People like Donnie McClurkin will not stop my full support for Barack Obama

[zulchzulu]

Despite the recent event in Columbia, South Carolina where Donnie McClurkin performed while a couple dozen well needed protestors had a vigil outside the venue, my support for Barack Obama remains as strong as ever. Those that are trying to demonize Obama or supporters like myself with cheap shots by throwing the hateful words "bigot" or "homophobe" around are making their worthy right to protest the event polluted and distorted. I understand the pain of percieving that there is "room for hate" in the Obama campaign, but it is not an accurate depiction of the full picture.

As a person who has proudly spent many hours doing grassroots work in support of the LGBT community and several AIDS rides over the years, I'm not going to let the slippery antics of one man, Donnie McClurkin, to take away from the full message of Barack Obama's campaign.

From what I saw on the web in various sources, it appeared that Donnie McClurkin was going to be one of four performers singing at one event in a small town in South Carolina. It turns out from some reports that Mr. McClurkin introduced other acts as well as perform. Some have implied he was the "MC". I don't know and wasn't at the event and have read some conflicting reports of the concert from people who were there. If there is a video of him speaking, I'd like to see it to base some judgment on.

McClurkin has his opinion and life experiences to base his view, which not only I and millions of others, nor Barack Obama agree with:

Statement on Rev. McClurkin

"I have clearly stated my belief that gays and lesbians are our brothers and sisters and should be provided the respect, dignity, and rights of all other citizens. I have consistently spoken directly to African-American religious leaders about the need to overcome the homophobia that persists in some parts of our community so that we can confront issues like HIV/AIDS and broaden the reach of equal rights in this country.

I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin's views and will continue to fight for these rights as President of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division."

- Barack Obama
10/22/07

There was a letter issued regarding Donnie McClurkin from leaders of both the African American and LGBT community regarding the event and their continued support for Barack Obama:

African American Religious and LGBT Leaders Call for Communities to Find Common Ground

CHICAGO, IL- Obama supporters and leaders in the LGBT and African American faith communities released the following letter today calling on members of their communities to come together to find common ground.

To Whom It May Concern:

As representatives of Barack Obama supporters from the African American religious community and the gay community, we are issuing a statement together for the first time. Our letter addresses the recent issue of Pastor Donnie McClurkin singing at Senator Obama’s “Embrace the Change” concert series. In the midst of division, we hope and believe that this is a moment to bring together communities that have been divided for far too long.

A few things are clear.

First, Pastor McClurkin believes and has stated things about sexual orientation that are deeply hurtful and offensive to many Americans, most especially to gay Americans. This cannot and should not be denied.

At the same time, a great many African Americans share Pastor McClurkin’s beliefs. This also cannot be ignored.

Finally, we believe that the only way for these two sides to find common ground is to do so together.

Not at arms length. Not in a war of words with press and pundits. Only together.

It is clear that Barack Obama is the only candidate who has made bringing these two often disparate groups together a goal. In gatherings of LGBT Americans and African Americans of faith, Obama has stated that all individuals should be afforded full civil rights regardless of their sexual orientation, and that homophobia must be eradicated in every corner of our nation. If we are to end homophobia and secure full civil rights for gay Americans, then we need an advocate within the Black community like Barack Obama.

At the same time, while Obama has said that he "strongly disagrees" with Pastor McClurkin's comments, he will not exclude from his campaign the many Americans including many in the African American community who believe the same as Pastor McClurkin.

We believe that Barack Obama is constructing a tent big enough for LGBT Americans who know that their sexual orientation is an innate and treasured part of their being, and for African American ministers and citizens who believe that their religion prevents them from fully embracing their gay brothers and sisters. And if we are to confront our shared challenges we have to join together, build on common ground, and engage in a civil dialogue even when we disagree.

We also ask Senator Obama’s critics to consider the alternatives. Would we prefer a candidate who ignores the realities in the African American community and cuts off millions of Blacks who believe things offensive to many Americans? Or a panderer who tells African Americans what they want to hear, at the expense of our gay brothers and sisters? Or would we rather stand with Barack Obama, who speaks truth in love to both sides, pulling no punches but foreclosing no opportunities to engage?

We stand with Senator Obama. We stand with him because of the solutions he is proposing for our nation. We stand with him because of his character and his judgment. But the most important reason we stand with him is because today, as he has done all along, Barack Obama is causing us to stand together.

That's the kind of President we need, and we are proud to support him.

Sincerely,

Rev. Dr. Otis Moss, Jr.
Olivet Institutional Baptist Church
Chair, Obama National African American Religious Leaders Working Group
Cleveland, Ohio

Stampp Corbin
Chair, Obama National LGBT Leadership Council
Former Member of Human Rights Campaign Board of Directors
Columbus, Ohio

Tobias Barrington Wolff
Chair, Obama LGBT Policy Committee
Professor of Law, University of Pennsylvania Law School
Philadelphia, PA

The Reverend Stephen John Thurston
President
National Baptist Convention of America
Chicago, IL

The Reverend Alvin Love
President
Baptist General State Convention of Illinois, Inc.

Bishop E. Earl McCloud, Jr.
Office of Ecumenical & Urban Affairs
African Methodist Episcopal Church
Atlanta, GA

Steven Latasa-Nicks
President, The Phelon Group, Inc.
Former Human Rights Campaign Board of Governors
New York, NY

Maxim Thorne
Former COO, Human Rights Campaign
Paterson, NJ

Phil Burgess
Former Human Rights Campaign Board of Directors
Chicago, IL

Rev. Dr. Barbara Williams-Skinner
Skinner Leadership Institute
Tracy’s Landing, MD

Rev. Michael Pfleger
St. Sabina, Chicago

Rev. Edward Taylor
San Jose, CA

The Reverend Robert H. Thompson
Exeter, NH

Sharon Malheiro
LGBT Activist
Des Moines, IA

Hon. Jon Cooper
Majority Leader, Suffolk County (NY) Legislature

Rev. Paul Hobson Sadler, Sr., Pastor
Mt. Zion Congregational UCC

Should I or anyone believe McClurkin when he said:

"Don't call me a bigot or anti-gay,' he said. "Don't call me a homophobe, because I love everybody. . . Let me tell you something, the grace of God is given to all men," he said to loud applause.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/10/29/post_159.html

Again, what McClurkin has said in the past obout homosexuality or his life experience is his own opinion. Should the South Carolina Obama office had checked out his deal before the event better? Absolutely. Does this sorry event make my support for Obama any less? Absolutely not. Barack Obama is not a homophobe or bigot and either am I.

More on Obama's LGBT voting record and history:
http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/p/BarackObama.htm

If people want to respond to this OP with hit-and-run insults calling me a bigot or homophobe, I see that ploy as a childish, unfounded accusation that can be compared to the days where people falsely accused people of being witches. I would hope that the anger goes toward more productive efforts to help get more civil rights for not just the LGBT community, but for all Americans.

Once the event had the lineup announced, I seriously doubt that those who were attacking the Obama campaign and accusing anyone who supports Obama of being anti-gay would have accepted any solution without saying that the choice to drop McClurkin was "to get back votes" or he was a "flip flopper" or other excuses. It was a chance to pile on the campaign with accusations that are more shameful than what some misguided gospel singer could ever do.

Will all this affect my support for Barack Obama to be the next president of the United States? It only makes my resolve stronger. For those that are hurt by this event, my heart goes out to you hoping that you have someone who will still stridently keep working for the rights of the LGBT community...just as Barack Obama has done over the past 20 years.

[LeftyMom]

1. That's an awful lot of words to waste on apologism for bigotry.

Either Obama keeps company with bigots, or he can't or won't control his own campaign functions. Neither says anything flattering about him.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

40. That's it, right there.

Nuthin' left to say really. :shrug:

[libnnc]

2. Whatever gets you through the night

He's done in my book.

[Maven]

3. Save it.

It's over.

[terrya]

4. Ok, fine whatever. n/t

[phen43]

5. I agree!!

[Nedsdag]

6. Thank you.

I'm sick and tired of being called a homophobe because I support Obama. At least I'm not a hypocrite like some in the gay community for supporting a woman whose husband signed DOMA and SAID NOTHING AGAINST IT.

[FlaxieB]

79. Amen!

[CyberPieHole]

150. Twisted-pretzel logic.

I assume you are trying to smear Hillary in your post. First let me say that I don't support her. She is probably third on my list as the Democratic candidate. Second, the fact that her HUSBAND signed DOMA does not relate in any way form or fashion to her. What could she say against it? She was First Lady. She was married to Bill Clinton. She got enough shit from repubs because she injected herself into some policy issues (the DragonLady Reagan practically ran the frickin country while Ronnie vegetated in the Oval Office but most people kept quiet when she did it). Why don't you stop trying to shift responsibility and do yourself and Barack Obama a favor and stick to the issue at hand? Shifting blame appears cheap, desperate and pathetic.

[MNDemNY]

7. enjoy the water as the s.s.obama sinks. Too bad.

[Nedsdag]

38. Well, vote for Giuliani in the general election.

He shows more tolerance for gays than Hillary and that's not saying much.

[CyberPieHole]

153. So YOU prefer Giuliani in the General Election?

Why?:shrug:

[Bluebear]

8. Oh that there's a BIG surprise lol.

And the OP has me on ignore and made a big show about it, so they obviously won't see this post.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. I'll Repeat It For You. He Doesn't Have Me On Ignore

"Oh that there's a BIG surprise lol. And the OP has me on ignore and made a big show about it, so they obviously won't see this post."

-bluebear

[Bluebear]

17. Thank you.

Good interpreter services are so hard to find these days :)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. You're Welcome

You can return the favor some day ...

[SaveElmer]

9. "McClurkin has his opinion and life experiences to base his view"

I had a Klan member say something very similar to me once about his views on race...

[PurityOfEssence]

62. Yes, but you're supposed to bear your cross, not beat people over the head with it...

See? Even we can agree sometimes.

This has doomed him. How odd that everyone doesn't see that...

The token gay preacher being white was the last straw; the rest is just noise.

[FlaxieB]

81. You should be outraged with Clinton then DOMA MulBerry.

Oh I forgot the fake rage. It only matters when it is not associated with Hillary

[CyberPieHole]

154. Can you please clarify your post?

Which Clinton (Bill or Hillary)? What about DOMA? What about Mulberry? Please advise.

[cuke]

10. Keep digging

A little bit more and you'll be seeing daylight

[phen43]

15. don't like to get our hands dirty!!!

hi cuke!!

[cuke]

23. Hey sweetie

Hope you had a nice w/e

[CyberPieHole]

11. How nice for you. As for me, Obama has lost my support. n/t

[rinsd]

13. Why did you only quote half of his non apology?

"But McClurkin, who won a Grammy in 2004 for his gospel music and is also the pastor of an evangelical church in New York, quickly became the star of the night, which was the conclusion of three gospel concerts the campaign held around the state. McClurkin essentially acted as the emcee of the event, introducing the other gospel artists who performed, and then took the stage for the last hour. In between sermonizing, singing, and raving about Obama, McClurkin repeatedly defended himself.

"I just said yes," he said of his invitation by the Obama campaign. "I didn't know so much was going to happen. I didn't know my yes was going to mean I was misunderstood and vilified. .. . Sometimes people can take your words and do this with them," he said, making a twisting motion with his hands as the crowd shouted Amens and cheered for him.

After another song, he specially addressed the issue of homosexuality, saying he had been "touched by the same feelings."

"Don't call me a bigot or anti-gay,' he said. "Don't call me a homophobe, because I love everybody. . . Let me tell you something, the grace of God is given to all men," he said to loud applause."


"It was a chance to pile on the campaign with accusations that are more shameful than what some misguided gospel singer could ever do."

Seriously just stop. You want to know what made the reaction to the McClurkin thing go to Defcon-1? Attitudes like the above.

[dsc]

14. A perfectly serious question

Suppose McGreevey were running for President and he went to South Carolina and had a comedy act with one performer who had repeatedly said blacks are trying to kill our kids, blacks can change their race, and blacks shouldn't have money spent on their schools. Suppose further that McGreevey said repeatedly through surrogates that this person would only tell a few jokes but when the actual comedy act was put on the person in question introduced all the acts and spent a half hour justifying his previous bigotted statements. Just what would your reaction be? Presuming you would find that unacceptable, why should I find what Obama did acceptable?

[Maven]

Again, it's a double-standard where one kind of bigotry is taken seriously, and another is not

You won't get an answer.

[Maven]

16. dupe

[zulchzulu]

20. Who is McGreevey and how does that relate to this?

I'd love to answer your question, but I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[dsc]

21. He is a gay man who was governor of New Jersey

the rest is hypothetical.

