"Did You See The Man You Voted Against In 2000 Won The Nobel Prize"?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

My former business partner and friend called me up to discuss a project we're working on... I said to him "did you know the guy you voted against in 2000 won the Nobel Prize?"...He was not pleased to be reminded of that... He had voted for Nader because he thought there was no difference between Gore and Bush* despite myriad attempts on my part to disabuse him of that notion...

He doesn't feel that way anymore...

[otohara]

1. I Thought About Calling

an old friend who married a republican and turned into a republican and voted for the evil spawn of GHWB and rubbing it in, but we no longer speak because of 2000.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. I Used To Get In Passionate Discussions Trying To Switch My Nader Friends To Gore

But people are fixed in their beliefs...

[ronnykmarshall]

2. Good for you ..

I'd like to rub that in the face of the asshole Ralphette that was harassing me and other in 2000 when we were waiting to get into a Gore rally in LA.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. He Was Pissed When I Reminded Him..

I used to remind him of that a lot more during the Florida recount since we are Floridians...

535 vote separated Bush* from Gore despite all the GOP shenanigans... Nader got 97,000 votes...Nader voters were surveyed...Out of every four Nader voters, two would have voted for Gore, one would have voted for Bush*, and one would have stayed home...The math is the math...

[MadHound]

11. Got a link for that little stat?

'Cause from the man who should know, Al From, former DLC head, Nader actually helped the Gore race. "The assertion that Nader's marginal vote hurt Gore is not borne out by polling data. When exit pollers asked voters how they would have voted in a two-way race, Bush actually won by a point. That was better than he did with Nader in the race." <http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=127&subid=179&contentid=2919>

Then there's the fact that in the end, when the votes were all counted, Gore actually won in Florida. In addition, Greg Palast handed Gore the entire Votescam scandal to Gore and his team, early in the recount process, yet Gore sat on it. Now think of this, you're in a contested race, with the presidency on the line, and a reputable reporter hands you evidence of voter disenfranchisement so great that it would banish your opponent to the political wilderness forever. In addition, as VP, you are sworn to uphold the Constitution. What would you do? Well, Gore did nothing.

Oh, and don't forget the little matter of the Supreme Court decision.

It utterly amazes me how some people will deny facts, deny the evidence put before them, all in order to live in some fantasy land so that they can avoid confronting serious problems and making tough decisions. They want to blame everybody but the one who deserves it. Geez.

[loudsue]

13. You're quoting DLCers about how Nader "helped" Gore?

Al From, and the entire DLC are REPUBLICAN INFILTRATORS INTO THE DEM PARTY. Nothing more than that. So if you're quoting republicans about how Nader helped Gore, you're just following their party's line.

The election was STOLEN from Al Gore.

[MadHound]

14. Well, since Gore was a DLC man, at least at the time

One would assume that the DLC would take every excuse to blame everybody else but Gore, including Nader. The fact that they didn't says a lot about the situation.

And yes, I realize that the election was stolen from Gore, you don't have to shout it. However Gore did not help his own cause very much. I already mentioned the Votescam scandal that Palast handed to the Gore campaign on a silver platter. You should also know that with his pro off-shore drilling position in Florida, Gore pissed off 600,000 registered Democrats and self described liberals to the point where they either didn't vote, or voted for Bush. 600,000 votes is a lot to piss away all to please your corporate masters at BP(that's from Palast's bood "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" I suggest you read it sometime).

Sorry, Gore may be a great guy now, but he was a corporate whore during the '00 election and ran a piss poor campaign. Deal with it.

[defendandprotect]

15. Re Palast and the voting scandals . . . I don't think he goes back as far as VOTESCAM . . .

And this is something I've been trying to bring to the attention of DUers . . .

Vote stealing by computer hasn't only been going on since 2000 . ..

It's been going on since at least the late 1960's . . .

and my thread on VOTESCAM is specifically related to Jim + Ken Collier, two journalists and brothers
who investigated the computer "hackings" which took place over 25 years before they wrote their book in 1992.

So -- yes we have had really out in the open steals -- like 2000 and 2004 --
set off by their GOP fascist rally outside of Miami-Dade Election HQs to stop the vote counting --

but there are three decades of computer steals that we have to get into our heads and understand.


