This is hard for me to say, but Biden deserves the nomination.

[rucky]

It's hard to say because I am a longtime Kucinich supporter. I still support Kucinich and his role in this primary process. I will still contribute to his campaign. But I have to throw my support to Biden. Biden has recently - and quite simply - outshined all of the other candidates. He deserves to win. Here's my thinking:

1) Appeal. He's a bit cartoonish (still likable) for my personal taste, but with his clear communication and conversational speaking style, he can appeal to a wide range of voters. I think he has the best chance of swinging Indys and GOP-ers who are soured on Iraq.

2) Innovation. He can think outside the box, and his plan on Iraq - even though it is not my preferred option - is well-thought out, and a viable alternative to "stay in or get out".

3) Results. Other candidates have plans for Iraq. And honestly I thought we'd have to wait another year to see anyone even try to enact any of them. Biden's plan is a go. He's circumvented all of the hurdles that these other plans would maybe in the future have to face. As deadlocked and bitter everyone is on Iraq, Biden transcended this and - out of nowhere - pushed through a plan that is acceptable and doable. The plan may not be ideal, but immediate action trumps the best laid plans. This is really what did it for me.

4) His Pet Issue: Public financing of elections. The writing is on the wall: The progressives will not gain any power until there is public financing. Even though Biden has the "insider" status from his long stint in the Senate (and the skeletons that go with such a record), if he can push though Public Financing, it will pave the way for future Progressive candidates, and really hit the Corpotocracy where they have the most influence.

Biden is effective. He's one of the good guys. He's sincere. And he can win.

I know about his past record, and you can mention that, but he also deserves credit for his accomplishments.

[mrigirl]

1. Good for you Rucky!

I'm glad that you're seriously taking Biden under consideration. Hopefully others who support Kucinich and perhaps Richarson and Dodd will follow your lead. It is my hope that other Democrats will start to see what you've seen in Biden as it gets closer to election time.

[Froward69]

48. Welcome aboard!!

:toast: :party: :grouphug: :pals:

[mrigirl]

85. Thank You!

It's nice to have so many people here on DU that support Biden. I don't feel all alone anymore!

[ginchinchili]

89. I think Biden would be the best choice for the country AND the Party

You're definitely not alone, mrigirl. The numbers are growing.

If Joe Biden won the nomination he would, as rucky points out, have the support of independents and many moderate Republicans. I'm confident he'd win large in a general election and have a very positive effect on the popularity of the Democratic Party for years to come. There are Democratic candidates who would probably hurt Democrats in local and state elections, and could be paving the way for a premature Republican Party rebound. We don't want that. Elect a Democrat who is likable, pragmatic, and effective like Biden and it would mean longterm Democratic Party domination. This is not an issue to be taken lightly.

[ginchinchili]

128. WOW! ALL THIS SUPPORT FOR BIDEN. WHAT HE NEEDS NOW IS $$$$$$$

It's imperative for those wanting to give Sen. Biden a serious shot at the nomination to contribute something to his campaign. He's hurting for cash. It's a damn shame that none of these big money people are stepping up and helping the candidate who could do the most to help America. Joe can get things done. He's proven that more than any other candidate running. It's almost as if he's too much of a regular Joe to catch our attention and to attract the big money people like Spielberg, Oprah, or Soros, yet that's one of his most appealing characteristics; he's real.

[ginchinchili]

129. I just gave $50.00 to the good Senator's campaign

I hope others will follow suit. I don't have much money, but this is imperative.

[nickinSTL]

100. I like Biden as well...

I'm not committing to voting for him in the primary, at least not at this point - but things can change.

AND, I'd have no problem voting for him in the general...unlike certain other candidates, who would force me to vote (again) for the lesser of two evils.

[PatSeg]

101. I really don't want to vote just "against" republicans

I want to really vote for the person I think is the best choice. I supported John Kerry in the last election and think he would have been a good president, but even then Joe Biden would have been my first choice if he were running.

[nickinSTL]

114. "I really don't want to vote just "against" republicans"

No, neither do I. If the MSM-anointed front-runner(s) get the nom, that's likely to be what I'll be doing in Nov. If Biden got it, that wouldn't be an issue.

To be fair, that hasn't been the case for me in the last 2 presidential elections (though Lieberman made me a bit uncomfortable). It's been more having poor candidates to vote for in Senate elections in MO. Now I'm in IL, I'm happy with my Dem Sens - Durbin and Obama is a fine set of Sens, IMO. (esp. considering my last 8 years in MO)

[PatSeg]

120. I'm originally from Illinois

and I have to say they have a couple of great senators. I absolutely love Durbin. Obama is still pretty new so I haven't formed any firm opinions of him as a senator or a presidential candidate.

[meg]

2. If by derserves

you mean the way he disrespected Anita Hill (and by extension all women) and let Clarence Thomas walk, then sure.

[mrigirl]

4. Biden wrote the Violence Against Women Act for our protection!

And he voted AGAINST Clarence Thomas in the final vote. He had to be hard on Anita Hill during the trial- look at what she was accusing. That was huge. There was only one Democrat who voted for Thomas and it wasn't Biden.
Biden has done alot for women- he's also pro-choice which allows us our freedom of choice. I can't believe with all the bills Biden has passed for women and our safety that you could say such a thing.

[suziedemocrat]

26. Rape and sexual harassment, like all crimes, needs to be proven.

You can't have a "Salem Witch Trial" mentality, where a person is presumed guilty. Usually, if the case is basically "her word against his", the only way to determine guilt is by examining the accuser as well as the accused.

[PatSeg]

29. Good point

There was no proof and it was turning the hearing into a media circus. To this day, I do not know who to believe, but allegations without proof does not contribute to the process. I think Hill was used for political reasons and that is unacceptable regardless of which party is doing it.

[rucky]

7. It is my understanding that he voted "No" on Thomas.

and grilled both parties equally.

[Debi]

18. Biden equaled exactly one vote and his vote was NO on Thomas

Blame the Senators who voted for him, not those who voted against him... http://people.virginia.edu/~ybf2u/Thomas-Hill/vote.html (The 11 Democrats who voted for him!)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. A Positive Post For A Change.

eom

[rucky]

13. A positive feeling for a change...

that we can actually make progress without selling out.

[CrispyQ]

5. He's got my vote, too.

I've been very impressed with him. He's not perfect, but none of them are.

Cartoonish -- ha! That made me smile cuz I think he looks sort of like Max Headroom. ;)

[pinto]

6. I've given him a second and third look. If my primary choice

withdraws in January - which may be a possibility - I'm apt to back him through the rest of the primaries. He'd make a fine president, imo.

(LOL. Not a very decisive POV, but I favor a large field for as long as possible. Good for the Democrats overall.)

:kick:

[monmouth]

8. I like the pace his campaign is taking, every day another positive

step, one day at a time....Go Joe!!

[rucky]

10. I expect campaign politics to be about ideas...

And I've been examining ideas, concepts, plans, and other intangibles. I never expected one of these ideas to actually be put into action right smack in the middle of the campaign process.

This isn't just a step - it's a paradigm shift. Now everything else is just talk.

[jillan]

41. He really took a big risk by doing that too. He has run his whole

campaign on his plan for Iraq. The Senate could have embarrassed him, but instead he got the first piece of legislation passed on Iraq by 75 votes. Even tho his plan was watered down, he never backed away from his principles. Now he is dealing with the Bushbots in Iraq that have critized his plan, and working with the Iraqi leaders that support his ideas.

He is not afraid to risk everything for what he believes in. I will take a candidate like that over someone that plays it safe, anyday. Even when I don't agree with him. I always know who he is and what he believes in. And that matters more to me than a candidate that tells me what I want to hear.

Thanks for this thread :)

[terip64]

9. My husband has liked Biden all along. It could happen. I'd be ok with it. I'm hanging in for Gore.nt

[gateley]

57. Good for your husband and good for you! Biden and Gore are both exceptional people! nt

[CCfromNY]

11. Biden my choice as well, unfortunately

It's a shame that Biden can't get anywhere. He's the smartest, most knowledgeable candidate in the group. That we're likely to get Hillary instead of him is tragic. A ticket with Biden at the top with someone like Gov. Strickland of Ohio as VP would be all but insurmountable for the hapless Republicans.

[rucky]

12. Hey, Strickland just got here!

We'd like to keep him for awhile. If we're going to pull a governor, how about Schweitzer or Richardson?

[CCfromNY]

30. because

we want to lock up Ohio but good.

[rucky]

36. Good call

just me being selfish. after Taft and Blackwell.

[Debi]

19. Welcome to DU CC!

:hi:

[CCfromNY]

31. howdy

Now my conservative nemeses won't have to falsely accuse me of being an infamous DU'er lol

[PatSeg]

32. We are "infamous"?

That is so cool!

[gateley]

58. Hi, CC! Don't despair - the support for Biden is growing. Have faith that the

truth will out!

Glad you're here! :hi:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

14. Agreed. America would really warm up to Joe B.

[Colobo]

15. Biden is very articulate and clean.

[rucky]

17. I know, I know.

He can really say some stupid shit sometimes. For me, the Senate support for his Iraq plan trumps everything. For him to pull that off, how and when he did, shows effective leadership. Campaign strategy-wise, it makes every other Iraq plan just talk. He now owns the most important issue.

[PatSeg]

21. Everyone says "stupid shit" now and then

It isn't what they say, but how the media plays it. Instead of looking at substantial issues, the media often targets the superficial, like the so-call "Dean scream" and Hillary "cackle".

[Debi]

20. And he'll wear an American flay pin on his lapel

:eyes:

C'mon Katzenkavalier, you're better than that. Post positive comments about your candidate rather than negative comments about candidates other than the one you support.

[Colobo]

22. I've been both supportive and critical of Biden, and will continue to do so.

Still, I never liked that comment of his.

[PatSeg]

27. Biden clarified his statement and apologized for any

misunderstanding - by "clean", he meant a fresh, new face (paraphrasing here), someone not tainted by politics. When Biden first served in the senate, he cited his primary reason for running was civil rights. He has a long history as a civil rights advocate and the media tried to discount 34 years of service by replaying one sentence over and over again.

[CCfromNY]

33. What he said...

...and what the rightwing propaganda machine spun it into were 2 completely different things, but you know, that's what they do.

The people who tried to turn it into the crime of the century are people who aren't voting Dem anyway.

[PatSeg]

37. Just another distraction

to focus on someone and something else besides their own incompetence and corruption. General Petraeus reports to congress about the Iraq war and the republicans try to switch the focus to a Moveon.org ad. They've been using the same old tired tricks for years. If nothing else, they are predictable.

[CCfromNY]

79. That's why,

I hope, the appearance that America has finally had it with the right, specifically, and Republicans, in general, is not an illusion.

[Colobo]

50. Biden has moved up to my third choice, and

the Obama/Biden ticket is a winner in my book.

[gateley]

61. I can see the two of them complimenting each other very well, although you

know I think Biden should be in the top spot. I think Joe's experience would be invaluable and crucial at a time like this. I really do like the idea of the two of them as a team.

[gateley]

59. I think his intent was pure and he really did mean "fresh and new' as he

tried to explain later. In no way do I think it was an indication of a racial attitude -- otherwise I wouldn't be a Biden believer.

[PatSeg]

73. The remark would have gone unnoticed if the media hadn't

been all over it.

[jillan]

39. It's a good thing too - his wife doesn't like stinky people in the morning.

;)

[Froward69]

49. yes he is,

Thank you for the complement!:pals:

[TheDoorbellRang]

74. .

:rofl:

[paulk]

16. he deserves to be in the first tier, at least

and who knows what will happen in Iowa.

[smalll]

56. Maybe he could work his way up to second first -- there's three tiers now -

Tier one: Hillary. Tier two: Obama and Edwards. Tier Three: Richardson, Biden, Dodd, Kucinich, Gravel.

[paulk]

70. I'm sure that Hillary herself

is not indulging in that sort of overconfidence...

[smalll]

88. You're right - I'm sure she's not -

that's just another reason why she's inevitable.

[suziedemocrat]

23. I'm thinking that too. Is there some hidden controversy that is keeping him out of the media?

He consistently sounds the most knowledgeable and worthy. Why doesn't he get more press?

[rucky]

25. He got more press before he was a candidate.

beats me. another frustrating mystery.

[PatSeg]

28. Yes, it is

Somehow he just isn't newsworthy by the media's standards. His Iraq resolution was a major accomplishment in an ineffective senate, but the focus turned to the Iran resolution of the same day, which was more controversial.

[CCfromNY]

34. because

the media is about stories that sell.

[rucky]

35. apparently problems sell better than solutions. n/t

[PatSeg]

38. Why sell the positives, when the negatives

are more appealing? When all else fails, switch to Brittany or Paris.