[MNDemNY]

22. waiting.

[zulchzulu]

29. Your hypothetical question is flawed

First of all, Obama did not share a stage with McClurkin.

Second, Obama made a statement about McClurkin that you can read in the post I wrote. It wasn't flattering.

Third, McGreevey would never have my support in the first place.

Listen, I understand your rage. I also am looking at the full picture.

[dsc]

30. Nowhere to I say McGreevey would be there

so again I would like a real answer. Assume a gay politician did to blacks what Obama did to gays, what would your reaction be? I want a 'straight' answer.

[zulchzulu]

34. Perhaps you misread what I wrote

You mentioned a hypothetical where McGreevey had some racist comic on stage before he spoke. Obama was not at the event in person. There were also three other acts.

Let's say Obama was there. If he hadn't made this statement about McClurkin, I would have been miffed:

"I have clearly stated my belief that gays and lesbians are our brothers and sisters and should be provided the respect, dignity, and rights of all other citizens. I have consistently spoken directly to African-American religious leaders about the need to overcome the homophobia that persists in some parts of our community so that we can confront issues like HIV/AIDS and broaden the reach of equal rights in this country.

I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin's views and will continue to fight for these rights as President of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division."

- Barack Obama
10/22/07

That was in the post...maybe you missed it. It is clear to me that Obama does not support McClurkin's views on being gay...and neither do I.

[dsc]

36. No I didn't

it is you who misread. And by video on that night Obama said that McClurkin inspired him and was his favorite singer.

[zulchzulu]

48. Link?

You say there is a video of Obama saying that "McClurkin inspired him and was his favorite singer"? Even though he wasn't there?

Let's see the video.

[dsc]

53. Both the NYT and CNN mention a video interduction including those words

[zulchzulu]

59. Talking about taking stuff out of context..wow...

There was an ad played at the event. In no way did it say anything about Obama being inspired by McClurkin or that he's his favorite singer... sheesh...

This is getting pretty pathetic. Shall I add you to my ignore list?

[dsc]

63. Here is what CNN said

Obama, while not present, appeared on a videotaped message to the crowd, saying, “The artists you’re going to hear from are some of the best in the world, and favorites of Michelle and myself.”

This is what I said. I will admit the NYT article doesn't mention the video but CNN did and it says what I said it said.

[avrdream]

82. EXACTLY!!!!

Why isn't there outrage from the African American community about this? (If there is, someone point me in the direction so I can read it.)

[yardwork]

120. There is outrage among many African Americans here on DU.

I've seen their posts here today, and I appreciate it.

Most people here on DU recognize bigotry when they see it. A few are fooled, and a few are probably paid to act as fools.

[William769]

18. K&R for BIGOTS everywhere!

[Clintonista2]

19. Same.

[zulchzulu]

24. Is Rev. Harold Mayberry a bigot too?

It's odd to find such venom against Obama and accusing he and his supporters of being bigots all while at the same time, the Hillary Clinton has the support of homophobes like Rev. Harold Mayberry on her web site.

From her site:

"I want a president who knows how to strike a balance between addressing international and domestic challenges facing this country," said Reverend Dr. Harold R. Mayberry, Senior Pastor of First African Methodist Episcopal Church and Chairperson of Network for Interfaith Action."

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=2857

Then we have the comments from SF Gate regarding how Mayberry equates homosexuality with "thievery":

Like most religious opponents of same-sex marriage, the Rev. Harold Mayberry, pastor of the First African Methodist Church in Oakland, has preached against homosexuality to his congregation of 2,800.

However, he does not think a federal amendment is necessary. The scriptures direct people how to lead a moral life, he said.

"I'm comfortable in what I believe in," Mayberry said. "I'm not rejecting people. As God loves, we love. I don't reject thieves, I reject thievery."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/03/14/MNGJB5KB9N1.DTL&type=printable

Should I call you and all supporters of Hillary Clinton bigots like you childishly do? I won't. I'll just look at your utter hypocrisy as your badge of lack of intellect and honesty.

[dsc]

26. This is the fifth fucking time I have answered this question

Incidently I still don't have an answer to mine yet. Yes, that Reverend is a bigot too. YES, THAT REVEREND IS A BIGOT TOO. Did you hear me now?

[zulchzulu]

27. I wasn't asking you....

I was asking the person who I responded to.

[William769]

37. If all Mcbigot did was endorse Obama, there would be no up roar.

Is Hillary touring with Mayberry? Is Hillary using him in a fundraiser?

And you want to talk about lack of intellect and honesty.

[FredScuttle]

45. How about those of us who are NOT Hillary supporters

and are equally outraged on this insult to our LGBT brothers and sisters?

Have anything to say to us?

[IndianaJones]

25. bigot and homophobe are not hateful words...they are necessary words to describe hatred. nt.

[yardwork]

104. That is correct.

[Pale Blue Dot]

28. Then you're one of a very few. nt

[NMMNG]

31. Did you type that with a straight face?

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

35. Stop! You are being a "hysterical homo" again!

:rofl:

[NMMNG]

39. Guilty, as charged

Considering the reading material I had no choice.

[tekisui]

33. Actions speak louder than words.

Obama f'ed up BIG time. He showed a huge lack of judgment and/or he sees nothing wrong with the ex-gays views.

Not Democratic Presidential material.

[Karenina]

41. Your decision to continue to support him

is just that. YOUR DECISION. I hope you will come to an understanding, through all the hoopla, of why others feel differently.

http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2007/10/23/whats-the-matter-with-obama-this-is-not-a-question-part-1/

[zulchzulu]

43. As soon as I read...

..."Barack Obama’s latest throws-the-gays-under-the-bus gaffe..."

I knew the blog op was inaccurate. It's that simple.

Please give me a list of anything related to the Obama's "latest throws-the-gays-under-the-bus gaffe".

Perhaps you didn't read the OP I wrote where he makes his point about McClurkin as well as others in the LGBT community who support him.

As for my support, yes, indeed, it is my decision.

[Karenina]

55. So then you DO understand those

who feel they must make the decision to withdraw their support?

[zulchzulu]

60. Well...

...if they read that blog full of inaccurate information, they can do whatever they want.

I hear he beats up gay squirrels. From some blog...

