he told Dulski. Dulski grumbled. He had a religious belief in the presidency. He also had a lot of farmers in his district. Out on the House floor, when O'Neill saw Angelo Roncallo, a Long Island Republican, he said, "Hey, Angie, old pal. Geez, but you really love it down here, don't you? Angie, I want you to know something. My door is always open to you, as you know. And to show you how much I think of you, Angie, my door is still going to be open to you next year when you're not going to be in Congress because of this impeachment." O'Neill gave a great, fun laugh. Roncallo laughed with him but not as much.


Here's the part where your history teacher says: Compare and Contrast.

The first thing you'll notice is that it was all about the damn elections back then, just the same as it is now. But somehow the Democrats saw winning the elections as dependent on doing their jobs, and in fact they won the biggest victories in many years and have never done as well since.

The second thing you'll notice is that just about everything else was completely different. Elections were losable for incumbents. The Democrats had started impeachment proceedings and made it an issue before the polls compelled them to. The media covered the story. The polling companies did the polls and published them. A labor union was pushing impeachment. And a Congressional leader was lobbying his colleagues in the direction of impeachment. Those six facts appear today to have come from some bizarre parallel universe.

Yet, if we are dedicated to saving this republic, we will endeavor to find a way to substitute for them. We will recruit pro-impeachment challengers to incumbents. We will use civil disobedience, media activism, and legal bribery to lobby Congress as hard as possible to take up impeachment. We will organize in swing districts and commission polls in them. We will report the results on progressive radio and the internet. And we will focus every tool we have on Nancy Pelosi. If we lose now, the good guys won't have won much thirty years ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Recommended in the 99th degree.
I have nothing to add.

Spot on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. Will they be serving potato salad with those barbecued babies?
When is American Idol back on? Is there a Nascar race this weekend?

Sorry David, gotta go. Larry is talking about Brittany losing custody of her kids.

Oh, BTW, great post :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Bind it in black leather, label it with gold lettering, and send it around!
The Gospel, the only Gospel for any kind of future for America is impeachment -- the legal, moral, intelligent, practical thing to do.

Short and exactly to the point! Recommend!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. Something strange is going on. When the Dems say it's about elections, they're lying.
They have to KNOW they're JEOPARDIZING their seats by NOT impeaching. But still they refuse.

Why?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. They Don't
They put on a pretty convincing impression of really believing that the way to win is to not impeach, which they base on polling that does not mention impeachment, combined with their distorted memory of the Clinton impeachment which they believe taught them that impeachment is bad. They've never read John Nichol's "The Genius of Impeachment," and they fail to remember these key points:
1. The public didn't want Clinton impeached but wants Bush and Cheney impeached
2. The Republicans shoved it down our throats and still hung onto... both houses of Congress and the White House
3. Every single other case of a move toward impeachment over 230 years has benefitted the party that brought it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. "The Republicans shoved it down our throats and still hung onto... both houses of Congress
and the White House."

All the talk about how the House managers of the impeachment process were going to pay a heavy price was just talk. Hyde, Lindsey Graham, LaHood, and all the rest got re-elected.

This strategic timidity that keeps them from doing their Constitutional duty is not only infuriating, it's stupid.

Thanks for the great post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
7. Not enough time. Not enough votes. Pretty simple, really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Not enough COURAGE, not enough INTEGRITY. simple. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
9. Another contrasting point is that
I feel the Congressional Democrats in 1974 as a whole were a lot stronger in their core beliefs, had stronger wills and were in general a lot tougher bunch. Of course, it was the old WWII generation in Congress at the time, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Good point Gman. In today's media, a quote can fly around the world and bite a politician in the
Edited on Tue Oct-02-07 07:36 AM by Ninga
ass before they finish their sentence.

Instant news, 24/7 365 around the world in seconds has done NOTHING to enlighten the masses, but to only train them like monkeys.....remote control in hand.


By in large, those of us who exchange views on DU are like a grain of sand, compared to the population of the US.

In terms of world history, the US is a teenager addicted to Wal-Mart, electronics, and fast food. I know my analysis is painted with a broad brush, but it's the only one I have, to explain the overriding apathy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
11. I'll tell you something else that happened
Edited on Tue Oct-02-07 11:46 AM by EstimatedProphet
When they did get around to discussing impeachment, it was only after the Nixon administration had been investigated for months and months, leading to a series of resignations that embarrassed the government and pointed directly to Nixon's involvement. Impeachment discussions would not and could not havehappened without them.

Now we have a bunch of people on this board that think Congress can go in and start impeachment proceedings tomorrow, and that it will work! No investigations needed, they just waste time anyway.

The reason impeachment became a possibility for Nixon was specifically because of the investigations. They are every bit as necessary now, if it will proceed. The investigations are what told all the Repub stalwarts that they'd better start rethinking their positions, or else they would be out on their asses come next election. It is the exact same thing today, only moreso - there's more Repubs in Congress now.

You really want impeachment to happen? Quit griping about 'useless investigations' then! They paint the picture to the general public that impeachment is warranted. And without them, Bush will sacrifice every assistant in the government for all the things he did, and there will be no way to show he was behind anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Your "logic," "facts," and "reason" will find no purchase here.
;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Call congress RIGHT FUCKING NOW !!!!!!!!!!
Edited on Tue Oct-02-07 11:52 AM by ronnykmarshall
IMPEACH PELOSI!

I'M VOTING GREEN!

BOYCOTT COKE!!

DON'T BUY GAS AT WALMART!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I am but a simple GD:P dweller.
Edited on Tue Oct-02-07 12:03 PM by Richardo

Your knowledge of politics and historical facts frightens and confuses me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. IMPEACHMENT NOW!!! WITH VANILLA ICE CREAM!!!!!!11
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. You're exactly right.
I wish more people around here would see the excellent points you've made.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BenEtheFrank Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Good point...
I agree we need to thoroughly investigate the many times B*ushCo has trampled the constitution. This will lay the groundwork necessary to prove the case for impeaching both B*ush and C*heney...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. Hey Dave, saw you speak on saturday, great post here,....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. How do we go about polling people? Can we hire a polling company?
Or maybe just let the big news companies, (not fixed of course) know that it will make for some great news.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 10th 2024, 03:51 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC