Do caucus primaries cause family strife?

[CK_John]

I'm not sure the reasons for an open caucus outweigh the privacy of a secret ballot. To me they seem intent on forcing family members to hide their true feelings for a candidate in order to prevent strife on the home front between SO's and generational members. What you think?

[rwheeler31]

1. It is a wonderful idea, when we had community it worked.

[CK_John]

2. Did it really work or was it used by the dominant family member to offset the women's vote or

for union boss to see who was not following the script or for the grange to keep it's members in line.

[cyberswede]

35. precincts are small

Most people aren't in the same precinct as their boss, fer chrissakes. Plus, the whole point is DISCOURSE. People are EXPECTED to disagree and make arguments for their candidate to try and pursuade others to their camp.

Have you ever been to a caucus?

Oh - and why do you think the dominant family member is a male?

[CK_John]

38. I was referring to the history of caucus's being formed when the women got the right to vote.

[cyberswede]

39. Doctors used to use leeches, too n/t

[Debi]

43. Oh My!

:spray:


:hug:

[Debi]

3. People will say just about anything to attack the caucuses n/t

[zulchzulu]

4. Those that attack the caucus process have never participated in one

I have. They are fascinating as a way to do politics and vote.

I look forward to being an observer in Iowa in January. It's still in January, right?

:-)

[Debi]

5. *sigh* I wish I knew!

Mr. Debi just said that the OP must not be married...:P

[CK_John]

7. I was when I lived in a caucus state and yes most every couple voted as a pair?

[Debi]

8. That doesn't mean that there was emotional dominance or submissiveness between the couples

only like-mindedness. (Unless you know otherwise based on your own personal experience).

[CK_John]

11. It was the taken as a sign of a troubled marriage if couples voted differently. (60's and 70's). n/t

[Debi]

13. Have you looked at the calendar lately? n/t

[CK_John]

17. Of course, the pressures are different but that doesn't mean they are not there. Like

single headed families are now the majority, so less pressure. But how about those that you depend on, church elders, social workers, probation officers, town bully, etc.

[Debi]

18. They all live in the same precinct? There are almost 2,000 precincts in Iowa

I've heard so much of this intimidation crap but no anecdotal evidence to back it up. Please tell me the story of an emotionally abuse wife 'forced' to caucus for candidate x when she really like candidate y because she wanted to keep peace in the home. :eyes:

[CK_John]

20. And how would go about doing that?

[Debi]

23. Your the one who started this thread - you must know some poor dear

woman who was forced into caucusing for someone she didn't like because she didn't want her husband to be angry with her. (Or you made it all up just to bash caucuses). Of course you know that women aren't always the submissive one in a marriage and that some couples are enlightened enough to allow each other to have their own preferences. Even here in Iowa.

[CK_John]

29. Yes I do, many friends have told me the ballot box was the only decision they got to make alone.

[Debi]

31. So they've been intimidated at a caucus? n/t

[CK_John]

6. Having lived in the midwest for many yrs, I have been to many caucus's

they are mostly a study in social pressure and are very undemocratic and should be replaced with secret ballots. They have no latitude for people who live on different schedules, very long drawn out process of intimidation, their time has come and should be done away with.

[Debi]

9. Thank you for your opinion. How about letting those of us who live in states

that hold caucuses decide how we want to have our presidential preferences recorded? If there is a push to end caucuses shouldn't it be from the folks that participate in them insted of people who don't live in caucus states? Or do you know what's best for us?

[CK_John]

12. The problem is that the Iowa caucus is used as a national make/break contest, so it affects everyone

[Debi]

14. And that is Iowa's fault? Or is it the MSM and the lemmings that follow the MSM

and refuse to support their candidate of choice after Iowa?

[youthere]

55. Oh horseshit.

The Iowa caucus only makes or breaks the campaigns of the 2% at BEST. The candidates with the widest appeal are not stopped by a poor showing in Iowa. I've heard this tired crap being repeated over and over ad nauseum on DU and it's time to put it to bed once and for all.

[Debi]

61. Nice language

Is that your caucus mouth??? :hide:

[cobalt1999]

10. I've never liked the concept of caucuses.

I've always agreed with the concept of everyone getting a vote and doing so secretly.

Caucuses seem elitist in that a few think they should decide for all and ignore the social pressure factor.

[Debi]

15. That and the fact that you've posted on every anti-Iowa thread that comes along

:eyes:

[cobalt1999]

16. And you defend your privileged status at every chance.

Doesn't change the fact that caucuses are not ideal except for those, like you, who are the privileged few.

[Debi]

21. Should I be doing something other than defending Iowa?

Since you have never participated in a caucus you don't know whether they are good or bad, you only know what you read or hear about. (and that you don't like it)

Do you also not like Alaska's caucus? Or Colorado's? I bet you're seething about New Mexico's caucus!! Or what about North Dakotas? Don't forget Nebraska's caucus - those may be pretty bad! Or what about Washington's? Ohhhh and Maine (can't trust those folks in Maine!) How about Nevada's do you dislike Nevada's caucus too? I bet you really don't like Michigan's caucus! Or is it just Iowa's caucus that you don't like?

Tell me why Iowans should be forced to give up caucusing (this post isn't about placement on the calendar)? Seems that we should get to make that decision for ourselves, not just because folks form other states don't like it. (or at least think they don't like it)

[cobalt1999]

25. Shoot, if I had your position of power, I'd fight tooth and nail to hold onto it too.

Caucus in principle I don't think are the most democratic voting method. I can have that opinion regardless of what state I live in.

[Debi]

28. Of course you can - as uneducated of an opinion that it may be

I hope you will want to hear for actual caucus-goers how they really work and how democratic they really are. Better that than just slamming the unfamiliar activity because it is an unknown that you don't want to learn about.

[cobalt1999]

32. You show your own ignorance

I speak as someone who spent a year in Colorado and experienced the 1996 primaries from there, so I've seen both first hand. I'm used to your spin and defense of Iowa's elite status.

[Debi]

34. Please tell me about your experiences in Colorado

Is there a realignment process or is the 'caucus' like Michigan's Caucuses where a person goes into a voting booth and marks a ballot? Or is it like Iowa republicans where people write a candidates name on a piece of paper? Since I know nothing of Colorado's process I'd like to be educated about it before denouncing it.

[cobalt1999]

40. well, it was over 10 years ago...

However, our neighborhood held a Tuesday caucus that took over 3 hours before everyone finished discussing issues and voted (on paper I remember...no booth).

Of the neighborhood of around 2000 people, only 20 showed up. Those 20 spent the entire evening there...not exactly a format that busy folks or people needing to take care of children in the evening could attend.

Yes, yes, Iowa is better...I'll save you from posting how quickly, fairly, and harmoniously Iowa caucuses work, so you don't feel threatened that anyone will take away your influence over the rest of us. (Like I said, if I were in your position, I would fight anyone suggesting change too).

[Debi]

42. Like I stated in a different post we have the presidential preference at the beginning of the caucus

and after the delegates are selected a person has the option to leave the caucus (I think the alignment and re-alignment processes are also under a time limit, but with our small precinct we've never needed more that 10-15 minutes to make our first choice and time to count, another 15 or so minutes to make our second choice (if necessary) and then the final count and call to the state party). It probably takes longer in larger precincts just because of the counting.

I also note that you had a straw poll which would tend to be private so not really subject to the intimidation I keep hearing about happening here in Iowa (or open to what the OP has implied).

As for children, my son has attended the caucuses with me - this year he will be caucusing. He has already pledged his support to a candidate (and so far hasn't resorted to man-handling his father or me on behalf of his candidate) ;)

[dflprincess]

22. Caucuses are open to anyone who wants to attend them

They are not any more elitist than low voter turn out on election day.

In Minnesota, employers are required to give (unpaid) time off so employees may attend their caucus. Back when I was in college, I took advantage of that law a couple times.

One of the great advantages to caucuses is that issues actually get discussed. Another is, that a candidate with a smaller budget has a better chance of being successful than he or she would be in a primary state. In a caucus state, organization is more important than adverstising.

[Debi]

24. Have you ever felt intimidated at a caucus?

Did you feel you needed to caucus for a specific candidate to keep peace with a loved one or your boss or neighbor?

I've never seen intimidation at a caucus, but I wonder if anyone else has. Every time I defend caucusing I hear horror stories (form non-caucus state individuals of course). I wonder if any of the stories are true or if they are just being made up to bolster the story-teller's opinion.

[CK_John]

27. Do you intimate others at your caucus?

[Debi]

30. There is no way I could even if I wanted to

It's a gathering of like-minded neighbors who have (for the most part) made up their minds on who they will support(and who their second choice will be if their candidate is non-viable). We eat snacks and drink coffee/cocoa and go stand up for our preferred candidate. If that candidate is non-viable then our neighbors will discuss why they chose the candidate they did. Then we re-align behind an already viable candidate and count. Then we take a break to call delegate #s in to the state party, go re-fill our refreshments and settle in to the task of who will be the delegates for each candidate and who will serve on the Central Committee and the different County Convention committees as well as reading and passing any resolutions we want to go into the County Convention Platform.

I've participated in one republican caucus and two Democratic caucuses. The republican caucus is a straw poll, so after I wrote my candidate's name in I left b/c I didn't want to serve on any committees. In both the Democratic caucuses I attended my candidate was viable (in 2000 there was no non-viable candidate so no additional campaigning was done, in 2004 I spoke with the undecided/non-viable folks and they stated up front they would not go with my candidate). Both in 2000 and 2004 the candidate selection process was completed in under an hour. Of course I'm from a small precinct, so that may be different in larger areas.