:crazy:

[Karenina]

70. Zulchzulu, my internet-dar registers you as a Mensch.

It's clear to me that somehow you don't get the emotional hot-button events have pushed, nor their ripple effects. I wish you would read this:

http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2007/10/23/whats-the-matter-with-obama-this-is-not-a-question-part-1/

I DO APPRECIATE your loyalty to Obama and you ARE CORRECT about his voting record. Unfortunately, modern-day politics in Amurikkka are so much about SYMBOLS. Donnie is a radioactive, wedge-issue SYMBOL to diverse communities who support LGBT rights as CIVIL RIGHTS. The "ex-gay" moniker is a SYMBOL to many of us of vile and vicious religion-based psychic abuse. It is an explosive emotional issue. Rather than trying to convince us of what a "good guy" he really is in spite of his shameless pandering to the worst of the worst, you might do well to pose the question to him directly, "WHAT were you thinking?"

Donnie comandeered the last half-hour with his persecuted X-tian crap to rousing applause. How did it go from a few songs to emcee? Obama made a crass political calculation and transposed a few numbers along the way. Let's see if Oprah will come to the rescue and bail his ass out. She owes him one after this debacle. Who knows, maybe SHE can get a real discussion started. We promise to leave Steadman out of it! :evilgrin:

[zulchzulu]

86. I certainly "get it"...

Like I mentioned in the title, what Donnie thinks is 10,000,000 miles away from what I think about many things, including his confused message.

As for the blog link, I did read it. Like I mentioned, it's full of inaccuracies and innuendo. What exactly does "latest throws-the-gays-under-the-bus gaffe" mean? Point out the other "gaffes" where Obama throws gays under the bus? :shrug: With the lie: "The immediate problem with Barack Obama is that he has chosen to host a three-day “gospel tour” starring McClurkin.", the blogger is inferring that Donnie McHate is doing all the shows. He did one show in Colombia. Truth...not so much. Nowhere in the lopsided blog is any mention of what Obama thought of Donnie McHate. It's in the original OP. Why not?

I'm not a homophobe, I have done and do things to support the LGBT community and I know that Barak Obama is not a bigot. I fully support him and made it known I don't like Donnie associated with the campaign in the OP.

[Toasterlad]

92. No, You Obviously DON'T Get It.

You continue to split hairs and ask for proof of things that have been posted over and over. You are bound and determined to trivialize this incident. The GLBT community does not find this incident trivial. We find it highly insulting and extremely hypocritical of Mr. Obama. Any self-proclaimed friend of the gay community would see it that way as well.

We don't need friends like you.

[Toasterlad]

42. People Like You Will Not Stop My Disgust With Obama Apologists.

And please don't waive your GLBT helper cred around. It's painfully obvious from your defense of the indefensible that you are no friend to the gay community. In that, you and Mr. Obama have something in common.

[zulchzulu]

44. Thanks for your support

You can say I'm not a friend of the gay community. You should be ashamed of yourself. Good bye.

[FredScuttle]

47. No one who supports, excuses or apologizes for anti-gay bigotry

is a friend to the LGBT community.

[zulchzulu]

50. So LGBT activists and Human Rights Campaign members are bigots too?

Here's a list of people who support Obama from my post. I guess they are not "a friend to the LGBT community"...

Stampp Corbin
Chair, Obama National LGBT Leadership Council
Former Member of Human Rights Campaign Board of Directors
Columbus, Ohio

Tobias Barrington Wolff
Chair, Obama LGBT Policy Committee
Professor of Law, University of Pennsylvania Law School
Philadelphia, PA

Steven Latasa-Nicks
President, The Phelon Group, Inc.
Former Human Rights Campaign Board of Governors
New York, NY

Maxim Thorne
Former COO, Human Rights Campaign
Paterson, NJ

Phil Burgess
Former Human Rights Campaign Board of Directors
Chicago, IL

Sharon Malheiro
LGBT Activist
Des Moines, IA

Contact them and call them homophobes and bigots...you fool.

[FredScuttle]

51. The HRC called out Obama on including McClurkin

http://www.hrcbackstory.org/2007/10/human-rights--1.html

They, unlike you, can recognize bigotry when they see it and don't feel the need to apologize for it or defend it. Yet, you do....interesting.

It's all well and good to post a list of Obama's LGBT supporters before this whole gospel concert kerfuffle....let's see how many LGBT activists and organizations stick with Obama after he decided to cast his lot with a bigot and a homophobe.

[LostinVA]

152. Toasterlad is right

Whomever excuses bigotry is a bigot.

[FredScuttle]

46. Blah, blah, blah...

You just should have typed "I SUPPORT BIGOTRY" and be done with it.

[goodgd_yall]

49. I think you need a news update n/t

[WCGreen]

52. If I supported Obama, this would not make me change my position..

However, since I don't support Obama, it is just another in a long list of incidents that make me feel the guy isn't ready yet to take control of the government...

HE doesn't seem to be able to take control of his campaign...

Just my thoughts and it's th only thing I have said about Obama in weeks...

[Skip Intro]

54. I'll never support him now. I pray he's not our nominee.

I'm happy that's looking less and less likely.

[yardwork]

56. Obama rejected female black gay pastors from speaking at his event.

Does that change your opinion about Obama at all?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3658747&mesg_id=3658747

[zulchzulu]

57. Could you provide a link...

I have whoever did that OP on ignore...probably for good reason. Was there a link in the OP?

[dsc]

58. here

http://www.queerty.com/news/barack-rejected-black-gay-ministers-20071026

[zulchzulu]

64. Where and who were the "sources"

This is of the same ilk as Fox News saying "some people say..." to interject their agenda.

I read the blog and saw no credible sources to begin to even believe this garbage.

[yardwork]

77. So you acknowledge that it is "garbage" if it is true?

Yesterday, you and others here on DU said that we were smearing Obama with the suggestion that this homophobe would be highlighted during the campaign event. Today it turns out that our predictions were true.

Instead of apologizing, now you just lower the bar to meet your latest interpretation of the events. So what happens if this too is proven true? Will you keep lowering the bar as far as necessary so as to never admit that Obama is wrong?

[dsc]

80. I all but got called a liar for stating less of a role for him than he ended up having.

[yardwork]

116. Oh man, we got called worse than "liar." Racist Hillary-lovers with a secret agenda.

That was one of the milder accusations.

[zulchzulu]

88. Did you read what the previous poster linked?

You're getting confused. Some blog suggested that Barack Obama personally rejected two lesbian black preachers, due to "some sources in and out of the campaign". WTF?

