Do you honestly believe that congressional Democrats are WILLFULLY capitulating on the war?

[Writer]

Or are they actually dealing with the pesky necessity of DELIBERATION - a key aspect of a democracy?

Please explain in short answer form. I'll take my answers off the air, thank you. :popcorn:

[Demit]

1. Pesky necessity of deliberation looks like nasty reality of collaboration (key aspect of oligarchy)

Short enough for you?

[Buzz Clik]

2. Congressional Dems are covering their asses and facing the reality that the President is in control.

[Echo In Light]

3. Yes

They don't answer to We The People first and foremost, but to their corporate pay masters.

[cali]

7. Just out of curiosity, who are your reps?

Because I'll tell you straight out that mine don't have any corporate pay masters.

[sampsonblk]

4. Yes. No question

Out of fear of a backlash.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

5. Yes.

Nothing left to say.

[robinlynne]

6. unfortunately yes.

[Forkboy]

8. Yes, because they want it as an albatross around the Repuke's neck come election time.

Lives for votes.

Short enough? :)

[DURHAM D]

9. Do you believe that -

"Dems were elected to congress in 2006 to stop the war in Iraq?"

[Totally Committed]

10. Yes, I do. (n/t)

TC

[MadHound]

11. Let's see here,

The Dems could defund the war and bring it to an end anytime they wanted to. The top three candidates can't promise that they'll end the war during their first term. The leading candidate has all but said she'll continue the war through her first term, and is now stealthily laying the groundwork for a conflict with Iran.

I would have to say the answer is yes.

[bpeale]

12. yes. they are capitulating on everything. they are starting

to look more like republicans everyday.

[Perry Logan]

13. Not true. They have capitulated LESS than any Democratic Congress in 50 years

Your impressions are probably false because they come from the corporate media, which will always say the democrats capitulated. You've really got to stay away from that stuff.

The facts prove just the opposite:

"President Bush's success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

"So far this year, Democrats have backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time on average on such votes. That marks the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1728952&mesg_id=1728952
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002576765.html

Don't let the media rhetoric fool you. The Democrats have acquitted themselves quite well--especially given their bare majority in both houses, and a relentlessly obstructionist Republican minority.

[mohc]

18. Lies, damned lies, and statistics

Looking at individual roll call votes may well be a decent objective metric for "party unity", but it certainly misses many things and over counts others. Multiple votes on the same issue compound the importance of the issue, and when Congress fails to even act on an issue, it is not even counted. Stripping out the various designations of facility bills, and all the other measures which garnered near unanimous support (which did include some good legislation such as the 9/11 Commission Recommendations and US Attorney Independence Act) we are left with just a few contentious issues for the 110th Congress. Here is my list:

Iraq
FISA
Impeachment
Gonzales(US Attorney)
Habeas
SCHIP
Stem Cells
Immigration

On Iraq and FISA, Democrats may have "backed the majority position of their caucus", but I would certainly view the Democrats as having capitulated. Indeed the fact that the majority position ran counter to the "Left" view, or at the very least was consistent with the Republicans, makes these issues even worse. While there has been some action on the Gonzales controversy, and he did finally resign, the Democrats have not pushed these issues as strongly as they could have. Habeas restoration seems to in the same ball park as FISA, just getting far less attention. SCHIP and Stem Cell legislation I guess are the Democrats shining achievements for the session so far, but it appears they will be unable to override the vetoes. If they had simply been as unified on all the other issues as they were on these two, I would have no problem with them. Immigration is perhaps the most interesting of the issues, with the Democrats and Republicans split, which makes it hard to analyze. But those that did support this, yet did not fear the backlash, I have some questions for. What was it about immigration reform that made it ok to risk right-wing backlash but not for Iraq, FISA etc...it boggles the mind.

[Writer]

19. This deserves its own thread.

[Lucinda]

14. No.

I think they are dealing with realities.

But I also think they need to step up and get very vocal, keep producing stuff even when they know they cant it get passed, and point out to the public exacty WHO is preventing things from getting done.

[western mass]

15. Yes.

They're counting on the fact that liberals will not punish them for it. They have nothing to lose by doing little to oppose the war.

Liberals are kept in line by fear every bit as much as right-wingers are.

[WCGreen]

16. I really think they feel they have no choice in the matter...

They can't roust a majority and they don't want to appear to be weak on defense issues...

[GreenArrow]

17. not so much capitulation as Complicity.

.