My Dean, Kerry memory of Dem loyalty in '04

[NewHampster]

Some of you may remember my Kick for a nickel threads and most will not. Here is what happened.

I was a severe NH Deaniac who hated John Kerry and blamed Kerry for Deans fall. So like any good dem, the day Dean withdrew I signed up with the Kerry website and began fund raising. Can't beat 'em, join 'em. As long as they are a Democrat.

It hurt because I really don't like JK and I always thought he had zip for chances and blew the campaign from day one. But he was our candidate.

On DU I pledged to donate a nickel for every bump and kick my thread got. I think it went close to 1000 kicks and cost me $50 bucks.

But the real reason I did it was the pledges that came within the thread from fellow DUers. I also had my contribute button on all my posts.

I have no idea how many followed up on their pledges through other means but I do know that over $5000 was given via my Kerry fund raising account. In only 2 or 3 days.

The point.

I support Hillary Clinton with my feet on weekends, on the phone one night a week and with my letters to the editor almost every week. Plus blogging on dKos and my own blog.

Should something weird happen and my candidate not get the nomination, I will openly and with Kennedy vigor support the Democratic nominee. We are Democrats and We must win.

[cali]

1. k&r

though you'll almost certainly attract comments about how you're mindlessly supporting the party.

[NewHampster]

3. Stupid me

:dem:

[wyldwolf]

2. Every Clinton supporter I know on DU share your sentiments

[Alamom]

5. ******ABAR****** k&r

[Mend]

4. Congratulations to the Red Sox....from a Mets fan....they were awesome!

[NewHampster]

6. Thank you

[Pawel K]

7. Clinton is a terrible choice, but I will do as you will

God forbid that she is our nominee, but if she wins she has my vote. Well, unless Ron Paul some how manages to win the republican nomination.

And if you supported Dean I don't understand how you can support Clinton who is a strong backer of the DLC, they were the ones that played a huge role in smearing Dean. But whatever, thats for a different topic.

[rusty fender]

10. What is "The Family Guy"...

licking? Please reply.

[Pawel K]

15. Lol. Really?

[Larkspur]

8. Hillary doesn't need my support. She's got Rupert Murdoch money

And since she favors shipping my job to India, I can't afford to donate to her.

[ProSense]

9. Will she fight them like Bill did in 2004?

Clinton, before the publication of his book, in the middle of Kerry's campaign as as he made the case against Bush's illegal war:

"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over," Clinton said in a Time magazine interview that will hit newsstands Monday, a day before the publication of his book "My Life."

Clinton, who was interviewed Thursday, said he did not believe that Bush went to war in Iraq over oil or for imperialist reasons but out of a genuine belief that large quantities of weapons of mass destruction remained unaccounted for.

link

Does he still believe that? Does Hillary agree with him?

[CoffeeCat]

11. Interesting...

I get your message.

I don't disagree with you philosophically. What you did--by supporting Kerry
was a gracious thing. I was a Deaniac too. I wholeheartedly jumped on the Kerry
bandwagon and volunteered for him and donated money. I cried when he didn't get
the nomination.

Setting aside your candidate personal preferences---for the good of the party has
always been an honorable thing.

However, in the case of Hillary, I will say that I have a difficult time with that.

Hillary supports war. Her votes and her rhetoric are parallel with the neocons.

I cannot, in good conscience vote for a candidate who:
---Voted for the Iraq war, knowing that it was a horrendous lie. The same neocons who
started the Iraq war asked her husband for war with Iraq a few years earlier. She
absolutely knew that the same jackals who came sniffing around, when her husband was
in office, were the same jackals selling us a lie-based, fear-saturated debacle.
--Refuses to denounce her Iraq vote, knowing what a mistake it was.
--Touts war with Iran and mimics Bush's Iran talking points. She even said, "War with
Iran is not off the table". Many other candidates are saying "Enough!" and trying
to end this neocon nightmare. Hillary is not. She's rationalizing more war.
--Voted for the Kyl amendment---which gave Bush carte blanche on Iran. That vote
defined the Iranian military as a "terrorist organization" and now Bush doesn't even
need Congressional approval for war, torture or whatever the hell else he wants. Hillary
voted for that.

So, refusing to vote for a warmonger---am I supposed to feel like a stubborn, horrible
person who just can't get along?

I won't feel that way. I'm sorry. I won't vote for a warmonger. I just won't do it.
I won't be made to feel like some lone wolf, disloyal Democrat because I won't fall in
line for a pro-war Democrat. We used to make fun of Lieberman and chastise him seven
ways to Sundays for abominations like this. Now....we're supposed to vote for it in
the name of party loyalty????

There's something wrong with Democrats who cheerlead for a warmonger. There is nothing
wrong with Democrats who refuse to let the neocon agenda slither its way into our
beloved party that has stood for peace, fairness, honesty and common sense--long before
Hillary was ever born.

Not me. Not this Democrat. Not my party.

[disndat]

14. H.C. has shady people working

on her campaign, like Terry McAucliffe and Mark Penn as well as being a darling of the neo-cons. I heard that McAucliffe is now in business with to the crooked Harken Energy principals, the people that financed Bush in his rise to the governorship of Texas. If she is nominated, no doubt she will go on to the WH. We must do everything to stop that, otherwise we will be in for another 8 years, like the previous. For people who thinks she will drop her support for the RW and neo-cons, or are unaware of where her money is coming from, they will probably be in for a big surprise.

