BREAKING: Obama says won't pull anti-gay bigot from big campaign event

[ProSense]

BREAKING: Obama says won't pull anti-gay bigot from big campaign event

by John Aravosis (DC) · 10/22/2007 07:28:00 PM ET

Funny how Obama is a big supporter of civil rights when blacks are being maligned, but not so much when gays are the victims. Kind of puts his screw up over General Pace's homophobia in a whole new light. I really like Obama. I'm from Illinois. But this is despicable.

From the Chicago Trib blog:

About 6:40 pm today, the Obama campaign issued a written statement from the candidate saying that he "strongly disagree(s)" with McClurkin's views. Still, a spokesman said McClurkin would remain part of the concert line-up.

“I have clearly stated my belief that gays and lesbians are our brothers and sisters and should be provided the respect, dignity, and rights of all other citizens. I have consistently spoken directly to African-American religious leaders about the need to overcome the homophobia that persists in some parts our community so that we can confront issues like HIV/AIDS and broaden the reach of equal rights in this country," Obama said in the written statement.

"I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin’s views and will continue to fight for these rights as President of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division," the statement added.

That's nice, Senator. You strongly disagree with the bigot who thinks I need to be cured, and who has declared "war" on me and my people, but you're going to put the guy on stage with you anyway in order to make a few bucks. Nice. I wonder what Obama would say if Hillary invited David Duke to speak at an event but then said, not to worry, she really loves black people - kisses!

If you're afraid to lead, Senator, then maybe you're not the leader we thought you were.

Huge mistake.

More to come. Much more. All week.

PS You know Obama's campaign was fully aware of just who this bigot was - this wasn't a mistake. The bigot has been in the news, a lot, for his virulent homophobia. Obama simply didn't care. And he doesn't care now.

[Cameron27]

1. Whew, Aravosis is steamed.

Obama's making a mistake, and he'd better go further than this statement IMO.

[badgerpup]

107. Pissing off John Aravosis is NOT a good idea...

The guy has just a wee bit o' clout...:nuke:

Bad decison, Mr. Obama. Methinks you have just shot yourself in the foot.

[MethuenProgressive]

135. "I strongly disagree with Rev McClurkin’s views" but I'll take all the $$ he can bring in!

$$ trumps ethics where Obama is concerned.

[insanad]

147. What makes a good leader

I'm surprised that in posting Barack Obama's written committment to support and defend all Americans, regardless of race, color, sexual orientation or otherwise that you could have missed the entire point of his statement. HE SAYS HE IS DEFENDING THE RIGHTS OF GAYS, as well as the civil rights of ignorant idiotic bigots to speak freely, even if they say something we don't agree with.

When I look for a great leader I don't necessarily look for someone who mirrors every single thought or value that I have. I look for someone who will defend the rights of everyone, even stupid people, even people who are so defensive that they'll ignore the main message and attatch some sinister plot to an effort by one who is mostly trying to reach out.

Senator Obama in no way supports the bigots who want to "cure" gays. He exemplifies tolerance and a great strength in his committment, but also opens the table for change and discussion, even with those who he would disagree with. If you close every door, shut out every opposing view, build a wall around every idea or value, then you seriously limit any chance of progress or understanding on either side of an issue.

Senator Obama is extending this same kind of willingness to start communications with even more grotesque villians like the current leader of Iran and setting up the diplomacy for viable resolutions between Israel and Lebanon. These issues, world peace, tolerance of others, racial equity are all very much at the forefront of his campaign. You missed the point of his written statement. I'll join you in contempt for those who treat Gays so badly, but not in condemning one who would try to bring balance and clarity to such issues.

[Joe Bacon]

159. I have lost all respect for Obama.

I am switching to Chris Dodd, someone who will actually stand and fight for everyone! Let's see Donny the bigot sing his way out of that!

[FedUp_Queer]

188. Hmmm...

So...I can't wait until NAZIs get a place at the table. How about anti-Semites. Racists? Your analogy to Iran is inapposite. First, Ahmadinejad is not the leader of Iran. Second, he IS the ONLY President of Iran. This McClurkin is not the only Black clergyman. And please, PLEASE, stop with the "tolerance" talk. I don't want tolerance. I don't need tolerance. Tolerance is condescending and disgusting. I want equality. So far, Obama has not expressed his view that he wants equality for GLBT people (marriage rights). Then to cohort, endorse, share the stage with a bigot like this...just kinda underscores the lack of sincerity. The fact is this: not all opinions are equally valid. When a person who wants to be a leader cohorts with someone, accepts their money, etc. from a person as deplorable as this, when there are others he could deal with, he accepts the messages.

Finally, this "balance and clarity" is garbage. If it's not, hell, why not put "intelligent design" in science class. How about putting the "flat earth perspective" in geology. Obama, who knew how you really felt.

[insanad]

161. Have you all lost your minds?

I'm surprised at the tone of this thread. Most of you who desire a leader who will openly and willingly support the gay cause have a great ally in Barack Obama, yet you're so easily led and duped by thinking that one with an opposing view appearing on the same stage as him is an endorsement by Senator Obama of the bigotry and ignorance. Did you fail to read the actual written statement or listen to Obama's statements on the news, or read his website, or his books, or follow his very bold and direct support of your cause? Did you forget that his leadership is based on trying to help people find common ground rather than polarize and separate people even more? Did you forget how to use your own brian, your own conscience, your own ability to research and glean information before making a decision. Decrying Barack Obama in the immature and ignorant ways posted on this thread seems to reflect on the lack of intellect of your whole group. I'm sure there are intelligent and thoughful people in the Gay and Lesbian world, just not on this thread. If you can read this letter, then you can read Barack Obama's statement. I highly suggest you do so and then think, THINK, THINK before you jot off some childish rant about how he's dropped the ball.

[fightindonkey]

163. Nice Try insand, but no. I Won't Vote For A David Duke Supporter Either

Wake up call to Obama trolls!

[John Gauger]

187. "Your whole group"?

What the hell is that supposed to mean? "I'm sure there are intelligent and thoughtful people in the Gay and Lesbian world...." The implications in your statements are disgusting. This is some of the most odious gay-bashing I've seen anywhere on the Internet, let alone DU. I am baffled that this post has not been removed.

I think you need to search your brain - a professional politician can say that he is not a bigot but it doesn't make it so. Actions speak louder than words.

[trotsky]

2. Obama drops the ball. Big time.

Thanks for this update, ProSense. Good thing we find this out about Obama now rather than later, I suppose.

[NMMNG]

3. Obama to gays: "Kiss my backside. "

I bet you can guess which finger I'm holding up.

[Clintonista2]

4. Fuck you Obama

Seriously. Fuck you.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clintonista2]

109. I don't respect bigotry and hatred, so I'll say it again...

Fuck you Obama.

[Ethelk2044]

156. Your hatred is not real because you would say Fuck You Hillary because of her

support with Rev. Mayberry's endorsement

[DemFemme]

110. Would you say, "Fuck you Hillary" re: Rev. Mayberry's endorsement of her?

Should Hillary denounce Rev. Mayberry or at least reject his endorsement, which is featured on her website at the moment?

"Senator Clinton has an excellent concept about how she plans to address issues surrounding crime and education. She described how she has partnered with leaders in New York to create a charter school specifically for African American men and notes that the Allen Cathedral AME Church charter school in Jamaica Queens, New York could be used as a model of how to help educate African American young men. Her mentioning of the school shows that she's aware of outstanding successful examples of education in this country. The way she addressed the need for the federal government to partner with inner cities suggests that she's not just focusing on international issues but that she's concerned with domestic ones - particularly crime and violence in our communities. I want a president who knows how to strike a balance between addressing international and domestic challenges facing this country," said Reverend Dr. Harold R. Mayberry, Senior Pastor of First African Methodist Episcopal Church and Chairperson of Network for Interfaith Action.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=2857


***********


Religious groups on common ground
Many faiths oppose same-sex marriages
Don Lattin, Tyche Hendricks, Cicero Estrella, Vanessa Hua, Chronicle Staff Writers
Sunday, March 14, 2004

Like most religious opponents of same-sex marriage, the Rev. Harold Mayberry, pastor of the First African Methodist Church in Oakland, has preached against homosexuality to his congregation of 2,800.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/03/14/MNGJB5KB9N1.DTL&type=printable

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemFemme]

127. You seem obsessed with me. Please stop now.

Stalking is against DU rules, you know.

[MethuenProgressive]

136. I want my $50.00 back, Barack.

I've donated, as a way to show my support albeit in a small way, to Clinton, Clark, Obama, Richardson, and Kucinich.
I want my money back, Barack. You don't deserve it.

[Sandaasu]

5. As I had feared, but sadly suspected.

More empty words.

[bigdarryl]

6. what politician cares about the GAYS ?

[Forkboy]

11. Barney Frank does, I bet.

And I bet a lot of others do too.Sadly, it's looking like Obama isn't one of them.

[denem]

19. The Republicans care A LOT about gays.

[BootinUp]

61. that was mildly humorous

its a serious subject though.

[youthere]

140. You are so right...in a sad sad way.

[cali]

30. lots. In my state alone

hundreds of them.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

7. two things wrong there unless i'm wrong

1: he isn't making money on this(fee is for paying the venues unless i'm wrong)
2: Obama is not going to be on the stage with him

personal view: I don't mind him appearing to sing if thats all he will be doing, if he were to hold a speech or somesuch i would have a problem(also he will only be of one of the 3 events if i understood correctly)

[cuke]

14. McBigot gets free publicity by being on stage

[Clintonista2]

22. It also creates the illusion of credibility

Obama touring with this bigot makes it look as if he's not as batshit crazy as he really is.

[Tellurian]

47. It makes Obama palatable to the Republican vote..

Obama is showing he sides with the Republican values bigots.

[trotsky]

99. Obama's website appears to state differently re: #1.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/scembrace

Tickets are just $10 and support Barack's historic, grassroots campaign for the Presidency.

