philosophical: a problem with an exclusively two party system

[Lerkfish]

I certainly see a lot threads telling us to shut up and vote for democrats that are against our interests. And I see threads saying that if their interests are not addressed, they will stay home and not vote.

I think this is the eventual problem with an exclusively two-party system. We have not always had just two parties. There were Whigs, Populists, etc. and the support for the candidate used to mean support for the platform. only in recent history has this country become recalcitrant about two major parties

Now, it used to be that was fine because the parties were in direct opposition.

but things are different now. Now, it becomes this abstract "party loyalty" question instead of a platform question. I'm sorry it ever turned into that, because as we see, if BOTH parties are pro-war, our choice is a measly excercise to determine who's slightly LESS war-like than the other. We SHOULD be able to have people vote AGAINST the war instead of settling for the lesser of two evils.

As we've seen, the mechanism of checks and balances can be broken with enough force or enough coercion. without that mechanism, the ONLY HOPE we have is for the parties to oppose each other. But that's a hope based on something we don't control. We vote, but increasingly the Karl Roves and the Al Froms and whoever determine policy APART from the voters, and often in direct opposition to the voters.

Its because party has become more important than country.

my topic today is a hopefully lively discussion about what we can do to make the current system work better, or ways to change the current system to serve voters better.

thanks.

[sniffa]

1. k&r

aLthough i never understand the "stay home and not vote" crowd. i vote every time, even it means handing in a bLank baLLot. the Least i couLd do is take 10 minutes out of my day every 2 years to have my name checked of the roLL caLL.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Hey, where's your flag pin? Yeah, uber party loyalty, uber partiotism. I hate the

way the country is right now.

As always, I think these election reforms might help:
http://www.hostdiva.com/liberalchristians/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=116&Itemid=29&limit=1&limitstart=1

[PATRICK]

3. Any institution

left to the devices of entrenched leadership of any moral stripe can desert its legitimate service mandate and make everything a gilded lie. The Dem party was deep into such moral compromises during the Vietnam debacle even if Nixon came to "own" it. The loyal GOP in the localities are totally out of touch with the bald realities of GOP crime dominance at the top. This situation has only gotten worse, thanks in part to "middle road" mother hens trying to tent the contradictions between simple right and wrong and reality versus petty side-trips into single issues and pork.

No one is asking DU members to put on the ruffled uniforms take up the rusty muskets and march under embarrassing banners into machine guns. What we should be doing is transforming the party by whatever power, presence and participation we can. An active Dem party moving toward liberty and justice and reform or bust. No single candidate of any office or stature is greater than the rabble in arms itself. We must work to put up better candidates and make the efforts to merit the office. Centrist Dems might truly chortle at our submission to their Third Way to miasma and it makes no difference to what we are actually fighting for. People in Latin America supported doctrinal socialists or even Communists in order to fight for the simpler things they definitely desire. The whole wave is greater than its frothy leadership crest. The populist wave defines the leader, no matter what appearances might say. Our task is more relevant than the semi-fake election choice(there is no real choice, just a battle for democracy itself, for a chance at hope). Our task is always greater than whatever campaign we plug into to achieve
a future of hope. Bill Clinton was nothing in himself without that kind of support and no one else short of a dictator backed by guns can mean anything more than people voting for what they strongly want.

[CK_John]

4. It's simple we don't understand government or economics n/t