[xultar]

12. I'd like to discuss your Dean support vs your Clinton support.

we can do it via PM or in a thread if you like.

I just find your support for Dean and now Clinton interesting. I'd love to know where both candidates resonate with you and where they don't.

[NewHampster]

16. Here works unless it distracts too much

Dean

Met him in the summer of 2003 I think and my wife and I both jumped on. She was the trooper, I was just online for that one.

I actually loved his conservative fiscal policies and most of all his shoot from the hip style. I think he got led down a rosy path by Joe T. and let the Rovian machine take him out via Kerry. I never want that to happen again. The repugs have forced us to understand their tactics of attack, trickery and deceit. See my blog post for Halloween here. I am staying focused on the prize.

Hillary

I've always liked her and quite simply, I can forgive her the war as bad as that sounds. I myself, the liberal anti-war protester got suckered by Bush and mostly Colin Powell. Pissed my wife off but I was for the war until the first news of the total fuck up of the Bagdad Museum and how obvious it was that these jerks head their heads up their asses. Of course I realize I was wrong from the beginning and so was Hillary and many others but today is not then.

Hillary can never apologize and give the scum a sound bite.
Hillary knows how to fight the machine and she will never back down.
This is about winning and I can't imagine any of the others surviving the crap that will be thrown their way.

Plus. If you read way down in my diary you'll find out that I think we need a woman President to clean up the mess.

[xultar]

18. I find it heartening to know that you are able to look at each person and

determine whether or not you support them. I admit to being suckered on the war too. I really believed Colin and I wanted to believe him. I saw him as the only one in the administration with a soul.

I like Dean as well. I didn't support him in the primary but if he'd gotten the nom I'd have happily voted for him. Kerry, didn't resonate with me.

I was a Clark supporter back in the day. Clark was the only one I got off my ass for. I called and wrote letters for his primary bid.

This time I'm supporting the Democratic Nom. I will get off my ass for the Democratic Presidential candidate for dayum sure.

Thank you for supporting Clinton though. I'm not supporting a primary candidate but I like her. It seems the more people tear her down the more I like her.

[NewHampster]

21. You are right but don't tell anyone

It seems the more people tear her down the more I like her.

Let the knuckleheads keep bashing away.

[InvisibleTouch]

25. That's a good point.

She's not my #1 choice, but the more I see people bashing her, the more I want to defend her. There would be something poetically-justified in seeing Hillary as our next Prez.

[InvisibleTouch]

13. I do remember your kick-for-a-nickel threads...

...they were great! Like you I was a Deaniac who was at first terribly disappointed with the nomination, but then made an effort to like John Kerry (and in the end really did like him, and still do). I have my favorite(s) in this race again, of course, but there's no one I dislike, and I will enthusiastically support whoever gets the nom.

[NewHampster]

17. Thanks for remembering

[Clark2008]

19. Just a note.

How 'bout them SOX?!!

:applause: :bounce:

[NewHampster]

20. Who could forget

[Mass]

22. Not sure what you mean by Kennedy vigor...

For the rest, we agree on the general points (getting a Democrat elected) and disagree on the details (I like Kerry and really do not like Clinton, so I will do whatever I can to help nominate somebody else).

Not sure why we need pledge now, though. Iowa caucus is in about 2 months. Right now is time to push who we think should be president, and for me, it is clearly not Clinton.

[NewHampster]

23. Vigor

The American Presidency Project

John F. Kennedy
Article by the President: The Vigor We Need.
July 16th, 1962

WHEN a citizen of Greece returned home after a victory in the Olympic Games he was escorted triumphally into the city through a hole which had been ripped in its wall. Thus the city-state was symbolically assured that any polls possessed of such a hero had no need of a wall to defend it. Although we may be sure that the wall was repaired when a hostile army threatened, the symbolic act had a meaning which is as true for the America of today as it was for the ancient Greeks, a meaning expressed by Disraeli when he said, "The health of the people is really the foundation upon which all their happiness and all their powers as a State depend."

Our own history, perhaps better than the history of any other great country, vividly demonstrates the truth of the belief that physical vigor and health are essential accompaniments to the qualities of intellect and spirit on which a nation is built. It was men who possessed vigor and strength as well as courage and vision who first settled these shores and, over more than three centuries, subdued a continent and wrested a civilization from the wilderness. It was physical hardihood that helped Americans in two great world wars to defeat strong and tenacious foes and make this country history's mightiest defender of freedom. And today, in our own time, in the jungles of Asia and on the borders of Europe, a new group of vigorous young Americans helps maintain the peace of the world and our security as a nation.

At the same time, young Americans are attaining new standards of excellence in athletic contests. Only last month four men ran the mile in less than 4 minutes in a single race. Hardly a month passes that some new record for speed or strength, stamina or competitive skill, is not shattered. Never in history has the United States been represented by a more gifted group of athletes in national and international competition. Yet we must not allow our pride in these few men to obscure the fact that over the past decades the level of physical fitness of much of our citizenry has been far below any reasonable national standard... http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=8771

[Tellurian]

24. Excellent, Thanks for posting.. K&R

[NewHampster]

26. U R welcome

:dem: