Joe Cannon: "If Gore runs, how long before you hate him?"

[Perry Logan]

"Suppose jumps in. How many days, how many minutes would pass before the progressive purists screech and scowl and declare Al Gore to be The New Pelosi? For example, take a look at this vicious tirade against Hillary Clinton's NAFTA stance. I happen to think that NAFTA was a mistake. But it was Gore, not Hillary, who turned the country around on the issue by debating Ross Perot on national television. I can support a candidate even if I disagree with him on an important issue. Purists cannot.
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2007/10/if-he-runs-how-long-before-you-hate-him.html

Well Joe...I'm guessing five minutes before progressives would be gnashing their teeth and calling Al a secret neocon and a corporate sellout and--because we're at DU--a craven coward. What can you do with people who just don't understand politics?

[MonkeyFunk]

1. I agree

I just don't understand the far-left affection for Gore. He was a very moderate, centrist, DLC Senator.

His advantage is that he hasn't to cast a vote in 15 years, so people can project whatever view they want onto him. If he'd been in the Senate all this time, he'd probably be as reviled as most other "corporatist" dems are here.

[mtnsnake]

3. Spot on. nt

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

5. That's The Whole Point!

He hasn't been there for 15 Years. He DOESN'T have that same attitude.

HE'S BEEN THE FRICKIN' VICE PRESIDENT FOR 8 YEARS!

He has been in the Oval Office, and he's been on his own for 8 years. He knows better than anyone, what is right, and what is wrong.

[MonkeyFunk]

44. And if he were a candidate

and was forced to start laying out his positions, much of his support here would dry up.

He's MUCH closer, politically, to Clinton than to, say, Kucinich.

The notion that the centrist, DLC Senator has suddenly become a raving lefty is just unfounded.

[ben_meyers]

48. The most popular quarterback on the team

is the one holding the clipboard.

[TwilightZone]

2. It would be interesting to see how long the honeymoon would last.

Eventually, I'm sure that the people who think George McGovern and John Lewis are neo-con corporatists would turn on Mr. Gore, as well.

[ronnykmarshall]

7. 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, 27 mins and 08 seconds

Then the shit will fly.

[TwilightZone]

10. That's probably not a bad estimate.

I thought that it might last until the first NAFTA comment.

[harun]

4. Until he is ahead of Hillary in the poll's, then it would be open season (n/t)

[NYCGirl]

6. Unless you've been on a desert island for the past couple of years, you'd realize

that there are already a LARGE number of people who hate Al Gore. He's not doing what he is to win a popularity contest.

[malaise]

16. Bingo n/t

[incapsulated]

8. I wish I could recommned this 20 times

The same purists, in fact, voted for Nader when Gore was, you know, just another DLC politician.

It's easy to be a hero of the left when you aren't begging for votes.

[TwilightZone]

11. I'll add one. 19 to go!

I agree with you completely. It's kind of funny how some have done an apparent 180, from Gore = Bush to Gore is the savior of the party.

[Adelante]

9. Maybe a week

Then the usual shit will hit the usual fan.

[DeepModem Mom]

12. K&R

[oregonjen]

13. Gore has done something the other candidates have not

He has spoken about the current Admin and the crap they have pulled. He's written a scathing book "The Assault On Reason" in which he point by point, writes about what has happened since Bush was annointed President. He has had the courage to speak out against this admin and what they have done. He has seen right through the media and called them on it. Should he run, I feel he would speak and fight for us and not back down like the other dems have done.

[incapsulated]

19. And he did all those things while out of office

And didn't need to appeal to the majority of people or special interest groups or local politics so they would vote for him or support his campaign.

Look at his career in the Senate and as a Vice President, that is Al Gore, politician and not Al Gore, private citizen. And he would become a politician again the moment he announced he was running. He can't win on the liberal internet vote.

Sure, he could run on everything he has said and done as a private citizen. It would also severely marginalize him because most people are not breathless Gore fans who love him because of his environmental work or his anti-war speeches or his book. And they will remember the Al Gore of 2000, that is going to be were he starts for most people.

[oregonjen]

23. Perhaps he has grown a spine being out of politcs

and would be a better politician now. We don't know how he would be in the political arena now, but the fact that he has accomplished so much, he could bring our country into a whole new era.

