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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 03:35 PM
Original message
Dodd Ends Spying, No Senator Will Do Same for War
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 03:35 PM by davidswanson
Senator Chris Dodd on Thursday single-handedly blocked a bill to legalize unconstitutional spying and immunize criminals who have engaged in it. But by doing so, Dodd may have made the biggest blunder Washington has seen in many months. He advertised the fact that a single senator with nerve has the power to block a bill, including – of course – every bill to further fund the occupation of Iraq. Now, how will Dodd explain his past and future failure to use the same power to end the war that he has used to end warrantless spying? How will other senators, including Harry Reid, explain their own failure? How will Nancy Pelosi manage to keep asserting in every conversation that only 67 senators can end a war?

Dodd released the following statement:

It's been a busy day, but I wanted take a moment and let you know that I have decided to place a "hold" on legislation in the Senate that includes amnesty for telecommunications companies that enabled the President's assault on the Constitution by providing personal information on their customers without judicial authorization.
I said that I would do everything I could to stop this bill from passing, and I have.
It's about delivering results -- and as I've said before, the FIRST thing I will do after being sworn into office is restore the Constitution.
But we shouldn't have to wait until then to prevent the further erosion of our country's most treasured document.
That's why I am stopping this bill today.


But blocking a bill, not passing one, is exactly what's needed to get our troops and mercenaries home from Iraq. It is a lie that Congress must pass a bill to end the occupation of Iraq. The occupation can be ended with an announcement by Congressional leaders that there will be no more funding. Any proposal to fund it can be blocked by 41 senators filibustering or by a single senator putting a hold on the bill. Bush has plenty of money for withdrawal and could be given more for that exclusive purpose. When your television tells you the Democrats need 60 or 67 senators to end the occupation, your television is lying to you.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid could if they wanted announce today that the House and Senate will no longer bring to a vote any bills to fund anything other than withdrawal. They have many colleagues already on board with that position, not to mention two thirds of the country. It would take 218 signatures on a discharge petition to force a bill to the floor of the House without Pelosi's approval. It is unlikely enough Democrats would oppose their party to fund Bush's war in that way. In the Senate, Reid alone could refuse to bring a bill to the floor, or another senator could put an open or secret hold on a bill. And, while not all bills can be filibustered (appropriations bills can be, budget reconciliation bills cannot), you can hardly claim you need 60 votes to get past a filibuster without admitting that with only 41 you could launch your own filibuster and that with 51 you could defeat any bill. Once you understand the goal as blocking bills rather than passing them, the number of allies you need shrinks dramatically.

In fact, Senator Dodd has just very publicly advertised his ability to take action on Iraq in January, thereby earning the right to be president. This would be a major shift from his current proposal that we elect him president first, after which he'll see about ending the war.

Thank Dodd and urge others to join him in blocking the FISA bill here:
http://www.democrats.com/hold-the-wiretap-bill

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GeminiProgressive Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. I wonder if Senator Sanders
Could end the war in this way?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Let Chris Dodd know you appreciate his efforts
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I did it and made a contribution to say thanks nt
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. I signed, told everyone I know to sign, and called his office to say thank-you.
He did a great thing today for our country.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. That is categorically false
budget bills can't be blocked in a similar way. That is the whole reason things get attacked to those bills because they can't be so blocked. One recent example of this is the Hate Crimes legislation which was attached to the Defense Dept budget.
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f the letter Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Is that true of all these 'emergency' spending bills too?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Never mind.
fact based journalism doesn't seem to be in vogue these days. This isn't the first time Mr. Swanson has made claims about how the Congress works that are not true.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. self delete
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 05:33 PM by cali
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. Yes, as I recall Gingrich never shut down the government by refusing to pass a budget. That was
just a dream...

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. No House Republicans shut down the government by refusing to pass a budget
which is a huge difference. The OP says ONE Senator could put a hold on the budget and that is FALSE.
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. Is it possible that in the past few years
that these Senators have had so much on their minds that they forgot that "blocking" a bill was even an option?

Sometimes the most sensible option simply never occurs to you. For instance, years ago I used to rush to the post office before it closed so I could buy postage stamps without having to use those worrisome vending machines. Then, one day, as I was standing in line at a Quik-Trip to pay for my purchases, the person in front of me asked for a book of postage stamps!
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katmondoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. I told my daughter a few weeks ago that I will vote for Dodd
I like how he presents himself, no big ego.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. Didn't Dodd vote against funding the war the last time it came up, and wasn't he outspoken
to the effect that others should do likewise -- before Clinton or Obama decided to also vote against funding the war?

