Why should Obama pull this McClurkin guy from the campaign event?

[calteacherguy]

He's already saying he disagrees completely with his viewpoint. And is McClurkin speaking at the event? Isn't he just performing a song or something?

As Clinton supporter, I'd like to know what the big deal is about this. Isn't it better to publically disagee with someone and try to bring them around to your point of view than ostracize them? By letting the guy perform, but condeming his views, he is inviting people in, not excluding folks.

Isn't politics supposed to be about persuasion and engagement?

[dsc]

Imagine it were Michael Richards telling jokes

does that give you some idea what the problem is?

[dbackjon]

1. Because this is the same as inviting a KKK or Nazi to your event

[calteacherguy]

4. Can someone provide me with quotes of what he said, exactly?

I thought he said he thought for him, personally, homosexuality was wrong according to his religious beliefs.

[dbackjon]

5. It has been posted in a number of threads

He believes that gays are evil, and should be destroyed....

[calteacherguy]

10. He actually said that "gays are evil and should be destroyed."

link?

[calteacherguy]

14. O.K....I found something he actually said:

FREEPORT, N.Y. — Gospel singer Donnie McClurkin said he knows from personal experience that God offers an exit for people who don’t want to be gay.
The Grammy Award-winning singer, who pastors a church in New York, told Religion and Ethics Newsweekly that after being molested as a boy his “desires were toward men.”
But he said, “God gave me the wherewithal to get out of that and find out who I really am.”
“That’s how the change took place, the different scriptures in the Bible, his will being shown through the scriptures,” McClurkin said. “God walked me through it.”
McClurkin said that he tells others “who are looking for that exit” that God can “do it for them.”


He just says "others who are looking for that exit," and by extension my share his same religious views. He's not saying as someone said in this thread that "all gays should be destroyed."

http://worshippingchristian.org/blog/?p=634

There is a difference between a personal religious view for oneself and bigotry. That's what I'm trying to figure out here...which is it?

[Clintonista2]

9. I'll sum it up for you:

Homosexuality is a "curse", and there is a war on homosexuality in which he is proud to be fighting.

[calteacherguy]

11. I guess I'll have to google and find the exact quotes. Nobody seems to want to provide me with one.

nt

[Clintonista2]

13. Uhh I made a post yesterday with the exact quotes, to which you replied "This is a stupid post"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3631428

[calteacherguy]

15. Nothing wrong with this (except in my opinon a messed up spirituality)

" "The abnormal use of my sexuality continued until I came to realize that I was broken and that homosexuality was not God's intention for my masculinity." - Obama campaigner Donnie McClurkin

He was talking about himself, personally. The other two are taken out of context...I'd have to see the whole context to pass judgment. In any case he DOES NOT reflect Obama's views.

[Clintonista2]

17. "Taken out of context"

Straight out of O'reilly's playbook, eh?

[calteacherguy]

19. Look, I support Clinton, but I'm trying to get to the truth here.

Perhaps the truth is what you say, but I want direct quotes in context.

[Clintonista2]

23. You like to say that a lot, as if it's a defense

I don't care who you support. I really don't. If you're defending this bigot, which you are, then maybe you should be supporting Obama, not Hillary.

[calteacherguy]

34. Nonsense. He's said what people do in their bedroom is thier own business.

You are spewing accusations with no backup!

[cuke]

42. No ,he said what people do in their bedrooms is not who they are

And he's wrong about that too. Men who have sex with other men in the bedroom are homosexuals. McBigot hates homosexuality

[calteacherguy]

44. Would you deny his right to choose his own life path?

He's not suggesting everyone must agree with him.

[cuke]

45. Huh?

What does that mean? We're talking about whether or not he should be allowed to perform as part of Obama's gospel tour, not the bigot's "life path"

[Clintonista2]

46. Of course not. I wouldn't deny Obama his right to choose his own life path, either.

So don't try to deny OUR own life path when we say that we won't support Obama in pandering to this man.

[DemFemme]

21. Well, McClurkin "does not" support anti-homosexual discrimination

McClurkin said he does not believe in discriminating against homosexuals. "What people do in their bedrooms and who they are as human beings are two different things," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071023/ap_on_el_pr/obama_gospel_singer_3;_ylt=Ak3FgyafuXXAy7v3_SFcqghh24cA

[Sandaasu]

29. Oh, but there's the other

"I don't believe that it is the intention of God," McClurkin said Monday in a telephone interview.

Sounds like he still holds to the beliefs that he has been quoted on before. Sure, he's never said "Gays must convert or go to hell," but "God doesn't like you as you really are now, and you can, and should change," boils down to being the same thing.

