Florida Dems cried "disenfranchisement" too often, now having to back pedal.

[madfloridian]

They cried wolf so often by saying that Howard Dean and the DNC were not going to allow their votes to count...that now the first letter appears from a county chairwoman. Guess the early on propaganda sort of backfired.

Primary Votes Will Be Counted

From the sheer volume of calls I have been receiving, there is a large number of Democratic voters who believe that their votes will not count in the Jan. 29 primary. It is easy to see how they could think this if they are paying attention to the highly inflammatory rhetoric covered in the news.

The truth is that every vote will count Jan. 29. The ballots will all be counted and the results reported. Whoever wins the Florida Democratic primary will get a huge bump in the polls for the following Tuesday when many other states vote.

Thanks, Ms Simmons for clarifying that.

Here are some of the early statements to the media, which of course they cheerfully went along with. No media here has been honest and open about it at all.

Nelson and others accuse the DNC of "disenfranchisement".

Bill Nelson's words:

"We are quite concerned that Florida Democrats are going to lose their right to vote," Nelson said "And of all states, we have the sensitivity of this because of what we have gone through.

Let's see, if a senator tells you that you might believe it. Trouble is, now it is being left to the county chairs to speak up and say no one is being disenfranchised.

Here is one of Debbie Wasserman Schultz's statements:

Florida Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz was also on the conference call and said, "We should not be disenfranchising voters based on arcane political party rules and people stamping their foot and insisting on getting their way instead of making sure that we can move forward with an election that has a united party in one of the most important states in the country."

Bill Nelson uses the words "disenfranchisement on a massive scale" in his lawsuit, Nelson v Dean, filed this month.

WASHINGTON -Sen. Bill Nelson followed through on his threat to sue his own party, taking the Democratic National Committee to court today over his state’s right to help pick a presidential candidate.

In a lawsuit filed in federal court in Tallahassee, Nelson accuses the Democratic National Committee and its chief, Howard Dean, of voter ``disenfranchisement on a massive scale'' for stripping Florida of its 210 delegates to the national convention next summer.

Bill Nelson sues his own party

In a rather sadly ironic and significant gesture...Bill Nelson and Alcee Hastings hire Kendall Coffey to sue the DNC and Howard Dean for "disenfranchisement on a massive scale".

Florida Dems pick Kendall Coffey to challenge the DNC..."Echoes of 2000"

Nelson said the suit raises questions involving due process, equal protection, freedom of speech and the Voting Rights Act. Because the state Legislature voted to move the primary, Nelson said he believes it’s unconstitutional for the DNC to fail to recognize it.

"I believe the case law in our complaint will show that that supersedes the right of the party to dictate who does what," Nelson told Buzz this afternoon.

So, I really do thank Ms Simmons for her letter to the editor today. Although she is one who wrote an email hinting that people should go to the DNC contribution site and "tell them what you think"...numbers listed....she appears to be one of the ones who sees the harm done by the propaganda.

[EST]

1. Looks like democratic members are just as big liars and

mis-direction artists as are the republicans. Who knew?

[Dr.Phool]

2. Just like the e-mail Thurman sent out last year.

Taking people to a site that told almost everyone that their vote in the November election wasn't counted.

Turns out that the FDP had the incorrect software, and she blew all the credibility those of us who were working on election reform and voting machine problems had.

[madfloridian]

3. I don't remember that.

After the November election? Maybe I got it and did not pay proper attention.

What site was it she linked to? Do you remember?

Our county chairs here sure do some odd things. At least Simmons realized she needed to tell people their vote counted.

Wonder if Ms Morano in Pasco is still chasing John Russell away from fundraisers?

Florida county chair won't let candidate into county fundraiser...tells him not to run again.

[Dr.Phool]

9. Oh yeah. There's a lot going on.

A lot of e-mails and stuff flying around. I'll forward a few your way later. I'm sure you know some of the people involved.

[madfloridian]

23. I will be waiting for them. We need to stay on top of things.

Thanks.

[madfloridian]

4. Nelson's lawsuit also accuses Crist of moving the primary up.

And the court will just have look at the vote of 115 to 1 to see that is just wrong.

In their lawsuit, Florida Democrats charge that the national party's punishment would cause the "wholesale disenfranchisement" of four million Democrats registered to vote in the state, especially black voters who massively support Democratic candidates.

The state Democrats also note the "monumental irony" of their battle with the DNC.

In 2000, Democratic candidate Al Gore lost the US presidential election to Bush after a battle over whether to recount Florida votes reached the US Supreme Court, which ruled against Gore, handing the presidency to Bush.

