Obama's method of "courting the religious" doesn't seem to make much sense

[PurityOfEssence]

The assumption in these parts is that by appealing to the faithful with public religion as a necessary or at least prominent aspect of one's political motivation, one can peel away some of the believers from the conservatives.

I just don't buy it.

There are a couple of huge elephants in the room that get very little bandwidth around here as they relate to the primary contenders: race and gender. The latter's for another thread, but the former's a big issue.

The Democrats already have the black vote, by an overwhelming majority. If Obama thinks he's going to get significantly MORE blacks by appealing in this way, he needs to sit down and do some math, because that would mean he's trying to peel away the remaining ten percent of an eighth of the population. Let's call that one percent. (Okay, 1.2 percent, but it's getting sillier...)

Now, let's take the bull by the horns here: many southern and midwestern bible-belters are EXTREMELY racist. It's hardly a vicious stereotype to say so; hell, the Southern Baptists were CREATED over the rift of slavery within their church. If Obama thinks he's going to win these people over with images of big, old-time non-white gospel gatherings, someone's been feeding him a load of hooey.

Racist white fundamentalists ABHOR the sight of gospel choirs and black people shouting out with agreement to the preacher. Their racist embers get all aglow with righteous disgust at this sight: it flies in the face of their solemn ritual and it grates on them no end. It doesn't even play all that well with the charismatics and other vocal-showy believers. How's this going to peel away fundamentalists from the right wing?

Courting the faithful is one thing; endorsing them is another. Regardless, this just doesn't seem all that fruitful a venture, and much as many of the anti-religious types like me will still stick with him while he uses this divisive and dangerous crap, it leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

What does this accomplish? Who does this bring into the fold who isn't already there, and doesn't it revulse some of the fundies it's supposedly designed to sway?

Besides all that, the hand-in-hand relationship between christianity in the black community and homophobia creates a rift that just wastes a lot of time. Why court a constituency that we've already pretty much got, especially when it drives away people we have or would like to get?

This is meant to spark some thinking and rational response, so I apologize in advance for the obvious racism, orientationism and assorted other bashing that obviously gushes from my wicked soul. (I'll take the hits for the religion derision, though...)

Your thoughts?

[Kagemusha]

1. Obama should retire from public life. There is no hope for his kind in America.

That's what I think, based on the entirety of your well-considered statement.

Hope really is too damned audacious. The only political vehicle for blacks in America is a white woman.

[Chovexani]

3. Word.

So much fail in one OP.

[Chovexani]

2. My thoughts are that you have no idea how the black community works.

I'm not faulting you for that, because you didn't grow up in the black church and you're not culturally familiar with it.

But there are a hell of a lot of subtleties here that you're missing. Obama knows what time it is.

[PurityOfEssence]

4. Believe me, I'm ready for some education here...

Is this merely an issue for the primary? Is this an appeal to familiarity to pull people away from Clinton, Edwards or others?

I was addressing this as more of a general election strategy, and for that, it's literally preaching to the choir: trying to convert the already converted with the unfortunate side-effect of irritating those who are supposedly being targeted for conversion.

I suppose when the South Carolina Primary is the subject it's valuable, but how does it play elsewhere? Won't there be some repercussions, or is the theory just to target a strategic early state and hope there's no fallout? At the heart of it, it's an "us or them" approach, which is inherently divisive in a number of ways. Isn't that a bit risky?

[Connie_Corleone]

7. It's not about the general election. This is a primary strategy.

Clinton is leading among black potential voters in South Carolina. The gospel tour is a way to attract black voters. Many black voters in South Carolina are evangelical christians and the singers chosen are very popular among black church going folks.

My aunts and some of my friends listen to the same singers.

[Chovexani]

14. This is all about the primary.

I can only speak for the folks I know, but most of my friends and family are Clinton supporters. Call it the Bill legacy effect. I really think this is about Obama trying to court black folks away from her.

It's a fine, fine line with religion and politics in the black community and Obama is playing this smartly, as much as I hate Donnie McClurkin (and I can't fucking stand his hateful, likely DL ass). I'm glad that Obama also issued a statement repudiating his homophobia.

Very smart stuff. I have to admit being lukewarm about Obama until this point but I've been impressed lately.

[David Zephyr]

5. Barack has done well with the mega-church crowd.

Barack has spoken up about AIDS and the other side of Christianity to several mega-churches where he has been warmly received. He's doing what they all are doing, going after votes. I don't see this as a bad thing, but a good thing. Hopefully, his message will remind them that Jesus never spoke of abortion, gays and had little regard for war and neglecting the poor.

While I'm here, your guy, John Edwards is really racking up a lot of impressive union endorsements which will bode very well for him in the early primary states and especially in Iowa. And all of the polls, for what they are worth, in Iowa are only of registered voters, not caucus goers, and that is where John has a lot of leverage.

If John wins Iowa, Hillary might be in big trouble quickly. An Iowa win by Edwards will immediately propel him upwards in South Carolina. I don't know how he's doing in New Hampshire. The "Independent" voters there control the game and I think a lot of them will go with Ron Paul to upset the applecart as they did with McCain against Bush in 2000.

Edwards really aced his time with Bill Maher. He ate up the scenery. I admire his tenacity. He just doesn't give up. That says a lot.

[PurityOfEssence]

11. Hell of an interesting horse-race, isn't it?

Once again, I keep thinking what a ripping good read this would by by some fireplace twenty years in the future after things worked out well, but the stakes are so high. We're truly at a pivotal point in history, and things could go really well, really badly or many different versions of the inbetweens.

Not being a sports fan at all, politics fills that niche in my consciousness, and this one is a truly fascinating exercise.

I just wish the primary season wasn't so damned short.

From a purely primary sense as it regards South Carolina, I suppose this isn't such a bad move; he needs to strip away those Clinton voters in the Black community, and playing the god card can hardly hurt down there. Still, though, he has to be very careful about somehow becoming "the black candidate"; that's just not enough constituency to bring a victory.

The guy's got remarkable appeal across lines I never would have suspected: a couple of my religious, racist, conservative relatives really like the guy. I hear that from other conservative friend and acquaintances, too, and that's great. Something like a continued approach along these lines could really trip him up within those groups, though, and that would be unfortunate.

Regardless of this cycle, he's got a great future, and I'd hate to see him get marginalized by race.

I still don't think Clinton can win a general election, except when thinking about the sheer buffoons lined up in the other party at the moment. I also just can't stand her and her policies in ways I can hardly express no matter how continuously I do.

Obama's got a chance in the general election, and much as I can't stand the religion crap, the coziness with Medicine Incorporated and am wary of some of the blithe mis-speaking about important matters, I like the guy and pretty much trust him. His very election would be a great statement.

Edwards, of course, I think the world of, but he may just be a victim of incredibly bad timing two times in a row. If so, he could be a wasted asset of a statesman the likes of Gary Hart, and that would be sad. Still, he's going to have a hand in the direction of the country, so not getting the nomination wouldn't be the end of the world.

Nice post. Glad you're having a good time and you've really been adding a lot to the discourse of late. (I stayed out of the prayer rug thread; saving my ammunition for other Clinton-antics...)

[David Zephyr]

18. Howdy.

I'm off to New York tomorrow in the morning hoping my home doesnt' burn away while I'm gone. I just went through this with the Grand Prix fire. I've got a house sitter.

It is a horse race and I don't think Hillary has it all sewed up anymore.

My 90 year old mom likes John Edwards the best and she loves Elizabeth. So...

I run into a lot of people here who see red when Hillary's name comes up.

Always good to hear from you. I'll be posting from the Catskills by tomorrow. Halloween night I'm in Salem, MA. Tough life, huh?

[lifewithryan]

15. I totally Agree

Appealing to the Christian right could peel enough people the "christian but not fanatic" believers away from the conservative vote. Even some of these believers are fed up with GOP. I think he's more likely to peel them away than Hilary. I STILL don't understand though, why those two don't join forces...but what do I know about that anyway :)

Just a thought :)
http://pol.itik.us

[Connie_Corleone]

6. Obama needs the black vote in South Carolina for the primary.

This isn't about the general election. The gospel singers on the tour are very popular among black conservative christians. And there are a lot of religious black people in South Carolina.

Even though they may have a different opinion when it comes to homosexuality, most will vote for Democrats because they are not one issue voters. But, it's the primary that matters.

White racists really aren't the issue since they weren't going to vote for Obama anyway.

[zulchzulu]

8. You obviously don't know any progressive Christians

I do.

They are not racist or homophobes. Some are even black!

Part of Obama's strategy with the religious community is to prove the point that the GOP hasn't hijacked God. There is an opportunity to get more people who are spiritual to vote Democratic.

[PurityOfEssence]

12. That's just ludicrous from every angle

If they're "progressive", they don't have to be wooed with religion; they should be courted with policy. If they're "progressive christians", they're probably going to vote Democratic anyway.

Not only do I get around, I REALLY get around. I'm in a very person-oriented business and deal with many individuals from many different professions in most parts of the country and abroad. I've lived in Midwest, the Northeast, the South and both Northern and Southern California. My relatives are mostly in the South these days, and I visit them regularly. Business has taken me to many different regions of the country and abroad and it has me dealing with a wide range of social groups.

Not only that, much of how I make my living is assessing the character of individuals and doing a lot of hiring, supervising and, when necessary, firing. If my senses weren't pretty decent, I'd have washed out of this silliness YEARS ago.

My spouse and kids and I are among the very few non-religious types in our extended family, and we're all in very good contact. One would have to be a monk in a cave to not have numerous contacts among progressive christians in this part of L.A., so enough of that.

Sheesh.

[zulchzulu]

13. I've travelled as much as you have based on what you said

I don't understand how you can seriously say by inference that there is no use trying to get the religious voter. I go to progressive Christian conventions now and then with an uncle who used to be a priest. I'll be with him at one in a month. There are thousands of progressive Christians (otherwise known to me as real followers of Jesus) who always are put off by what they consider secular Democrats that have some issues with their spirituality.

Not every Christian is a racist or a homophobe. Many are independent voters looking for a political party that isn't too jacked up on the Religious Reich traits and foibles. These are people from the Northeast (where I was raised), the South (New Orleans and beyond), West (Bay area and traveled up and down coast) and live in the Midwest (where I am presently).

People who paint religious/spiritual people as some kind of hateful cartoon are missing the point and are generally wrong. I've talked with many people who are religious in recent grassroots efforts and many are willing to overlook their "pro-life" attitudes and look at the war more importantly.

[Didereaux]

9. Supporters notwithstanding, Obama made a HUGE tactical blunder.... n/t

[killbotfactory]

10. Here is an article Obama wrote long before he had presidential ambition

It's about community organizing, why it needs to be done, and why the church can play a powerful role.

In theory, community organizing provides a way to merge various strategies for neighborhood empowerment. Organizing begins with the premise that (1) the problems facing inner-city communities do not result from a lack of effective solutions, but from a lack of power to implement these solutions; (2) that the only way for communities to build long-term power is by organizing people and money around a common vision; and (3) that a viable organization can only be achieved if a broadly based indigenous leadership — and not one or two charismatic leaders — can knit together the diverse interests of their local institutions.

This means bringing together churches, block clubs, parent groups and any other institutions in a given community to pay dues, hire organizers, conduct research, develop leadership, hold rallies and education cam­paigns, and begin drawing up plans on a whole range of issues — jobs, education, crime, etc. Once such a vehicle is formed, it holds the power to make politicians, agencies and corporations more responsive to commu­nity needs. Equally important, it enables people to break their crippling isolation from each other, to reshape their mutual values and expectations and rediscover the possibilities of acting collaboratively — the prerequi­sites of any successful self-help initiative.

(snip)

Nowhere is the promise of organizing more apparent than in the traditional black churches. Possessing tremendous financial resources, membership and — most importantly — values and biblical traditions that call for empowerment and liberation, the black church is clearly a slumbering giant in the political and economic landscape of cities like Chicago. A fierce independence among black pastors and a preference for more traditional approaches to social involvement (supporting candidates for office, providing shelters for the homeless) have prevented the black church from bringing its full weight to bear on the political, social and economic arenas of the city.

Over the past few years, however, more and more young and forward-thinking pastors have begun to look at community organizations such as the Developing Communities Project in the far south side and GREAT in the Grand Boulevard area as a powerful tool for living the social gospel, one which can educate and empower entire congregations and not just serve as a platform for a few prophetic leaders. Should a mere 50 prominent black churches, out of the thousands that exist in cities like Chicago, decide to collaborate with a trained organizing staff, enormous positive changes could be wrought in the education, housing, employment and spirit of inner-city black communities, changes that would send powerful ripples throughout the city.

http://www.edwoj.com/Alinsky/AlinskyObamaChapter1990.htm

Does that help?

The stakes are too great right now to put up with all this divide and conquer bullshit on the democrats side.

[killbotfactory]

16. No response?

Oh well.

[Imagevision]

17. Obama, the best things that's happened since RFK... aanyone saying no

has never heard the man give a speech...!

[MethuenProgressive]

19. He's courting the $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

He knows what's important to him.