Poll: 74% of SC African Americans say homosexuality "unacceptable"

[CTLawGuy]

"A September poll conducted by Winthrop University and ETV showed that 74 percent of South Carolina African-Americans believe homosexuality is "unacceptable.""

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/29/obama-supporter-god-delivered-me-from-homosexuality/

That is a staggering number. Also blacks are a huge chunk of the Democratic base in SC. And it looks like a big chunk of that big chunk have bigoted views about homosexuality.

Is it a good idea that a state like SC is an early primary state given this statistic? What sort of incentives does this create for candidates? What incentives DID it create for Obama (I think we know the answer)?

[jmp]

1. The church at work.

...

[CTLawGuy]

3. its a scary statistic

I marvel at how socially conservative blacks still vote for us. I guess they just really distrust the Rs.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Becuse They Know The Rethugs Have Evil Intentions Toward Them Too

DSB

[harun]

53. Morality at work (n/t)

[jmp]

61. Don't blame morality.

Most people have morals ... they aren't all hateful.

Homosexuals aren't out to hurt anyone.
Bigots are.
Who is immoral?

[Not Me]

2. Online polling is not a poll.

Especially with emotionally charged topics like this.

[CTLawGuy]

4. that was not an online poll

NT

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. I Don't Think It Was An Online Poll

And those results are alternately sad and troubling...

It's the Church at work as the other poster says...

[hisownpetard]

97. Love your screenname! nt

[Ninja Jordan]

6. Bigots, all of them!

:crazy:

[CTLawGuy]

9. you can't say that doesn't scare you

it scares me. what's going on down there in the South?

[yardwork]

28. Actually, they are bigots. Anyone who thinks that being gay is "unacceptable" is a bigot.

Do you disagree? If so, why?

[jmp]

69. "Judge not ..."

Some preacher said that once, but I can't seem to recall his name or how the rest of it went. You wouldn't by any chance know, would you?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

100. yes they are. race/religion is no excuse for bigotry.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

8. Selective result, though.

That 74% is the sum of "very unacceptable" and "somewhat unacceptable."

Finding gay sex "somewhat unacceptable" is not an extreme position in these United States, especially since those respondents passed up the chance to pick "very unacceptable." That is, those respondents chose not to ally themselves with an uncompromising moral stance, and went for the wishy-washy "somewhat"

That's actually progress, of a sort.

[CTLawGuy]

12. how do you know the poll asked those two questions?

NT

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

22. This poll was discussed a bunch a few days ago, and the link in that

discussion went to a more complete description of the poll that broke it down four ways. very-un, somewhat-un, somewhat-accept, vary-accept. I remember looking at it and thinking about the "somewhat" issue.

(Not accusing you of being selective by the way -- I was referring to the headline figure, which has been out there for a few days, and is not your characterization)

I do not recall what proportion of the opposition was "very" vs. "somewhat," but I think somewhat was bigger. I remember the 74% figure, so I'm assuming this is the same poll. Don't have a link, just memory.

If I'm wrong, I apologize, but that's my recollection.

[CTLawGuy]

40. its ok

it didn't say in the CNN article so I was curious.

[sandnsea]

10. SC Clinton Co-chairs voted to ban gay marriage

Probably had a lot to do with John Matthews and Linda Short voting for the state constitutional amendment that banned gay marriage, and being appointed Hillary's state co-chairs.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FredScuttle]

16. "gay gestapo"??

Dude, that is really uncalled for.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. "gay gestapo"

"gay gestapo", "HRC mafia",

All we need is a Japanese connection and we have the new AXIS powers...

[sandnsea]

17. That doesn't help either

You can make the point without being inflammatory.

[Ninja Jordan]

18. So can they, but it hasn't stopped them.

[FredScuttle]

20. Ah yes, the old "moral equivalency" point

because everyone criticizing Obama has called him a Nazi.....or not.

I think you owe an apology to the LGBT community here.

[Ninja Jordan]

21. Nope, theyve called him a 'bigot,' 'homophobe' et al.

I've been called these things for trying to defend him as well.

[FredScuttle]

25. McClurkin is a bigot

Obama put out a press release yesterday defending him. Ergo, Obama is defending bigotry.

That's what I've seen....I haven't seen anyone call him a homophobe directly, although you're more than welcome to provide a link if that's the case.

I don't think you're a bigot or a homophobe....I'm just disappointed that you would defend bigotry and homophobia like this. And then, on top of it, call the LGBT community here a bunch of Nazis. Sad.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FredScuttle]

29. Yes, people who believe homosexuality is a "curse" are bigots

even if their belief comes from God. Religion is not a cloak for bigotry.

And please desist in using the term "gestapo"...you've been alerted once on it already and you're going to be alerted again.

[Ninja Jordan]

31. I'm sure I'll be banned.

But I'm not going to be called a bigot or homphobe without a fight.

[FredScuttle]

34. "I won't be called a bigot!"

says the guy who calls the LGBT community here a "gestapo" and posts in another thread that he's "morally opposed" to homosexuality based on his Catholicism, even though Jesus didn't say a fucking word about homosexuality.

Uh-huh.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[Ninja Jordan]

43. Are you seriously arguing that the Catholic Church isn't against homosexuality?

[FredScuttle]

47. Like I asked in the other thread

please quote me the verse from the New Testament where Jesus opposed homosexuality.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FredScuttle]

62. Oh, you're going by the Catholic Church, not Catholicism

Yes, the good people at the Catholic Church who brought you protecting child rapists from the law. Well, whatever they say is jake with me! :sarcasm:

[Ninja Jordan]

64. Huh? It's in the CANON.

You've officially lost this argument.

[FredScuttle]

75. Oh well, I lose the argument that you bastardize your faith to justify bigotry

Congrats. I'll be over here, not giving a shit.

[yardwork]

78. It used to be in the Canon that the earth was flat, and people were executed for saying otherwise.

Still make it ok?

[MNDemNY]

91. The the canon is bigoted.

[yardwork]

48. Yes. Prove otherwise.

[mondo joe]

55. If you choose a homophobic view, you're a homophobe.

What is there to fight about that?

[LostinVA]

99. If you don't want to be called a bigot, then don't defend bigotry

It's quite simple really.

[MNDemNY]

103. The more you fight...

the more bigoted and homophopic you sound.

[yardwork]

30. Yes, they are! The same as people who justified slavery on religious grounds.

This is ridiculous. I can't believe that you are defending this! It is absolutely bigotry to state that there is something wrong with being gay. Using religious grounds doesn't make it ok.

And your term the "gay gestapo" is extremely offensive.

[Ninja Jordan]

32. Being called a bigot for following the tenets of one's church is offensive

[The Magistrate]

35. Why Is That, Mr. Jordan?

Do you suppose religious doctrines to be immune to the usual run of human failings, including bigotry and hatred?

[FredScuttle]

36. No, being a bigot and trying to hide behind your church is offensive

Why don't you step into the light and proclaim how much you hate gays and lesbians and it has nothing to do with your faith?

[Ninja Jordan]

39. that isn't the case, though

[FredScuttle]

44. Do you think homosexuality is wrong?

n/t

[Ninja Jordan]

51. In my personal, private religious life yes. But I dont let that prevent my support

of equal rights in our secular government. I am in favor of granting GLBT's equal rights.

[FredScuttle]

57. Bully for you

just don't let 'em move in next to you, am I right? :sarcasm:

[Ninja Jordan]

63. Still think the catholic church isn't opposed to homosexuality?

Kind silent now aren't you?

[FredScuttle]

66. I already answered you

Catholics who truly honor their faith are not party to bigotry.

[Ninja Jordan]

67. Do you believe the Pope is the representative of St. Peter on earth?

The Pope has preached against homosexuality.

[FredScuttle]

72. Let me explain something

I was raised Roman Catholic. I am no longer Roman Catholic, mostly due to people like you who use the faith to justify bigotry, sexism and a host of other ills.

And, oh yeah...the Church hierarchy, including the Pope, are a bunch of pedophile coddlers.

[yardwork]

82. I just remembered that I was raised Episcopalian and left for the same reasons!

People can escape bigoted institutions. I still believe in God. I just don't happen to believe that the Episcopalians have the lock on the truth.

[hisownpetard]

98. I agree. nt

[sandnsea]

60. That's Clinton supporter Darrell Jackson's position

Funny nobody is calling him a bigot.

[NMMNG]

109. Such a cowardly position to take

Either own your bigotries or give them up. Don't hide behind the church.

[yardwork]

37. Slave holders were following "the tenets of their church."

The Nazis murdered millions of Jewish people on the basis of their reading of the Bible. White supremacists justify their belief that black people are inferior with selective readings from the Bible. These are all examples of bigotry.

Anyone who believes that gay people are wrong to be gay is a bigot. It doesn't matter what text or religion you claim justifies that belief. It is a bigoted belief.

[Ninja Jordan]

41. Nonsense. Various church movements were a big reason why abolition succeeded.

[yardwork]

46. Learn some history! Biblical teachings were used to justify slavery.

Other, more enlightened Christians recognized that the Bible does not justify slavery, just as so enlightened Christians today recognize that there is no justification for bigotry against gay people.

Millions of Christians sacrificed their lives for the rights that you take for granted. How dare you misrepresent their views to justify your own bigotry!

