Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Only One Congress Member Gets It

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:31 PM
Original message
Only One Congress Member Gets It
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 11:32 PM by davidswanson
By David Swanson

On Wednesday, I spoke with Congresswomen Barbara Lee and Lynn Woolsey about getting out of Iraq. They are moving in the right direction, but are not yet serious about ending the occupation this year. They are resigned to putting up an effort in a misguided approach, and then hoping to actually end it in 2009. It has not yet penetrated anyone's understanding that the best chance we have to end the occupation of Iraq between now and 2013 is during the next 14 months.

For almost a year Congressman Dennis Kucinich has been saying that the Democratic leadership in Congress should end the occupation of Iraq by not bringing up for a vote any more bills to fund it. For all these months, he has been the only member of Congress willing to say this.

The closest position espoused by any of the other 534 members of the House and Senate is that Congress should pass a bill to fund only the withdrawal of the troops and mercenaries. Of course, they don't say mercenaries but "contractors," and instead of withdrawal they say (and often mean) "redeployment," and they're willing to fund another year or more of the occupation if the bill doing so "funds the redeployment" by January 2009. This is the position of the 88 congress members who have signed the Peace Pledge Letter that is finally attracting a little attention. Or, rather, it would be their position if you could believe them. Most of the 88 just voted billions more for the occupation in a Continuing Resolution.

But here's the chief problem with the "fund a withdrawal" idea. It keeps everyone talking in terms of passing a bill. And once that bill fails in the Senate or is vetoed, everyone will still be talking in terms of passing a bill, but they'll pass a bill that simply funds the occupation. The idea that the Pentagon needs money to withdraw the troops and mercenaries is absurd. That's pocket change for the Pentagon. Kucinich advocates requiring Bush to use money already appropriated.

A recent poll offered people a choice of spending another $200 billion without conditions (13 percent of the country supported this), spending $200 billion but requiring that all troops be home within a year (19 percent), spending $50 billion and requiring that all troops be home in six months (14 percent), or requiring Bush to use existing funds to bring all troops home in six months (40 percent). One congress member represents 40 percent of Americans.

On Wednesday, Kucinich released a statement demanding that the Democratic leadership require Bush to use existing funds to end the occupation. "If they don't, then they're just as responsible as the President for continuing this illegal and immoral war," said Kucinich, "and open to accusations of fraud upon the American people for promising during last year's elections that Democratic control of the Congress would mean an end to the war. Instead of ending the war, the leadership has knuckled under time and time again and given the President every dollar he's asked for to continue it."

By delaying a vote until early next year on the Defense Department's $190 billion appropriation bill, the Democratic leaders of the House and the Senate have tacitly acknowledged that the war effort is already fully funded for the next several months, Kucinich said. "The leadership needs to force a showdown with the President and demand that those billions of dollars be used to bring our troops home now." He estimated the cost to withdraw all troops and equipment at between $5 billion and $10 billion. "That money is there right now. There is no excuse not to use it to bring our troops home."

Kucinich, the only Democratic Presidential candidate who voted against the original war authorization in 2002 and every supplemental war-funding appropriation since, said Democratic protestations that they don't have the votes to block additional funding "is a hoax. You don't need votes. All we need is the backbone to exercise our Constitutional authority and the integrity to keep our word to the voters to do what we said we would do: end this war. Now."

Kucinich has been saying this for many months and has failed, as far as I know, to bring a single additional congress member around to his position. Meanwhile, the Progressive Caucus, co-chaired by Woolsey and Lee, has organized 88 congress members to sign their letter, which begins

"Seventy House Members wrote in July to inform you that they will only support appropriating additional funds for U.S. military operations in Iraq during Fiscal Year 2008 and beyond for the protection and safe redeployment of our troops out of Iraq before you leave office."