[incapsulated]

29. I think he would be different now

He couldn't deny who he has been the past eight years even if he wanted to.

The point of the OP though, is, that he couldn't get elected on such a vague thing as "I'm different now" either. He would have to take real positions on a host of issues just like everyone else. And eventually, he would piss off people who support him now because he cannot be a perfect projection of themselves. Hell, if they want that, Dennis is running and probably comes close. He also doesn't have a chance.

[Control-Z]

40. You know,

that it not necessarily true. I live in a red county. Actually, Orange County, and I strike up conversation now and again, when the opportunity presents itself, in a public place or at work, with strangers or less than good acquaintances, about Al Gore. I've been doing so for the past few years and these people, every one of them, mostly non political types and presumably mostly conservative have had not only good things to say about him but respect and trust that he would be a great president.

[incapsulated]

43. I'm not doubting your experience

But I really can't take personal anecdotal evidence as meaning much.

According to DU, no one they know is for Hillary.

A lot of people love Carter now, as a private citizen. They couldn't stand him as president and I'm talking about his own party now, who stabbed him in the back.

[creeksneakers2]

14. The fringe already dumped Gore back in 2000

The only reason I can remember them giving was that the Democratic Party took donations from corporations, and Gore was a Democrat, so Gore was equally guilty. Those conditions would still hold now.

[Hydra]

15. He's not beholden to the corps in the same way most of the others are

Having gained most of his vote based on the vote he won in 2000.

Still, if you don't want him to run, just say so. He'd rather know in advance, I think.

[incapsulated]

24. Because he is a private citizen

And not a sitting Senator running a national campaign.

People have moved on since 2000, you know.

[Hydra]

27. Moved on to 1929?

I'd like someone who plans to fix that. If you enjoy it, though, feel free to say so.

[incapsulated]

No, moved on to new candidates

People who have been in politics all these years. You know. The politicians.

[Hydra]

38. Are you refering to our Top Tiers?

I'm almost as disappointed in them as the Repubs are with their choices. Scary, really.

[incapsulated]

39. That may be so for you and for most of DU even

That really isn't the case for the rest of the party.

It's the republicans who are desperate for "anyone else" at this point.

[Hydra]

46. As I said

if you're ok with the status quo, just say it. I'm not ok with it.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

17. but does it matter?

I think not. I think people forget that Gore has been this way before (only this time he is in a much better position).

[Cha]

18. HELLO! Gore has evolved since

1992 unlike some who are quite content with their tunnelvision.

[cuke]

20. HELLO! Many DUers don't care

They still talk about HRC being a republican in 1965 and Clark's supposed votes for republicans.

[MonkeyFunk]

21. So people keep saying

but nobody ever points to concrete evidence of that.

Does he oppose NAFTA now? That sure would be a stunning reversal. What issues has he "evolved" on?

[KoKo]

30. That's the point...Fear of Gore turned on Progressives....

saying they are "so pure" they would turn on anyone. Disgusting...disinfo..by folks who fear Gore just like those who stole election from him....and didn't understand what Repugs could do to corrupt our voting could be done by Dems, too! UNLESS WE WORKED TO CLEAN IT ALL UP... FEAR!!!!

[BlueIris]

22. I love me some Joe Cannon. JOSEPH—MAKE OUT WITH ME!!!

:-)

[Casper]

25. Great post - K&R - n/t

[Sparkly]

26. More evidence that much of what's called "left" here

has nothing to do with leftist political philosophy.

I like Gore, but I never considered him really liberal, let alone progressive. Yet he's suddenly the darling of the "left" here. :shrug:

[oregonjen]

31. Good grief!

The fact that Gore, in his speeches and writings, actually is wanting to protect the Constitution and our rights is number one in my mind. The dems in office now are not close to doing that. Have you read his books? Have any of the current slew of dem candidates come close to that kind of talk? Gore has written about the war being illegal. I have no doubt in my mind he would end it and bring our troops home.

On edit: Kucinich is the only one in the batch of dems running that have been consistant in protecting our rights and his record regarding the illegal war.

[Sparkly]

32. I think all that's great.

As I said, I like Al Gore -- very much. I was a huge supporter in 2000.

But, protecting the Constitution and condemning the war aren't inherently or definitively "left." There's a lot more to it.

[oregonjen]

33. Sure there's a lot more to it

But in this current political world, the "right" has taken it upon themselves to destroy the Constitution and allow and encourage the war to happen. So, they have become "left" and "right" issues, just like environmental issues have become.

[Sparkly]

35. Or just "right" and "wrong"

or American and UnAmerican.

[joshcryer]

34. Ever since his Brookings Institute speech his position on many issues...

...has been starkly different than most politicians. Al Gore is one of those politicians, one of those rare politicians who will change their views with presented with a compelling argument to change those views.

[Sparkly]

41. On which issues? nt

[Semper_FiFi]

28. Great post. Kick and recommend n/t

[goodgd_yall]

36. Yes

Of course, once Gore is examined with a microscope, he'll be subject to as much criticism as O, E, and C. As long as we're not looking at every statement he's ever made, his past associations, and his live style, he seems the perfect candidate; but that wouldn't last long once he put his hat in the ring (which he isn't going to do anyway).

[calimary]

37. Ummm... how long before I hate him? You can't count that far.

The sun will flame out and consume our solar system before I start hating Al Gore.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mary_lyo_071016_gore_s_not_the_only_.htm

[ecstatic]

42. LOL... So true, but I think we have valid reasons for being pissed with Pelosi

I mean, come on...

[LoZoccolo]

45. Great find; I'm recommending it!

:thumbsup:

[UGADUer]

47. Are you a PURIST to be against extremist trade agreements?

It's interesting when the extremists call you one.

[mzmolly]

50. The trade agreements were'nt extremist, the failure to enforce them by

the Bushies is.

[mzmolly]

49. I've wondered the same thing.

I've been going over The Assault on Reason. Fine as that book is, every page divulges at least one sentence or stance which will cause the progressive purists to go into hate-gasm. The purists may cry for Gore now (even though many of them voted for Nader then), but they want the idealized Al Gore of their imaginations, not the actual man.

Yes, the ideal "purist candidate" is one without a record in office, who can continually pander to disgruntled leftists without ever having to explain a vote.

[venable]

51. the prob with Al is he is an absolutely awful campaigner

furrowed eyebrows lecturing in a monotone. Lock Box.

and gets, or used to get, very skittish about offending anyone. Anyone recall his gambit in Florida where he said Elian should stay. Just awful.

Nader said it best when he described how Al had a chocolate ice cream cone, and a reporter asked him if that was his favorite flavor. "Er,uh, I like vanilla, too, and pistacchio, and I like lots of different flavors. Strawberry, too."

I'm sorry, but everybody likes many kinds of ice cream but everyone also has a favorite flavor ice cream.


It's OK, Al. Pick a flavor.


That's what I worry about if he gets in.

[divineorder]

54. So Awful a Campaigner

That he won three Congressional races, 2 Senatorial races, and certainly didn't hurt Bill Clinton as his running mate. One thing a lot of people don't remember was his website in 2000 when he gave riveting speeches and tried to get people to actually participate in his election. He was so poor a candidate that he made up an 18 point deficit to tie and win the popular vote. Indeed, if it weren't for Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris, Gore would have won Florida outright.

Gore is so poor a campaigner that he put the whole issue of Global Warming on the map in a way that nobody had before, and narrated his way to an Oscar. Poor campaigner? Hardly. What happened was that he was mugged by the MSM who was in the pocket of Daddy Bush and media Corporations who thought a Republican would give them consolidation. Thankfully, they paid no attention to the internet, except to mock it.

Gore's problems in 2000 were also due to the lack of a Democratic ground game. There was nobody already on the ground to make Katherine Harris be honest, either by running against her or legislation.

[JI7]

52. i hate those people

they are the same ones who claimed there wasn't any difference between Gore and Bush. how fucking wrong was that.

in some ways i view them as worse than Republicasn because they claim to be on your side but make shit up and attack anyone who is actually trying to make progress.

[eridani]

53. Who says you have to agree with your candidate all the time?

I'm not always 100% with Dennis myself.