I never understood Log Cabin Republicans before this week

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

But after seeing the startling level of pissy irritation with and dismissal of gay people here on a progressive web site I am starting to get it. If this is as inclusive as the American political spectrum gets I can see why some gay people say, "Fuck it... if I'm going to be treated like a freak either way I might as well take the tax cuts."

What really set me off is...

1) That so many people seem to view a person's innate sexual orientation as roughly equivalent to a person's voluntarily adopted prejudices, as long as those prejudices can be cast as religiously inspired. Religion should not be seen as a magic potion that sanctifies views that would be offensive if arrived at through some other process.

and

2) That the reliably over-reactive DU community barely turned a hair over Senator Obama's offensively inoffensive "clear the air" statement. I will support Obama to the end if he is our nominee. My beef here is with this statement, which is a campaign tactic, not with the man.

Read the statement for what it actually says, not as what one assumes it says. There is precious little sense in it that bigotry is evil. The problem with bigotry is presented as that it is divisive... that it impedes the cooperation of Democratic constituencies... that it impedes AIDS screening... Any fair reading reveals that the campaign's chief concern in crafting the statement was to not offend a certain South Carolina constituency by calling bigotry evil.

And only a handful of people around here even noticed it. "Oh good, he denounced that guy." Except he did not denounce him at all. He said he disagrees with the guy's views, but doesn't name those views he disagrees with because he does not want to risk alienating people with precisely those views.

Read that statement as if it were about race, rather than sexual identity, and ask yourself what decade would it be from? "I have stated my belief that negroes are our brothers and sisters..." I'd say somewhere between 1840-1960. At some point in time people stopped preening themselves for their novel belief that black people are human. "We must set aside our prejudice toward the negro because doing so will assist us in identifying and treating infectious diseases..." Not because prejudice is wrong, evil, wicked, corrupt, disgusting... but because reducing prejudice might reap practical benefits.

He ended with the statement that his presidency would be about "tolerance instead of division." What the fuck is that? The correct words are "Equality, instead of Injustice." "tolerance instead of division" sounds like something Truman would have said when he desegregated the armed forces in the late 1940s.

I had no idea our GLBT brothers and sisters had quite this far to go.
_____________________________________

Original campaign statement on the Donnie McClurkin business: "I have clearly stated my belief that gays and lesbians are our brothers and sisters and should be provided the respect, dignity, and rights of all other citizens. I have consistently spoken directly to African-American religious leaders about the need to overcome the homophobia that persists in some parts our community so that we can confront issues like HIV/AIDS and broaden the reach of equal rights in this country.

I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin’s views and will continue to fight for these rights as President of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division."

[dsc]

1. Honestly speaking

this is the worst I have felt about DU in quite a while.

[JackBeck]

24. You are not alone.

It can be exhausting keeping up with all the misinformation spewed around here of late.

[ruggerson]

2. You're asking some people to apply critical analysis

to words regarding a subject many haven't given more to than lip service, if that.

Every word you wrote is absolutely dead on target.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. I feel bad about banging Obama about it, because it's a coast-to-coast problem

This is just the first time in recent memory a Dem candidate has openly courted an anti-gay constituency as an organized campaign strategy.

Everybody takes the endorsements as they blow through the church circuit, but this was a wider, more sophisticated strategy, and should be nipped in the bud.

The generational divide in attitudes about gays is so profound that time will solve this problem, but we shouldn't embarass ourselves TOO much while waiting for the genrational change.

[Marrah_G]

3. I'm sorry you are feeling so let down

My respect for Obama dropped alot over this. I want a President who can stand up and say "I find your opinion disgusting and I won't have a bigot in my campaign". Any kind of bigot.

I agree if this was someone openly against a certain race there would never have been an issue, that person never would have been invited to be involved in his campaign.

I'm sorry you have been hurt.

:hug:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. I'm straight, so I'm more embarrassed than hurt... feeling apologetic for sins of my kind

[terrya]

4. Remarkable.

Spot-on perfect.

Excellent analysis.

[Fridays Child]

5. DU's increasing intolerance is very distressing.

It really does seem to be happening across the board--literally. I don't think LGBT people are the only targets. I wish I could blame it all on so-called newbies but, sadly, I've seen very unkind posts coming from some long time members around here.

[truedelphi]

27. The intolerance was at ridiculous levels today as some at DU

Posted that the "rich" in California had it coming to them for living in expensive housing.

I don't get intolerance. I mean, my mother was intolerant - she was raised that way. But I was thinking just a while ago how our society had evolved.

But we now have people who feel it's okay that a huge corner of a country is burning to the ground and it's okay because rich people are getting theirs. ??!!#?

It does cheer me to come on board tonight and read this OP. I wasn't up on the controversy - have not been worrying about any of the candidates lately and what they are up to. This oP is the first apology I ever read on board this forum - and it was not just an apology but very instructional (I've caught up on an entire week's worth of Obama events because of it.)

My sincerest hopes are that those on DU who are intolerant, unwilling and/or unable to become more aware of everyone's right to live and be allowed to live without being cursed, feared, hated, or discriminated against will find some other BBS to go play on.

[varkam]

7. Agree with you 100%. K&R

[babylonsister]

8. I think you should send this to the Obama campaign post haste.

I really like him, want to like him, but you are right. He's hedging for political purposes when he should have a standard and live by it.
If it's just about the numbers he's trying to impress, what is he about?

[we can do it]

21. I Agree with You & I've Been Hurt By Black Friends That Basically Agree with Him

When one human tells another that their civil rights don't equate with theirs. I had a friend say our struggle can't compare - excuse me? When have you walked in my shoes - at least careful bigots can see that you are black and save their hurtful comments til they're not around.

[NC_Nurse]

10. I am very disappointed in Obama for this episode.

I am disgusted by this whole blending of "faith" and politics and continue to be
surprised and disappointed by how far candidates will go to court the "faith-based"
voters. It hurts all of us, but especially those who don't fit into their supposedly
positive agenda.
:puke:

[MADem]

11. We had a little chat about this yesterday evening. I'm glad you made this its own thread.

I found your careful and thorough breakdown of his commentary right on the mark.

You are quite right, that it was a statement that sounded good--it checked the denouncement block--but it didn't go where it really needed to go. When I initially saw it, I was one of those "Phew" types--but then, when I actually read the words in the statement, the "Phew" became a bit of an "Ewwww..." I'll tell ya, the cognitive dissonance is enormous.

Hopefully, he'll take it further and be a bit more forceful, and clear, in subsequent comments. He needs to. If he doesn't do that, I don't know if it will fall by the wayside and be forgotten quite so easily.

I don't think this is going to slide--I might be mistaken, but it feels like a problem to me.

And I absolutely do NOT think that Obama is "anti-gay." I think he's taking some pisspoor advice.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

15. This was bound to happen. This is why "unity" doesn't work as a message, because

even though it sounds good, when push comes to shove people are not unified, and saying "Unity!" doesn't make it so.

So any "unity" campaign is forced into deeper and deeper hypocrisies when it has to get specific, trying to paper over very real differences.

The traditional approach is to give each constituency enough to keep them happy, while keeping them separate. That's cynical old-school politics. It also happens to be the correct way to govern 300 million people, rather than pretending everyone agrees on everything.

The internet and videocams don't help matters. In the old days you could give entirely different speechs to different groups. But today everyone sees everything.

[MADem]

17. That's it, succinctly. LBJ woulda had a helluva time trying to keep the

factions happy in these times--the "Johnson treatment" wouldn't have been enough.

You've done some very solid analysis of this matter. I agree with your take on it.

[rucky]

12. He just should've never gone there in the first place.

There was no classy way out of this one.

[MADem]

19. I am of the opinion that it was part and parcel of a "South Carolina Strategy"

I am speculating that his own internal polling is telling him that he's going to have to break out there, that perhaps Iowa and NH aren't good bets, and he might not do as well as he hopes in one or both of those contests.

I could be mistaken, but it seems to me that this Gospel Game Plan is jarring--it does not, based on my following of his campaign, 'flow' with the rest of the decisions he's made. It's almost as though his staff has told him "Look, it's cool--you jettison the gays JUST FOR AWHILE, then after you win SC, you snuggle back up again. They'll forgive you, they always do. They'll come back and know that you didn't really mean it. But you GOTTA win SC to stay in the game, now, Barack."

Maybe I'm way off. It's just an off-putting decision he's made, IMO, and the follow on 'explanation' didn't help, either.

I think he still has time to back away and make some sort of FORCEFUL statement. But he needs to do it soon.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

20. If he throws the traditionalist church crowd overboard he's probably sunk in SC, but I will

be far more likely to support him in 2016 whens he's ready for the real run.

[MADem]

22. I wrote up a little "what I think he should do" post on another thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3636359&mesg_id=3638816

(You're the one I was talking about when I spoke of the cogent breakdown of Obama's comments in that post, FWIW!) Anyway, that was my advice to the Senator.

I noted that if Closet McLurkin there got laryngitis, it might not be a bad thing. I've got advice for HIM, too!!

I'll bet at this point in time, the Obama staff is wishing that someone would find the Rev in the men's room with Larry Craig! That Rev needs to get over his "I'm not GAAAAY!" theme--it's not as if he's saying "I'm not an astronaut." It's more like he's trying to say "I'm a tiger" or "I'm a kitty." No, there, Rev, you're a gay man who hates himself...

Since this guy is apparently quite the singer, and popular, apparently (I have never heard of him, but what do I know--I guess he sells a lot of records DVDs), he's a teachable moment waiting to happen.

But he's at a crossroads, here. He could really do the community he pretends he's not a part of a world of good by coming out. If his music is as good as everyone says it is, I think his fans might stick, especially if he presented his case with a call for understanding. Make those fans do the "Christ-like" thing; surely there's a verse or two the Reverend can find to make his own case.