[yardwork]

114. Yes, I think he read all the posts. The black female preachers weren't there.

That is a fact. They weren't there. A white gay preacher was there. He spoke during the sound test at the very beginning, before many people were there. That is a fact. A bigoted homophobe was there, defending his vile (and most probably extremely hypocritical, not to mention lying) views, and Obama announced him by video as "one of my favorite singers."

Those are all facts. You've managed to lower the bar of expectations for Obama so that all those facts are ok. I'm asking, what will you do when the FACT that the black female preachers were rejected by Obama's campaign is proven? Lower the bar still further?

At what point - if ever - do you acknowledge that maybe Obama is not as good a candidate as you had hoped?

[zulchzulu]

142. One thing I have acknowledged about the SC Obama campaign...

...is in the original post.

I thought it was not a good idea to have Donnie there. As for the other female preachers, that was the first I heard about it. I very much doubt Obama had a hand in saying no lesbian preachers are allowed...

There is been such inaccuracies in the event from all sides. Am I disappointed in how all this has erupted? You bet. Do I think Obama is a homophobe? No! Am I? No!

One concert that had some slippery guy who ended up doing more than singing is disappointing. Is it a dealbreaker with me? No. Should Donnie be told to get lost by the Obama campaign for stepping over the line? Yes.

FWIW, I'm disappointed in many DUers here that try to brand me and others as a bigot or homophobe. That utterly sucks. Will it stop me from helping them in the future with grassroots efforts for the LBGT community? No!

[yardwork]

148. There haven't been any inaccuracies on my side.

The fact is, those of us in the GLBTQ community here on DU called it very accurately last week. We saw how this was unfolding. We recognized it for what it was. There haven't been any inaccuracies in our predictions. If anything, it's even worse than many of us foretold.

I think that Obama absolutely had a hand in all these decisions, including the decision to use a WHITE male gay preacher to "balance" the black gospel singer who has made a career out of telling extremely harmful lies about the gay community that contribute to our oppression that is literally a risk to our lives.

I'm not calling you a bigot or a homophobe. I am calling McClurkin a homophobic bigot. I am stating that anyone who promotes his message - and that includes Obama - is perpetuating bigotry.

If you are defending Obama's promotion of bigotry, then you too are promoting bigotry. It's as simple as that.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FredScuttle]

66. "Nasty haters in the LGBT community"?

Really? Has it come to that?

ahem.....Obama just released a fucking press release where he defended McClosetCase by saying (quote) "McClurkin does not want to change gays and lesbians who are happy with their lives..."

Do you understand how fucked up that is?

[AtomicKitten]

67. I always did - but I also don't like being called a "racist" and "bigot."

Fling that nasty shit at people that don't deserve it and you will find it not received very well across the board. One's sexual orientation does not give anyone license to fling nasty shit like that carelessly. And I have every right to call that behavior out.

The LGBT community I am proud to associate myself with here in SF are strong warriors for equal rights, not this petty, sniveling bullshit here. I wonder if any of you notice we're on our way to war with Iran.

[FredScuttle]

68. You don't like being called a "bigot"?

Then, stop defending bigotry. Not that I've seen you personally being called a bigot on any of these threads, but go ahead and clutch your pearls anyway.

[AtomicKitten]

69. and I would suggest that the sniveling here precludes an honest assessment

This world includes all kinds of people with all kinds of inequities, this one in particular blown out of proportion as if McClurkin was advising or writing policy for Obama.

There is absolutely nothing Obama could say or do to make this right with some of the militant haters are DU, and so you'll have to forgive me if I utter a heartfelt "pfft" re: the pile-on in progress.

[dsc]

71. Just imagine for a second the following senario

A gay candidate decides to have a comedy show to raise money. He invites a comic who has repeatedly accused blacks of killing kids, told them they could change, and advocated defunding and attacking a prominate black high school. Further imagine that gay candidate and his surrogates repeatedly assured you that this comic would only tell a few jokes. Then imagine, after all of these assurances you find out that the comic MCed the event, spent the last half hour of the event justifying his previous bigotted statements, and the candidate sent a video greeting stating the comic was a favorite of his. Now, just how would you feel about that candidate? Why should I feel any better about Obama?

[zulchzulu]

75. You got your answer to your oddly skewed hypothetical question

AK probably has something to say about your "question".

[dsc]

76. No I didn't get an answer I got a bunch of crap from you

and it isn't skewed. It is exactly and precisely what happened here. Your candidate did exactly what I wrote here.

[zulchzulu]

89. I gave you a couple chances...

Bye...

[Ediacara]

184. In other words: the poster has no response

[FredScuttle]

72. TRANSLATION: We Need to Listen To Bigots

because, you know, they're Americans do and we need a big tent and an open discussion and blah, blah, blah.

I don't need to listen to one goddamn word from an "ex-gay" who thinks homosexuality is a choice and a plague and desires to take "unhappy" gays and lesbians and convert them to whatever fucked up land of denial he currently finds himself in.

And, for your information, I was not an Obama "hater"....I was actually leaning toward him as I am vehemently against Hillary in the primaries. This debacle, however, has placed me firmly against him. He's insulting the LGBT community directly and Democrats who oppose bigotry and intolerance in general.

[yardwork]

151. Thank you! It's exactly the same as listening to White Supremacists.

Should we listen to Holocaust deniers? Let them have their say? I'll bet we can even find someone who claims to be Jewish who will say that Holocaust deniers aren't really all that bad. At least, we can find some poster who claims to know someone who is Jewish who thinks that Holocaust deniers aren't really all that bad.

It's rude to tell someone that they are perpetuating bigotry, so we need to stop that. I guess that instead of fighting the Nazis we should have invited them over for tea.

[Karenina]

161. Operation Paperclip.

[zulchzulu]

73. Agreed

Wow, it feels great being called a "homophobe" by people who refuse to even think that someone who's done lots of grassroots work for the LGBT community dare support someone they have confabbed into thinking is a bigot. I was called "no friend of the LGBT community" today. How pathetic...

[AtomicKitten]

84. TRANSLATION: "I will label you a homophobe if you don't do exactly as I say."

The problem is some of the militant haters couldn't strategize their out of a paper bag much less actually address some of the goals of equal treatment under the law.

The problem is they aren't goals to them but unyielding demands, and too many here think barking orders at us straight folks trying to achieve equal rights for everyone - not just for them (hmmmmm, maybe that's it) - is somehow edifying.

