Hilary Clinton "just isn't right for this critical moment in American history, "

[pscot]

Andrew Sullivan has been reading my mind. He sums it up far
more neatly than I could:


http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/

"There are, to me, three core issues in this election:
the Constitution, the war and the environment. All three are
urgent, and the need for deep, radical change overwhelming.
It's vital that the next president not assume and inherit the
kind of extra-legal powers that Bush and Cheney have acquired
as part of what amounts to a protectorate, not a presidency.
The rule of law must be clearly re-established. Only Obama has
the integrity to be trusted on that matter. Clinton will never
have it. It's vital also that the next president be committed
to withdrawal from Iraq as swiftly and as cleanly as possible.
Again: the difference between a triangulating shell of a
politician and an actual human being who was right about this
war in the first place is completely clear. And we need
someone in the administration - Al Gore obviously springs to
mind - who can marshall the country's resources to tackle
climate change and the urgent necessity for new energy
sources. Gore loathes the Clintons as much as anyone, because
he saw them close-up, and knows what their cynical, ruthless
machine is really about: them. On those three issues, Obama is
vastly superior to Clinton, whose history of executive secrecy
and privilege, whose constant triangulation on the war and
whose polarization of the country would make difficult and
real change impossible.

Obama needs to be far more aggressive - but not hostile to
Clinton. She just isn't right for this critical moment in
American history, too inherently divisive to bring this
country back together in an extremely perilous time, too
cautious to effect real change, and still too spooked by
Republicans to do what is needed in Iraq. There's still time
to stop her. But it's running out."

I'm not sure I agree with him that Obama is the answer, but if
the Clintons are to be stopped, those who oppose HRC need to
get behind either Obama or Edwards now. AS Sullivan notes,
time is running out.

[dogman]

1. From the person who thought w was right for that critical moment.

Why is this person relevant to the debate?

[joeybee12]

2. Exactly!

Andrew Sullivan is an arrogant, know-nothing buffoon. The only reason he has a platform is he's a right-wing nutjob who also happens to be gay, and so the main-stream media thinks that's just great.

[hlthe2b]

12. that does say a lot....

regardless of one's support or non-support for Sentator Clinton... This guy's advice, I think we can do without.

[Inspired]

31. Didn't Sullivan support Kerry in '04?

I thought I read somewhere that he did.

[Bitwit1234]

3. Andrew Sullivan a republican who voted for bush

knows everything there is to know about a democrat. What a good job he has done in spewing republican talking points.

I get so sick of the Hillary bashing. From wanting to vote for Edwards these bashers have taken me to wanting Hillary more and more. She must be doing something damn right else they wouldn't be so afraid that she is going to trounce the hell out of their candidate. Obama. Who is proving he is all over the place in this and that. AND NOW HE IS COMING OUT TO BASH HILLARY HIMSELF. I think his type of politics is dirty and we have had to damn much of that already. Why don't these people go try to find something positive about Obama, probably cant', that's why they bash Hillary.

[Auntie Bush]

27. Very well stated.

It's nice to see so many people defending Clinton...for a change... instead of 24/7 posts bashing Clinton. (Probably,hopefully our next president) So we should, as Democrats, be a little kinder to our own and boost up our own candidate. The ReThugs are doing a good enough job so we don't need to help them.

[Bumblebee]

29. Ditto. I am yet to contribute to her but I have stopped

contributing to Edwards.

[phen43]

4. say what you will about Sullivan

But I do believe he is right!!!:patriot:

[MNDemNY]

5. Maybe it's not to late for BHO...

Does Sullivan sing gospel??????:hi:

[Maribelle]

9. He's right, all right. A wingnut, twisted so far to the right his threads are stripped. (n/t)

[DURHAM D]

11. Here is what I will say about your hero -

Andrew hates women. He is the type of gay man who, at a social function, would say upon observing the entry of a lesbian or two into the room - "Who invited the c*nts."

[jonnyblitz]

36. Bareback Andy is one nasty piece of work and a HYPOCRITE,

too, scolding his fellow gays for being promiscuous then placing personal ads requesting UNSAFE SEX when he is HIV+. he is a vile piece of SHIT.