Kucinich is one of the 88 who have signed. If enough congress members back this letter and stand behind it, it will become very difficult for Pelosi to pass any Iraq funding bill other than the worst sort of unconditional funding that will win considerable backing from Republicans. A bill to fund a withdrawal will die in the Senate or be vetoed. At that point, Pelosi will search around for a bill she can pass without the support of progressives. What would make her less likely to go this route would be if the 87 other than Kucinich who have signed the letter were talking about it in terms of the ultimate goal of not passing any bill. Instead they are talking in terms of pressuring the Senate to pass their bill. The words "sixty senators" are constantly on their lips, even though everyone knows the next impossible feat after winning over 60 senators would have to be winning over 67 senators (60 to get past a filibuster, 67 to get past a veto).

At an event I attended Wednesday evening (see photo album), Congressman Jim Moran gave a speech in which he claimed that the Democrats could not end the occupation without 60 senators. This is crazy. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid could single-handedly refuse to bring Iraq funding bills up for votes. Or 41 senators could block any such bill. And Nancy Pelosi could single-handedly refuse to bring Iraq funding bills up for a vote. It would take 218 members signing a petition to force a vote against her will. And she has shown how effectively she can assert her will when she wants to.

Congresswomen Woolsey and Lee spoke after Moran. They spoke of the importance of the House acting as it should regardless of the Senate, but then lamented the state of the Senate and concluded that at least they'd end the occupation in 2009. I talked to Woolsey and Lee separately afterwards.

Woolsey did not at first even understand what I was trying to tell her. She insisted that 60 senate votes are needed. I explained that only 41 or 1 (Harry Reid's) would do it once we get to the point of blocking bills. She understood, but clearly believed the whole discussion was outside the realm of discourse on Capitol Hill.



Lee seemed to understand more quickly what I was saying, but also to lack any confidence that a real attempt to end the occupation this year could get off the ground. I asked her what would happen if her proposal for funding "redeployment" died in the Senate or on the president's desk. Would people understand that it was time to pass no legislation, or would they insist on passing some bill, any bill? The latter, she said. But she expressed a willingness to start trying to talk in terms of blocking any bills to fund the occupation.



Sadly, the list we need to be watching even more than the list of signers of the Peace Pledge letter, is the list of congress members who want to end the occupation, not by passing a bill, but by blocking one. This list currently has only one person's name on it. If it doesn't grow quickly, and if the presidential election doesn't change drastically, we will be facing at least five more years of occupying Iraq.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. recommended-- THIS is why dems are failing America just as badly...
...as republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
superkia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. You are correct and this is why Americans are failing the troops...
by supporting candidates that somehow saw evidence to go to war in 2002 and continued to fund the war. The Democrats that voted for it knew exactly what they were doing or were very incompetent, either way they should NOT be the ones that we the people want to run our country. That is enough for me to support Kucinich and not the others.

Here are a couple other reasons I am voting for Dennis Kucinich. If there are other candidates that support these ideas maybe I could ignore their vote for a deadly war for profit and power but I haven't seen them speaking out so it is an easy choice for me.

He said the war was about oil and saw no evidence to go to war.
He wants the patriot act repealed and believes it is an attack on our civil rights.
He wants non profit health care for all.
He went to the floor asking for investigations into the Hunt oil deal( Bush and Cheneys buddy Ray Hunt) in Iraq.
He is for impeachment. Yes he is for IMPEACHMENT.
He is speaking out about the governments attack on our constitution.
He doesn't believe in selling out to corporate interests to gain funds to further his campaign.
He wants to make any corporation with an American name pay taxes here.
He wants to cut the runaway Pentagon budget to save the economy.
He believes in peace before war.
He believes we need separation of corporation and state.
He believes marijuana should be decriminalized.
He believes NAFTA and GATT intentionally limit workers rights.

Dennis Kucinich the candidate that gives Americans a voice!:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mrspeeker Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. Hell Yeah!
Of course all the stuff I like and want to hear always comes from the same place, thanks David!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
107. Great List!
Dennis Kucinich also the ONLY Democratic Candidate who:

*Opposes the Iraqi "Oil Law" Benchmark, a warcrime that demands that Iraq Privatize their oil reserves and give 80% to American Oil Corps. DK is the ONLY candidate who has spoken out on this issue.