[rucky]

8. This is probably a topic for another thread, but...

What's with the Black religious community and homophobia?

I was living in Oregon during electon '04, and there was another anti-gay measure on the ballot. I worked in a predominately Black neighborhood, and on the drive to and from I'd see yard signs supporting Kerry and supporting the anti-gay measure on the same lawn.

I don't get it.

[Cronus Protagonist]

15. Denigrating others elevates the denigrator

Not all black people are immune to it.

[BootinUp]

28. Ok, you made me think

I believe I am getting it.

[cuke]

31. That's not it

Not even close

[BootinUp]

36. I should have explained better

Sorry,

it sorta makes sense that there are a small minority who fall into the anti-gay message for whatever reason.

[cuke]

37. Ahh. makes more sense

[BootinUp]

20. I don't get it either

I was shocked by some of the polling that showed an increase of black support for Bush and suggested some of it was due to the gay issues.

[goclark]

191. We don't all sing the same songs all day long

African Americans have a variety of views just as we are a variety of skin tones.

The huge majority of African Americans that I know are extremely accepting of ALL people.

Most of our churches are accepting of people from various races/sexual preferences as well.

I say most,there are those that even like Clarence Thomas and Condi, not many but there are some.

Your example of the Anti-Gay support surprises me.

Generally we are too busy keeping our jobs and feeding our families and standing in long lines for our votes to be counted ~ and they are NOT counted.

[Forkboy]

9. He just dug himself deeper.

[calteacherguy]

10. Must we ostracize folks we disagree with?

And wasn't McClurkin talking about himself, personally? And is he talking at all; isn't he just appearing at an event?

What's the big deal? :shrug:

From a Clinton supporter....

[Sandaasu]

25. He talks about others as well.

He projects his situation onto others, saying that they can, and should, change as he claims to have done.

This is a very dangerous, even deadly, message for homosexuals.

[trotsky]

32. McClurkin has said he views homosexuality as a "curse."

And that he is at "war" with homosexuality.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42982-2004Aug28.html

So it's a little more than just "disagreeing" with him, ya see?

[Tellurian]

49. McClurkin also said, Religion "cured" him...

How else can the Republican cult of pedofiles fit into the Family Values Matrix?

They will all declare they've been "cured" because they believe.

[JackBeck]

38. Would you understand if Obama was offended

if Clinton supported an event that David Duke was speaking/performing at?

[Cronus Protagonist]

12. I know little about Obama

I guess now you could say that I know a little more.

:(

[Solon]

13. Obama endorses a Homophobic piece of shit!

For some reason I'm not surprised.

[calteacherguy]

18. Endorses?

He just made a statement saying he does not endorse what he said; in fact he completely disagrees!

[dbackjon]

21. But he is endorsing him - by inviting him to sing...

It's not rocket science.

Either you agree that Obama did was wrong, or you are a knuckle-dragging homophobe. It is that simple.

[Solon]

29. So, the guy is still going to be in an Obama sponsored event...

and its by invitation only, that, my friend, is an ENDORSEMENT!

[cuke]

35. Not an edorsement

In politics, endorsement has a specific meaning, and McCloset didn't endorse Obama. However, appearing on a stage at an Obama event gives him credibility

[Solon]

40. Regardless of the correctness of the terms, giving McCloset credibility is atrocious. n/t

[cuke]

42. That I agree with

I just have a thing with sloppy usage

[Mellowtone]

67. YES, exactly right!

So some people take a statement and twist it all around, amazing how small minds work!

[zulchzulu]

85. Obama is having sex with a homophobe in front of his children on his web site!

I'll one up ya...

:sarcasm:

[rogue emissary]

16. If this is true, I have no one to support in primaries . . .

of course I'm in VA. So there's good chance my vote isn't going to matter.

[sniffa]

131. i know it's a shame there's onLy one or two peopLe running

if onLy kucinich were running. or even dodd. or richardson.

[rogue emissary]

138. all three of those guys have their own problems.

[FreeState]

17. No vote from me

Obama was my second choice (after Kucinich) he is now my last choice. No chance in hell he will get a vote from me in the primaries.

[wtmusic]

23. He doesn't say that at all

Hysteria. Freaking hysteria.

[Mellowtone]

24. OH Puleeze!

Do you think we will win the White House without votes and support from some people who are screwed up on their positions on gay rights?

Please don't misjudge a candidate by the views of some of the people who will support him. This is a non issue, when Cheney wants to bomb Iran and Hillary votes to support condemnation of Iran... let's get the priorities "straight"!

[Clintonista2]

26. "Let's get the priorities 'straight' "

Sickening. Disguisting. You should not be posting on a progressive website.

[Mellowtone]

43. Typical response from a true believer

If you didn't like my play on words, please says so, but your logic escapes me, you are as exclusionary as a right to lifer, how can you kick your fellow liberals aside if they don't agree with EVERYTHING you say?