I don't know about you but I always find actually doing something constructive far outweighs just bitching about it.

[FredScuttle]

90. TRANSLATION: "Shut up faggots, we got the homophobic vote to recruit"

The only orders I see being barked around here are quite legitimate calls to action to stand up for civil rights and against bigotry and homophobia, the likes of which being expressed by Obama's chosen singer, Donnie McClurkin. Have you called the Obama campaign to register your disappointment over their continued defense of McClurkin?


And, for the record, I'm straight.

[AtomicKitten]

93. I'm telling you to grow up, not shut up.

snaps for drama

[dsc]

94. "snaps for drama"

wow and you have the audacity to complain about being called a bigot? Just imagine if a poster told a black poster that he had "watermelons for drama".

[AtomicKitten]

96. First laugh I had today - the "racist" accusation de jour!

So, now "snaps" is a racial thing?

Wow. You're really grasping for straws.

[dsc]

99. No but it sure is a gay thing

[AtomicKitten]

103. your assertion that language has been thus coapted is lame

[CyberPieHole]

168. Bless you. Your understanding of GLBT issues is profound.

Your kind and sympathetic post is almost prayer-like. Reading it made me feel as if I were in a sacred little Chapel.












:eyes:

[Ediacara]

185. Yep, it's the fault of those uppity gays and their demands

:eyes:

[Toasterlad]

74. Please Get Down Off Your Cross.

Obama could have stopped this whole thing by removing McClurkin from the program. He chose not to do so. Now he has to deal with the consequences like a man. And your continued insistence that Obama is a put-upon hero not responsible for his very real and very hurtful actions toward the gay community are tiresome, not to mention downright insulting. If your candidate doesn't have a pair, and can't speak for himself, why do you bother to defend him?

Poor Obama! All he wants is to pander to religious nutjobs while minimizing the gay community! Why are people persecuting him??? :nopity:

[AtomicKitten]

83. I would suggest you pull up your socks

and stop worrying that it might get crowded on that cross you and some here have yourselves nailed to. Believe me, nobody would dream of stealing that schtick.

[Toasterlad]

85. Yes, That's Right...Those Wacky Gays Are at It Again!

Those silly Marys are all so SENSITIVE! Why, the littlest thing sets them right off! It's too bad they can't see that Obama has their real interests at heart, even though he hires homophobes to preach about God curing fags at his concerts.

Please explain the part where you're not a bigot again?

[AtomicKitten]

87. No worries, dude.

We straight "bigots" and "racists" will continue to do the hard work of achieving equal rights for everyone. You just continue to whine. Your demands were countered and you just aren't in the mood to compromise. That attitude always works so nicely in a democracy. Not.

[FredScuttle]

91. So the LGBT community should just be thankful for their little crumbs

and genuflect in abject awe to you who has done so much for their wretched little lives?

Do you actually take yourself seriously?

[AtomicKitten]

95. You're welcome.

You can consider it tough love even thought I don't like some of you very much. There is much in the pipeline that would hardly be considered crumbs (sniveling on-line is productive?), although, as always, snaps for drama.

[FredScuttle]

101. You really are too full of yourself to look in the mirror, eh?

Get this through the haze of ego and arrogance you built up. Whatever it is you've done, or thought you've done, to advance the cause of equality and protection of rights for the LGBT community.....means JACK SHIT to me. Because you've revealed yourself to be an ugly, arrogant misanthrope who prefers to join Rev. McClosetCase in insulting gays and lesbians than do anything substantive to let your candidate know what he did was wrong.

And, again, I say this as a straight man.

[AtomicKitten]

107. Psychoanalysis of strangers on the internets is fun.

And you, sir, are behaving like an ignorant, diffusely angry, ugly, sorely misguided, arrogant, bunghole.

See how nicely lobbing epithets works in a conversation? :crazy:

[FredScuttle]

112. As you say

it can be an interesting exercise. I, however, can hold my head up in this contretemps because I'm the one not defending bigotry and homophobia.

[AtomicKitten]

117. and that's where you are wrong

I am not defending anything, simply pointing out that this brouhaha is being massaged and stretched thin.

Exaggerating and just making shit up to fuel your outrage is lame. The drama must be intoxicating.

[Toasterlad]

Yes, You've Done Everything But Acknowledge It.

Can we say, "Obama fucked up?" I knew that we could!

[AtomicKitten]

122. I don't agree with the outcome.

But I'm not throwing Obama under the bus. Sorry.

[Toasterlad]

125. Hmm. Thought We Were Making Progress There.

So, you consider it throwing Obama under the bus by saying he fucked up on this incident? But you DON'T consider it Obama throwing the GLBT community under the bus for his actions?

That is ONE SELECTIVE BUS.

[AtomicKitten]

127. And clearly you are incapable of discerning, nuanced thought.

[Toasterlad]

Compelling Argument. Your Wit Remains Your Most Dangerous Weapon, Atomic Kitten.

A random, incongruous statement apropos of nothing was the perfect response, there. I salute you.

[AtomicKitten]

135. Thank you.

However, your drivel doesn't really deserve any response at all.

Kisses.

[Toasterlad]

139. And Yet...Your Response. CheckMATE! I Win.

Now you have to write "Obama is a dirty lying hypocrite" 100 times in your BEST penmanship. And DON'T let me catch you looking out the window!

[Toasterlad]

133. Dupe.

[FredScuttle]

126. ahem

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3653335

"It is his belief that inclusiveness in the black church-going community is the best way to apply peer pressure to those reluctant to walk the walk of acceptance."

So you're either saying the black church-going community are a bunch of homophobes or that we must include bigots in the conversation to achieve healing on civil rights.

All the language of tolerance of, coddling of, apologizing for the ugliness that Rev. McClosetCase spewed last night and many, many times in the past. Notwithstanding, of course, all the good work you've done for the gays. Huzzah!

[AtomicKitten]

130. There is an amazing paucity of reading comprehension here.

[FredScuttle]

138. So, educate me then

I'm dying to understand your interpretation of Obama's strategy of hiring a known homophobe to MC his campaign event and giving him a working microphone and plenty of time to wax poetic about how God delivered him from the evil plague of homosexuality as advancing the cause of "inclusiveness"

Do tell...

[LostinVA]

159. Bingo -- and we notice and appreciate it, Fred

[FredScuttle]

173. Can you believe this bullshit?

:shrug:

[LostinVA]

175. Yes and no

Yes, I'm unfortunately not surprised it's posted, but no... I am a bit surprised it's still here. UGH.