[mondo joe]

58. You need scripture? The bible is okay with slavery. It even provides

instruction on keeping slaves, and on being one.

[The Magistrate]

59. And Straight Biblical Citation, Sir, Was A Leading Reason Slavery Endured

The Bible abound with forthright endorsements of slavery, and in both Testaments. One has to draw logical conclusons from statements of 'equality in Christ' and the like to argue against slavery on Biblical grounds, but to argue for it, one can cite flat pronouncements that slaves should obey their masters, and even that Christia masters should not emancipate slaves they own who are Christians, as well as large bodies of law regulating the practice,

[Ninja Jordan]

65. Trying to compare slavery with homosexuality isn't correct.

[yardwork]

76. We're comparing justification for bigotry against black people

with justification for bigotry against gay people. Are you saying that black people are more deserving of human rights than gay people?

[The Magistrate]

81. That, Sir, Has Nothing To Do With the Points Under Discussion Here

You claimed religious movements were the ground for abolitionist success, which is true so far as it goes, but it goes a good deal less than halfway down the whole road, as demonstrated.

You have also claimed that because something is a tenet of a religion, it cannot also be bigotry. How you could even begin to support that escapes me.

[NMMNG]

101. The same Bible you use to justify bigotry to LGBTs

is the same Bible slave owners used to justify slavery. The cafeteria plan is peachy when you're railing against others, but not so hot when it's being used against you, is it?

[bullwinkle428]

106. Church movements SPRUNG UP to ADVANCE abolition,

as nearly all of the mainline churches at that time were using the Bible to justify the practice of slavery!

[mondo joe]

56. Choosing a faith with bigoted tenets makes one a bigot.

[Ninja Jordan]

68. You're on ignore now.

[mondo joe]

83. Good. You were ignoring the truth anyway.

[MNDemNY]

88. If the tenet is bigoted...wear the shoes!!!

[MNDemNY]

104. Cloaking bigotry in the "tenets" of owns church is a cop-out.

Hide behind the skirt of the pope if you must....but that just shows your ignorance.

[chaumont58]

45. What defines a bigot?

It sure as shit isn't logic.

The biggest single force against allowing gay men and women to walk upright in sunlight is the hardcore brain dead christians. Most educated, thoughtful people understand that homosexuality is not a choice. It ain't like wearing a different tie, or putting on different shoes this morning. Still the christians would have what can not be changed banned. But, they would never admit to being cruel. After all, they embrace the God of love. Bigger than shit.

[IndianaJones]

70. singling out Christians is not fair. nt.

[yardwork]

77. Talk to the OP. He said that being a Catholic means it's ok for him to be a bigot.

[IndianaJones]

79. can't read it now. nt.

[yardwork]

84. There's plenty left.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3663022&mesg_id=3663232

[IndianaJones]

85. I just got ignored by that user. Apparently on moral grounds. nt.

[yardwork]

86. You're going to get it now! It's in the Canon!

[IndianaJones]

87. to be fair, its way more than just Christianity with that attitude. nt.

[yardwork]

89. Oh, absolutely. That's just the example at hand.

[sandnsea]

23. Well don't talk to me that way

I put people on ignore who use that kind of language to me.

[Ninja Jordan]

27. Um, excuse me.

You're going on ignore now, buddy. bye bye

[MNDemNY]

93. Please put me on ignore as well, Bigot.

[izquierdista]

11. Sour grapes

Probably just irritated that they can't get laid, homo- or hetero-.

[MNDemNY]

102. It would be against the "canon"!!!

[The Magistrate]

14. What Polls Like This Leave Out, Sir

Is the relative weight of this disapproval, measured aginst other issues. The fact is that, when deciding who to vote for for national office, just about all of the people who indicated belief homosexuality is 'unacceptable' will view this as a minor concern compared to economic issues and questions of civil rights and racial equality. A person they view as sound in these matters they will vote for, regardless of his or her views on homosexuality. Most voters do this sort of balancing test, and on a variety of issues.

[yardwork]

33. It doesn't make it ok to express bigotry toward gay people, though.

Your point is well taken, sir, but I trust that you are not suggesting that bigotry toward anyone is a minor issue.

[The Magistrate]

52. Of Course Not, Ma'am

Bigotry in any form, and in or from any direction, is deplorable.

My point was that the over-all political effect of this reported feeling among Black South Carolinians is minor: faced with a politician who took a hard line on enforcing the Voting Rights Act and advocated fostering minority small businesses and serious improvements in school funding in impoverished districts, while also supporting civil unions or even marriage for homosexuals, virtually all of these people would vote for that candidate on the first three grounds, and ignore the final one, even if they disagreed with it.

It is also worth noting that intensity of disapproval matters, and by no means all persons who personally disapprove of homosexuality on whatever grounds they might do so, therefore reliably oppose equal rights for homosexuals, or support their persecution. A great many people feel some degree of distaste for the thing, but also feel what other people do is their own damned business, and none of their own. That is not, all things considered, too bad a viewpoint in a liberal democracy, and in any case, may be the best that can be got just now in many instances. This is one concern that is most likely to be solved by time: the younger a person is, the more likely they are to have an accepting view-point on this matter. That will not change as they grow older, so that one side gains strength steadily while the strength of the other dwindles just as steadily.

"Time wounds all heels."

[yardwork]

80. I hope that you are right.

[FredScuttle]

15. Ah, Rev. McClosetCase's work is done

and good for Obama for pandering to bigots! :sarcasm:

[CTLawGuy]

42. I hope that wasn't the intention

but given this, there is a chance that might have been.

Again, may the dems should rethink SC as an early primary state.

[FredScuttle]

49. I hope not either

but every indication and action by the Obama campaign leads me to no other conclusion than this was a calculated move with intent.

[MH1]

71. Well sooner or later

Democrats will have to figure out how to get votes from people who hold some views we strongly disagree with.

Or, republicans will continue to make the laws.

How's that working out for you? How's that going to work out for the GLBT community?

[KingFlorez]

19. This is not surprising

It's how these people were raised. On the other hand, these people probably don't really factor these beliefs into who they vote for, I say that because the radical so-called values Republicans don't perform well among this voting bloc.

[kwolf68]

54. Quite true

But in time the Repukes will find a way to appeal to the African-Americans other more Conservative beliefs and trust me they have them.

[iverglas]

73. and that means ... what? -- info about the poll.

I think adultery is strongly unacceptable. So? Why would anybody ask me? If asked, I'd say yes, unacceptable. If asked whether adulterers should be allowed to marry or should be discriminated against in housing or employment, or adulterous activity should be a crime, I'd say no.

http://schotlinepress.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/groundbreaking-winthropetv-poll-of-sc-african-americans/

Interesting results on some other questions: nearly half of respondents have a close friend or family member who is openly gay or lesbian. I don't actually see the "homosexuality" question in the results list.

This reminds me of abortion polling. When broken down to the actual questions -- whether and when abortion should be outlawed, for instance, the results will be very different from the answer to a question like "is abortion acceptable?"

The real issue is whether other people should enjoy the same basic rights as one enjoys one's self. Would all of the people who find homosexuality "unacceptable" say that gay men and lesbians should not enjoy the rights they enjoy? Why not ask them that, and maybe get them to focus their minds a little?

There are even better questions about attitudes themselves. It has been shown, to take the abortion example, that when asked whether abortion should be a matter to be decided by a woman in consultation with her doctor, her family and her god (I can't find the actual wording), a large majority of people say yes.

I wonder whether the results of a poll might be if a question less designed to produce knee-jerk, and essentially meaningless, results were asked.

[alcibiades_mystery]

74. The ironic wedge issue of the Democratic coalition

If only we'd listened to all those damn English professors who talked endlessly about race and sexuality in those stupid pomo classes!

:eyes:

[yardwork]

90. What's ironic? Gay people have been THE wedge issue since 2000.

[sakabatou]

92. ::sigh::

[ecstatic]

94. I don't know how reliable that poll is, but if they are voting Dem

than they are doing more for civil rights than repug bigots. Maybe in time opinions will change.

I refuse to lose sleep worrying about who likes me and who doesn't.

[hisownpetard]

95. Therefore: McClurkin. What a sorry state of affairs.

[truebrit71]

96. "Unless they hot b*tches...then all bets are off"

...It speaks more to the overall Neanderthalness of the state as opposed to one ethnic group....

Why this is STILL an issue in the 21st century just boggles the mind...

[AtomicKitten]

105. Obama is the only candidate that goes into the black churches -

... and admonishes them against preaching homophobia. He also is the only candidate to even use the word "homophobe" and actually talk about it in any debate, this time in Tavis Smiley's debate.

In the final analysis, Obama's campaign of inclusiveness resonates with many, many more people than not.

[TrogL]

107. Then he needs to learn the real truth about the ex-gay movement

http://members.shaw.ca/trogl/orient.html

[FredScuttle]

108. which makes his choice of McClurkin to spread his homophobic message at a campaign event

all the more curious. Couldn't Obama maintain some consistency with his strong record on civil rights and LGBT issues, or was the lure of attracting all those anti-gay votes in South Carolina too tempting?

As of this moment? Obama's "campaign of inclusiveness" is a joke to me. As it is to a lot of people who aren't fools and will not be pacified by the campaign's pathetic efforts to placate both sides.