Hillary "Troubled" By Mukasey On Torture, But Won't Rule Out Supporting Him

[babylonsister]

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/10/_hillary_troubled_by_mukasey_on_torture_but_wont_rule_out_supporting_him.php

Hillary "Troubled" By Mukasey On Torture, But Won't Rule Out Supporting Him
By Greg Sargent - October 30, 2007, 10:55AM

Tonight the Dem Presidential candidates are set for another debate, and it seems likely that one question that will come up is whether the Dems support AG nominee Michael Mukasey in light of his refusal to condemn waterboarding and other techniques as torture.

As noted here yesterday, two of the Dem Senators running for President -- Chris Dodd and Barack Obama -- have ruled out voting to confirm him. And Hillary? Where does she stand on Mukasey? Well, it remains unclear:

"Senator Clinton is deeply troubled by Judge Mukasey's unwillingness to clearly state his views on torture and unchecked executive power," a spokesman for her Senate office, Philippe Reines, told the Sun in an e-mail yesterday.

Mr. Reines refused to say whether that meant that Mrs. Clinton intended to oppose Judge Mukasey or even whether she has made a final decision...

This provides an opening for Hillary's Dem rivals to press her for clarity on this tonight. Meanwhile, Ben Smith notes that Camp Hillary is already laying the groundwork to spin the inevitable criticism of her from rivals tonight as desperate political attacks.

[saracat]

1. And this doesn't bother those on DU who say they are against torture?

Can't anyone see what this candidate is doing? And it is opkay with some? This is outrageous!

[madrchsod]

5. somehow they`ll deflect the issue as a smear against hillary.

is hillary being better safe than sorry ?

[The Wielding Truth]

32. This should be more than enough to reject him!

If he would cross this line what line would he not cross?
:thumbsdown:

[crickets]

69. Apparently there are some DUers who are not against torture

I don't think there are many, by any means, but it was a shock to run into one or two of them. The question asked in a prior post was, "Where or when has Hillary demonstrated a loss of principles?" My answer, with links, was with her stance on torture. Someone actually argued that this was an okay thing. Ow.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3654296#3657346

People, you're allowed to love your candidate and still disagree with some of his or her political stances, especially this one.

[BobRossi]

2. What do you expect....

She's a Repub... Oops!

[Moochy]

3. Get Ready For The New War from 44!

[rateyes]

4. Hillary is in a tight spot, here:

The judge is from NY, and is supported by Schumer. Add that to the fact that she refuses to say her vote for the IWR was a mistake, and that she looks hawkish on Iran, and her wavering on Mukasey looks weak.

Is it possible for Hillary to take a principled stand on ANY issue? She looks more and more like Joe Lieberman every day.

[rurallib]

6. I believe you have nailed it.

[hedgehog]

13. Joe :Lieberman does take principled stands. They're his principles,

and we disagree with them, but nonetheless....

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robinlynne]

23. She is the only dem candidate who won't take a stand on FISA!

[creeksneakers2]

63. Hillary voted against the GOP FISA bill n/t

[robinlynne]

65. How did she do that? the vote hasn't happened yet.

[creeksneakers2]

66. The last time FISA was up in the Senate. n/t

[robinlynne]

67. great, but a worse one is up right now, and every other candidate has taken a stand.

She will not. Immunity for felonies committed by ATT, Verizon, and Bush are in question and on the line here.

[robinlynne]

68. P.S. It is not only Clinton, but in reality Clinton and Richardson.

Everyone else stood up for the constitution.

[Elidor]

7. Wow, what leadership

:eyes:

[gratuitous]

8. This one's such a gimme

Mukasey is traveling down the same well-worn path as Yoo, Gonzales and the rest of the unitary executive bastards who have done so much damage to our country and the world. The simple declaration that we will not torture, condone torture or farm out torture has actually become a controversial statement. And if Clinton can't see past the political calculation to the basic humanity of opposing torture, then it would appear that she's mortgaged a portion of her soul in service to her candidacy.

[rateyes]

9. Agreed. nt

[crickets]

70. Exactly! Thank you. -nt

[cali]

10. She should oppose him. n/t

[ixion]

11. ah, Hil, so torture is now merely "troubling"

rather than, say, a Crime Against Humanity. :eyes:

[jmp]

12. This is our "leadership"?

...

[Captain Hilts]

14. He's Chuck Schumer's guy and she's under pressure from Schumer to support him. nt

[babylonsister]

15. So just chuck away any principles she might have, for Schumer? As

someone else said, 'some leader'.

[Captain Hilts]

17. All votes in the senate are a product of bargaining. I hope she votes 'no' too. nt

[babylonsister]

19. I guess that's true, except for people like Feingold, who actually has

principles and uses them. It's not 'all' about bargaining all the time. Sometimes you just have to do what's right.

[Captain Hilts]

26. LOVE Feingold and wish he were running. Clark/Feingold was my dream. nt

[Forkboy]

16. And that sums her up perfectly.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

18. Consistency is king...

1). Hillary "Troubled" By Mukasey On Torture, But Won't Rule Out Supporting Him

2). Hillary "Troubled" By Other Bush Administration Policies, But Won't Rule Out Voting In Favor Of Them

3). Amerigo Vespucci "Troubled" By Hillary, Has Ruled Out Voting For Her

:patriot:

[mvd]

20. LOL at that third one

I'm voting for her in the GE, but that was funny.

[Stephanie]

21. Of course it's unclear. When has she ever taken a clear position on anything?

Sheesh, this is news?

[RufusTFirefly]

24. Keep that powder dry, Hill! n/t

[Schema Thing]

25. She's ruled out supporting him unless he repudiates torture.

[RufusTFirefly]

28. Well, that's easy enough.

Haven't you heard the pResident? "We don't torture."

Translated that means "We don't inflict pain that is the equivalent of death or organ failure."

Bring on the waterboards, yahoo!

[Schema Thing]

52. I've heard the president. Hillary has decided to make the

incoming AG repudiate the presidents position.

Surely you knew what I meant when I said "repudiate"?

[Exultant Democracy]

27. This OP is a sexist republican talking point...did I get that right Clintonites?

I can't even comprehend the mental gymnastics that so called progressives have to go through to support Clinton.

Kyl/Lieberman and now this.

[cuke]

29. Nope. The correct answer is "HRC opposed Mukasey"

Try another smear

[Exultant Democracy]

55. Kyl/ Lieberman eom

[babylonsister]

31. Excuse me? Me or Sargent from TPM? Either way, you're way off base.

Grow up and stop calling people names just because you don't agree with their opinion. And BTW...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3663008&mesg_id=3663008

[Exultant Democracy]

54. It was a joke, should have put the sarcasm tag on.

[mark414]

30. i thought Mukasey was pretty clear: the president can do whatever he wants

way to lead on yet another issue hillary!

[cuke]

33. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3663008

[mark414]

38. huh?

grow up?

you and i were very cordial in a couple encounters over the last few days...why the sudden change in tone? i write a fact, and then follow it up with some campaign cliches, and now i need to grow up?

hillary's campaign says one thing, and then it says another (according to your link, and the OP). do you understand why people might be confused? this isn't the first time her campaign has done something like this...

[cuke]

39. You're right. I apologize

sorry for being so snippy

[mark414]

62. no worries

tensions have been high in this place lately....i am guilty of going overboard myself

hopefully it will cool down once the primaries are over...

[slipslidingaway]

34. K&R, more on Mukasey here...

There are several posts that people can look through for more information.

http://balkin.blogspot.com/

[cuke]

35. Hillary opposes Mukasey

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3663008

Try another smear

[babylonsister]

36. ...finally. She didn't when this thread was started. nt

[mondo joe]

37. Given that for 7 years we've had a president who won't change his mind,

no matter what the data and regardless of consideration: good for her.

[cuke]

40. Finally?

Other's just started speaking out about this in the last few days. It's not a race, and counting the hours between statements is pretty petty. There's nothing wrong with a candidate deliberating or even delaying their statement for any number of reasons.

[babylonsister]

42. Then you calling anyone who writes anything about it a 'smear' is a

bit premature, no? No answer necessary.

[slipslidingaway]

48. Yes a bit premature IMO n/t

[slipslidingaway]

47. Did you even look at the thread I posted, where is the smear???

And I saw the other threads saying she would not support him after posting the link to additional discussions, which do not smear Hillary BTW.

It's great to defend someone's position, but to be so defensive when there is not any reason to do so??? :shrug:

Also I nominated both threads saying she will not support him before your comment.

[rateyes]

50. Well, I guess the political winds finally blew in her direction

on this one. About time.

[MLFerrell]

41. Take note, Hill-shills...

You will be every bit as responsible for the accession of this monster as the Bushite / freepers were/are for the accession of *.

[cuke]

43. Take note Hillary Haters

Hillary opposes Mukasey

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3663008

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. WTF Is A Hill Shill ?

DSB

[cali]

45. I'm noy a Hillary supporter or "hill shill" as you so

unpleasantly put it, but choke on this: She's issued a statement saying she's opposing him. so sorry that you can't be smug and lecture her supporters anymore on this. Oh well, you'll surely find something else.

[PurityOfEssence]

46. Once again, on both sides of a major issue

The hard part is figuring out which will please the most people and displease the least.

Decisions, decisions...

[cali]

49. Wrong. She's opposing Mukasey. She's issued a statement

and it's posted here in GDP. Oh well. There's always tomorrow.

[Captain Hilts]

51. She's voting against Mukasey, so the issue is moot. What were you saying again? nt

[babylonsister]

53. Behold who posted this: you were saying?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3663008&mesg_id=3663008

Nice try though. Doesn't negate the fact she wasn't 'sure' what she'd do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. Aren't We Supposed To Think Before Acting?

I always thought the Repukes were the (reactionary) party

[babylonsister]

57. You're discounting standing on principle, which she didn't appear to do.

Again, she was weighing what was best politically for herself. If principle entered into it, she'd have been on board post haste.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. Mukasey Will Get Serventy Plus Votes

All Bush*'s appointments suck... That's the price of not controlling the White House...

[babylonsister]

61. That has nothing to do with the principles of the person in question, but

I guess there is no answer to that.

[creeksneakers2]

64. How can you be sure Hillary has sinister motives?

How can you be certain she would have immediately decided to vote against Mukasey if she was sincere? Perhaps she was allowing the nominee time to fix his answers on torture and other issues.

Hillary has to be very careful what she promises because if it turns out that her promise wasn't a good idea and she changes it she'll be hounded forever about it.

[AtomicKitten]

58. When it comes to torture, this should be a no-brainer for the candidates.

The fact that any Democratic candidate is squishy on it makes me want to yak.

On edit: Obama on torture: http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/ObamaTorture.htm

[AzDar]

60. Mmmmm....waffles.

[nealmhughes]

71. She officially dumped him on the 30th. Per her office: the link is below.

http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=286284&&