You think electing a power hunger woman who favors bombing Iran is more reasonable than supporting a liberal hard-working Senator and legal scholar like Obama because he's got people in his campaign who don't support gay rights? Welcome to the 21st century! Try to grow up into it. Not all people think alike, a lesson you should have learned by now.

[Cameron27]

44. That's offensive.

It would be no different than telling an Obama supporter not to be upset if Clinton or Edwards had people in their campaigns who don't support AA civil rights. Gay rights is civil rights, you try to grow up.

[Mellowtone]

56. Of course Gay rights are civil rights

Don't tell me to grow up.. I want people like you to realize there are people in the world who support Obama who do NOT have your values. What's wrong with my saying that? You think all people have to hae your opinions? That's totalitarianism, not democracy. Learn to live in this world, before you judge me!

[Cameron27]

60. What the hell are you trying to say?

Yes, I know there are bigots in this world who don't agree with me. If they're supporting Obama or are part of his campaign, I'll call them out on it. What does any of this have to do with Obama hosting a gay bashing bigot on his gospel tour?

[Clintonista2]

45. If you support gay rights you do not go on tour with a man who has declared a "war on homosexuality"

The difference between me and you, is that I see discrimination against GLBT as wrong, period, just as I see discrimination against, for instance, blacks, to be wrong. Do you think it would be ok for Obama to go on tour with a member of the KKK? Of course you dont. You think it's ok for him to go on tour with an anti-gay bigot, though, because you don't believe that equality for gays should be a "priority." Like I said, you should not be posting on a progressive website.

[creeksneakers2]

53. Hillary is getting knocked for the exact same thing

on another thread.

[Mellowtone]

57. Well then, this is a NON issue

As I have been saying all along in this thread, not everybody has evolved to the state of acceptng gay people as being people, that's THEIR problem, NOT OURS!

[Clintonista2]

64. Obama legitimizes that belief when he appears with anti-gay bigots.

[Mellowtone]

62. Like you said

You decide who should post and who should not, sounds lie totalitarianism to me, not very "democratic"!

Please learn the first thing about politics if you will, since you seem to want to control the entire world, and how everyone thinks and acts, democracy is not a perfect world, just better than all the others.

Your edict that I should not be posting here, is a totally inane statement, and probably reason for me to wish that YOU, in your totalitarian, one - view - fits - all, view of the world should not be posting in a democracy... but I'm better than that, because I realize that we have to put up with fascists like you. You have as much a right to your opinion on a board like this as I have to mine. Get over yourself and move on.

[Clintonista2]

118. You hate gay people

This forum is not for you.

[JackBeck]

41. The New Democratic Southern Strategy:

Clinton appears at events with David Duke.

[ruggerson]

52. Hey, let's go after the Klu Klux Klan vote then too

I'm sure there are many Aryan Nation cells we're overlooking, as well.

[Bluebear]

86. It's important to include all views, particularly if it means raising money.

:sarcasm:

[Bluebear]

87. "This is a non issue"... to YOU. Thanks for your 'support'.

[NMMNG]

130. Uh huh

:popcorn:

[citizen53]

27. I wonder about Obama...

and in this case, Obama's money oriented campaign bites him in the ass. On a larger scale, if Clinton falters, would he really be better in taking on the other side and acomplishing change? Not that Clinton would be great, but she will fight.

Good for Americablog for pointing out the inconsistency in Obama's actions this past week, and in his message regarding McClurkin.

[DURHAM D]

33. I honestly don't understand why anyone is surprised by Obama's

pandering to a certain demographic. Look at the numbers - does this country have more gay hating fundamentalists or gay folk?

This was an easy decision for the Obama campaign.

[ruggerson]

34. If this is true

Obama is finished. And he just screwed the pooch on his Veep chances.

Hopefully, he'll change his mind.

[okamichan13]

39. Big mistake

doesn't denouce, just his "views", whatever that means. And still keeps him on. Can't make the excuse "we just didn't know" anymore.

[zulchzulu]

46. Meanwhile...a declared homophobe who endorsed Clinton is on her web site

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=2857


A man who preaches that homosexuality is "thievery", Reverend Dr. Harold R. Mayberry endorses Hillary Clinton (on her web site):

"Senator Clinton has an excellent concept about how she plans to address issues surrounding crime and education. She described how she has partnered with leaders in New York to create a charter school specifically for African American men and notes that the Allen Cathedral AME Church charter school in Jamaica Queens, New York could be used as a model of how to help educate African American young men. Her mentioning of the school shows that she's aware of outstanding successful examples of education in this country. The way she addressed the need for the federal government to partner with inner cities suggests that she's not just focusing on international issues but that she's concerned with domestic ones - particularly crime and violence in our communities. I want a president who knows how to strike a balance between addressing international and domestic challenges facing this country," said Reverend Dr. Harold R. Mayberry, Senior Pastor of First African Methodist Episcopal Church and Chairperson of Network for Interfaith Action."

Here is what Mayberry has said about gays, referring them to thieves:
"I'm comfortable in what I believe in," Mayberry said. "I'm not rejecting people. As God loves, we love. I don't reject thieves, I reject thievery.''

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/03/14/MNGJB5KB9N1.DTL&type=printable

[DURHAM D]

51. You are having a busy night trying to "catapult the propaganda". n/t

[Tellurian]

55. So when was the 3 day fund-raising Tour? I must have missed it?

another swing and a miss.. STRIKE TWO!

tsk, tsk...all the nice html code gone to waste!

[zulchzulu]

71. Perhaps you can tell me when Donnie sings with three other acts?

Yes! You are correct! He (hopefully to many boos) sings one night with three other gospel acts.

Did he endorse Obama and does Obama proudly have his endorsement on his web site?

NO!

[Tellurian]

112. I wish the biggest protest at Obama bigoted Tour

asking Obama where is his promised "new" politics of Washington?

He's just demonstrating more of the same divisiveness of Republican think catering to the Evangelical vote!

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

63. Why do you delight in petty deceptions?

Why not stick to the facts. The statment should not be on her site, but nobody (responsible) is saying he has endorsed Clinton.

"Endorsed" has a certain meaning. Why not say he has spoken approvingly of her, which is obviously true.

If a candidate has "courted" someone it implies they would like his endorsement... which means there is no endorsement. You don't "court" people who have already endorsed you.

You have a legit complaint, but you blow it with hyperbole.

[zulchzulu]

74. What I find despicable are Hillary supporters playing up the "Donnie" problem when...

...in fact, a declared homophobe has an endorsement on her web site.

The only way to bring the news to these people is to shove it in their face like they are trying to shove their candidate in my face.

[incapsulated]

123. What you don't get

Is that this is upsetting people who happen to be Obama supporters or don't support Hillary at all. And when you make this into a silly tit for tat, Hillary vs. Obama fight, you insult them all over again.

[DemFemme]

48. Has Aravosis read this?

'McClurkin said he does not believe in discriminating against homosexuals. "What people do in their bedrooms and who they are as human beings are two different things," he said.'

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071023/ap_on_el_pr/obama_gospel_singer_3;_ylt=Ak3FgyafuXXAy7v3_SFcqghh24cA

[DURHAM D]

50. Word smithing. So what. He promotes the ex-gay b.s. n/t

[DemFemme]

76. I don't agree with his views, but he's no hater. n/t

[DURHAM D]

80. I don't think you understand the x-gay issue.

It is hateful.

[DemFemme]

91. I understand he was raped by a man when he was eight years old.

I don't agree with him, but McClurkin's opinions are probably colored by that tragic trauma.

[DURHAM D]

96. To bad you weren't here yesterday.

You would not make that excuse. Or, maybe you were and have issues.

I don't have time to chat - got to go meet some friends for dinner. We are all gay and we get the hate mongering that others often don't.

[DemFemme]

122. It's more of an insight into how McClurkin ended up where he is.

I don't agree with him. btw.

[Cameron27]

82. If he calls homosexuality a curse, then he is in fact is a hater.

[DemFemme]

95. Hmm...

Native Irish call alcoholism a curse, but they don't hate alcoholics. Many in the black community of faith feel the same way about homosexuality.
I wouldn't classify them all as haters. The road to enlightenment is longer for some.

[Cameron27]

100. Alcoholism is a disease,

homosexuality isn't. Calling a disease a curse may not be hateful, but calling someone's human identity a curse, definately is.

[DemFemme]

101. Like it or not, many in the black community of faith feel the same way as McClurkin.

Are they all haters, then, or are they sadly mistaken? Not everyone has come around to our view yet.

[Cameron27]

103. Damned right they're haters if they feel the same way

as this asshole. I've had it, really enough is enough. There is no justification, and no excuse for homophobia. None. Maybe someone else wants to discuss this with you, but this is as far as I go.

[Bluebear]

105. Love to you, seasoned.

[Cameron27]

106. TY Bluebear :-)

God my blood pressure just shot through the roof with that one.

[DemFemme]

108. Enlightenment takes time. n/t

[Forkboy]

114. Let us know when you reach it.

From what I'm reading you have a lot further to go than you think.

[DemFemme]

120. Why are you personally attacking me? That's against DU rules. n/t

[Forkboy]

139. I think you'll survive it.

If not, alert and quit whining.

[DemFemme]

189. Listen up, Fuckboy

Be careful you don't make a habit of it because harassment is also against DU rules.

[Forkboy]

193. LOL...you throw the rules at me while calling me Fuckboy?

:rofl:

Harassment? Pfffffft...you wont last long here if you think this is harassment.And you may want to reread those rules you keep speaking of, because apparently you didn't grasp them the first time through.

Have a nice day! :hi:

[Heywood J]

158. A personal attack would be if he insulted your parents,

your heritage, your looks, referred to you using many four-letter-words, etc. All he did was call you on something you said, using your own words.

I notice his post is still here.

[DemFemme]

190. Thank you for your guidance.

I'm new to the calculated rudeness and casual insults that pass for dialogue here.


But I'm a quick learner. :evilgrin:

[DemFemme]

119. I see them as misguided, unless they are inciting to violence or are rightwing legislators.

BTW, I only replied to your repeated queries aimed at me. I am rather relieved that you've "had it" because of your hostile tone of questioning. :hi:

[JackBeck]

113. So what is your solution?

We sit quietly on the sidelines until there is acceptance?

Or we speak out and educate until there is a better understanding of our civil rights struggle for equality?

[DemFemme]

121. I don't have a general solution but reaching out while speaking out is a good place to start. n/t

[JackBeck]

124. Newsflash: our "outreach" has been going on for almost 60 years, possibly longer..

Depends on who you ask. :sarcasm:

Our movement didn't start with Stonewall, by the way.

Sisters of Bilitis and the Mattachine Society were protesting before it was "cool". And the guys wore slacks and the women wore *gasp* skirts below the knees.

Some even say we've been around for a lot longer.

[DemFemme]

128. Obviously, more work needs to be done.

Not only by GLBT, but by those who support tolerance and enlightenment who are not gay. I am not gay, but I have convinced many who
think it's a lifestyle choice that it's not (using scientific data and asking when they decided to be heterosexual - that usually stops them
in their tracks - lol!). That's the start I meant - from this moment on and not remanded to past struggles for acknowledgment.

[denem]

126. No, but maybe you should work out a final solution

[DemFemme]

129. That's so clever.

:eyes:

[JackBeck]

54. That quote makes no sense whatsoever.

[Catchawave]

58. Somehow, that statement still sounds discriminatory?

If I told a gay friend "what you do in the bedroom and who you are are two different things?" I wouldn't have that friend anymore.

[DemFemme]

84. I'm not defending McClurkin's personal views

I wanted to make a distinction has to made between him and the rightwing religious haters. Like it or not, many in the black community of faith
feel the same way.

[Cameron27]

94. What exactly is the difference between him

and RW haters?

[DemFemme]

98. This.

'McClurkin said he does not believe in discriminating against homosexuals.'

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071023/ap_on_el_pr/obama_g... ;_ylt=Ak3FgyafuXXAy7v3_SFcqghh24cA

If only the David Driers, Mitch McConnells, Lindsay Grahams and Larry Craigs of the world would agree.

[Cameron27]

102. And yet he also says this:

"The gloves are off," he said on the Sept. 23, 2003 episode of Rev. Pat Robertson's 700 Club. "And if there's going to be a war, there's going to be a war. But it will be a war with a purpose. This is not a privately funded school. It is a public school funded by taxpayers' money. Why isn't anyone else speaking out? Everyone knows that everyone at the high school is homosexual. That makes for an easy target."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3632273&mesg_id=3632273

A bigot, is a bigot, is a bigot. Right wing, left wing, religious or not, they all distort the truth, promote divisiveness and hate & every single one of them should be condemned for their ideas. McClurkin is a gay bashing bigot.

[DemFemme]

104. He seems to have evolved in his position since 2003

Like Hillary and Edwards on their IWR votes.

[Solon]

65. He promotes practically torturing people to change their orientation, he deserves NO respect. n/t

[Bluebear]

70. You joined up to bring us this?

[DemFemme]

75. Good as time as any.

I've been on the sidelines quietly for months and decided to jump in. Thanks for the welcome. :hi:

[Bluebear]

79. So Aravosis is wrong on this?

[DemFemme]

88. He's entitled to his views, of course. n/t

[ieoeja]

176. And I know a bunch of people who don't believe in discriminating against African-Americans.

They think they are subhuman animals, but they don't think we should discriminate against them.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

59. Lame statement and a bad decision to go ahead with the event as organized

[youthere]

141. I agree...

and I like Obama, I've been torn between supporting him or Biden, and between this coming to light yesterday and Biden's interview Sunday with Stephanopolis, I have to choose Biden. Obama is naive if he doesn't believe this reflects poorly on him.

[gateley]

66. I would like to give Obama and Hillary (for having McC's endorsement on

her website) the benefit of the doubt, and I'm surprised at both of them. It makes me uncomfortable to feel these were intentional political ploys on their parts, but I'm beginning to lean that way.

I can't imagine anyone aligning with someone to any degree who holds such views unless they feel that association would be to their benefit somehow.

I'd love to be proven wrong.

[StrongBad]

69. Who wants to take bets that Hillary will pounce on this?

Anyone?

[Bluebear]

73. This New Hampshire voter just crossed Obama off any possible voting scenario

[Bullet1987]

77. GOBAMA!!!

[Bluebear]

78. GO AWAY you morally bankrupt cretin.

[jefferson_dem]

89. So now supporting Obama makes one a "morally bankrupt cretin"?

What the fuck is that?

[Bluebear]

90. No, saying that atheists and "anti-religion and gay types" don't matter does.

you weren't being addressed, but if you want to stand with that poster with those statements, have at it. That's what the fuck this is.

[jefferson_dem]

92. Ok.

My bad. I didn't realize I was stepping in the middle of a running feud.

Peace....Out.

[Bluebear]

93. It wasn't running until he said "anti-religion" types don't matter on the national stage

LOL. Sorry for pouncing back, peace :)

[closeupready]

157. He was never going to be the nominee. This just guaranteed it.

Now to repeat, go away.

[zulchzulu]

81. I assume Clinton's web site having an endorsement by a declared homophobe also...

...puts you in the same level of judgment.

A guy who splits a gig four ways on one night in a small town in South Carolina certainly is equal to a guy who declares homosexuality "thievery" whose endorsement is proudly displayed on a national web site...right?

:crazy:

[Bluebear]

83. I am not a Clinton supporter so put away your rolly eyes.

Mark Penn sealed the deal for Ms Clinton and I.

[cuke]

145. FYI, there was no endorsement

I know you don't support HRC, but I still don't think you should be lied to. z is lying to you.

[sniffa]

132. indeed

your vote shouLdn't be taken LightLy. :hi:

[Cha]

97. DAMN...by process of elimination..

looks like Edwards will be my candidate. I like Obama but I don't this shite AT ALL.

Don't be giving stupid Bigots a platform..you give 'em an inch, they fucking take the world.

[Nedsdag]

117. Didn't John Edwards say

he was uncomfortable with gays?

Didn't Bill Richardson say homosexuality is a choice?

You're running out of options my friend.

[Cha]

153. Yeah, John Edwards isn't perfect

on Gays(but you can see he's trying) but he's not giving donnie whatever a platform.

OT..mos def certainly got that right!

[sniffa]

133. i wish there were more than 3 peopLe running

i mean, i'd Love to vote for kucinich if he were running. even dodd.

[Cha]

154. Touche'. My problem is I

don't "connect" to any of the candidates and I'm frustrated like rudderless oar.

No passion like in 2000 and 2004.

I guess I'm not "old" yet cause I don't want ol' hill.

[ecstatic]

111. I don't recall Obama riding down to Jena... or really commenting much

on any major black issues...


Funny how Obama is a big supporter of civil rights when blacks are being maligned, but not so much when gays are the victims.

[Ethelk2044]

115. Evidently you are not black. Black people know why Obama did not come down to Jena and

They have no problem with it.

[ecstatic]

116. I was responding to what the article said about Obama being a

crusader for black rights.

[goclark]

192. Right ~ he wasn't there but we knew his heart was there

It's beat up on Obama day.

Obama ~ probably one of the most liberal and accepting of all the candidates.

He is no Condi or Clarence.

[flpoljunkie]

134. Aravosis, should we condemn Obama for McClurkin's tortured and misguided views on homosexuality?

You know the answer to the question. Slow down and think about it.

[trotsky]

137. Of course not. Because no one is saying that.

What we're upset about is Obama failing to distance himself and his campaign from this bigoted homophobe. Obama should stand up and confront McClurkin's hatred, denying him the platform of these campaign concerts.

[flpoljunkie]

142. McClurkin will not have a platform to spew his misguided bigotry, he will only be singing.

And, yes, some here are condemning Obama for not condemning McClurkin--even as he rightfully distinguishes his positions from those of the misguided and homophobic McClurkin.

[cuke]

146. McBigot gets free publicity by being on stage

Obama is giving this bigot credibility.

[Bluebear]

155. The misguided and homophobic McClurkin shouldn't even be CONNECTED to Obama.

Obama had a chance to lead on this issue and blew it.

[rinsd]

167. Why not? You personally revel in smear by association.

Why claim to be holding avarois to some standard of decency that you could care less about?

[bullwinkle428]

143. Message to Obama : Any chance you may have had for my support

in the Iowa Caucus is now completely gone! Full speed ahead for John Edwards!

[Mass]

144. Edwards who does not support gay marriage because of his education,

[bullwinkle428]

148. None of them overtly support gay marriage with the exception

of Kucinich, but at least Edwards is unwilling to use bigots (certainly to this point) as tools to further his chances for the nomination.

[Mass]

149. Like touting that, as a white man, he has more chances to win, you mean?

Let's be clear, I think Obama is wrong... However, it is always amusing to see that people have selective indignations.

[PresidentObama]

150. When has Edwards ever said he was most electable because he's white?

Oh wait, he hasn't. He's just said he's the most electable. You, however, are the one suggesting that's what he meant. Which I don't believe for one second.

And the poster above is right, Edwards isn't for gay marriage just like Obama. But at least Edwards isn't having some bigot gospel singer on the campaign trail. I admire and thoroughly enjoy Senator Obama, but this bothers me as a gay voter.

[Mass]

151. I respect you, but I have to disagree with your interpretation of what Edwards said.

Saying he would do better than Obama (a black man) or Clinton (a woman) is pretty clear even if he is not stupid enough to say it aloud.

For the rest, I have said what I thought about Obama and this issue and I do not need to be gay to be bothered.

This said, selective indignation bothers me as well. Be sure that many people who are protesting would not be bothered at all if it was their candidate doing that, just as some of the Obama candidates trying to say it is nothing would be in arms if it was somebody else. So, like Edwards if you want (the man that congratulated Cheney because he loved his daughter even if she was gay), but stop dreaming about the fact that his feelings towards gay people are any better than Obama.

[PresidentObama]

152. You can assume all you want, but what you suggested he said wasn't what he said.

Edwards is seen by many as the most electable, and it's the perfect angle for him to play when he's in third place and trying to break through. The electability card that is. In 2004, Howard Dean was leading and Kerry was "dead in the water" and the only way that changed was when Dean started making mistakes and people begin to question whose electable. It's smart strategy to get the public concerned about the electability of Hillary Clinton, and to suggest he can win in red and blue states.

And no you don't need to be gay to be bothered, it's an issue that concerns all of us. And I never suggested Edwards was any better or holier than thou on gay issues. I have my own issues with Edwards views in the past, just like I did with Senator Kerry's in 2004, but I do know Edwards didn't have a bigot openly on his campaign tour. If Obama is committed to GLBT issues and doesn't agree with the singers views, just remove him. That simple.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

160. As a straight woman this really...

disgusts me. What's this "do as I say and not as I do" shit Obama is peddling with this event? I want people who walk their talk. It is all well and good to say you support GLBT rights, but you damn well better back it up by your actions. :mad:

I know of the homophobia in the black community -- and having this person at his event simply reinforces that sentiment.

You blew it Obama --- big time.

[PatSeg]

162. This is what you get when you try to mix religion and politics

When will politicians ever learn?

[IronLionZion]

164. McClurkin was raped several times since he was 8 years old

and was a homosexual for much of his life

but nobody gives a fuck about that. It's best to zero in on his homophobic (self-hating) views and use it to attack Obama. McClurkin's views are obviously NOT Obama's views.

[terrya]

165. So, it's ok to display bigotry and intolerance towards an entire community?

I just don't understand how this can be justified by what happened when he was young. I had nothing to do with his being raped, but I'm told that I'm "cursed" and need to be "cured"?

[IronLionZion]

171. Obama has NOT said any of those things and is NOT guilty by association

It's not OK to "display bigotry and intolerance towards an entire community" and it's not OK to attack Obama simply because this one bigot is campaigning for him. That's my key point.

Regardless of his very wrong views, it was terrible what happened to McClurkin when he was young and I bet it had a profound psychological effect on him still today. I haven't seen much sympathy for this fellow from anyone here.

My views on this are solid. You're more than welcome to disagree with me.

[closeupready]

166. Um ... sexual orientation can't be changed, so

I don't understand what you mean by "was a homosexual for much of his life."

But Obama gives tacit support to McClurkin and his very public views in doing this.

[IronLionZion]

173. Are you sure about that? nt

[closeupready]

177. You know something which the vast majority of mental health professionals today do NOT?

Could you change your sexual orientation?

[IronLionZion]

179. So is he straight or gay then?

or maybe it's not a simple black and white issue?

[Solon]

182. He could be bisexual, and therefore neither straight nor gay...

therefore he would have misconstrued his own "homosexual" feelings when he says he struggled with them. But in any case, he's still a closeted homophobe.

[closeupready]

184. I don't know. He may not know himself. That is,

he may be bisexual but was taught, like a lot of people raised in Anglo culture, that a single drop of homosexual feeling, attraction, or act made a man totally homosexual. So for many years he believed that, despite some heterosexual feelings, that he really was gay, because that's what he'd been taught. Then again, maybe he still is gay, after all, and just deluding himself.

But sexual orientation is permanent, whatever it is.

[IronLionZion]

186. fair enough...and I'm sure he has a lot of mental issues he needs to work out nt

[Solon]

168. Oh, so that makes it OK then? n/t

[IronLionZion]

172. It's never OK, but Obama is definitely NOT expressing those views is he? nt

[Solon]

183. No, but he legitamizes such views in venues like this concert tour. n/t

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

169. The majority of child molesters and serial killers were abused as children

But I seldom see them being cut any slack on DU.

GW Bush was raised by monstrous republicans... everyone has the history they have.

[IronLionZion]

174. they don't need any slack

but it's bad when nobody cares or even mentions it. Nature vs. nurture. Nurture is a powerful factor.

[IndianaJones]

170. whats with the homosexuals zeroing in on homophobia? are they insane? nt.

[IronLionZion]

175. The homophobia is part of the bigger picture.

There's more to people than meets the eye. And Obama has NOT expressed any homophobic views and should not be held guilty by association.

[IndianaJones]

178. theres more to the homophobe than meets the eye? what...he doesn't like Jews either....

and Obama does bear some responsibility. He could dump the guy for one.

[IronLionZion]

180. He's supporting a good progressive candidate who wants to help people for one

like I said, there's more to a person than meets the eye. And I don't hold Obama responsible for anyone else's views. It's fine that you disagree with me. I don't even know why I'm defending Obama when he's not my candidate.

[IndianaJones]

181. He's losing the support of people that he should care about losing. nt.

[IronLionZion]

185. Make your statement at the ballot box...and with your wallet.

There are other candidates. Kucinich and Gravel are very good on gay rights. I think all of our Dems support civil unions.