[calteacherguy]

37. That's his personal religious belief.

He's chosen the religion he has on his own life path. I don't agree, but it's his choice.

He's made explicit statements that he is not demanding his views be adopted by others.

[Sandaasu]

40. He doesn't have to demand it.

Perhaps you don't understand. The claim that someone can change their sexuality like that is IN ITSELF hate speech to us. He then adds religious reasoning to it, saying that it's "abominable" and various other things like that.

Even if he doesn't insist that others take the same path, he gives others the idea to do it, along with a big helping false hope. That path too often leads to pain, depression, and even suicide.

[DemFemme]

38. He's like many in the black, white, etcetera community that way, like it or not

Apparently, McClurkin is not one of those homo haters on the right. His background (being raped at eight by a man) may also inform his opinion.

[calteacherguy]

33. Thanks! I've learned enough in this thread to feel better about what Obama has done.

I think he responded appropriately, and my respect for him is intact...although still not my first choice, I respect Obama's political courage in reaching out to those who do not share our views.

[DemFemme]

39. You're welcome. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

24. Has McClurkin threatened homosexuals with violence?

[DemFemme]

31. No (see my post above). n/t

[Solon]

2. Because he is a bigoted asshole.

Really, why the fuck is this even subject to debate?

[calteacherguy]

6. What did he say, exactly?

I thought he said he wanted to change himself because of his religious views. Did he suggest to impose those views on others?

[Sandaasu]

18. Here's a sample.

"Well, like I said, there was a big 20-year gap of sexual ambiguity where after the rape my desires were toward men, and I had to fight those things because I knew that it wasn't what we were taught in church was right. And the older I got, the more that became a problem, because those were the first two sexual relationships that I had. Eight years old and 13 years old. So that's what I was molded into. And I fought that. When I tell you from eight to 28, that was my fight -- in the church. And you were in an environment where there were hidden, you know, vultures I call them, that are hidden behind frocks and behind collars and behind -- you know, reverends and the deacons, and it becomes a preying ground, a place where the prey is hunted, and that was what it was like. And for 20 years, trying to find who I was, trying to define myself and my lust pulling me one way or my passions pulling me one way and my spiritual conviction pulling me the other. And I was never one that would say, "This is who I am. This is just who I am." Because there was something that I read in the Bible and that had been preached for too long that said it was the exact opposite.

And finally God started showing me some things in the Bible, in Ecclesiastes. "To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven." There's a time to love, and a time to hate. And they'd preached about the time to love, but nobody had really told me about the time to hate, and then God started making it plain to me the things to hate. You don't hate the people, but there are certain things that are against God that may be in you that you have got to learn how to hate, even though it's in you. It's not self-hatred, of yourself, but there are certain things like, you know, anybody who has a lying problem; they get to the point where they hate being so, having such a lack of character that they make a change. And so on and so on. Whatever a person finds in themselves that is really counterproductive to them being the best that they can be -- you learn how to despise that and cause a change, and that is what exactly happened to me. I had to be a man that was made for a woman. I wanted a family, I wanted a home, I wanted the whole lot of it. This was a problem to me. And God gave me the wherewithal to get out of that and to find out who I really am. And, consequently, that's how the change took place -- the different scriptures in the Bible, his will being shown through the scriptures.

Once I got to that point and that determination hit -- that just because this happened to me doesn't mean that this is who I've got to be -- that's when the change started taking place and God walked me through it until I became the Donnie that you see sitting in front of you. A little shabby, but it's still the Donnie you see sitting in front of you. And there are other men and women, boys and girls that are going through the same thing.

There's a group that says, "God made us this way," but then there's another group that knows God didn't make them that way. And for those that are looking for that exit, there are those of us, -- and I'm not a lone wolf; there are many more -- that can tell that God did it for us and he will do it for them, and consequently we see it happening here in this church quite consistently."

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week836/interview.html

Condensed: Being gay is bad, caused by trauma. It's like being a liar, and anyone who is homosexual should feel a need to change. So, by really, really wanting it and praying for it, I became straight, and you can too!

That kind of talk has caused immense psychological damage to many of us, even to the point that many have killed themselves. To us, it is very dangerous hate speech.

[calteacherguy]

25. I don't see anything here that should prevent him from performing at Obama's rally

You don't hate the people,..There's a group that says, "God made us this way," but then there's another group that knows God didn't make them that way. And for those that are looking for that exit, there are those of us, -- and I'm not a lone wolf; there are many more -- that can tell that God did it for us and he will do it for them, and consequently we see it happening here in this church quite consistently."

