In her first trial, Hillary didn't give a rat's ass

[BeyondGeography]

From today's NYT:

Attorneys at Politics: Would You Hire One to Represent You?

==...Hillary Rodham Clinton, John Edwards, Rudolph W. Giuliani, Barack Obama, Mitt Romney and Fred D. Thompson all have law degrees, and all but Mr. Romney worked as lawyers for years before entering politics. But the practices they pursued, and how they handled themselves in the process, say something about their values and temperaments, and perhaps provide the outlines of how they would conduct a presidency.

There is certainly something of the commercial litigator’s polish and caution in Mrs. Clinton. Mr. Giuliani’s moral certainty is reflected in his crusades against government corruption, organized crime and insider trading when he was the United States attorney in Manhattan. And Mr. Edwards’s populism and appetite for risk has roots in his enormous success as a lawyer for injured plaintiffs.

But it may be the small moments, the war stories and trial vignettes, that illuminate the candidates most.

The first jury trial Mrs. Clinton handled on her own, for instance, concerned the rear end of a rat in a can of pork and beans. She represented the cannery, and she argued that there had been no real harm, as the plaintiff did not actually eat the rat. “Besides,” she wrote in her autobiography, describing her client’s position, “the rodent parts which had been sterilized might be considered edible in certain parts of the world.”

The jury seemed to buy her argument, more or less, as it awarded only token damages...==

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/weekinreview/28liptak.html?_r=1&ref=weekinreview&oref=slogin

Comment: OK, the thread title is inflammatory, but this is more amusing than anything else. Everyone has to do stupid shit for a living, especially when they're just starting out. Also, the fact that she put this in her autobiography shows she sees the humor in it as well.

[Bitwit1234]

1. Oh for goodness sake how many damn times are you Obama

supporters going to post this. I count three already....the more you post they more angry people get at Obama...I guess that's what you want. I think I am going to his website and tell him that right now.

[Tellurian]

3. DESPERATION is the Mother of perspiration..

and little stories amuse little minds...

[phen43]

5. please do visit obama's website

http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

[cuke]

6. Please don't discourage them

When a competitor acts like an ass, you shouldn't stop them. Just point out how they stink

[phen43]

8. hi cuke

thanks for the advice!!:) where you been?

[cuke]

10. Home, probably sleeping

I catch my sleep when I can. I got lucky last night. Seven straight hours of sleep!!!!

:bounce: :toast: :party:

[phen43]

12. me too!!

Usually I only average about 5, but I got me 8 last night!!!:toast:

[cuke]

13. Braggart!!!

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cuke]

23. She knows

[cali]

11. I posted it and I'm not an Obama supporter. n/t

[hedgehog]

14. I don't understand the problem.

I can't find the other two postings, so I can't judge the comments. However, how is posting this an attack on Hillary? Are you embarrassed that her first case involved defending a cannery? FWIW, if the food was properly processed to prevent botulism, I'd have to favor the defendant. Given the current equipment used to harvest and process vegetables, the occasional odd rodent is going to end up in a can. Al in all, the article is very laudatory toward Senator Clinton and I think gives her more attention than any of the others.

I thought the article was a very interesting insight into the personal goals of each candidate. Note that John Edwards didn't select cases for a big payout but in order to right egregious injustice.

[BeyondGeography]

17. Well, thanks, Hedge

I just got back to the board and see that even my understanding attitude toward Hilly at the bottom of the OP wasn't enough to deter the ritual "desperate Obama supporter" tripe from the Bots. Not that I give a rat's ass...

[IndianaJones]

2. so you admit its inflammatory. lets see how long it stays. nt.

[phen43]

4. Ha! Ha! good one!!

very amusing article!!!:)

[Perry Logan]

7. Clearly, Obama people are easily amused.

[cuke]

9. Humans are very adaptable

When all you have is shit, a shit sandwich is a delicacy

[petgoat]

16. Hillary didn't give a rat's ass about protecting our rights

when the hysterical vote to the USAPatriot act went down.