[gateley]

60. $$$$$$$ It's always the money. Always. nt

[PatSeg]

78. And if our democracy is to survive

that has to end and end soon, before we become a country "of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations".

[PatSeg]

24. Public financing

Biden has more credibility on this issue than the front runners who are raking in tons of cash. It is easy for Hillary to advocate public financing, but that didn't stop her from throwing a "meet and greet" fundraiser for lobbyists and congressmen/women.

Obviously Biden isn't a major fundraiser in the race, but he's been one busy guy in the senate while campaigning 24/7. Though he is not getting a lot of exposure as a candidate, he is getting press for actually doing his job and doing it well.

[jillan]

44. I am actually glad that he is not a top fundraiser.

I have seen where some of the funds have come from in the campaigns of the top frontrunners, and I am proud of Biden.

With Biden, it's about laying one brick at a time. He will get there.

[PatSeg]

55. Actions speak louder than words

and he has been a very busy guy backing up his words in the senate, where he is one of the few who can get bi-partisan support.

[gateley]

62. Good point - the dearth of big dollar contributions may be an indication that

Big Business doesn't believe he can be manipulated or bought.! Never thought of that. Is it possible? My esteem for him has soared even higher! :headbang:

[PatSeg]

63. After 34 years, I think they know not to court Biden for favors.

[cleveramerican]

40. Biden seems re-born.

With a spring in his step and a sparkle in his eye, he campaigns with sense of purpose that is hugely appealing. The others should watch and learn, and I'm sure they are.

[Inuca]

42. Have you seen him live?

Just curious...

[cleveramerican]

45. He was on fire in Nashua a few weeks ago

and he's been really good on TV recently.
Its game day and you can tell he showed up with his game face on.

The phrase I keep coming back to is "Sense of Purpose". He's got it, more than the others at this moment in time.

[jillan]

47. I was impressed that he stayed at a campaign event this past week for 3 hours just to make sure he

answered everyone's questions who had one.

Amazing!

[PatSeg]

52. This has happened before too

His aides are always trying to get him out of these events, but he stays and answers questions. He really knows how to connect with real people.

[PatSeg]

51. "Sense of Purpose"

That sums it up well. He has an unwavering focus and won't back down. His stand is based on years of experience.

[gateley]

64. I've not seen him live but have seen numerous clips at little coffee shop

gatherings of supporters and I feel he's truly "one of us". There was post (yesterday?) where an article reported he stayed for 3 hours after the allotted time talking to the people and answering questions, even though his staff was trying to get him to leave.

His sincerity and passion and NATURALNESS comes across the screen so well, I imagine it would be a wonderful, fulfilling experience seeing him in person, and actually getting the opportunity to talk one on one.

[PatSeg]

77. He has some of the charm that Bill Clinton had

but he is much more direct and blatantly honest in his answers.

[gateley]

81. Well put! nt

[PatSeg]

43. Last week he seemed to be Everywhere!

I was trying to imagine how one person could be all over the map in such a short period of time. His "deeds" on the senate floor have matched his "words" on the campaign trail.

[ellacott]

46. He's the best candidate

He can go toe to toe with any Republican and make them look foolish. I was hoping he would have run in 2004.

He is the one who truly has the most experience.

[PatSeg]

53. He passes my "BS test" every time

I've listened to these politicians for so long that my mind perceives BS and double talk very quickly. When Biden talks, I listen and learn.

[gateley]

66. More than any other candidate - and I like them all - I'd love to see him debate

with ANYBODY the R's throw his way. They wouldn't stand a chance.

[PatSeg]

72. Joe vs Rudy!

Priceless! As one DU'er said, I'd pay to see that debate.

[Blue_In_AK]

54. I prefer Biden to either Sen. Clinton or Sen. Obama

I'm shocked about the way I feel myself. :)

[gateley]

67. Ha! When I first started paying attention I didn't even consider Biden as a viable

option. Then, little by little.... to the point where I'm convinced he's the best person we have to help this country during this time. And he's the kind of person - trustworthy, no BS - I feel we need at the helm after the Bushco nightmare.

[PatSeg]

69. He was the one I wanted, but thought it was a hopeless cause

Then one day I decided that "we" can make the difference. I'll tell you, it was discouraging seeing so few people supporting him, but I figured there had to be others like me AND there were!