*Pledges to join the ICC, and the International Ban on Landmines.

*Who supports Transparent and Verifiable Elections. Paper ballots publicly hand counted at the precinct.


Vote for Hillary for Homecoming Queen, but vote for DK for President!


”Unlike other candidates, I am not funded by those corporate interests.
I owe them no loyalty, and they have no influence over me or my policies.”
---Dennis Kucinich

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
93. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #93
108. Your ad hominem is unwarrented, untrue, and against DU Rules
N/T
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
113. very true mike
very true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Your take on Lee is consistent with other reports I've read.
Even if it's not what I want to hear, I can count on her to be straight with me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rusty quoin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
3.  Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid could single-handedly refuse to bring Iraq funding bills up for v
That's the thing. I don't understand what is going on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dickbearton Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
87. Rusty you don't understand what is going on because you are naive.
Politics, like life itself, is very complex. It is complex
beyond your imagination. Your simple minded idea is just that,
simple minded. Don't be a simpleton; learn to bask in the
complexity of it all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. !kciK
Woolsey and Lee are my political wet dream.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks K&R n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. Even Kucinich Still Comes Up "Short"
Sure, he's best of a bad lot BUT...

...you can't "defund" anything with a regime perfectly prepared to fund lawlessly.

...and you can't "stand against this (p)Resident" by only impeaching cheney.

...and you can't command Euphemedia attention if you don't say "torture" and "war crimes."

This is why he's gaining no campaign traction. And why the "cut the funds hoax" is just another dead end in the DC-DemocRat's Maze.

And why it's time to stop being "Anti-War" and start being "Pro-Impeachment."

No, you can't ride two horses with the same behind.

---
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
96. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #96
112. Sorry you find things so complex
They aren't really, you know. Maybe if you made a simple chart.

But one can always impeach -- accuse -- object. Sometimes it leads to justice and accountability, sometimes it doesn't. But it is always the first step in that direction. Failure to impeach is complicity.

Oh and btw, if you're standing up it isn't actually riding.

==
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. Barbara Lee and Lynn Woolsey are heroic. They
Will be reminded later this month (on the 5 year anniversary of Wellstone's mysterious plane crash) that those who do not totally agree do not live too long.

My only problem with the current House of Representatives is that there need to be at least 528 other HR members who espouse the beliefs of these two women.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. Video of Kucinich's remarks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
10. Yesterday in Albuquerque, NM Dennis
Today, Elizabeth, is 10 orders of magnitude smarter than beautiful (and she is very very pretty).
Expert on monetary matters, good answers about the WTO and NAFTA, CAFTA, etc.. Good answers on how the US can pull out as neighboring nations put in troops to stop Iraq from falling apart as our troops (much of the cause of insurgency) pull out. Tune in to film at Kucincinh site or you tube for 10/10 event with Elizabeth in ABQ and the speech by David and Monica, 13 year old brother and sister who do what they can and want their elders to do the right thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
11. Nonsense. And pernicious nonsense at that.
If the democrats didn't put forward a funding bill, the repukes would have a discharge petition out there in a nano second. Don't know what that is? Here?

A discharge petition is a means of bringing a bill out of committee and to the floor for consideration without a report from a Committee and usually without cooperation of the leadership. Discharge petitions are most often associated with the U.S. House of Representatives, though many state legislatures have similar procedures. They are used when the chair of a committee refuses to place a bill or resolution on the Committee's agenda; by never reporting a bill, the matter will never leave the committee and the full House will not be able to consider it. A successful petition "discharges" the committee from further consideration of a bill or resolution and brings it directly to the floor. The discharge petition, and the threat of one, gives more power to individual members of the House and usurps a small amount of power from the leadership and committee chairs. The modern discharge petition requires the signature of an absolute majority of House members (218 members).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discharge_petition

Don't think they could get enought signatures? Think again. All the repukes minus Ron Paul, plus a handful of bushdogs. That funding bill would be on the floor so fast, you're head will spin. And it would pass.