The lawsuit also accuses Florida Governor Charlie Crist, a Republican, of deliberately moving the primaries from March to January after Democratic leaders firmly reiterated that they would punish Democrats who break party rules.

Democrats face new election nightmare in Florida

It is very obvious in just looking at the vote and the floor statements that the Democrats went right along.

Both Florida parties did it for "relevance."

House Republicans and Democrats passed the earlier primary bill (HB 537) by a 115-1 vote - a challenge to the national parties that are wielding threats in an attempt to prevent a nationwide race for earlier and earlier primaries.

.."Florida lawmakers believe the state's demographic and political diversity merit a greater say in the selection of nominees. They're tired of candidates treating the fourth-largest state as a fundraising ATM, only to take the money to campaign in small states like Iowa and New Hampshire. And they say they are willing to call the bluffs of the national parties, which have threatened to take away delegates the state parties send to the nominating conventions. National Democratic Party rules could even punish candidates who campaign in states that move their primaries earlier than Feb. 5 by essentially not recognizing the state's delegates.

Wonder who is funding these lawsuits?

[madfloridian]

5. I just realized Nelson might not like Nancy Simmons saying the votes count.

Because that is the basis of his lawsuit which he will take all the way to the Supreme Court if need be. He is a very angry man. He will not back down. He has caused great dissension in Florida, and he is determined to win this at all costs. He is being aided by Wasserman Schultz and Alcee Hastings, who are Hillary's campaign chairs here in Florida. They are equally angry.

Portrait of a very very angry Bill Nelson

He has put the party here on the spot. Karen Thurman will NOT stand up to him...no one stands up to him because he does not give a damn about Democrats. He really does not.

I don't think I really understood just how angry this has made me. It has tired hubby and me emotionally to see it. We have a couple of friends trying to keep working with the party here, but we just can't. They write us all this stuff trying to excuse Bill Nelson's actions and the party's actions.

All we see is that in a crucial election they joined with Michigan to divide the party. Granholm is endorsing Hillary, and Debbie Dingell who is involved with Levin is Hillary's manager there.

It all seems too much to take in, why it was done. In the back of my mind sometimes I think I know. But no one really says it, it is not to be spoken of.

Why? Because we must win at all costs as usual. We will let Bush attack Iran rather than risk looking weak on national security.

It is all very sad. I see no winners emerging.

Hillsborough DEC chair says Dean not welcome in Florida. Laughs at him.

[William769]

6. It's going to count like it did in 2000.

[madfloridian]

7. The sad part is that I really don't care that much this time.

I want to know where all the money is coming from for the two lawsuits so far. Party funds, private funds? We will never know. I hear Coffey is working for free.

I take this whole thing very personally.

[madfloridian]

8. Post at Kos shows that all the lawsuits and propaganda won't dim Dean's legacy

of building a movement of people who keep working.

http://www.dailykos.com/hotlist/add/2007/10/17/1392/4137/displaystory//

Andrew C. White was an active Deaniac. Now he is running for office.

My Dear Friends,

I am running for the office of Town Supervisor in the town of Stephentown, Rensselaer County, NY.

It's all Howard Dean's fault.

Here we are three and a half years later and we are preparing to turn control of ostensibly solid republican Stephentown over to Democrats. Good things start with just those first few steps.

We have a blog web site for the Stephentown Democratic Committee (contributions gratefully accepted).

And I've just created a candidate page over at DFA-Link.

There have thousands like Andrew C. White. Not all the same, different philosophies.

So the movement ain't over. Bring on all the lawsuits you wish. Some things have simply become forces of nature that can't be stopped.

[Apollo11]

10. So will Florida send delegates to the Democratic National Convention or not?

It seems to me that if you're not electing delegates who are going to be counted towards deciding who will be the nominee - then the votes are NOT counted.

At least not like the votes of people in other States.

Someone help me out here? What are the facts? :eyes:

[LiberalFighter]

13. Depending on the results of the other states it may or may not matter.

And it may be decided by the other state delegates that can vote whether Florida's delegates get seated too.

I don't know the rules that Florida uses for Presidential.

A voter probably has to be registered as a Democrat. Republicans don't get to vote in the Democratic primary. Independents don't get to vote. Other parties don't get to vote. At least they shouldn't be able to.

[cobalt1999]

15. You are correct.

Madfloridian is spinning this a bit.

The delegates will not be seated, so, in effect, Florida is disenfranchised.

However, the delegates are meaningless if you want to influence the primary race. Influence comes from position, the reporting of results, and the impact it has on the candidates.

So, Florida is disenfranchised, but will still have a huge influence. Not a bad deal considering we've never had any influence in the past.

[Apollo11]

16. That's like saying a pre-season game can "influence" which teams will reach the play-offs.

The kind of "influence" you are talking about is no different from a straw poll on Daily Kos.

Surely it's all about which candidate has the most delegates at the Convention in Denver.

Think back to the primaries in 1984, 1988 and 1992.

When it's a close race, every State counts in large amounts.

[cobalt1999]

18. Not a good analogy

Did Dean's campaign take a hit because of the puny number of Iowa delegates or because of how Iowans voted and how that was covered by the media?

Delegates counts don't have the influence position in the primary calendar does, if it did, then states would have jumped at the DNC offer of more delegates for later dates. (If you don't remember, no state took that offer up).

[sybylla]

19. Not sure that's a fair assessment

There are different kinds of delegates.

I confess that I don't have the exact details on this situation, but states are given a set of delegates to the convention that they will have no matter what - these seats are made up of superdelegates, elected DNC representatives, elected Dems and other party big shots. As far as I can tell, Florida won't lose these delegates.

What the DNC has said they will lose is the delegates based on balloting. These are delegates elected by local and regional caucuses in April and May who campaign to represent the primary electors on the floor of the convention. Because they are representing the electors, they are apportioned among the candidates receiving the most votes. The DNC sets all the rules for this and they get pretty complicated so I'm not going to go into that.

As I said, it has been my understanding that Florida's non-primary based delegates will still be seated.

Suffice it to say it is unfair to accuse madfloridian of spin.

[William769]

20. No delegates will be seated, if you have information to the contrary, I would love to see it.

[cobalt1999]

25. I think it's fair.

No one is backpedaling or saying Florida won't be disenfranchised, like madfloridian is claiming.

The party is clarifying that although we won't have delegates, we will still have a major influence on the primary race.

Madfloridian is a bit out of touch with the average democrat in Florida and assumes it's because of "propaganda". It's not. We really are sick of not getting any say so in the process. 2004 was the breaking point, when we had one choice left on the ballot. Madfloridian seems to think this is a conspiracy against Dean and the DNC, when it's really about voter anger. That's the spin.

[madfloridian]

17. Florida knew the rules and broke them.

And flaunted their rule-breaking in Dean's face and the DNC's face. They did it deliberately and with planning ahead of time.

They are using taunts and lawsuits to affect the fundraising of the DNC.

I have been writing about it for ages in my journal. The media took the state party's word and was too lazy to investigate.

Florida deliberately broke the rules, they knew the delegates would not count.

[Karenina]

21. What percentage of the voters ChoicePoint scrubbed

in 2000 have had their right to vote restored? Is anyone in your neck of the woods on that?

[madfloridian]

22. Crist has restored a lot of rights to many who were scrubbed.

Actually what Choice Point did has nothing to do with deliberately breaking the rules like Florida did and thumbing your nose at the national party.

And to top it off...suing them.

[Karenina]

24. I knew the two weren't related

but you're dealing with SO MUCH down there bits get lost in the whirlwind. Good on you, Madfloridian, I always appreciate your posts.

[LiberalFighter]

11. Florida stats

14,183,782 --- 2004 Voting Age Population
4,829,270 --- Turnout (40.3%)

Another source
4,865,283 -- Election Day
1,352,447 -- Absentee Ballots
1,428,362 -- Early Voting

27,742 -- Provisional Ballots Cast
10,007 -- Provisional Ballots Counted


Voting Age Population is not the same as Registered Voters. I believe that Florida's website uses Registered Voters as the basis for their percentage below.

2004
20% Presidential Preference Primary
74% General Election

753,762 -- Democratic Presidential Primary
000,000 -- Republican Presidential Primary

Voter Registration by Party 2004
3,916,207 -- Democrat
3,586,944 -- Republican

----
In 2004, 753,762 Floridians voted in the Presidential Primary out of 14,183,782 residents of voting age. That is 5.31%. And these Florida Democrats are concerned about disenfranchisement? Based on the voter registration in 2004 the turnout should be 27.6% instead of 5.31% if they are concerned about disenfranchisement.

[cobalt1999]

12. " That is 5.31%. And these Florida Democrats are concerned about disenfranchisement? "

To address that point, there was only one democratic candidate still running by the time of the 2004 primary in Florida. ONE. Why go vote when the only choice was Kerry?

The numbers will be much higher this time.

[Apollo11]

14. Good point

In America, every citizen has (or should have) the right to vote OR to not vote.

Why should my right to vote (and to have my vote count) depend on how many other people decide to exercise their right to vote? :eyes:

In some countries (like Belgium) you are legally obliged to vote. And you can get fined if you fail to show up. OK so in these countries election day is a public holiday or on the weekend.