[Zandor]

65. You've joined that 3% throng of his supporters

Good luck with that.

[gateley]

68. Thanks - we're very optimistic and appreciate your support! nt

[PatSeg]

71. Thanks, though I don't think "luck" will have anything to do with it

I'm not going to hitch my wagon to a "winner" just because he/she is a winner. Previous presidential elections have seen lower tiered candidates move forward from obscurity. It can happen again.

[rucky]

75. I've inched up!

If i cared about poll numbers at this point, you think I would've switched at all?

[PatSeg]

76. If we all cared about polls,

we'd all be supporting Hillary. I'm looking to the best choice, not the most popular.

[Think82]

80. This is great! A convert!

Welcome aboard! With a few more brave posts like these, I have a feeling there are going to be more Biden supporters popping up than new Starbucks.

How about those videos from the SC interview! These informal conversations are so good at bringing out Biden's honest style.

[rucky]

82. I don't think I know about the SC interview...

could you point me in the right direction?

[Think82]

83. the ones up on DU right now.

[gateley]

117. They're also posted in the Biden Support Group - or the links are. Check them out. nt

[cascadiance]

84. I'm still concerned about his ties to the DLC and to the credit card companies, etc.

It's hard to explain his vote on the bankruptcy bill otherwise.

I do also appreciate his stances on public campaign financing. I hope he's serious about that. Part of me wonders though, that given he's not close to being in contention of the top 3 in getting nominated, if this might be part of the DLC to siphon off votes for people wanting public campaign financing (like me who thinks it is the number one issue) to go to him instead of Edwards. I think they know that the public campaign financing votes are not going to Hillary.

It is interesting that even Obama is also cosponsoring the senate public campaign financing bill too, and yet he doesn't champion it a lot in his campaign speeches. i wonder why. If I were in his shoes and were serious about it, i would.

Then again, it is hard, given the current financing setup to know how serious a problem it is for candidates, even if they truly believe in this issue, to take a stand on it, given that the status quo will punish them for it in terms of campaign financing.

It is really hard to read who are the real champions and shysters for this issue at a federal level. That is why I like some folks like Kucinich more who try to be more honest about their stances and damn the torpedoes while doing it. Then I feel I can trust him more on issues like these.

[Catchawave]

86. I could easily support, donate and work for a Biden nomination too.

Have always liked Joe.

[ms liberty]

87. Biden is at the top of my list too...

I'm still waiting and hoping for Al Gore, but if he doesn't come in Biden would do nicely. He has a lot of experience in the necessary areas, he's well versed in constitutional law and foreign relations, and he's actually solidly left of center on most issues. He comes across as sensible, rational, and likeable.

[fujiyama]

90. I would have considered him were it not for his support for the bankruptcy bill

I know he's from Delaware and the credit card corporations and banks are major contributors, but I'm uneasy about the close relationship with them.

But I'll say this. I dislike him less now than I did a few months ago. I think he's shown more substance than several other candidates, especially in the area of foreign policy.

So while I won't vote for him in the primaries, I'd be more enthusiastic voting for him in the general election than I would have in the past, and I'd definitely prefer him over Hillary.

[Hippo_Tron]

91. 20 years ago maybe

But since then Biden has assumed the role of career senator. Career senators generally don't make it to the presidency. Even John Kerry was pushing it with three terms under his belt in 2004. But by comparison, Biden was in the senate while Kerry was in law school.

[mmonk]

92. Biden is fine but I prefer another candidate. I feel others deserve

it as well. I like Richardson, Kucinich, Dodd, and Biden. Each brings change + solutions. Each isn't politics as usual. Each do something different than current political paths and each bring action for a change in course.

[mmonk]

93. I find it kind of funny that early on, I proposed a Biden group

and could generate no interest here at DU. Now he is the flavor du jour.

[Rene]

94. Not in a million years. He's totally beholden to the banking industry that's so imbedded in Deawar

and I want to hear a public apology for the way he treated Anita Hill during the Thomas hearings.

[Zhade]

95. He's signed PNAC statements and fucked the poor over for his #1 campaign donor MBNA.

Pass.

[jillan]

98. Are you crazy? - Biden never signed PNAC statements.

Here is a complete list of all the signers and contributors, and Biden's name is nowhere.

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/charts/pnac-chart.php

[PatSeg]

102. Boy you're on the ball

Best to nip that sort of thing really quickly.