Why do you ask "How will Dodd explain his past and future failure to use the same power to end the war that he has used to end warrantless spying?" How can one Senator do that?
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. Urgent! Support Senator Dodd
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3622032&mesg_id=3622032

Chris Dodd is asking for signatures on his website regarding his FISA action.

Sign the petition here: http://action.chrisdodd.com/signUp.jsp?key=1570

Please sign!
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. Don't say "our mercenaries" plzkthx. n/t
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. let's make a deal
don't say "our troops"
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Now that you mention it, I never do.
:hi:
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. it's a deal
:-)))
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. I just sent Dodd a thank you AND a campaign donation, telling him it was because
he showed SPINE on the FISA bill.

If only MORE of ours had such courage. If only Nancy and Harry would prevent crap compromise bills like this from coming to the floor.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. a founding father
if we and other senators back him up and he gives us back the 4th amendment he's effectively a founding father of this country

he has NEVER attempted anything similar to end the occupation, and god knows Reid hasn't
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Dennis Kucinich said this very same thing on the Ed Schultz Show...
He said...we don't need to make Bills to END THE WAR...we need to BLOCK FUNDING and WE CAN DO IT...!

He was correct. Folks forget that the Repugs Blocked everything Dems wanted to do and obstructed with Parliamentary Procedures even more! And...do any old time DU'ers remember how we were told by Daschle and others that the Repugs Changed all the RULES to FAVOR the MAJORITY?

If the Repugs CHANGED ALL THE RULES for THEIR MAJORITY...then when did our DEMS GIVE UP those RULES? They whine and complain and carry on...yet they are operating under the FAVORABLE RULE CHANGES the REPUGS put in place for THEMSELVES in the HOUSE AND SENATE?

So, either they are LYING or they are operating under the "old rules" because their AGENDA is CLOSE TO THE REPUGS... I'm not talking about the Dem Progressive Caucus here...but the OLD DLC'ERS who just can't seem to get that AMERICA HAS BEEN TRASHED... This isn't CLINTON I....it's something very different and EVIL that's gone on! They need to not operate like they are the Dem Party of the 80's or 90's...or further back!
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Didn't Kucinich also say on the Ed Schultz Show that he was 'seriously thinking' about
forcing vote on Cheney impeachment?
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. Wouldn't the Dems need 40 votes to filibuster funding? Or can just one person block a funding bill?
There is a problem I see with blocking funding for the war at this stage. The Pentagon has got a budget. Even if it was illegal, I would bet that Bush would tell them "Take the money out of somewhere else and apply it to Iraq." And then he would tell Faux News "Every time there is a casualty in Iraq, flash a letterhead that says 'Another US Service death brought to you by the Democratic Congress.'" even though the war was being fully funded by money that was supposed to be spent in Texarkana or Okinawa or someplace else.

What Congress do to stop him from misappropriating funds? Take him to court?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Well they sure wouldn't want to impeach bush for breaking the law. We already
know that.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
23. Dodd can't hold it up forever
Edited on Fri Oct-19-07 12:42 AM by Hippo_Tron
And as stated above, budget bills work differently.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. yes and no
yes, Dodd cannot single-handedly stop it forever unless Reid honors his hold

yes, it could ultimately take 41 senators

but one senator having grown a spine is a huge step in the right direction

no, it's not true that war or budget bills are different

they too can be held or filibustered

or they can be blocked from the floor by one man: Harry Reid
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cartach Donating Member (361 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
24. Who's the real enemy here?
Pelosi and Reid or Bush and Co.? Is it possible they are as dumb as George? No,it can't be that so, being politicians,they have to have some devious reason to blatantly ignore the will of the people.But I really think the main enemy in this whole sordid scenario are the people themselves.The only evidence I see of any dissent are the relatively few who vent their frustrations on forums like this,the very few who take part in the various polls and a few politicians who have the guts to challenge the status quo.The rest of the population are wandering around like a bunch of lost sheep in various states of ignorance or disinterest and apathy and the media is just interested in talking points.I would'nt even try to suggest what the solution is,I think it's too late for one.
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girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Thank You Senator Dodd
an honor to sign your petition
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