EDITED to add the link to the VOTESCAM - "The Stealing of America" book on line --
by Jim + Ken Collier, pub. 1992/paperback

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

[MadHound]

17. My bad, I think that Palast, or some writer that I've now forgotten,

Referred to the voter disenfranchisement in '00 as Votescam.

[defendandprotect]

19. Nothing wrong -- but please read my comments . .. repeated here ---

And this is something I've been trying to bring to the attention of DUers . . .

Vote stealing by computer hasn't only been going on since 2000 . ..

It's been going on since at least the late 1960's . . .

and my thread on VOTESCAM is specifically related to Jim + Ken Collier, two journalists and brothers
who investigated the computer "hackings" which took place over 25 years before they wrote their book in 1992.

So -- yes we have had really out in the open steals -- like 2000 and 2004 --
set off by their GOP fascist rally outside of Miami-Dade Election HQs to stop the vote counting --

but there are three decades of computer steals that we have to get into our heads and understand.


EDITED to add the link to the VOTESCAM - "The Stealing of America" book on line --
by Jim + Ken Collier, pub. 1992/paperback

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

[defendandprotect]

16. Of course, the election was STOLEN from Gore -- and DLC did nothing ---

Neither did Gore, actually. He did what the Establishment wanted him to do.
Play the game and let Bush have it.

Gore is establishment and DLC --

Nader has been scapegoated to keep your attention off what really happened ---

The election was stolen . . . and confirmed by the corrupt Gang of 5 on the Supreme Court --

Many Americans would prefer not to see that reality ---

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. You Can Massage The Numbers To You Get Them To Say Anything You Want

Anybody that believes that a Nader voter wasn't more likely to vote for Gore over Bush*, if Nader wasn't on the ballot isn't worth arguing with...

You'll only get a headache...

Sometimes common sense is just that...

[MadHound]

27. You are so amusing, and so predictable

When stats and polls come out around here, if they favor Hillary, they're golden. But if they say something that you don't like, find uncomfortable, even if it is done by the experts in the field, you think that they're bogus.

Geez, how can you live and function with such a disconnect? That might be where your headache is coming from.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. You Are Comparing Apples And Oranges...

1) I am looking at literally dozens and dozens of polls and they all suggest essentially the same thing,and that is Ms. Clinton has a commanding lead...Even if all the polls were flawed it's mathematically impossible they would all be flawed in the same direction... The results would be random...


2)Nader got 97,000 votes in Florida... That's a fact... Intuitively, it's impossible for me to believe that if Nader wasn't on the ballot all 97.000 of those people would have stayed home or Bush* would have got more of those votes than Gore...


My buddy shows remorse every day of his life for voting for Nader...He has a bumper sticker with a yellow ribbon and picture of Bush*...It says having a yellow ribbon doesn't make up for voting for Bush*...

He has remorse for voting for Mr. Nader. Do you?


And if you didn't vote for Mr. Nader I apologize...

[MadHound]

42. I just love how you work

Rationalize, innuendo, selective reality, and if someone disagrees with you, and dares to present the truth, well then in your mind they are Nader supporters, since they dare to criticize the Almighty Dems:eyes:

Well, that about says it all. You don't want to deal with reality, and if somebody tries to thrust reality upon you, you will actively fight it off.

No, I didn't vote Nader, but hey, that's what you get when you ass u me.

Let me know when you wish to rejoin reality and want to deal with facts in an objective way.

[JeanGrey]

21. Could you give me a link to something that shows that

Gore actually won Florida? I've been bitching at a friend about this but she demands "proof".

[Cyrano]

36. Google Greg Palast 2000 election. He's the "go-to" guy who publishes provable facts.

[JeanGrey]

39. Thanks!!

[doublethink]

4. Interesting ......

My mind is clicking off on a thought. Americans (like what's the latest figure 70 to 75%) want out of Iraq. I think an overwhelming majority really really really want PEACE. And whatever the connotation 'The Nobel Peace Prize' .... brings into the collective mind of our uninformed citizenry ....

Well simply put if Al Gore decides to make a run in 2008. Winning "The Nobel Peace Prize" couldn't hurt his chances ya think? ;)

note: I'm 50/50 thinking he'd take a shot at the Presidency again, who knows but Al? Peace.

note #2: Yea he'd get my vote, hands down.