I would post more, nut I have to go and put in some snivelling time... I'm a bit behind today.

[FredScuttle]

177. Don't forget to grovel

and rend yourself in abject awe to the heroic DU'ers who have done so much for you ingrates. :sarcasm:

[LostinVA]

178. Damn! I forgot!

[William769]

105. Yes we are drama queens, aren't we?

[AtomicKitten]

108. Yes, and my gay friends think you are too.

[William769]

110. Why is it people keep posting about their friends.

Can't you stand on your own two legs? I want to hear from people who actually post, not someones imagination.

[AtomicKitten]

111. they are an excellent frame of reference for me to know

the sniveling here at DU is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the top

[Toasterlad]

115. Wait, Wait, I Wanna Play Too!

I was having tea with Mr. Snuffleupagus and Tigger the other day, when Captain Cruch sailed up and took us all for a boat ride!

See, I can have imaginary friends, too!

[yardwork]

119. I'm missing this whole exchange because key posters are on "ignore!"

LOL! This morning nobody was on my ignore list and now half the posters to this thread are on ignore and things are just ducky.

[Toasterlad]

128. Yes, If You Have Atomic Kitty on Ignore, You're Missing Quite a Bit.

Accusations of hysteria, accusations of name-calling, claims of support for the GLBT community, demands to shut our whiny holes, MORE claims of support for the GLBT community, assertions of gay friends who agree with her, MORE accusations of hysteria... etc, etc.

What you are NOT missing is any empathy for the GLBT position, or any sort of rational explanation for Obama's actions.

[yardwork]

147. LOL! I'm so glad that I'm missing all that.

Gross. Sounds like a freeper troll on the loose, to me.

[LeftyMom]

158. Oh, I remember the "some of by best friends are gay and they think I'm 100% right!" thing

That tired old nag was ridden around for a few laps during the snickers thing. It looked half-dead then, and doesn't seem any more spirited this time around.

Interestingly enough, none of these gay friends who agree with the poster ever seem to have working internet connections.

[zulchzulu]

136. Likewise...

It just sickened me seeing people here who are hellbent on thinking anyone who supports Obama is a homophobe. What worthless dialogue.

[Toasterlad]

137. Not Everyone. Just You.

[yardwork]

146. You should alert on any post that says that. I haven't seen any.

On the other hand, if you are defending Obama on this subject, then you might be a bigot.

[AtomicKitten]

121. I suspect they are the only ones you do have.

[Toasterlad]

124. OMG, THAT WAS SO CLEVER!

[LostinVA]

160. Can we lesbians also be drama queens?

I don't want to disappoint AtomicKitten.

[jonnyblitz]

97. you are working hard to acheive equal rights for everyone?

is this BEFORE or AFTER you SPIT on us? anyhow your beloved Senator Osama won't be around much longer after his ass gets kicked in the primary, so all this yelling back and forth is probably moot.I must say, though, he surely does win the prize for a lousy and incompetent campaign and nasty/obnoxious supporters.

so have a nice day, sweetie, and thanks for all you do for the cause. SMOOOOOOOCH

[AtomicKitten]

100. Yes I will defend myself in the face of unwarranted, carelessly lobbed epithets.

Got a problem with that? Tough shit.

[Toasterlad]

98. Oh, Sweet Jeebus!

How exactly were "my" demands countered? I didn't want the asshole performing at all! The asshole not only performed, he MC'd! And spent the last 1/2 hour preaching about the evils of homosexuality!!! What compromise are you talking about? The inclusion of a gay preacher who said a short prayer at the very beginning to a half empty house? In what Bizzaro universe do you find a "compromise" of any sort there?

What exactly are you doing to work towards equal rights for me and my brothers and sisters? Besides talking? Besides making excuses for the incredible insult that Obama has handed to our community? If that's your kind of "help", we don't need it. We don't want it. Stop pretending you're on our side, and just come out and admit you support Obama the Panderer, not Obama the Unifier. At least that way I'd have a tiny shred of respect for your honesty.

[AtomicKitten]

109. I would have to care what you think first.

[Toasterlad]

113. Spoken Like a True Friend of the GLBT Community. Or a True Obama Supporter.

[AtomicKitten]

118. The LGBT community at DU apparently confuses kissing one's ass

with support. I subscribe to the latter and will not apologize for refusing to kiss anyone's ass. Particularly rude, snotty people.

[Toasterlad]

123. Yes, That's All We Want. Our Asses Kissed.

When we complain because a presidential candidate who claims to be on our side hires a performer to speak out against us in front of a group of people who hate our guts, all we're really looking for is a little kiss on the ass.

If you are indicative of Obama's supporters, it's no wonder this clusterfuck happened in the first place. It's also clear there's no way he can sustain a credible campaign. Tell me: will you go with him when he goes away? Here's hopin'!

[FredScuttle]

129. The only ass being kissed in this sad affair

is Rev. McClosetCase's. The Obama campaign, for whatever reason, is bending over backwards to defend and protect this homophobe and putting supporters like you in the unenviable position of supporting it. Sad.

[Karenina]

134. WOW! Just...

:wow::wow::wow:

[CyberPieHole]

170. Have you re-read any of your posts?

Do any of them seem a tad bizarre? :shrug:

[AtomicKitten]

156. as opposed the histrionics on-line that get some of you all atwitter?

[William769]

102. So your saying I should compromise on my rights?

How very straight and narrow of you!

[LostinVA]

157. Just because you keep repeating that doesn't make it true

I feel like I fell down the rabbit hole.

[CyberPieHole]

169. Ha!!!

You are joking right? You couldn't really think that highly of yourself and still be serious. Thanks for he laugh.

[Ediacara]

186. If that's your attitiude, I don't want your help

You may think you're not a bigot, and you probably aren't. Just go away. You're not helping anymore, especially yourself.

[LostinVA]

155. "Sniveling" -- *yawn*

[CyberPieHole]

165. "sniveling"

Do you realize how offensive that is to some people?

[Ediacara]

183. What nonsense!

He could have canned McClurkin a week ago, apologized, and be done with it.

You're right though, there's nothing he can do now, he kept on making a series of bad decisions that show, more than anything, he's so not ready for prime time, he should drop out now and save himself the embarrassment.

[AndyA]

65. So when are they going to hang nooses in the trees at an Obama event?

He may not agree with it, but he'll allow it to happen anyway, right?

B U L L S H I T !

Barack should know that if someone appears at one of his events with a message, that's pretty much the same as an endorsement of that person. It isn't equal time to all sides here, it is a planned, invitation only event when it comes to the performers.

Barack should be ashamed of himself.

[FlaxieB]

78. Edwards Supporter trying to Smear Obama

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

163. OMFG

:spray:

[William769]

132. No one has to try anything.

Obama decided who he wanted to get into bed with, and know it's time to pay the piper.

[AndyA]

189. Thank you for your contribution.

Obama is the one creating conflict here.

This was a MAJOR blunder on his part, and shows his true colors, IMO.

[AtomicKitten]

131. Great post, Mr. Zulu.

You have this exactly right. My best to you.

ps: I went to the anti-war demonstration here in SF. It was spectacular.

[Karenina]

140. How very white of you!!!

:hug:

[AtomicKitten]

141. you're welcome

[Karenina]

144. Thanks, AK!

I was expecting an encore of, "Bite me, princess!" :hug:

[AtomicKitten]

145. I have no problem with sarcasm.

Nor with a different point of view. However, I do take issue with the fractious name-calling hate festival here at DU that is causing people to leave left and right. And I also think this has evolved into an orchestrated hit job on Obama. Too many layers of bullshit mixed with reality. So, if you want to throw down, it's on. If not, cheers. Either way is fine with me.

[LostinVA]

164. "Orchestrated hitjob on Obama"

Ohfriggingbrother

[AtomicKitten]

167. You would have to venture outside -

your narcissistic bubble to fully appreciate the pile-on being milked by the HRC sycophants.

Ohfrigginbrother indeed, particularly when the loudest whiners have eviscerated Clinton LGBT policy all along and that's precisely what they will get if Obama doesn't get the nod. I'll bet you haven't thought it through that far yet though, right?

You apparently subscribe to the "bite off your nose to spite your face" school of outrage.

[LostinVA]

172. Thys myy by thy stypydyst ryspynsy yvy yvyr ryyd yn hyry

ybd thyts syyyng ylyt.

[swimboy]

179. Yts hyrd ty syy

thyrs sy mych thyts sy stypyd. :crazy:

[LostinVA]

180. Thy stypydyty shyyld ny lyngyr ystyynd my, byt yt dyys

Ynd yhyry's sy mych stypyd tydyy. Y wys jyst cyllyd a rycyst bycyysy Y ym yffyndyd by hymyphybyy.

[jonnyblitz]

176. boy you sure do lots of projecting, girlfriend!!

you are one of the biggest name callers around.

[Ediacara]

187. Orchestrated hit job? Name calling?

Ya, that must be it.... No one could be genuinely concerned about human rights..... it's all Hillary's fault....

:eyes:

[zulchzulu]

143. Thanks

I remember the protests in SF before the war started. Thousands and thousands of people trying to stop the madness...it seems like a million years ago.

Best to you as well...as always.

[LostinVA]

149. Oh brother -- you could have saved bandwidth by just writing

"Obama's antigay and that's just fine with me!"

[Catchawave]

162. I'm not mad at Barack, I'm mad at his handlers....

and how these mixed messages would translate from the Oval Office.

Definitely a Jump the Shark moment for him :cry:

[Rowdyboy]

166. Thats your choice. We all get one vote and mine will go to either Edwards or Clinton now.....

Campaigns are about making choices-Obama made his, you made yours and I've made mine. This was a rookie mistake that he could have handled quickly and easily....Instead he let it play out horrendously til the end. It was a very stupid move and he'll pay for it. Do I think Obama is a bigot or homophobe? Hell, no. But you're known by the company you keep and he's now aligned himself with what I and many others consider human trash. Thats why campaigns are important-they tend to reveal a candidates true character.

And so it goes....

[w4rma]

171. That's too bad, zulchzulu. We could use your help on the Edwards campaign.

He's the only progressive choice to take on Hillary with, imho.

[calteacherguy]

174. K&R. nt

[Pushed To The Left]

181. K&R!

[Major Hogwash]

182. I've been called worse than a homophobe or a racist, just shake it off and move forward.

Take it from me, living in Idaho isn't "peaches and cream" all the time.
First thing we have had to do is to live down the history of letting white racists dominate the upper portion of our state for almost 25 years by letting white separatists and white supremacists live up there.
I'll let you in on a little secret we learned about those people - there is no difference between them, they are the same.
Once we got rid of Richard Butler and his little "church" worshipping Hitler and white supremacy, their organization crumbled like a cookie.

Then, somehow, we got tagged for being a state full of homophobes.
I think it may have started in the late 90's with Representative Helen Chenoweth.
Her chief of staff was a well-known racist and homophobe.

So, whenever they start calling you names, just remember one thing Dr. King said - "Keep your eyes on the prize."

Don't take it off to look at the angry crowd yelling at you for doing what you believe in.

Dr. King's "I have a dream" speech is not just a speech of hope, it is a speech calling for action. It is a speech calling for change.
It is a speech to get us out of our chairs and on our feet, to get us out of our comfort zones, and to motivate us to do that in which we believe.

Christians do not participate in "guilt by association" accusations.
Keep that in mind.

[rasputin1952]

188. Let me first state the obvious, there are bigots in every aspect

of our society. I cannot think of one part of our society that does not suffer from the effects of some form of bigotry.

Now for the less obvious...Far too often, there are those of us who see bigotry for what it is, and then there are those of us who are bigots that refuse to accept that we are bigots in some form.

This whole McClurkin thing has shown me that many forms of bigotry, from all corners of our society are alive and well within our community.

Other than the fact that this incident(s) has received far more attention than it is due, it has shown me that bigotry is not restricted to race, sexual orientation or sex. There is more than enough guilt to around on each level and from every aspect.

There may someday be a time when we can all look at around us and see that we feed the monster of bigotry from every corner of the room, none appear to safe, and this is the sad part of watching us devolve into the very thing we say we despise.

Everyone should take a deep breath, do a little introspection, and realize that the division we create among ourselves is the very thing that can destroy us.

[zulchzulu]

190. Nicely said n/t

[mondo joe]

191. McClurkin won't stop me from supporting Obama. Obama's decision to give McClurkin an

audience will.

[zulchzulu]

192. Since we're rehashing this unfortunate event... n/t