Then what? What happens to Pelosi? She'd be gone. Who would the dems put up? Probably Hoyer.

The sad thing about this article is that both Swanson and Dennis know this stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Please don't confuse anyone with facts...
when their minds are made up and points are to be made.

I don't know enough about discharge petitions to know if that would work, but I do know about the fungibility of funds and that any attempt to defund the war would immediately put everything and everyone in Iraq at risk until the administration figures out how to get things like food and ammo to the troops now there.

You're right-- everyone actually working on this stuff in DC knows all this and any of them saying anything different is simply trying to confuse matters for their own interests.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I have little doubt that it would work
I don't know about how not putting a udning bill forward would effect things, but this simplistic shit about how it's easy and the dems just don't want to do it- put forth by people who should know better, is a crying shame.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. sad
is accusing anyone who disagrees with you of lying. I've discussed this process at length more times than i care to count. i have a website at http://www.davidswanson.org It would be very difficult for them to get 218 on a discharge petition to fund Bush and Cheney's occupation of Iraq if
1- Pelosi and Reid announced that there would be no more bills to fund it, and the public reaction was the immense gratitude it would be, and
2- Pelosi whipped even half as hard against the discharge petition as she whipped in May for blank check funding of more genocide

But here's the real clincher. If Pelosi and the bulk of the Democrats miraculously grew spines and ended the occupation, but a discharge petition succeeded, the result would be the same in terms of funding the damn war, but the result would be very different politically. The Democrats' popularity would soar, the presidential debate would change, and the chances of ending the thing in 2009 would significantly increase. It would become very difficult for the Dem leader, if there still is one, to support funding after having opposed it.

Of course Beltway Democrats think exactly like what you lay out above, but they will destroy their party. Adn they'll give us 5 more years of war. Unless something is done, a Dem Congress will not try to end the occupation under a Dem president or be able to under a Repub
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. what makes you think that it would be difficult?
And no, I don't think you have a crystal ball. As for your 'truthiness', I've seen it in other things you've written. Quite disappointing- and sad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. You are correct in one point only. I do know nothing of the run in you claim to have had with him
in another post.

Perhaps if you find him to be unreliable, you should place him on ignore.

I wasn't aware there are different standards of conduct based on whether a poster is a well known writer or an unknown writer. And hearsay is just that.


By the way, I don't know you from beans. I have no way to hold you in either high or low esteem. I can only say that your post I responded to up thread I found to be unethical for a couple of reasons.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
83. Thank you for saying what I wanted to say
and saying it without the foulmouthed invective I would have said it with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
90. I completely disagree...
I think Pelosi does have a spine and exhibits it constantly. She stood up to the entire base of the Democratic Party and defied the will of the people in a bid to secure a Democratic White House for the DLC. I'd say that takes a lot of spine... how many deaths will be on her head so we can hang the war around the necks of the Republicans in '08? That's the only possible reason a Democrat could have for continuing this heinous act. Sure, she'll be soaked in blood over this power play but it takes guts to be responsible for so much death. If there is even the most remote chance that there is a God, holy crap... eternal damnation does not sound like a thing a pussy would wish on his or herself. She may be a cold heartless power mad bitch... but spineless? Hardly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
41. Wow... I wonder why I never heard of discharge petitions
when we were the minority party.

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. That's easy.
The repuke party is far more homogenous in the House than the dem party. You couldn't have peeled off their "moderates" nearly as easily.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. Actually
we had a major effort to discharge HJR 55 to end the war. It was a weak bill with a very distant deadline to end the war. We figured we cold get a majority, but we didn't, and the distant deadline has now come and gone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
67. Then make them do it.
The real progressives in the House need to fight this to the edge of the field even if it means losing some power.

Ultimately a show-down of this proportion would illuminate the real positions of all Dems and Repugs on the war for the American people to see clearly.

My beef with the current tactics is that they are designed to provide centrist and pro-war Dems with political cover. They are dishonest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
12. It is SO important to highlight that 41 is enough! Thank you
and recommend nr 20
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. Hey, the Dems are just keeping their powder dry
so that when they get the power again they can also play war...

It's good for business...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Two words:
Discharge petition.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. 7 words-
Take it to the mat for once.

Want another two words? - Nuclear option.

Remember that excuse for allowing bush to stack the court?

With Dems like this, we don't need Republicans.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. That sums it up perfectly, John Q. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
77. Amen to that
With Dems like this, we don't need Republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jmp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
17. k/r
...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
20. he dares.......... he challenges....in statements
if Dennis really believes in what he says...then get on the house floor......every day for the minute speeches.........tell the whole body of the House.......don't expect them to read your web site to find out your thoughts.......

keep pushing .if you must...but face them.face to face!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
51. he does
say this on the floor, in the dem caucus, on the cannon terrace, etc...

they've heard it, but it goes in one ear and straight out the halliburton
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
110. You obviously don't watch much C-SPAN.
Edited on Fri Oct-12-07 12:00 AM by bvar22
Not only does he regularly do all the things you mentioned, but he also authors legislation and presents the Bills to Congress on everything from Defunding the War to Impeaching Cheney.
You really couldn't be more off. Dennis is a dynamo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. Thanks for posting this
It is sad but true
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
26. Great work, David! - the utter simplicity is astounding
How much easier could it be?

With both the House and Senate under Democratic control, all that's necessary is to block any future Iraq funding bill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
27. Why the Dems won't defund the occupation:
They're afraid of the political consequences.

Their popularity might temporarily soar among some voters who aren't already in the Democratic camp, but the long term consequences of forcing a withdrawal from Iraq are fraught with uncertainty and major political risk.

Iraq is a disaster whether we withdraw now or remain permanently. If the Dems force Bush to pull out for lack of funding, what happens in the aftermath in Iraq will be blamed on the Dems. It could be a real bloody mess with repurcussions elsewhere in the region.

Let me set something perfectly straight:
This is the fault of the Cheney/Bush administration. They set the inevitable disaster in motion when they so eagerly pried opened the Iraqi Pandora Box.

But if you know anything about US politics you know the repukes and their media accomplices will hold up the forced withdrawal and subsequent disaster as exhibit #1 of why the Democratic Party cannot be trusted in matters of national security.

And a substantial percentage of the voting public will be persuaded as every subsequent horror of the aftermath is pinned on the witdrawal forced by Democartic defunding.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. I agree with what you say
but, this is putting political gain over the lives of American soldiers.

Also, we don't know for sure what would happen if the U.S. military pulled out - it hardly seems that things could be any worse than they are now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
70. Political parties will always put their own welfare first ...
... and there is something to be said for not saddling the Democratic Party with the Iraq disaster if it results in revitalized electoral success for Republicans.

Another mitigating factor is that the US is responsible for the disaster our government created in Iraq. Somewhere amid all the bad options is a plan for withdrawal that leaves Iraq with the best prospects for minimal post-occupation bloodshed. This would likely entail genuine diplomacy and a substantial change in US foreign policy in the region -- things that won't happen while Bush is president.

It will take a Democratic president to be responsible and engineer a best scenario withdrawal. Whether or not the potential for better long term results outweighs the lives lost waiting for a Dem president is a very difficult question that is further complicated by the possibility that a policy of responsible and rapid withdrawal might not be followed.

I can understand the desire to GET OUT ASAP based on the likelihood that no better results will be achieved -- only a steady drain of American blood and treasure as long as we stay. I'm pretty much there myself.