O.K., two groups. He's inviting those who agree with him and are gay to join the church and make the change. He's not saying everyone should share his view.

thanks, this clarifies a lot. I agree with Obama on this...disagree but don't ostracize people because of their personal religious beliefs. You don't hate people.

[cuke]

27. He says he hates homosexuality

Are you OK with someone who thinks (and preaches) that it's OK to hate homosexuality?

[calteacherguy]

30. He says "don't hate the people."

Clearly, he hated the homosexuality for himself personally. That's his choice. That doesn't mean he hates people.

I disagree with his views as strongly as Obama, but folks are entitled to make their own choices in life, and follow their own path.

[Sandaasu]

32. He passes that view onto others.

He goes around telling kids that they can change as he claims to have done. He says that God doesn't like homosexuals as they are. This is very, very dangerous stuff.

[cuke]

35. Don't you think that's an irresponsible thing to say?

Given the recent spate of homophobic anti-gay rights referendums, don't you think it's irresponsible to preach about hating homosexuality to a crowd known for hating homosexuals?

[Solon]

20. Let's see, he called Homosexuality a curse, said that homosexuals are broken and can be...

saved through the glory of Jesus Christ. He also attacked a gay friendly high school, is against Gay Marriage, etc. Do I need to go on?

[calteacherguy]

26. Just give me one direct link for any of that.

Being against gay marriage shouldn't prevent one from performing at a poltiical event. I don't believe in litmus tests. We need to bring people over to our point of view, we have to engage people in discussion and debate.

[Solon]

41. There's a thread right on the front page of GD:P with some of his statements...

Look, you seem to be avoiding the issue entirely, if you have a problem with gay people, fine, get off this damned board!

[cuke]

3. Because McClurken doesn't have to be on stage to talk to Obama

He's performing. It's free publicity and raises his credibility

[calteacherguy]

8. How does it raise his credibility on the issue if Obama so strongly disagrees?

[cuke]

12. Because Obama's statement of disagreement won't be performed over the PA

McBigot's performance will

[calteacherguy]

16. But will his views? Do some of his songs say homosexual folks are evil? nt

[cuke]

22. I assume that people who go to a gospel event, like gospel music

and therefore, the people of the state, where McBigot comes from, know about him.

IOW, the gospel lovers of SC will know about the background of the most famous gospel singer in SC

[calteacherguy]

28. I would assume so...

but all I have found is a guy saying he personally felt homosexuality was wrong for him and tried to change. I think that's unhealthy, but it doesn't make him evil or a bigot.

[cuke]

36. You're being very naive

if you don't see the danger of preaching a hate for homosexuality to a group known for hating homosexuals

[Bluebear]

43. "THE GLOVES ARE OFF! NO FUNDING FOR A GAY SCHOOL!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3632273&mesg_id=3632273

He would rather deny gay and lesbian youth a safe place to receive their education, free from the threat of violence.

[Joe the Revelator]

47. Well, I agree with him here...

I don't support tax money going toward any special interest school.

[cuke]

51. What is a "Special Interest School"?

[dbackjon]

7. Maybe Obama should have Prussian Blue sing at a campaign rally

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Blue_%28duo%29

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

48. You are reading a bit much into Obama's statement.

He didn't say, "I disagree with him because gay people are not defective, and being gay is not a choice, or a disease to be cured, or a demon to be exorcised."

What he said boils down to "Blacks and gays should work together, SO I disagree with this gut's views." The views are not characterized. The nature of the disagreement is not characterized. And the reason for disagreement is stated as arising from the need for blacks and gays to get along, not arising from any theory of gay rights.

Read the statement and you'll see what I'm saying.

And, lest one think I have read too much (or too little) into it... puh-lease. You know they spent hours on this, considering every word. It is a crafted document, not an off-the-cuff comment.

The bottom line is that the statement is intentionally devoid of meaning.

[illinoisprogressive]

49. The bots want this to be a big deal because, I mean, hillary is not exactly dem of the year...lol

[Forkboy]

50. Only a lot of us dislike Hillary more than we do Obama.

But facts have never been important to you.

As for the bot thing...have you EVER looked at your own posting history.You're the friggin' epitome of bot, and only a handful of fellow groupies take you seriously in any way, shape, or form.You've rendered yourself totally irrelevant here, and while I wouldn't think you have much lower to sink, I'm sure you're going to try.

[AlCzervik]

52. well ain't that the "Bot" calling the kettle "bot".

[AlCzervik]

53. by having him even Sing it basically says "Yeah, i like this guy".