[dflprincess]

54. No and I can't say I've seen it between couples either

I have seen couples caucus for different candidates - but they're still both supporting DFLers so I don't think there's any strange dynamics going on there. Caucuses are neighborhood things so I doubt if many people caucus with the bosses (and, up until now, all of my bosses have been Republicans so I wouldn't have caucused with them even if they lived next door to me) and I can't say I've ever seen neighbors putting pressure on each other.

Nor have I ever tried to intimidate someone though I've certainly tried to persuade people I thought might be on the fence about something and I've had people bring me around to their point of view when I've been iffy about something - but with facts and reasoned arguments, not with bullying.

[cyberswede]

36. What?

What "few" think they should decide for all? Any registered voter can attend a caucus. In fact, they're the opposite of elitist - getting together with neighbors to discuss issues and candidates. Platform issues for the state platform originate at the caucus. If I lived in a state with a primary, how would I go about getting my issue reviewed by the platform committee?

[CK_John]

41. Wrong about any registered voter attending a caucus, a registered party member

can attend a party caucus. How many states have caucus and how many use the ballot box and the total population of caucus states is? I think we could get along without them.

[Debi]

45. A person can register to be a 'party member' at the caucus

and take a registration home with them to go back to their party of choice the next day (many 'no-party' voters do this in order to participate in the caucuses).

You haven't answered why any state other than Iowa should decided for Iowa whether we should hold a caucus or some other form of presidential selection process.

[CK_John]

47. I did but you blamed it on the M$M.

[Debi]

49. And folks in Iowa placing a mark on a ballot would stop

and the MSM from shouting the 'winner' on 24/7 news channels? Iowans not gathering together to discuss party building would stop people from acting like sheep and changing their support from candidate x to candidate y because "that's what Iowa did"?

I don't think a caucus creates those shenanigans, I think calendar placement does that. And your OP is not about calendar placement.

[Rambis]

19. No

People live in split households Dem vs Pug. What makes you think that going to a caucus where you support the Democratic party would cause strife within the family? I have been to the caucus and these scenarios about corruption and coercion I read about on DU have never happened in my presence. The Kerry people had chips and dip last year maybe that bought them some votes but this is ridiculous.

[Debi]

26. I don't know if food will sway people - I was a Dean precinct captain last year

and the Kerry and Edwards folks ate my cookies, drank my hot cocoa and then caucused AGAINST Dean :wow: (note to self, don't bring food to caucus next time....don't want it to be a friendly or neighborly experience *sigh*)

[youthere]

56. I was forced to caucus against Edwards...despite the orgasmic rueben dip..

his supporters brought (with homemade rye crisps, no less).

[Debi]

57. THE HORROR

Good food should win out everytime!! :P

[youthere]

58. I know..I KNOW!

I feel so dirty.

[Debi]

59. Have you seen the post in the Iowa Forum?

Looks like we'll be :beer: in January!!

[cyberswede]

33. horsefeathers

For crying out loud! This is silly on so many levels, I don't even know where to begin...

Unless you live in the same precinct as your parents/grandparents, you're not even AT the caucus with your generational family members (if everyone in the family even goes). That's assuming candidate preference would cause strife to begin with. I'm skeptical.

As for the SOs - I would think that most relationships could withstand an informed difference of opinion. Are there couples out there who seriously keep it a secret from each other who they support? I'd day that's a relationship problem, not a caucus problem.

Finally, caucus goers are rarely shy little flowers that are afraid to voice an opinion. The whole point of a caucus is to have a voice and to discuss issues and candidates with other people. I find the process MUCH more satisfying and stimulating than just pulling a lever (or filling in an oval, these days). :)

thx - cs

[Blue Gardener]

37. I think that is absurd

I have participated in several caucuses and have never felt coerced in any way. It feels more like a big party with all the cool neighbors who want a Democrat in the White House.

[CK_John]

44. Maybe that is because the people that go are vastly different that the avoiders

of conflict that stay home and avoid caucus's altogether.

[Debi]

46. Then that destroys the theory of your OP.

How can a person be forced to caucus for a candidate if they never attend the caucus in the first place?

[CK_John]

48. We are going in circles, I think caucus bad, you think caucus good, bye.

[Debi]

50. Since no Iowans bought into your argument you'll take your ballot box and go home?

:hi:

[CK_John]

51. It's a secret ballot box so I can't tell you. n/t

[Debi]

52. And I'd hate to be accused of bullying you into doing so

(of course the fact that you responded after you'd already said good-bye must mean you've been subject to my Iowa-style intimidation)

[cyberswede]

53. There is no conflict to avoid n/t

[Bluzmann57]

60. What do I think?:

I think you are full of shit.