I'm just trying to understand the motivations of the national Democratic leadership and paint a scenario that makes sense. I think I'm correct about the aversion to the huge political risk associated with forcing a withdrawal by defunding, but I may be giving them too much credit in regards to intent and/or a realistic plan for responsible and rapid withdrawal under a Democratic president.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
30. Kucinich IS the only one doing what the majority claim they want done
So how can anybody here be supporting another candidate? All the others are compromises...Kucinich is the only one who gets it and I suggest that people supporting any other candidate have not studied Kucinich. Right under our noses is the best candidate and the only one who will bring any real change.

Why...How can you support candidates that don't stand for what you claim you want. Kucinich is the only candidate who gets it and knows what to do with it.
Kucinich/Edwards '08...the truth ticket...the only real change. Make it happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
31. You should disclose your relationship with the Kucinich campaign when writing about him
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Do you have evidence that he has one?
Is he a consultant? A paid consultant?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. He was Kucinich's press secretary in 2004 and did consulting work for the campaign in the Spring
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Earlier this year he was a part-time consultant. Doesn't make post any less true
"In April and May 2007, Swanson consulted part-time for Kucinich for President 2008."
http://www.davidswanson.org/?q=node/341
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Who was talking about the article?
I am talking about disclosure.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. www.davidswanson.org
http://www.davidswanson.org/

What's not disclosed?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. Is it so hard to include this at the bottom of his article?
David Swanson is the creator of ImpeachCheney.org, the Washington Director of Democrats.com and co-founder of the AfterDowningStreet.org coalition, a board member of Progressive Democrats of America, of the Backbone Campaign, and of Voters for Peace. He serves on a working group of United for Peace and Justice. He has worked as a newspaper reporter and as a communications director, with jobs including Press Secretary for Dennis Kucinich's 2004 presidential campaign. His website is www.davidswanson.org. In April and May 2007, Swanson consulted part-time for Kucinich for President 2008.

Disclosure shouldn't have to be hunted for.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
59. Not hard at all.
As your post demostrates.
But I'm still lost as to why the attack on the messenger, rather than the message.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. Really? It goes to ethical obligations. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. Obligations to whom?
80,000 dead civilians in Iraq and counting . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. Oh for pete's sake
first of all the number of civilians killed in Iraq is ten times higher than that. Secondly, if you don't understand why that isn't germane to this very specific issue, I can't help you. Lastly, it's an obligation to anyone who reads you. Really simple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #68
88. Thanks, but I'm not looking for any help
Indeed the numbers of Iraqi dead are certainly much higher than 80,000. I should have qualified the number as documented dead civilians, which are presently 74,730-81,652 per www.iraqbodycounty.org

While that may not be germane to making mountains out of molehills over perceived disclosure issues, it does relate directly to the subject of this thread before it was hijacked by disclosure nitpicking.

As for obligations to readers, did I break some rule by not disclosing my past support for Kucinich, or was that only Swanson? What of the disclosure you are obliged to provide me as a dear reader of your opinions?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #59
71. looks like you're in the minority here:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #71
84. no worries
I'm used to it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. Sorry. It's not entirely above board for a journalist not to make
such a disclosure. In fact, it's not above board in the slightest. There's not one reputable journalism school that would defend it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #44
57. No need to apologize. I simply didn't realize that blogs were held to such journalistic standards.
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. He was campaign press secretary four years ago
Fully disclosed on his web site

http://www.davidswanson.org/?q=node/7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. He also worked for the Kucinich campaign as a consultant just last spring
Edited on Thu Oct-11-07 03:06 PM by rinsd
He should have that disclosure at the bottom of any article he writes about the campaign or Kucinich.

Not buried in his biography on his website.

Seriously am I asking something so wrong as to have a former campaign operative identify himself as such on a message board when writing about the candidate he has worked for?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. It his blog which he occassionally cross posts here
His affiliations with Kucinich, Progressive Democrats of America, AfterDowningStreet.org, Impeach07.org etc. are well known to anyone vaguely paying attention to progressive activism.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Everyone knows?
Obviously not since I was asked for proof.