[jillan]

103. This is the biggest bunch of crap I have seen yet.

People are definitely over-reaching here.

[PatSeg]

118. Politics - American Style

People can say anything, any time, and in any way, and there are the gullible ones who will buy it.

[lyonn]

115. Thanks pirhana for this link

Had he been a signatory that would have depressed me no end.

Where would that kinda talk come from? Poor Biden isn't threatening any of the candidates, YET! ha

[Tejanocrat]

96. Biden was the top recipient of campaign cash from the Credit Card industry, and he staunchly

supported the pro-Credit Card industry/anti-consumer bankruptcy bill.

That is disqualifying in my view so I needn't even go into my objections to his imperialist Iraq plans.

[jillan]

97. Wrong - Biden has received 33k in donations from CC companies- compared to Hillary

who received ovr 160k.

About the bankruptcy bill - Edwards and Clinton both signed the first one.

[PatSeg]

99. Anyone looking for oodles of corporate cash

in Joe Biden's coffers is wasting their time.

[Tejanocrat]

104. You are mistaken.

THE BANKRUPTCY BILLS PASSED IN 2005 AND VETOED IN 2000

Like nearly all legislation supported by the Bush administration, there is keen irony in the title of the Bankruptcy "Abuse" Prevention and Consumer "Protection" Act of 2005.

Make no mistake, the Act was passed to address a completely phony "crisis" of "bankruptcy abuse" (the only "bankruptcy crisis" was the crisis of increasing bankruptcies sought by good tax-paying citizens whose financial collapse was precipitated by exploding health care costs and by single parents who ex-spouses had reneged on their child support obligations). Likewise, this Act did nothing to "protect" consumers; it was a pure giveaway to the Credit Card industry at the expense of the most vulnerable American consumers (disproportionately affecting racial minorities at five times the rate of other Americans).

All the Republicans in the Senate voted for this hideous law, and they were joined by 18 Democrats (Baucus, Bayh, Biden, Bingaman, Byrd, Carper, Conrad, Inouye, Johnson, Kohl, Landrieu, Lincoln, Nelson, Nelson, Pryor, Reid, Salazar, and Stabenow).

But that's not the worst of it. There were numerous amendments to the law proposed by Democrats to make the bill less anti-consumer, and Biden voted against most of them.

Biden rejected Kennedy's amendment to preserve the old bankruptcy protections for people who had been bankrupted by medical expenses.

Biden rejected Akaka's amendment to require the Credit Card industry to fuller disclosure of the risks of bankruptcy from overextended credit.

Biden rejected Durbin's amendment to preserve the old bankruptcy protections for people serving in the military.

Biden rejected Fiengold's amendment to protect the homes of the elderly from foreclosure.

Biden sat through the debate on other equally significant amendments and then didn't vote either way on those unsuccessful amendments.

Some people inevitably attempt to defend all of these anti-consumer votes by trying to confuse the Bankruptcy "Abuse" Prevention and Consumer "Protection" Act of 2005 with the Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2000, which was a substantially different law that Bill Clinton vetoed. For example, the Senate version of the Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2000 had a provision to protect the first $100,000 in home equity from foreclosure and, more importantly, it included poison pill making bankruptcy unavailable to those who incurred their debt by being fined for illegally protesting abortion clinics. The 2000 bill was only passed by a procedural trick that stripped these key provisions, and this was the specific reason it received a pocket veto.

Given the many different amendments to the bankruptcy bill vetoed in 2000 and the bankruptcy law passed in 2005, you cannot claim that a vote for one is the same as a vote for the other.


BIG BUCKS FROM THE CREDIT CARD INDUSTRY

Through the 2006 campaign cycle, the two Democratic Senators (or House Members, for that matter) who had received the most financing from the Credit Card industry were

1. Tom Carper (Biden's protege), who had received $315,422, and

2. Joe Biden, who had received $285,250.

Subsequently, Biden has raised well more than enough to surpass his protege Carper in terms of fund raising from the Credit Card industry.

For comparison during this time period through the 2006, Hillary had received $109,030, not more than Biden as some have suggested. For further comparison, Obama raised $40,925 and Edwards raised $7,950 from the Credit Card industry during this time frame.

It is a similar story on money from lobbyists: Hillary Clinton has raised the most at $427,950, Chris Dodd next at $181,925, and Joe Biden third most of all Democratic candidates at $94,760, but as a percentage of the total amount they have raised, the percentage is more than twice as high for Biden and Dodd as compared to Hillary. Whether Hillary has also surpassed Biden in total contributions from the Credit Card industry remains to be determined, but she will never catch him in terms of the high percentage of support that Biden receives from the Credit Card industry and if Hillary passes him in total funds that will only be because she's raised more than ten times as much as Biden, with that disparity growing daily.

I'm no fan of Hillary's, but it is simply inaccurate to down play Biden's support from the Credit Card industry while playing up her funding from that industry.

[jillan]

105. Nice try--->

Commercial Banks
Barack Obama (D)
$676,296

John McCain (R)
$515,650

Hillary Clinton (D)
$492,250

Rudolph W. Giuliani (R)
$477,801

Mitt Romney (R)
$470,391

Christopher J. Dodd (D)
$373,950

John Edwards (D)
$127,500

Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D)
$116,350

Bill Richardson (D)
$90,050

Mike Huckabee (R)
$23,250

Sam Brownback (R)
$15,712

Ron Paul (R)
$9,751

Tommy Thompson (R)
$7,850

Thomas J. Vilsack (D)
$6,500

Duncan Hunter (R)
$2,800

Tom Tancredo (R)
$1,325

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=F03

[Tejanocrat]

106. Nice try, yourself. Are you confused or being deliberately misleading? The figure you offer is for

the commercial banking industry. I was speaking of the credit financing industry, and I provided a specific link so it seems hard to imagine how you could miss the distinction. The commercial banking industry as a whole didn't benefit from Biden's anti-consumer bankruptcy vote, the credit financing industry did.

[jillan]

107. Hello? Who do you think owns credit card companies?

and I will add this link

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.asp?Ind=F03&cycle=2006

funny how Biden is not even on there.

[Tejanocrat]

108. The credit card industry and the commercial banks have different interests, and Open Secrets reports

contributions from the two industries separately (I am suspecting that you know this and are just being misleading).

Here's who Open Secrets lists as part of the credit card industry:

FINANCE/CREDIT COMPANIES - Industry Profile, 2007 - Total For Finance/Credit Companies: $12,726,300

Academic Loan Group
Advanta Corp
AEGON USA/Transamerica Finance
Affinity Direct
Alaska Housing Finance Corp
American Express
American Financial Services Assn
Cash America International
Charter Brokerage Corp
Charter Brokerage
CIT Small Business Lending Corp
Clarion Mortgage Capital
Cmte of Unsecured Creditors of Ual Corp
Check N Go
CoBank ACB
College Loan Corp/PA Higher Education Assistance Agency
Consumer Data Industry Assn
Educap Inc
Education Finance Council
Education Finance Partners
Farm Credit Bank of Texas
First Data Corp/Western Union
GMAC LLC
HSBC Finance Corp
MasterCard Inc
Moody's Corp
MyRichUncle Student Loans
National Cncil of Higher Educ Loan Progs
NelNet Inc
North Star Education Finance
Sallie Mae
SLM Corp
New York State Higher Education Services
United Student Aid Funds
Visa USA
Ways to Work


Here's who Open Secrets lists as part of the commercial banking industry:

COMMERCIAL BANKS - Industry Profile, 2007 - Total For Commercial Banks: $21,310,206


1st Financial Bank USA
ABN AMRO/LaSalle Bank
Ace Cash Express
Agstar Financial Services
Alfa Bank
ABN AMRO
American Bank Note
American Bankers Assn
Florida Bankers Assn
Pennsylvania Bankers Assn
Amscot Financial
Bank of America
Bank of New York
Barclays Bank
Buffalo Economic Renaissance Corp
Center For Responsible Lending
Citigroup Inc
Clearing House Payments Co
Colonial Bancgroup
Consumer Bankers Assn
Council of Development Finance Agencies
Deutsche Bank AG
Electronic Payments Coalition
Financial Services Group
First Citizens Bancshares
First National Bank of Omaha
First National of Nebraska
Huntington Bancshares
Independent Community Bankers of America
Institute for College Access & Success
Institute of International Bankers
JP Morgan Chase & Co
Macquarie Corporate Finance
Mellon Financial Corp
Merrick Bank
National Assn of Govt Guaranteed Lenders
National City Corp
National Cooperative Bank
NCB Capital Impact
Pacific Capital Bancorp
PNC Bank Corp
Popular Inc
Puerto Rico Bankers Assn
Regions Financial Corp
Standard Chartered Bank
Swiss Bankers Assn
Trasta Komercbanka
US Bancorp
Wachovia Corp
Wells Fargo
Zions Bancorp
Zions First National Bank



You are blatantly confusing the two industries. Is this on purpose?