And music has a way of healing divides--but I guess he's afraid of killing the cash cow, and maybe thinks that he can't transition to a more liberal gospel audience if his old fans fall away, or establish himself in a more liberal church. Fear can be a real pain, I suppose. It's the walls of his closet, I guess.

If he IS that good, he could reinvent himself. And he should. He can't keep living this hateful lie and expect to feel halfway decent about himself, or not have it eat away at his soul.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

23. It would have been SO easy. I posted a big thing Sunday night

about how we need to wait for the campaign to respond before jumping ugly at anyone.

But then the campaign did exactly the wrong thing... the cautious thing. (He's not the front-runner)

Your post is on the money.

I would prefer that Obama remove his sponsorship if that concert rather than booting the singer. The singer is free to sing. The audience is free to enjoy.

Just let it go on without any Obama involvement, because that involvement and the message it sends is the problem.

(It's not like I would go picket if I heard Donnie Mc was playing here in town. He's entitled to his views. I don't like them, but it's a free country.)

[MADem]

25. He still has time, but he's gotta move fast. That window of opportunity is closing.

And when it slams down, he'll find himself with that same expression that Feeelix Macacawitz Allen had on his face when he realized that events had overtaken him.

He's at the point now where he still can fix this. But just fix it, not help himself with it.

You're quite right, if he'd done it your way from the git-go, he would have burnished that image and probably jumped a good five points at least, maybe more if his PR people got it all out there in a big way. And momentum is everything--he could have ju-jitsued this whole mess to his advantage, but now his best hope is to 'fix' it.

The pressure is still on--get a load of this--it's got all sorts of quotations from a variety of sources about the imbroglio (I snagged this via AMERICABLOG): http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obama-pressured-on-gay-cure-preacher-2007-10-24.html

Obama pressured on gay ‘cure’ preacher
By Alexander Bolton
October 24, 2007
The nation’s biggest gay rights group is trying to force Sen. Barrack Obama (D-Ill.) to cancel presidential campaign event with a controversial preacher who claims he was homosexual but has been cured.


The Human Rights Campaign has expressed its strong reservations to Obama over his campaign-sponsored tour that features gospel singer Donnie McClurkin.
The influential organization, representing a powerful Democratic constituency, let Obama’s campaign know that it would issue a public demand if Obama did not immediately cancel the event, said a person who had been briefed on the exchange.


Obama will not be present on the so-called Embrace the Change Tour, but public denouncement by the Human Rights Campaign could damage him...McClurkin is notorious among gay rights activists for fighting what he calls the “curse of homosexuality,” for saying sexual orientation is a choice, and for claiming that homosexuality can be “cured” by prayer.


Obama has drawn intense fire from gay activists and liberal bloggers in recent days for recruiting McClurkin and other gospel singers for a statewide tour of South Carolina...By threatening to weigh in strongly, Human Rights Campaign has elevated what began as a controversy in the blogosphere into a full-fledged dilemma for Obama’s campaign. ......

[intheflow]

13. You are right on the money!

Very well-written. God, can you imagine a candidate saying "I won't have a bigot of any kind on my staff!" It sounds like the stuff of fairy tales at this point. :(

K&R

[JohnnyLib2]

14. Old attitudes are not easily changed. . .

antipathy, intolerance, homophobia -- can be blatant or subtle. It seems to me that once again the spotlight has been turned on this part of life.
It's a long,long battle. No time to falter. GREAT POST.
:thumbsup:

[PurityOfEssence]

16. Religion is the cosmic trump card.

Samuel Johnson was wrong: patriotism is the second to the last refuge of a scoundrel.

I completely disagree with this statement:

"Religion is not a magic potion that sanctifies views that would be offensive if arrived at through some other process."

It most precisely is. It's a deep-dish panacea with a sanctimony garnee.

This is why religion is so incredibly dangerous and this is why it's best kept out of the political sphere. Sure, some people have a real need for the comfort and the feeling of belonging, and it helps many people do good, but its overall net effect is not good, as far as I'm concerned. The major religions have far too many mechanisms built in that are handy to oppress, destroy, control and dismiss; it's the iron stove in the wooden building of civilization: it provides some warmth, but if it isn't watched, it'll burn the place to the ground.

I don't trust people who use it as a means to power and I question the judgment of those who do, even if they're true believers. It's just too malleable for mischief.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

18. Thank you. Your post is so persuasive that I edited the OP

to say "Religion should not be considered magic potion that sanctifies views that would be offensive if arrived at through some other process."

Because you are right. The social regard for religious irreason is indeed magical.

[MadMaddie]

26. Well Obama will not be getting my vote....

he could have chosen from thousands of gospel singers and groups yet he picks this loser.

If he can't make a decent decision concerning a hate monger than as far as I am concerned he has no business making National decisions.

My list is one candidate shorter than it was.