[jeff30997]

5. Did you know that...

Nobel was a bomb maker and a war profiter ?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. He Invented Dynamite I Believe

eom

[ronnykmarshall]

8. Good

He can therefore blow it out his ass.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Do you realize that dynamite has many useful functions?

Like digging mines and building roads?

[ronnykmarshall]

22. Yeah, tell that to Wile E. Coyote!

All that ACME crap didn't help him catch the Roadrunner, now did it?

Dynamite - Pfft! Useless!

[TwilightZone]

9. Bush's approval ratings are still in the 30s, because 30% of Americans still refuse...

to admit that they were wrong. At least your former business partner has (somewhat) seen the light.

[John Q. Citizen]

10. What state does your former business partner live in?

[bahrbearian]

18. Unless he lived in Florida ,it doesn't Matter.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. We Both Live In Seminole County, Florida

eom

[LWolf]

20. Voting for someone else is not voting "against" anyone.

I voted for Gore in 2000, and I don't blame Nader voters for their vote, or for the selection.

I know that it wasn't people participating in the democratic process that lost that election for Gore, but election fraud.

I'll leave the blame squarely where it belongs: on corrupt party politics.

[ejbr]

32. However...

one must wonder how many Nader voters regret being party to allowing Bush to get into office. Fraud was definitely a major part of the problem, but convincing enough Nader voters that Bush and Gore were light years apart would have most certainly have prevented this fiasco.

[LWolf]

35. Perhaps.

It's still not the prime reason for the disaster, and I think obsessing over Nader voters as the villains is dishonest.

I'm not referring to you with that remark, btw. I hope you can see beyond the Nader wars to realize that with the focus on Nader, it's not on election fraud. It doesn't matter who the 3rd party or independent candidate of the moment is; if people are too busy hating him/her, or his/her supporters, they aren't confronting and eliminating election fraud.

[ejbr]

37. True

No, I did not take your comments personally. However, I must admit that you did bring the matter into perspective for me, considering a person's right to vote for whomever they want versus election fraud. Point taken.

[ProudDad]

23. Having the Presidency stolen from him

might have been a wonderful thing -- for him...

He's a MUCH better human being now than he would have been after 6 years in that corrupting office...

[GreenTea]

24. Well at least he's liberal and not a fucking moderate and didn't vote for Bush!

[ejbr]

31. Although a salient point,

it still didn't help to prevent Bush from entering the White House, killing thousands, debasing our constitution and making more enemies around the world. Voting for Nader instead of Gore was an "es tu Brutus?" moment for progressives.

Update:
Another poster helped me to understand that election fraud should be the ultimate blame to the Bush White House, considering we are comparing the right to vote for whomever you want vs. illegality.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. He Despises Bush*

eom

[incapsulated]

28. Ha

I guess all you have to do is win the Noble Peace Prize to shut some people up, eh?

Man.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. No...

He regretted his vote as soon as he saw Bush* won...

He has had a strange political journey from College Republican (Blech) in the 80's to a Naderite to a hard core economic populist...

Me, I have always been a garden variety , yellow dog Democrat...

[incapsulated]

34. Ah, so he was clueless

Really, I can't excuse it, unless he was in a state where his vote didn't matter.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. Incapsulated, We Are In Florida

Incapsulated, I begged him to vote for Gore to no avail, as I begged others...

Ah, I rather look forward than back...

[incapsulated]

41. Jebus

:(

Well, he should feel bad, then. Very.

[depakid]

38. Gore's policies were equated with Clinton's in 2000

and indeed, many were. What your associate didn't care for were those precisely policies- the far right enabling- aka the Clinton record.

Being an intelligent and insightful man, Gore has grown over the ears to be far closer to progressives on many issues- while my bet is that Clinton's policies are still basically reflected in the record of the previous administration.

A lot of people aren't going to vote for Clinton this time around, either- though maybe not as many will vote Green or independent- the Clinton administrations failings are not as fresh in most peoples' minds, though my bet is that all too many may just stay home.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. I Don't Think His Decision Making Process Was That Layered

He saw it as a meaningless protest vote based on the not deeply investigation presumption that the Dems and Reps are similar without investigating it much further...