Sandy Berger

[antiimperialist]

Poll question: Sandy Berger

Sandy Berger, who admitted to deliberately taking documents out of the National Archives, has been in the news recently, because he has been unofficially advising Hillary Clinton;

Do you think keeping Berger in this role will hurt or favor Clinton if she becomes the Democratic nominee? or would this have no effect?

[win_in_06]

1. It will hurt. She will have to defend his actions.

[MH1]

7. And his actions are indefensible.

The republicans will blow it up bigger than we want to think it is, but they have the media leverage, and the fact is, he committed a crime. A stupid, indefensible crime.

He needs to stay away from Dem politicians.

[gateley]

2. No effect. She appears to be untouchable. nt

[Mutineer]

11. No candidate is "untouchable". n/t

[gateley]

12. Reagan. Bush.

[onehandle]

3. No effect. Americans have no idea who he is for the most part. nt

[antiimperialist]

4. Unlike in the Hsu case, Hillary knows Berger did something wrong

You cannot blame Clinton for Hsu's past actions, because there is no evidence Clinton knew about his records. She is aware of Berger misdeeds, however, and this is why it would hurt her campaign, IMO.

[Perry Logan]

5. Er...fellas? You are treating right-wing accusations as if they were true. Not a good strategy.

We'll never beat the wingers by believing the crazy suckers! If we let them set the terms of the debate, we've lost before we begin.

The right-wing sound machine is deafening, and it has saturated us with its version of the Sandy Berger story.

Neurology dictates that, if you hear something repeated often enough, you inevitably come to perceive it as true--just another reason we should eschew the corporate media as much as possible. It is designed to weaken the left, and this thread proves its effectiveness.

But, as always, the Right are full of it. Read this defense by Media Matters:

"Anatomy of a smear: Sandy Berger "socks" shocker; Lies, blind quotes, and innuendo rampant in Berger coverage"

On July 19, the Associated Press was the first to report that the Federal Bureau of Investigation is investigating former Clinton national security adviser Sandy Berger for allegedly illegally removing classified documents and personal notes from the National Archives last fall during preparations for his appearance before the 9-11 Commission.

This much is known: Berger and his lawyer, Lanny Breuer, have said for the record that: 1) Berger inadvertently put several copies of classified documents into a leather portfolio he was carrying; and 2) that Berger put handwritten notes, which he had made while reviewing the documents, in his jacket and in his pants pockets.

But rumors and confusion abound in media coverage:

Media confuses originals and copies. As the story unfolded between July 20 and July 22, conservative pundits have run with speculation that Berger removed original classified documents, rather than copies, from the archive and then destroyed them as part of a cover-up. But there is no evidence to support this accusation; in fact, according to The Washington Post, "The documents removed were copies; the National Archives retained the originals."

Media propounds rumor that Berger placed documents in his socks and pants. It was reported -- notably by CNN -- that Berger put the classified documents into his pants and/or his socks -- allegations that Breuer has said are "false" and "ridiculous" and for which there is no on-the-record substantiation. This reportage was then amplified by MSNBC hosts Chris Matthews, Joe Scarborough, and Pat Buchanan; by the New York Daily News and the New York Post; by Ann Coulter and Kellyanne Conway; by a slew of right-wing columnists like Linda Chavez and Cal Thomas; and by right-wing radio show hosts such as Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Michael Savage. Worse still, some of these same media outlets and media personalities falsely attributed to Berger and his lawyer the claim that Berger had put the classified documents into his pants and/or socks -- even after Berger and his lawyer said Berger had not done so.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200407230001

[lojasmo]

14. Erm....Berger plead GUILTY. EOM

[...of J.Temperance]

6. I voted for Hurt

If Sandy Berger gets involved in Senator Clinton's campaign, it's going to deflect attention away from her talking and campaigning about the real issues that are of paramount importance to people.

Senator Clinton will have to spend an inordinate amount of time answering too many questions about Sandy Berger and what he did....and NO candidate can afford to waste that amount of time during a campaign.

[Frances]

8. You make good points

The previous post pointed out that Berger was the victim of right wing gotcha politics. But I think Hillary would be wise to avoid the distraction his advice would cause. However, Hillary has always addressed this issue (said he's a good friend but not a paid advisor).

I get tired of defending Hillary on DU, especially since I haven't decided who I will support. It's just that some of the anti-Hillary arguments don't make sense to me.

[...of J.Temperance]

9. Senator Clinton is a perfectly good candidate

If she won the nomination, then I'd totally support her....as of right now I'm with John Edwards.

You get tired of defending Hillary....Lol! Been there, done that, got the t-shirt....I've had a slight break from DU for a while, but prior to my break, I spent a TON of time almost constantly defending Senator Clinton, I recall that I spent rather a lot of time defending Senator Mary Landrieu as well.

I agree with you, I can't understand some of the comments made about Senator Clinton, the animosity that's directed at her from some quarters is absolutely mind-boggling....if people can't see that she'd be better than running the risk of allowing a ghoul like Rudy Guiliani into office, well then....

Regarding Sandy Berger, it doesn't matter, because the damage and the smearing have already been done....sure I myself think Berger goofed up by doing what he did, it wasn't a criminal act though, it was just an AMAZINGLY stupid act, and one that is always going to kept being brought up whenever he appears in public.

I don't think that Senator Clinton ever asked Sandy Berger to be a paid advisor, I think it's just another attempt by those who hate the woman, to smear her.

The amount of crap that Senator Clinton is getting thrown at her....leads me to believe, that they REALLY must be TERRIFIED of her getting the nomination....and they should be terrified of her getting the nomination, because if she gets the nod....I predict she'll win the General Election and become the first female President.

[Frances]

16. Thanks for your comments

I also like Edwards; I voted for him in the California primary in 2004. But I haven't made a final decision about whom I'll vote for this time.

[...of J.Temperance]

17. You're welcome :)

John Edwards appears to be a great fellow, I think he'd make an outstanding President.

Of course I really wanted Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana to run, if he had of done, he'd have had my TOTAL support, I think he's an amazingly talented politician and crucially he's got crossover appeal, and he has Executive experience, he was a longtime Governor before becoming a Senator, I can't see any bad points with Senator Bayh at all.

[durrrty libby]

10. No effect. The aveage Joe does not give a shit

[wyldwolf]

13. how about a 4th option for the anti-Hillary folks: Do you HOPE it hurts Clinton?

[...of J.Temperance]

18. It's sad that people would think that

That they'd hope something damages Senator Clinton, I mean she's on OUR side afterall, so she does deserve respect and support.

[Hawkowl]

15. Hurt, but..

It will be things like this which will hurt her chances in the general election, but have no affect whatsoever on the primary. The RW hate machine will dredge up, and make up absolutely anything to bring the election to a small enough margin to steal.

[Frances]

19. They will do that for any Dem candidate

They did it to Bill Clinton and Al Gore and John Dean and John Kerry and John Edwards (is there anyone in the universe who doesn't know about his $400 haircut?). Remember Max Cleland (the Georgia senator who lost 3 limbs in Vietnam) morphing into Osama? They are doing it as we speak to that 12 year old kid who got gov't health insurance after a car accident.