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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:44 PM
Original message
Hillary's campaign discipline is praised, but DNC party discipline ridiculed.
That's how you minimalize the role of someone who is trying to give all the states back their voice in the party....instead of just the 18 or 20 courted for years.

This is how you keep change from happening. You get bloggers on board with you, they make sure that the DNC with Dean as chair is not defended. You have lunch with bloggers, you hire them....and if anyone questions who is working for whom...you ban them from further posting.

The silence has been deafening in defense of the DNC and party discipline. The silence was even louder when I posted that Florida was sending mail to stop donations to the DNC. Really loud silence. The bloggers all know, they have been told.

I care about the DNC and standing up for it because there is a chance it could accomplish a major rebuilding in the states that have been neglected for years.

I often thought the primaries were too frontloaded. I knew they were not being done in the best way. I just never thought that party discipline being imposed would be used as a big joke by so many. They added two more diverse states in the pre-window, but a Florida senator called them rogue terrorist states.

I never really supposed they would matter here to me that much this time anyway. It matters because of the arrogance, and the lies Florida has told about the DNC and Dean.

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.

They could have kept their delegates if they had fought to keep the date at February 5th. They worked hand in hand with the GOP, and then lied to the DNC...not a good thing as the DNC rules committee had the floor transcripts.

Publicly, these campaigns say they hope Florida resolves its dispute with the DNC. Privately, they admit that if Florida has few or no delegates, they are unlikely to compete. That means that Hillary Clinton will face enormous expectations to win the state solidly. Unless she decides to scale down her activities in the state, too.

So, if the state party is only concerned about being seated at the convention, then the RBC's penalty doesn't matter. But if the state wants to play a role in determining the nominee, then the RBC’s penalty matters a lot. The two interests are in conflict."


It matters because I appear to be the only one online saying obeying the rules is important.

The committee set up by McAuliffe in a deal made with Carl Levin in 2003 made the rules, the 447 members including Florida approved the rules.

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.

The commission came into existence as part of a bargain between former DNC chairman Terence R. McAuliffe and Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.). Levin has long agitated against what he calls the privileged position of Iowa and New Hampshire, which hold the first caucus and first primary every four years. During the 2004 presidential campaign cycle, McAuliffe bought peace with Levin by promising to appoint a commission after the election if the senator would agree not to try to blow up the calendar for that year.


This blog at Huffington Post rather disturbs me. It is telling how all the candidates are getting around the rules. Again.....it infers the DNC's discipline is wrong yet advocates for all the others breaking rules. Something is wrong with that picture.

Florida's Shadow Campaign Features Spousal Support

Spouses of the Democratic candidates - with their better-halves signatories to a DNC-induced pledge not to campaign in the Sunshine State - are now the latest weapons in running a "shadow campaign."

Most of the candidates agree the DNC mandate that the state holds the primary after Feb. 5 is ridiculous. Insofar as fund-raising is involved no campaign rallies or headquarters are to be visible. And almost every Florida elected official calls the DNC action - a threat not to seat the state's delegates - ludicrous.


Say that to yourself again. Campaign message discipline admired...party discipline ludicrous. Wrap your head about that.

And, now, the latest surrogates to come to Florida are the spouses. From what we can learn, there is no objection to an Aspiring First Lady or First Gentleman to attend events, book signings, receptions, pass out bumper stickers and yard signs, to be interviewed by the Sunshine State media or to making news himself or herself.

Aspiring First Gentleman/ former President Bill Clinton has been especially visible in interviews and at receptions. He even made state-wide front pages in the media when he announced that Florida was getting a new solar power plant. The announcement was made by Clinton - with Republican Gov, Charlie Crist and Florida Power & Light 's chief executive Lew Hay at his side -- at the beginning of the Clinton Global Initiative Conference in New York Thursday, but its focus was clearly toward the Florida media who scooped up the announcement on its "clean energy program" with major stories and editorials. No presidential politics was mentioned, but the visibility for the Clinton name was as total as the promise to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.


It's all a big joke to everyone. I guess because I live here, and see the haughty attitudes, feel the anger toward us for speaking out against what Florida did.

It's all a big joke to most at Democratic forums as well.

Discipline good for candidates who continue to find ways around the rules.

Discipline bad for the party committee which provides the states with resources they did not have before.

:shrug:

Yes, I am angry, and both hubby and I are hurt badly by this.




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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Dean and the DNC are about
Edited on Mon Oct-01-07 11:52 PM by zidzi
The People..the Florida primaries and levin and mcauliff are about the power in the hands of corps and the money from them flowing into their hands.

Dean has another seemingly impossible task and I hope he has the support he needs when it comes to crunch time.

Keep the Faith..Never Give Up! Even on these dark ugly nights.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Zidzi...good video of him in Missouri this week with Lacy Clay, Emanuel Cleaver
http://www.pubdef.net/2007/10/howard-dean-at-missouri-walk-of-fame.html

Traveling in those supposed red states.

I do get angry more than most, because I live here and see the lack of honesty.

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thanks for the video, mad..
I'll check it out today when I'm more awake. You have a right to be angry all you want.. just know you're doing everything you can and what's out of your control will work itself out. Who the heck knows where we're headed. After 8 years of bushit I'd think the country would be bushwhacked out but there's evil(and I do mean evil) waiting in the wings to pick up where they left off. The only consolation I can see, so far, is after Jan 20, 2009 I won't have to see bushit's name plastered all over DU, buzzflash, or any other place and all the conotation that brings to mind.

Main thing..take good care of yourself! :hug:
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Do you even know who "levin" is? It's ridiculous to even name him in the same breath as
Terry McAullife. :puke:

And if the Florida primary move is all a big plot by Hillary Supporters, how come Terry McAullife, a key player in HRC election campaign ran the committee giving 4 tiny states the royal privilege of deciding the nominee?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You must not have read my OP very well.
Levin was going to make a move on the DNC's schedule in 2004, McAuliffe made a deal and stopped him with that deal.

Levin and Nelson then after they got our attention decided to file a regional primary bill.

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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Your OP makes no sense. Terry McAullife stood against Carl Levin
in these negotiations. Terry McAullife fought hard to maintain Iowa and NH's unearned privilege in those negotiations. He did so to benefit his boss: Hillary Clinton

So now you blame Carl Levin as a collaborator even though he's been fighting to change the system for YEARS. :silly:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. There is so much more to this.
You are being simplistic. There is a role for small states, and there are many sides to the story.

You really have taken an explanatory statement and twisted it.

I am too tired today to fight against spin.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. You call every point you can't refute "spin"
It should be *easy* to refute my "simplistic" points.

The fact stands, Terry McAullife, key Hillary Clinton staffer, is the architect of the "compromise" of allowing 4 micro-states to decide the Democratic nominee.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Common sense....
But since I am applying some common sense...I think it was a good thing to add two more diverse states while giving smaller states a voice still.

What Florida did is just wrong.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. "two more diverse states" =/= a fair and democratic process
Why not just decide the entire election based on the votes of Iowa, NH, Nv, and SC? After all, it would be so much cheaper to disenfranchise the rest of us in the general election! :sarcasm:

1 person = 1 vote. No matter how "more diverse" Nevada and South Carolina are, I *do not* cede my right to vote in either the primary or the general election to them. They DO NOT represent me.

In the end, Michigan and Florida will have their early primaries, and their delegates will be seated. Because in a democracy, it's the right thing to do.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. That is not the point of my post at all.
I think you know that. You go ahead with your bravado.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oddly enough, this appears to be only the 2nd post by this guy.
Edited on Tue Oct-02-07 10:56 AM by madfloridian
Here is the first, and it helps spread the propaganda that Florida was a victim of the GOP.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ron-levitt/to-campaign-or-not-to-cam_b_65747.html

"Our delegates will be seated," Florida Chair Karen Thurman said in defiance, pledging a convention fight if necessary. Two South Florida state senators - Steve Geller and Dave Aronberg - called for an all-out-battle with the DNC. A web site and p.r. campaign was immediately launched -- ''Make it count'' is the new rallying cry for the primary, echoing the contested 2000 election. Former US Sen. Bob Graham called the DNC action "frivilous."


They even got Bob Graham on board with them. Maybe Bob doesn't know the rules were voted on by Florida who knew what the changes were. Maybe he doesn't realize that if Florida proved they stood up to the GOP on the vote...they could have kept their delegates.

See what I mean? Get a respected Democrat to use the word "frivolous" against the DNC. Amazing how it is done.

And do it how Bush does it....make the pie higher, spread the lie further, pile it on with ever mentioning that Dean offered conciliatory gestures like almost a million for a caucus...money that was never offered to other states. Quite a gesture.

How did Florida ever get on the DNC'S bad boy (or girl) list?

The Republican-dominated Florida Legislature last session approved a Jan, 29, 2008, primary for both parties. This - according to the DNC - was in violation of party rules despite the fact more than 800,000 Democrats are expected to vote. The DNC told Florida Dem Chairman Thurman to have another vote "after Feb. 5" or the State would not be seated at the national convention in Denver.


The author never mentioned that the vote was http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459">almost unanimous...115 to 1

House Republicans and Democrats passed the earlier primary bill (HB 537) by a 115-1 vote - a challenge to the national parties that are wielding threats in an attempt to prevent a nationwide race for earlier and earlier primaries.


My voice is not enough to counter the Florida lies. Guess I will pull the covers over my head and tell myself that I must go along here to get along.





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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
6. In the end, this is all about MONEY
I live in Fort Myers, FLorida The main problem with having Florida so early in the process is that the media markets in the state are so damn expensive. Especially in the wintertime when all the snowbirds are here. By holding a primary so early, you force the candidates to spend a considerable amount of their war chest in the state twice. Once in the primary and if they're lucky again in the general. This argument, in reality, has little to do with voting rights or becoming a bigger part of the selection process. The national party is scared that all of the big states are going to do the same thing, and in the end the process becomes more about whether you can buy ad time in Miami than whether you actually build a good campaign.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. The candidates are using Florida to their advantage now
Sending spouses, not having to answer press, just getting money.

I think the lies told by Florida, the threats of the lawsuits, have done more to make me see what the Democratic Party is really about than anything else that has happened.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. And the current system ISN'T about money? Gimmeabreak!
It's about who will be paid off, not if there will be a pay-off in the first place.

Arguing that Iowa should go first because it is cheaper to buy their votes is a crappy argument!
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. I may not always agree with the Florida Democratic organization,
But this time I do.

I'm sick of the little early states choosing candidates before we get a say in the matter. You want to be fair to the small money guys? Fine, if there is enough support get public financing passed, but everyone in this country should be an equal say in the primaries.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Agree. Democracy means everybody gets a say. Not just anointed insiders. nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. I did not realize how much Nelson got from MoveOn...Mahoney also
I was surprised at the amount from Nelson. Mahoney said we did the military an injustice, which is just baloney.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2007/10/nelson-and-maho.html

"Politico reports that "44 congressional Democrats who voted to condemn MoveOn.org for its ad branding Army Gen. David Petraeus 'General Betray Us' ...accepted more than $3.9 million in contributions from the influential anti-war group and its members."

The 44 include Florida Sen. Bill Nelson, who has reportedly received $389,300 from Move.On.org and its members since 2002 and Rep. Tim Mahoney of Palm Beach Gardens, "whom MoveOn boasts of helping to the tune of $160,000 and 54,000 phone calls."

Republicans called it "the height of hypocrisy" for Democrats who took the dollars to repudiate the ad.

But Jessica Santillo, a spokeswoman for Mahoney, said the freshman lawmaker "supported the resolution partly because he thought the ad was a 'disservice to our military.' "

No, your vote was a disservice to your own party base.

Much like what is being done here about the primary. Truth is not important, spin is all that counts.
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