What is so hard about including this at the bottom of his article

"David Swanson is the creator of ImpeachCheney.org, the Washington Director of Democrats.com and co-founder of the AfterDowningStreet.org coalition, a board member of Progressive Democrats of America, of the Backbone Campaign, and of Voters for Peace. He serves on a working group of United for Peace and Justice. He has worked as a newspaper reporter and as a communications director, with jobs including Press Secretary for Dennis Kucinich's 2004 presidential campaign. His website is www.davidswanson.org. In April and May 2007, Swanson consulted part-time for Kucinich for President 2008."

Instead of making people hunt for it on his website.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. It is not an "article", it is a blog entry . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. That he took the time to crosspost on a public message board
Why is it so hard to simply include what I copied from his website?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Who said it was hard?
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. So why doesn't he do it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. why don't you ask him?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #64
91. Nevermind saw his reponse.
Edited on Thu Oct-11-07 07:15 PM by rinsd
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. It became an article when
he cross posted it here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. I wasn't aware of that transformative rule
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. Even without it,
it's ridiculous not to disclose. There was some issue with that with kos last time around, even though he did disclose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #69
86. He did disclose from my perspective, but apparently it was not as transparent as some would like
The URL to web site is disclosure enough for me
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #69
109. Hmm, I wonder what other people aren't disclosing their affiliations
:shrug:

I sense the presence of a lot of campaign workers and/or staffers and/or interns for various candidates and think tanks, but none of them have disclosed, as far as I know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. wrong. there aren't rules like that. You don't have to be
a fan of afterdowningstreet to be a progressive or liberal, and not putting that he worked for Kucinish as recently as a few months ago, at the bottom of a piece he writes praising kucinich to the skies, just looks like propaganda. Really, how hard is it for him to do that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. what rules?
What rules are there or aren't there regarding disclosing identity when cross-posting blog entry?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
76. When you post under your real name, disclose your net worth and the source of
your income, and tell us who you have contributed to, and what campaigns you have worked on/volunteered for then you might be able to have a leg to stand on, but probably not.

Good try, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #76
92. Swanson isn't looking for anonymity though.
Edited on Thu Oct-11-07 07:13 PM by rinsd
And since he has worked for the Kucinich campaign he should disclose it.

The rest of his personal info is irrelevant.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #92
102. He has and he does when he writes and sells his articles for paid publication.
But to post a blog piece on DU, that's a little ridiculas.

Especially when he doesn't work for Kucinich any longer.

I once read an op ed piece by Hillary and she totally forgot to disclose that she had been on Walmarts board.

In fact, right now on her website there is stuff about American jobs, but no Walmart disclosure, no disclosure about the law firm she worked at, no disclosures about where her contributions are coming from.

Should I raise a big fuss about it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
85. well
i've never seen anyone else have a "disclosure" on the bottom of their post here on DU. I'm pretty sure there are campaign "operatives"(wth is up with that term anyway?) here on DU who are being a lot more disruptive than the peace-loving Swanson/DK fanatic.

I'd love it if the paid staffers of the other candidates who are around would "disclose" themselves. I already knew David was a Kooch-head... but isn't he a former staffer?

:shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #85
98. He's a blogger/journalist
not merely a poster. That's the difference. And sorry, it's a significant one, that's gotten chewed around quite a bit. Blogger/journalists should disclose any relationship they have with any given candidate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #31
52. Yes
I used to work for him. My resume is at www.davidswanson.org
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. That should be revealed each time you post
a piece about Kucinich here. That's pretty basic. A post that reveals that late in a thread with a link, doesn't really suffice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #56
80. Ha ha. You post under the handle Cali, and your
panties are all in a wad about disclosure?

That's pretty funny...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #80
99. Why is that? I'm not a journalist or a blogger.
and Cali's the name of a niece- although it's spelled differently.

