Hillary Clinton adviser Mark Penn once fired by Al Gore

[Bluebear]

It's interesting reading what goes on behind the scenes, which us mere mortals are usually unable to glimpse! From "The Gurus: The professionals who manage the machinery of American politics." (Washington Post):


...It was a flippant response -- and the final straw for Gore, who had long been wary of Penn and concerned that his real loyalty was to Clinton and first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton. His senior advisers agreed, regarding Penn as arrogant and controlling, someone who pushed the boundaries of his job by dispensing strategic advice rather than simply interpreting data. Shortly after the meeting with Gore, Penn was fired. One of the party's most prominent pollsters sat out the presidential campaign, but he signed up that year with a familiar face making her inaugural run for office in Penn's native New York -- Hillary Clinton.

Eight years later, it is Clinton who is running for president, and Penn, 53, is her chief strategist. While not her campaign manager in name, Penn controls the main elements of her campaign, most important her attempt to define herself to an electorate seemingly ready for a Democratic president but possibly still suffering from Clinton fatigue.

In the four months since Clinton officially became a candidate, Penn has consolidated his power, according to advisers close to the campaign, taking increasing control of the operation. Armed with voluminous data that he collects through his private polling firm, Penn has become involved in virtually every move Clinton makes, with the result that the campaign reflects the chief strategist as much as the candidate.

If Clinton seems cautious, it may be because Penn has made caution a science, repeatedly testing issues to determine which ones are safe and widely agreed upon (he was part of the team that encouraged Clinton's husband to run on the issue of school uniforms in 1996). If Clinton sounds middle-of-the-road, it may be because Penn is a longtime pollster for the centrist Democratic Leadership Council whose clients have included Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.). If Clinton resembles a Washington insider with close ties to the party's biggest donors, it may be because her lead strategist is a wealthy chief executive who heads a giant public relations firm, where he personally hones Microsoft's image in Washington.

And if some opponents see Clinton as arrogant, her campaign a coronation rather than a grass-roots movement, it may be because of the numbers wizard guiding her campaign and the PowerPoint presentations he likes to give on the inevitability of his candidate. Yet Penn also has everything that Clinton would want in a senior consultant: undisputed brilliance and experience, according to even his enemies; clear opinions, with data to back them up; unwavering loyalty; and a relentless focus on the endgame: winning the general election. And Clinton clearly adores him. She describes Penn in her autobiography, "Living History," as brilliant, intense, shrewd and insightful.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/29/AR2007042901661.html

[kurth]

1. Sounds like another Karl Rove

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Shouldn't We Have Our Own Karl Rove

You don't bring a pocket knife to a street fight...

[kurth]

4. Not one who wants to maintain the status quo

under a different brand.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. No

But we need strategists that are as tough, smart, and ruthless as their strategists are... I favor the Chicago way of politics:


"You wanna know how you do it? Here's how, they pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way, and that's how you get Capone! Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do that?"

[crikkett]

32. 'Chicago politics' too bloody for my support.. I prefer Kucinich "strength through peace"

[sandyd921]

55. Sorry, but we need strategists from the DLC

just like we need a hole in the head!

[snowbear]

62. Ok Sandy, that is too funny!

~~~~

[sandyd921]

64. Hi Larissa!

Couldn't help myself! :hi:

[Colobo]

10. No. That's precisely what's wrong with politics and the country.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. You Don't Bring A Pea Shooter To A Knife Fight

I'm not one of these docile Democrats who wears a "Kick Me" sign on his behind...

[Colobo]

21. Politics is not a game or a sport.

If it was, then Republicans would be an example to follow. Instead, they have ruined the country.

[Bjorn Against]

13. No, Karl Rove was a criminal and a fraud

He harmed so many innocent people in his quest for absolute power, we do not want anyone even remotely representing him.

And remember that even if we look at it purely from a campaign standpoint, Karl Rove was not the genius he was made out to be. He took a man who had some of the highest approval ratings in history after 9/11 and turned him into the most hated pResident in American history. He took what looked like it could be a permanent Republican majority, and then watched as the Republicans crumbled rapidly to the point they may never recover.

We don't want anyone like him touching any of our campaigns.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. My Point Wasn't About His Acumen But About His Single Minded Focus On Winning

I hate to lose at anything... Opponents to me are people that need to be squashed, beaten, eviscerated, humiliated, embarrassed, and ultimately vanquished...

[Bjorn Against]

18. I understand your point, but no Karl Rove is going to do that for you effectively

In his time beating down Bush's opponents Karl Rove managed to beat down the approval ratings of Bush and the Republican Party as well.

If you want to eviscerate your opponents there are much better ways to do it than using the Karl Rove method. Remember the people you want to eviscerate are Republican politicians, most of them already have a ton of dirt on them. It should be easy to take them down without using Rovian tactics, and it will be much more effective.

We need to be tough, but we can not have anyone with even a small resemblance to Karl Rove anywhere near our campaigns.

[Colobo]

22. Karl Rove helped ruin his own party

Reps lost in 06 and don't stand a chance in 08 thanks to him and his ilk.

He's a loser in disguise.

[lumberjack_jeff]

63. What makes you think he's "our" Karl Rove? n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

70. Yes, but not to the extent that we push poll about John McCain's illegitimate black child

[mod mom]

3. PLS Al Gore deliver us from (DLC) evil. We've had it with corporatism and it's dragging

this country and the world down the drain!

[peacebird]

6. Penns client list includes Holy Joe LIEberman - Is THAT the type "democrat" we want?

Another good DLCer like LIEberman for the White House? A "Democrat" who voted FOR the war in Iraq, and FOR the Kyl/LIEberman bill?

Mark Penn is bad news all around, it's not only his firms ties to Blackwater.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Mark_Penn

Mark Penn is anti-environment and anti-consumer and anti-union. In short - he is a PRO-BUSINESS "centrist" NOT a Democrat.

[itsrobert]

7. This Lieberman?

[SaveElmer]

8. Was actually thinkin about this one...

U.S. Sen. Barack Obama rallied Connecticut Democrats at their annual dinner Thursday night, throwing his support behind mentor and Senate colleague Joe Lieberman.

Obama, an Illinois Democrat who is considered a rising star in the party, was the keynote speaker at the annual Jefferson Jackson Bailey Dinner.

Lieberman, Connecticut's junior senator, is under fire from some liberal Democrats for his support of the Iraq War. He was key in booking Obama, who routinely receives more than 200 speaking invitations each week.

Some at Thursday's dinner said that while they were pleased with Lieberman's success in bringing Obama to Connecticut, they still consider Lieberman uncomfortably tolerant of the Bush administration.

Obama wasted little time getting to that point, calling it the "elephant in the room" but praising Lieberman's intellect, character and qualifications.

"The fact of the matter is, I know some in the party have differences with Joe. I'm going to go ahead and say it," Obama told the 1,700-plus party members who gathered in a ballroom at the Connecticut Convention Center for the $175-per-head fundraiser.

"I am absolutely certain Connecticut is going to have the good sense to send Joe Lieberman back to the U.S. Senate so he can continue to serve on our behalf," he said.

[peacebird]

9. exactly so....

Mark Penn has his PR machine in full swing for sHillary. I pray the voting machines are not part of his plan, tho since he teamed to form 360 Advantage with the key players from bush's election team - who knows?

[calteacherguy]

39. WE AREN'T VOTING FOR MARK PENN THIS IS A NON-ISSUE.

Geez

[hedgehog]

43. You are indeed voting for Mark Penn if he is giving policy advice.

It's one thing to tell the candidate what people think of his or her policy on Iraq. it's another to tell the candidate what the policy on Iraq should be.

[KaptBunnyPants]

47. Yes you are. Politics is all about alliances.

As we say in Texas, you dance with the horse what brung you. If Hillary wins, it will be the victory for the center right, and that will be who she serves.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. If Hillary wins, is it going to be like this all the time where we have to

monitor every decision to keep her core group honest?

[wyldwolf]

14. LOL! Monitor? And when she does something that hurts your tender feelings?

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. "Eternal Vigilance, is the price of (Democracy.)"

Running around blasting anyone who gets in your way of running good PR for Hillary, is not where the real game is played. Making sure she is not bought by special interest, is important.

Now, what did you degree in that you're so sure you have this all figured out?

[wyldwolf]

41. I guess we're all lucky to have a woman like you protecting us. (snicker)

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. And don't you forget it. (butterfinger)

[Jim Sagle]

61. Mark Penn, is that you?

[Forkboy]

71. Nah...Penn has more integrity.

[Jim Sagle]

73. That's brutal.

:thumbsup:

[populistdriven]

15. yes, if you don't want:

DMCA III
CALEA III
NAFTA III
China MFN III

(* already gave us v.2 of the above)

[The Backlash Cometh]

20. Exactly. Anyone who can talk specifics, knows the real score.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

23. Notice how the Clinton supporters NEVER address those things?

They just make evasive comments attacking you.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

25. I've heard that. Where does one get a "netroots" job anyway?

How well does it pay? ;)

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. Not sure. I think it's one of those things that blonde waitresses who work in diners,

have to wear to hide their brown roots?

So it can't pay that much.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. Ba dap ching! Good one.

Seriously though, I spend enough time blog surfing. I oughtta get paid for it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. I wonder how much they'll pay us to stir up trouble on the pro-Hillary

blogs. Any good ones?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. I would guess the only one is on her website

Other than that I haven't seen any entire blogs that tilt pro-Clinton. And on liberal sites like Kos and DU, there are more than enough Clinton critics. So I'd think they'd want to put the hired bloggers in places like Salon or the Times and WaPo discussion boards, where the crowd is more politically diverse. That's where you'd have the most effect.

I'm just sayin', Obama campaign, I'm available! :hi:

[The Backlash Cometh]

36. If she would only attack right-wingeres in Congress, with the same zeal

her minions attack progressives...

[populistdriven]

37. Exactly! Now that would be a candidate I could contribute my energy to! But, it takes a village...

to elect a person who promises all things to all people.

[flyarm]

59. they are on aol messsge boards and yahoo message boards as well

wow i feel daily like we are now on the aol message boards with *hbots..propagating the propaganda..

enough..i don't even like to post anymore..it is constant attacks by these people.

pretty tight operation going on ..

fly

[cascadiance]

17. According to this Democracy Now piece, Penn was brought to the Clinton camp by Dick Morris!

Basically Democracy Now was talking to Ari Berman of the Nation, which did a "Hillary Inc." expose on her campaign back in March:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/31/1412212

It sounds like in addition to being seeded by the now infamous Dick Morris into the Clinton camp, he's been doing things like working for Entergy as one of his clients, the firm that owns the controversial nuclear power plant in New York. Here's some interesting quotes from the interview:

Thursday, May 31st, 2007
The Nation: Clinton Campaign Strategists Closely Tied to Union Busters, GOP Operatives, Conservative Media

...

Among other things, the company helps firms fight unionization efforts. Up until March, the labor section of Burson-Marstellar's website read: "Companies cannot be caught unprepared by Organized Labor's coordinated campaigns."

Mark Penn's list of previous and current clients reads like a who's who of Corporate America: Texaco, Eli Lilly, Microsoft, Proctor and Gamble, Monsanto.

...

Ari Berman:
As you mentioned, her chief strategist, Mark Penn, not only is a major pollster, which means he polls for all sorts of industries, like the pharmaceutical industry and the oil industry, which don't necessarily see eye to eye with the Democratic Party, but he also is in a very strange position of running a huge, very Republican-friendly PR firm, Burson-Marstellar, which puts him at odds with many of Senator Clinton's public statements on organized labor, for example. And then, there’s also another very big lobbying firm, the Glover Park Group that’s cozied up to Rupert Murdoch and a whole other host of people in the pharmaceutical industry again. And that’s all Clintonites, including a number of people that are now essentially running Hillary’s campaign, including her spokesman Howard Wolfson.

...

Well, absolutely. I mean, Indian Point is located just outside of New York City. A lot of people want it to be shut down for the obvious safety hazard of having a huge nuclear power plant right outside Manhattan, and it’s failed a lot of safety ratings, and environmentalists have been trying to shut it down for years, in fact. And, you know, this is an example of when Mark Penn's work sort of comes on Hillary's terrain, because Entergy actually hired -- which owns Indian Point -- actually hired Mark Penn's firm to do a huge ad campaign for them after 9/11, talking about how safe it is. Now the ad campaign centers around how Entergy and Indian Point helps fight global warming, because it’s nuclear energy. And it won the PRWeek’s actually -- you know, Ad Campaign of the Year a few years ago. And Mark Penn’s polling firm polls for the Nuclear Energy Institute. There’s a whole lot of overlap there. And one of the main things that they’re saying is that now if you close Indian Point, it will cost low-income and minority jobs. Dirty power plants will go up in, you know, minority areas, sort of the same arguments that Glover Park made on behalf of Murdoch. And I think that’s scared a lot of lawmakers. And while Spitzer, Eliot Spitzer, and a number of Democratic lawmakers have called for Indian Point to shut down, Hillary has called for an independent safety assessment, but hasn’t called on the plant to be closed.

[Bluebear]

28. Beware of Greeks bearing gifts!

[geek tragedy]

27. Bush's Third Term. eom

[LeFleur1]

31. Mistake

Did I mistakenly click on a right wing nutcake board?

I thought Democrats could discuss their differences with facts. The twisting of truths in support of candidates seems so "Right Wing Crazy".

Are there a bunch of trolls on here spreading sh**?

[hedgehog]

35. Read the article, then decide what you think.

I'm bothered that someone who thought Begin was good for Isreal is guiding Hillary's policy positions.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tellurian]

33. Wondering if Gore regrets listening to Lieberman's advise..Like..

1. Pick me for your VP.

2. Distance yourself from Clinton.

3. Don't question the SCOTUS decision if it's Bush.

4. Don't encourage Civil Disobedience if you lose the Court's decision.

5."Their blood will be in the streets and on your hands."

[calteacherguy]

38. So? Other campaigns don't have campaign managers? What's the big deal?

This is how all campaigns work.

[Colobo]

42. Do you like Karl Rove? After all, he was just a campaign manager and

that's how all campaigns work.

[LeFleur1]

45. Like Hillary would Need a Karl Rove

First of all, Karl Rove is one of a kind. Evil in every way.

Secondly, Hillary is not brain dead. She does not need a Karl Rove. She listens, then makes up her own mind. Whether you admire her or hate her guts, you have to admit she's her own woman when it comes to decisions, so cut the comparison of her 'advisors' to the Karl Rove crap. It's Right Wingian.

[Mojorabbit]

48. Don't even accuse anyone

of "right wingian" because they have concerns. Do you know her personally to be able to say she is her own woman in making decisions? That she doesn't listen to her advisor and take his advice. Why have one if you are not going to listen to him.

[Bluebear]

54. 'you have to admit she's her own woman when it comes to decisions'

No, as a matter of fact, I DON'T know that for certain, and I do not know how much sway her "top adviser" Penn holds in her policies.

[Tom Joad]

68. right, she will not be able to plead out during any future criminal hearings

for support of international crimes against humanity.

I doubt that Bush could either, but at least a good lawyer could make the case he was not aware of what was happening.

[killbotfactory]

49. Are the other campaign managers union busters?

[Forkboy]

51. This is bothering you, obviously.

Good.

[Bluebear]

56. 'Good.'

:)

[Bluebear]

53. Some of us are still naive enough to have ideals.

[hisownpetard]

46. self-delete/

[AtomicKitten]

50. Good for Al Gore.

:thumbsup:

[Forkboy]

52. That's because Gore has ideals, and Hillary just wants the position.

[nolabels]

65. Being crass, succinct and truthful simultaneously should not be allowed

Who said dictionaries do not have consequences :shrug:

[calteacherguy]

57. Sounds like he's a big part of the success of her campaign. nt

[Bluebear]

58. And apparently that is all that matters to you!

[illinoisprogressive]

60. Blackwater Penn used to be a protege of Dick Morris.

Both republicans, who find a kindred spirit in the republican lite Hillary.
All of who are bad for the party

[nolabels]

66. The more you study about Hillary the more you realize how much .............

she is really just Corporation DLC in sheep's clothing

[Tom Joad]

69. hmmm, i never noticed the sheep's clothing.

[Forkboy]

72. Exactly...she's not hiding a thing.

[Tom Joad]

67. the clinton version of Karl Rove?