"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster..."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

When I first started posting in this forum...( I have been posting at DU for over four years) I really had no dog in this fight... I liked all the candidates, though some struck me as having better general election chances than others...But then I started posting here and the attacks forced me to take sides and has hardened my heart against some candidates... It reminds me of 1980 ,1984 and 1988 when I was a stalwart supporter of Ted Kennedy Gary Hart,and Al Gore ... I literally despised Jimmy Carter , Walter Mondale , and Michael Dukakis because they stood between the candidate I loved and the presidency...For a while I couldn't even stand to see them on the television...When I would argue with my friends I would say Gary Hart represented the "new politics" and Mondale was a party hack who practiced the "politics of negativism and despair"...I don't remember what I said about Jimmy Carter but I knew he wasn't Ted Kennedy...

I now realize they were all Democrats and their vision for the country was fundamentally different than the Republicans and I was just being prideful and foolish...

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster."

-Friedrich Nietzsche

[C_U_L8R]

1. He who lays down with Republicans

wakes up in airport bathrooms

[Jim__]

2. Never argue with a fool.

One of my favorite quotes: "Never argue with a fool. Someone watching may not be able to tell the difference."

[CrispyQ]

3. SCOTUS

No matter how much one objects to a dem candidate, it would be wise to remember that any democratic nominee to the Court will not be nearly as odious as a GOP nominee. Can't stand X candidate & are determined to vote third party if X gets the candidacy? Remember Scalia, Alito & Roberts & think in terms of decades.

Gary Hart would have been a fine statesman. I wish he had stayed in politics. A friend & I worked on his senate campaign in high school. We wanted to join DECA -- a program where they place seniors in a job & you work in the afternoon instead of attending classes. They said that working on a campaign didn't qualify. We contested & won. After the election, we found our own jobs with the county government for the second semester. It was a fantastic learning experience.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. I Was In Grad School In 84

I lobbied all my friends to vote for him...A lot of them ended up voting for Jesse Jackson and George McGovern... I think he would have won in 88 if he wasn't sunk by L'affaire Rice...

[yardwork]

5. Yes, any Democratic president would be worlds better than any Republican.

The Republican Party is utterly corrupt. It is entirely beholden to corporations, and it is making fascist use of people's religions, beliefs, and fears to control the population.

I'm very disappointed in Obama for pandering to bigots, but that doesn't mean that I mistake him for a Republican. Likewise, I am unhappy with Hillary Clinton for several reasons - but that never means that I wouldn't vote for her in the general election if she is the candidate.

On the other hand, support for Democrats does not mean that we blindly support them no matter what. We must insist that they stay true to democratic ideals. Otherwise, we become just as bad as the Republicans, just as bad as the 20% who stubbornly support the chimp no matter what he does.

There are two important points here, I think:

1. We must support Democrats and insist that the voting is fair and the votes are counted.
2. We must continue to insist that ALL Democrats stay committed to human rights and democracy, and never excuse their faults.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. My Point Was A Little Different

I found myself hating the primary opponents of the candidate I liked more than I hated the Rethuglicans... Maybe it was the "narcissism of small differences." I didn't like what I was subconsciously doing then and find myself doing it again...

[yardwork]

7. I understood that to be your point, and I was responding.

The reasons that we get upset with various Democratic candidates - to the point of disliking them even more than Republicans - are complex, but some if it involves holding the Democrats to higher standards. That is a good thing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. It's Even More Profound Now

Because we all have more experience with our opponent's supporters than we ever had before the advent of the net...