She could have exercised some leadership. She could have
said:

"As the Senator from Ground Zero, I can say that no one
is more aware of the terrorist threat than I. But in
seeking security, let's not stampede to give away our
civil liberties. Let's show a bit of professionalism
and at least read the damned Act before we vote on it."

She didn't. She had her chance. She failed.
She's USELESS!


Dennis Kucinich voted against the USAPatriot Act.

[sandnsea]

18. The mouse in beans was Hillary???

Okay, I've seen the posts but I thought it was a new case. Is this the same one, or are there two cases of rodents in beans with lawyers arguing the parts are sterile anyway.

This is disgusting, I don't know how someone could live with themselves after arguing nonsense like this.

[ElizabethDC]

19. I'm quite certain that there have been several cases like this

HRC was just doing her job - many young lawyers don't get too much of a choice in which cases they get.

[sandnsea]

21. In the last week?

That would be very unusual to hear of two in one week. But it's possible I suppose.

And no, I don't buy the "just doing her job" argument, people always have choices. There's always a door to walk out of. Having a case you aren't happy with isn't the same thing as making immoral arguments like the rat was sterile anyway.

[ElizabethDC]

22. Did I say that there were several cases in the last week?

No, I just said that there have been several cases in general. I wouldn't be surprised if there was one in the past week, as stories like this seem to pop up every few months.

I'm sure you find her argument horrible and immoral and all of that, but I'm also pretty sure that just reflects how you feel about anyway. (BTW, lawyers argue based on what they perceive the law to be, particularly as it relates to their client, and not on the basis of their personal feelings.)

[sandnsea]

24. That's what I asked

If this is the mouse and beans case that's been posted this week, or whether it's a different one. If you don't want to answer the question asked, then don't answer me at all.

No. I don't like her. And selling sterile rodents isn't law.

[ElizabethDC]

25. My understanding of your question was

whether or not this was an old case or a new case. And my answer is that there have been a lot of cases like this over the years. This one involving Hillary is quite old. I don't know what you meant to ask (or meant for me to answer), but was just trying to help, and I'm sorry if I've confused you in the process.

Also, yes, it's obvious you can't stand Hillary. Nothing new there.

Additionally, though I'm not familiar with Arkansas law specifically, there probably isn't a specific law permitting or prohibiting the selling of sterile rodents, which is why it was up to the lawyers to present their interpretations in front of a judge who would then make a decision. :evilgrin:

[karynnj]

26. True, but SHE opted to put this triumph in her autobiography

I do think the article was interesting. It was interesting to see how each chose to use their law degrees. There is some danger in making too much of what might not be a good or complete perspective on any of their careers.

I remember how effectively Kerry used his days as a prosecutor in the debates. I've since seen him refer to it in the Senate on a regular basis. That early work did show much of what you see in his later career. With the 2008 candidates, those choices likely also show things about the candidate. It is something that I need to thing more about to see if it changes my opinion of any of them. To some degree, on the Democrats, the choices do match what I already saw.

[ElizabethDC]

27. Well, I think she included it as a funny story

my mother, also a lawyer, loves telling the funny stories of the cases she's had to take up from time to time (such as her work on a public nudity ordinance that made her locally well-known.)

I think that, as a young lawyer, Hillary probably didn't have too many professional choices in Arkansas. After graduating from law school, she first worked for the Children's Defense Fund, and then on Nixon's impeachment. I think those reflected her interests more. She continued that kind of work in more of an extracurricular way while working as a lawyer in Arksansas (serving on the board for the Children's Defense Fund, etc.)

[karynnj]

28. I agree with you that she was very constrained

in her choices because she was in Arkansas. She also was the one who made the most money of the two of them. I suspect that she might not have even had the choice of being a DA, Prosecutor, judge etc because I assume there might have been potential conflict of interest as BC was governor.

My main reaction to the story was that the lawyer on the other side had to be awful. I doubt it would take much for any lawyer to claim that it was a traumatic event. I seriously would never buy anything canned again.

[Catchawave]

20. I support Edwards more than ever !

Great article. More about his early life, a must read is his book Four Trials. Heartbreaking AND Inspiring.