[Maribelle]

6. Poor Andrew.

With all that pomp Andrew spit out in past years bashing every single thing about the Democrats, and at the very same time kissing the rear ends of all of Bush's buddies, he still fails to realize a simple common-sense issue. His trepidation regarding of The Constitution, the war and the environment - - yes all three of them, are of his very own making, and fall conveniently under his umbrella of bashing Democrats. Had fools such as Andrew not support the neoconservative thugs to begin with, well then he wouldn't be sitting perched atop his high horse preaching to those that had already perceived seven years ago what he claims to have found through, perhaps an Epiphany, or perhaps opening his eyes just long enough to read the writing on the walls, today.

The deep and radical changes this nation needs is to first remove all corrupt republicans, such as him.

Democrats, regardless of how much Andrew Sullivan now attempts to tickle their ears, should completely scratch his name off the list of thinking people that actually know what is going on.

The man rings hollow.

[phen43]

7. everyone's allowed to have a change of heart

even jerks!!!:patriot:

[MNDemNY]

What change of heart?? Are youreading something I am not?

[Auntie Bush]

33. Right! But he's still a jerk with a change of heart. No difference.

Well, I do give him credit for having the brains to turn against the devil President and the war. His nose probably got rubbed raw.

[sallyseven]

8. Sullivan is full of himself

and also manure. He should just stick to what he knows. Republicans.

[johncoby2]

10. We need a man in the job.

Women are weak on defense.

:sarcasm:

[jefferson_dem]

13. Hillary apologists pounce all over the messenger...

but Sully is right on, in this case.

Obama is the fix this nation needs now.

[MNDemNY]

15. Sully??? Is that what BHO calls him????

[jefferson_dem]

19. LOL! That's what "some folks" call him.

It's not necessarily an endearing label, which you would know if you had been paying any attention.

Silly.

Speaking of names, what is BHO?

[MNDemNY]

20. OK, but can he sing gospel?

[jefferson_dem]

23. Can you?

n/t

[MNDemNY]

24. Not a lick.

Just thought he might be a good addition to the "choir"

[cali]

18. I'm not a HIllary apologist, but Sullivan has been wrong so

often in the past, I see no reason to pay attention now.

[wyldwolf]

25. Obama apologists jump to the defense of Andrew Sullivan

[Mist]

14. Did Sullivan ever have any credibiltiy with progressives/Democrats? Does he

have any now that he's abjured his position on the Iraq Occupation?

[jefferson_dem]

16. So he's tracked right along with Hillary in that respect.

Beat the drums of war at first. Calling for an end to occupation now (supposedly).

[pscot]

17. Attacking the messenger is a good way to avoid

answering the argument he makes. Whatever Sullivan's politics were, he saw the light several years ago. There are plenty of life-long Democrats like myself who see Hilary as a devisive, triangulating schemer, who will not defend the Constitution or make a clean break with Bush middle-east policy, to say nothing about standing up to oil and defense cartels.

[cali]

22. It goes to credibility.

His brittle and surface prognostications have been proved wrong too many times, as have his observations of human nature. Really, he's no different than his erstwhile hero george, who looked into Putin's eyes and "saw his soul".

And no, I'm not in the Hillary camp.

[Maribelle]

37. A messenger is one who brings the words of others.

Andrew Sullivan shills for his own self-importance.

[Auntie Bush]

21. I'm afraid I can't agree with all those comments and accusations about Clinton.

You come across as a little bias and hateful of the Clintons, rather than the campaign and what kind of President she will make. I don't have time now to pick them out one by one ...but you know where they are.

I'll get into just one example. You say, "Gore loathes the Clintons as much as anyone, because he saw them close-up, and knows what their cynical, ruthless machine is really about". That comment comes fresh from a Republican Clinton hater. Did you ever stop to think Gore was angry at him for the affair he had with Monica (I don't blame him) which ruined his chances to use Clinton's record and coattails for the next election, and that's why they parted ways plus the wifes didn't get along either. Clinton and Gore had lunch together at his home so maybe he doesn't really think he is cynical and ruthless. Since he's considered the most popular or beloved man in the world (according to the polls) and such a philanthropist... I don't think he's really as evil as you say. You're reading too many bias anti-Clinton books and need to diversify. You should grow-up and drink wine and lay off the cool-aid. You're to old for that junk. :evilgrin:

Now you know why I don't have time to critique your whole bias post...maybe later. Why don't you read it over yourself in an objective manor and maybe you'll see where you've gone astray?

[pscot]

34. I don't hate anyone, I just want what's best for America

I do belive that our nation and the world are in deep trouble. The only politician who seems to understand the problems we face is Al Gore. He has turned away from politics. I would be happy to support Clinton, but I need to know where she stands on the key issues Sullivan mentions. She has so far refused to talk about them.

Will she get our troops out of Iraq? She refuses to give a clear answer.

Does she understand the impending environmental catastrophe we face? We don't know.

Will she renounce the unconstitutional powers claimed by Bush? Again, no answer.

[Auntie Bush]

41. Sorry but I think she answered all those questions as well as anybody could.

Will she get our troops out of Iraq? She refuses to give a clear answer.
How could she or any of the other candidates possibly KNOW the answer...none of them are Psychic? They ALL want them out as soon a HUMANLY POSSIBLE. None of them differs on that position. It's actually more HONEST of her to admit that she can't make that promise than to just make campaign promises that no one, except God, really knows. They don't differ on that except in pure political rhetoric.

"Does she understand the impending environmental catastrophe we face? We don't know."

YES we do! The Clintons have always been pro-environment...review the record. Remember all the land he declared as National Forest by executive order because the Rethugs wanted to use that pristine wilderness and animal habit opened up for drilling and mining. That infuriated the Thugs and the Western states...remember Bruce Babbitt? Look him up. They tried to ruin him out of vengeance. Also. since Al Gore was his VP...I'm sure the Clintons have always been well aware of global warming. So why do you suggest/think that we don't know where she stands on that issue?

"Will she renounce the unconstitutional powers claimed by Bush? Again, no answer."

WRONG again. I heard her with my own ears and eyes say she wants to diminish the presidential powers back to where they were when her husband was president. (Now could be a lie...but we won't know till she is president. Neither will we know what the others would do. We'll just have to wait and see. At least he did answer the question. I have no idea what position the other contenders have taken.

By the way...I must say I admire your polite answers to my possibly snaky(?) response to your post. :thumbsup: I just get tired of so many unfair, unsubstantiated comments people post. I just want to give her a break from the all those 24/7 right wing news/entertainment programs devoted souly to attacking Clinton, including our own DU Democrats.

What else are you worried about? Maybe I can help. lol
But I can't answer now because I really have to get off this damn forum and get to WORK!

[still_one]

26. Does it bother anyone that Sullivan voted for bush? Funny, when bush believes marriage is between a

man and a woma, is when Sullivan started to turn against the administration. It wasn't because of Iraq until later

Since his judgment was not very good about bush, why should I believe his subsequent judgement?

[Bumblebee]

28. To begin with, it's HiLLary, not Hilary. Second, there are things about Sullivan

I like -- but NOT his picking presidents. He did vote for Kerry in 2004, that's true, but anyone who voted for Bush over Gore in 2000 should forfeit his/her right to tell us who would make a better president.

[jonnyblitz]

30. aah more crap from Bareback Andy, Queen of the Log Cabin.

you Obama followers should seriously research people before you start quoting them. It will save you all from making FOOLS of yourselves.

[pscot]

38. Gay bashing

Specious assumptions about my politics and what I know or don't know, apparent failure to actually read and understand what I wrote, and you're calling me "FOOL"?

[emilyg]

32. Hilary? Who is that? I'm voting for HiLLary.

[pscot]

35. Hillary, Billary

I'm sorry Emilly,
I'm practising
fonetic orthografy

[Rowdyboy]

39. Andrew Sullivan is about as unbiased as Tucker Carlson...and just as smart

Sources matter

[Vickers]

40. Why are we quoting this douchebag?

It's appalling the lengths some of you guys go to to knock down another candidate.

[Cameron27]

42. Sullivan is not a good source...

for anything.

[MonkeyFunk]

43. And we should

care about Andrew Sullivan.... why?

He's a right-winger.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

44. recommended

he nails it