[jillan]

110. I have to question your knowledge on this topic.

Credit card companies are a division of financial institutions.
They have to get funding somewhere. Someone cannot just open a credit card company and start passing out credit cards.
Not legally anyway. They have to be backed by a bank, or someother financial institution.

And lending (credit cards, personal loans, mortgages, equity loans, etc) are where banks make the most money.

You are talking to a Loan Officer here.


on edit - look up those credit card companies you listed - they are all tied to a financial institution.

[truebrit71]

112. Not the one that Smirk signed they didn't....

...let's not get the two mixed up...

[rucky]

109. Thanks for the info.

However, it's not a dealbreaker for me. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but it's about midway down on a long list, and he hits my top 3 fairly well: Iraq, healthcare & education.

[mrigirl]

113. Not a dealbreaker for me either!

Based on Biden's 35 yr history there's going to be SOMETHING that he voted on that someone won't agree with. I'm completely ok w/ it. He's done so much good that it doesn't overshadow it. I trust him. He's honest and tells it like it is. No b.s. That's what I'm looking for in our next President. Not someone who has to gage their every response and can't handle speaking on the fly. And his important issues are MY important issues as well.

[truebrit71]

111. This message brought to you by the good folks at MBNA. Screwing the poor for generations...

...Biden?

No thanks.

[lyonn]

116. I have a bigger fight with pharmaceuticals and insurance companies

No one forces you to use a credit card, although they are one of the biggest rip offs. We MUST have insurance for everything it seems and prescriptions prices are more gouging than credit cards.

[jillan]

124. Excellent point.

[gateley]

119. Sincere question - to you and others who are against Biden: Do you support

every vote your candidate has made in the past? I just don't know if anyone who has a 'clean slate'. Even Kucinich voted against SCHIP. He had his reasons, but the results are the same.

[malta blue]

121. He is the candidate in our home....nt

[saltpoint]

122. Joe Biden could be your postman or your president. Your mail would

come on time and your foreign policy wouldn't be generating anti-U.S. hatred abroad.

He's competent, likable, and vastly intelligent. Not a bad combo.

[illinoisprogressive]

123. I am so glad for you. Stick to who you feel the best about. And Biden is good.

[Think82]

125. Great Biden vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhCJ6h_p0GA&mode=user&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OhPG7mk8yQ&mode=user&search=

[RiverStone]

126. Biden voted to give war $$$ to Shrub.

No way could I ever forgive that.

[blondeatlast]

127. He moved way up by voting "no" on Kyl/Lieberman. He's in my top 3.

He's willing to risk when it really matters and with the state of the nation as it is, that's BIG.

[murbley40]

130. kick

:kick:

[kad7777]

131. JOE BIDEN - it's nice to see a healthy, positive post.

From reading most of the posts above, it's nice to see people talk calmly, and express their views intelligently. There's always a nice level of maturity when Joe is discussed. I like that.

In these troubled and dire time we live in, Joe Biden, to me, encompasses all that we desperately need for our nation.
So, what do we expect from our leaders?
Especially our President?

1) Intelligence
2) Experience in ALL phases of government
3) Strength
4) Respect from world leaders
5) Diplomacy
6) Command of issues
7) Solutions to problems that face our nation
8) Honesty
9) Integrity
10) Respect and trust from his peers
11) Respect and trust from the people who follow him

Joe Biden certainly meets ALL of the criteria above.

I pray and hope every day that Mr. & Mrs. America, the people of Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina know in their hearts, that if we lose Joe Biden, we'll have lost one of the best Presidents our nation will ever have.

Please watch a video I produced to show my support for Senator Biden. If you support him, please send the link below to family and friends, and ask them to do the same.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OtGCaqOdIJ4

[PatSeg]

132. 11) Respect and trust from the people who follow him

I have to say the Biden supporters I've encountered the past few weeks have been extremely civil, intelligent, and respectful. Great bunch of people.

[murbley40]

133. kick