This is basic stuff. Really shouldn't be so difficult for you to grasp. And it's not like it hasn't been discussed extensively- stemming in part from kos supporting Dean in '04.

You seem a tad confused. Discernment and logic would help.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #52
95. Thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
79. Why does that make any difference?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #79
94. Is it something horrible to ask?
That a poster who posts under their real name disclose their past affiliations with their subject?



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #94
105. Why does it make any difference?
If that is going to be a rule here now, then there are a ton of DUers who need to fess up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #79
101. sad that you even have to ask. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #101
106. Sad that you have nothing better to do
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stimbox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
89. How about all you critics of David Swanson disclose your campaign affiliations?
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #89
97. Indeed!
That would be refreshing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #89
100. Sure. I have none.
I live way up in Vermont's Northeast Kingdom. I support none of the candidates. And I'm certainly not paid by any. And you won't find a single post of mine that contradicts that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pauldp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
33. K&R !!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BornagainDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
45. This is how Kucinich could secure the nomination. Just keep blasting
away at the rest of the pack for their duplicity while reiterating that he had it right all along. K&R!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. He has a 2% share of the electorate.
He's going to have to do a bit more than blasting away.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
november3rd Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
63. You're right, David
You have been all along. This is the only position that ever had a chance to end the war this decade--if not in our lifetimes.

Pundits like Randi Rhodes keep apologizing for the Democratic senators who wring their hands and cry, "sixty votes!"

Nobody is fooled by that baloney.

Harry Reid could end the war, or any Senator who wants to filibuster the appropriations bill, for that matter.

Let the Republicans get the 60 votes to end cloture.

Supporting a fake foreign policy is not supporting the troops, whoever they are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
72. K & R
Sad to see the haters out in force. Keep speaking truth. And thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
73. Americans need to decide if they want gas for their SUV's or us out of Iraq...
and soon ...Iran. This Is all about oil. We are at peak oil right now and it's going to crush our economy unless we take other countries oil. They won't tell you about the oil crisis because they know it will cause a panic. If you don't believe we are about to run out of the easy to get oil then you need to Google "peak oil" and do some reading. A lot of these asscarrots in our government already know about the oil crisis and that's why they are not going to do squat about Iraq. I believe even the Chimp knows about the peak oil crisis that is looming. Don't get me wrong ...I still hate that mother fuckers guts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Progressive Friend Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
74. K&R --- Kucinich 2008!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
75. Nicely done, David. K&R
Your contributions here are appreciated. Keep up the good work.

:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #75
78. these are the times
that try men's and women's postmodern equivalent of souls
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. Thank you David
for your tireless efforts to keep us informed on impeachment. And frankly, I don't give a shit who you worked for. I appreciate your intellect and your passion for making our elected reps uphold our constitution.

I also love your website. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
82. K&R! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bennyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
103. I have a liberal friend that has never heard of DK!
Until Sunday that is. he is a working guy, very liberal in his thinking but doesn't put much time into politics. Works, comes home, drinks a couple of beers and goes to bed. Watches The news on networ TV.

I am guessing he is th rule and not the exception.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
5X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
104. This is the kind of thing that should be at the top of the greatest page,
not some of the other crap that makes it there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
111. bvar22 is making a public disclosure!!!!
I've been hiding it all these years at DU.

It was such a little thing at first, but it all added up....and now I feel so guilty, so dirty.
The DU Thread Police made it so clear upthread that I have committed an awful sin. I have maliciously mislead DU and its members. I have tried to sway opinions and advance my agenda all the while hiding my awful secret.

HERE IT IS:
In 2002, I volunteered for the Wellstone Campaign.

I apologize to all DUers for hiding my ties to the Wellstone Campaign, and beg forgiveness.
I am no longer affiliated with the Wellstone Campaign, but the DU Thread Police have made it clear that it makes no difference, so I offer the above disclosure, and will include that disclosure in each and every post.

Mea Maxima Culpa!


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC