Sincere congratulations to Hillary on her 3rd quarter but she did pull a bait and switch

[wndycty]

Nothing illegal about it, and it was clever because it makes her impressive $27 million for the 3rd quarter even more impressive.

Does anyone remember this story from last week?

Democratic Rivals Play '08 Money Game
Camps Attempt to Alter Expectations in Last Week of Third Quarter
By JENNIFER PARKER

Sept. 25, 2007 —

It's the silly season of political fundraising where some of the '08 campaigns are attempting to set the bar extraordinarily high for their opponents before the campaigns disclose how much money they have truly raised in the third quarter.

In the last week before the third quarter fundraising draws to a close, the presidential campaign of Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., is busy lowering expectations for their fundraising haul -- and raising expectations for those of her chief Democratic rival -- Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill.

As the days of the fundraising quarter wind down, the spin machines at the campaigns are winding up.

An aide to Clinton's campaign tells ABC News that they expect to have raised between $17 and $20 million in the third quarter fundraising period between July 1 and Sept. 30, and suggested the campaign of Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., will raise over $30 million, thanks in large part to online donations -- -- even though they have no direct knowledge of what Obama will raise.
-snip-

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=3644382&page=1

[wyldwolf]

1. do you know the definition of "bait and switch?"

[wndycty]

4. In this particular case. . .

Its misleading the public, telling them to expect a certain result even though they knew the result would be much different. I doubt the extra 7-10 million dollars showed up in the last 6 days.

They knew they had impressive numbers, but purposely low balled their numbers so that when they announced $27 million it would be even more staggering than it would have already been.

There is absolutely nothing wrong about this, however it was a clever tactic.

Don't spin this as anything more than me noticing and acknowledging the strategy employed here. However if you want to keep this thread kicked today the same way you kicked my thread yesterday it will be very appreciated.

[wyldwolf]

7. I would never "spin" a dictionary definition. You clearly misused the word

[wndycty]

10. Bait and switch is not a word, its a phrase. . . LOL

:kick:

[wyldwolf]

13. and one that you clearly misused. LOL!

[wndycty]

18. You keep saying it was misused, maybe I should have just said DECEPTIVE. . .

. . .would that be better. Its definitely appropriate usage isn't it? Demonstrate how I misused "bait and switch" and if you are successful I will switch it to DECEPTIVE which I'm beginning to like a little more.

[flpoljunkie]

17. The word wndycty's looking for is "low balling"-- and it's not the first time for the Hillary camp

[wndycty]

20. I may switch the title to deceptive. . .if it will make the DU Clinton supporters happy

:kick:

[Tellurian]

22. How about...SURPRISE!

Hillary's campaign SURPRISES Obama campaign's bragadocio....

[wndycty]

23. Surprise? Do you really believe that when the Clinton camp leaked last week . . .

. . .they they expected Obama to out raise them by $10 million they didn't know they were closing in on $27 million when they were claiming $17-20 million?

[Tellurian]

30. My crystal ball is in the shop..

apparently yours is on steroids.. Better to take a conservative approach than hamstringing yourself by floating wild accusations you can hardly prove. Makes you look wild eyed, sounding out of control..

[Forkboy]

50. "I would never "spin" a dictionary definition."

:rofl:

Yesterday never even happened in your world? :crazy:

[BigDDem]

12. Clearly he does not!

He might want to pick a different cliche next time.

[wndycty]

15. So I'm being criticized of not using "bait and switch" properly but neither of you. . .

. . .have demonstrated how I used it improperly. If you are going to call me out, back it up.

[wyldwolf]

19. you were just called out. Post 17.

[wndycty]

21. I wouldn't call it being called out, I would call it help. . .

So you have yet to demonstrate how "bait and switch" was the wrong phrase to use. If you are saying its wrong back it up. You just can't come out and tell me its wrong without backing it up?

If you make your case I will gladly switch it to "deceptive."

[Tellurian]

25. How can a guesstimate be deceptive?.

when they are still counting donations $$$ on Monday morning.
This is Tuesday, right? eh, yup, it's Tuesday.

[wndycty]

26. You actually believe that they didn't keep a running total and see certain trends. . .

. . .if you really believe the $7 million just showed up the last week you are foolish.

[Tellurian]

29. How many National campaigns have you run in charge of collecting donations..

Guesstimates are the safest way to either underestimate of overestimate what a future total will be.

Contractors building houses use the same guesstimates spelled out as a cost/plus addendum when quoting costs.

would you be bitching and moaning if Hillary had raised only $10,000,000? Screaming she said she'd raise between $18 and $20m,
and using that as an empirical club proving she can't win in the GE because Obama out raised her in the 3rd quarter?

I think you'd be complaining no matter what she did.

[wndycty]

36. First of all I'm not bitching and moaning, as I stated in the OP sincere congratulations. . .

I have actually worked on more than a few campaigns in the capacity of spokesperson and I know that you always know how much money is coming and going. If you truly believe they didn't know. You are foolish.

[Tellurian]

38. National campaign are a bit bigger than local campaigns..

considering how many people are doing the collecting in all 50 states.

[wndycty]

39. Spin all you want. . .

With the exception of bundlers, most of the money is sent to one central location. Again just admit they held out, they knew what they were on target for.

You would be better off defending the fact that the mislead or low balled, trying to spin the fact that they didn't know is not going anywhere.

[Tellurian]

41. Well, you'll just have to prove it..

otherwise your just being...shall I say, WINDY!

[flpoljunkie]

2. Barack Obama has raised more money that can spent for the primary than Hillary--$2.3 million

Once again, the bottom line:

## In practical terms, there's little difference between $19M and $22M. Both Clinton and Obama will have enough money to run exactly the type of campaigns they want to. In fact, in total, Obama has raised more money for the primary than Clinton has... about $2.9M.

(Actually, it's $74.9 million primary dollars for Obama to Hillary's $72.6 million primary money according to the AP.)

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/clinton_to_drudge_connection_l.php

And, why is the Clinton campaign giving an exclusive to Drudge?

[Adelante]

5. What do you mean? "an exclusive to Drudge" nt

[flpoljunkie]

9. Marc Ambinder had a screen shot of Drudge's website which says it's an "Exclusive."

It wouldn't be the first time the Clinton camp has given Drudge exclusives in this campaign.

[wyldwolf]

14. It was on Hillaryhub before then.

[Adelante]

16. It wouldn't be the first time Drudge claimed an "Exclusive"

on something everybody else in the media has, too. I was just curious what you meant. Thanks.

[wndycty]

6. I'm not sure if Drudge got it exclusive, I got it via e-mail from the Clinton camp

:kick:

[flpoljunkie]

11. You think Drudge would lie, do you?

:sarcasm:

[Ethelk2044]

43. Good Point

[Kagemusha]

3. Does anyone know how much of that money is useable for the primary?

Obama raised more than 19 million, but 19 million is what's being reported because it's the number that's actually relevant, since no one assumes he'll win the nomination.

[Pirate Smile]

8. 22 million according to CNN.

[movonne]

24. I think it is more important to know where the money is coming

from than how much a candidate can get...I really think it is a crime that money is the only way you can win.

[flpoljunkie]

40. Without transferring one cent from any other campaign fund and with no money from federal lobbyists,

Obama campaign has raised $74.9 million primary race dollars.

[Pirate Smile]

27. Congrats to Hillary and her supporters.

I wish playing the expectations game didn't have the feel of misleading people. I guess that is part of the game. The only problem is that if you are uneasy about trusting Hillary and the people around her then it feeds into that instead of assuaging it.

[wndycty]

28. So you agree that this was a case of. . ."bait and switch," "misleading," 'deception" and/or

"low balling?"

[Froward69]

31. I agree too bad HRC

is willing to spin the story before it is necessary. Like Bushy boy... arent we tired of this sort of crap???

[Pirate Smile]

32. Yeah. It looks like there were misleading statements from the campaign fed to

the media to raise expectations for how much Obama would raise and lower them for Hillary. They are experts at playing the game. I just don't like the game when it seems like misleading the public.

[Casper]

34. Bait & Switch definition...

"In retail sales, a bait and switch is a form of fraud in which the customer is lured in by the advertising of a product or service at an unprofitably low price, only to discover that the advertised good is not available but that a substitute (typically at a higher price or profit) is. The goal of the bait-and-switch is to convince some buyers to purchase the substitute good as a means of avoiding disappointment over not getting the bait, or as a way to recover sunk costs expended to try to obtain the bait. It suggests that the seller will not show the original product or product advertised but instead will demonstrate a more expensive product."

[William769]

33. All I can say is this is laughable.

[Tellurian]

35. Imagine if Oprah hadn't given BO $3mil on her own?

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[flpoljunkie]

47. How silly! Imagine if we ignore Hil's big dollar fundraisers and lobbyists' contributions!

[Cameron27]

37. Just a big congratulations to Hillary and all her supporters.

That's an incredible amount of money, and lowballing numbers in politics is done all the time.

:toast:

[Ethelk2044]

42. She is still playing childish games. It shows who is the stronger leader.

[SaveElmer]

44. You mean did she play the media like a bass fiddle? Why yes she did...

Another example of her superior political skills...

[Debi]

45. Their fundraising for primary dollars aren't that much apart

Obama 3Q for the primary is $19 Million ($20 mil total)
Clinton 3Q for the primary is $22 Million ($27 mil total)

Whichever one doesn't win the nomination (or both) will be giving general election contributions back x(

[flpoljunkie]

46. One would think Hil would be outraising Obama by a lot with Bill and the Clinton machine behind her.

[Debi]

49. Well, I think it is and she is

but the same donors are maxing out (which is where the $5 Million difference between Primary and General dollars comes in).

I don't know that she is drawing in NEW donors and that is what she needs.

(Remember though that donors don't always equal voters or caucus attendees).

[flpoljunkie]

48. CNN's Bill Schneider reports that Obama has raised $75 million in primary funds to Hillary's $63 mil

Remember Hillary's transferred $10 million dollars from her Senate campaign account into her primary account. That's the reason why they are close in total money raised for their presidential campaigns.