Howard Dean says Americans don't want war funding stopped...

[polichick]

On Hardball he claimed that the whole government would have to be shut down, and people don't want that.

Everyone I know desperately wants Congress to stop funding the war. Is Howard losing touch with the people? And would defunding the war really shut down the government?

[daninthemoon]

1. Aw man, what the hell is going on anymore?

:banghead:

[polichick]

2. Beats the heck out of me...

I worked for Dean and have always admired him, but it's as if ALL the Dems in DC have lost their minds ~ maybe he needs a good dose of brisk Vermont air!

[BeFree]

3. He's right

Most Americans want war. Maybe not so much as want, but need war.

The only way to defund war is to close down the government, because the only way to stop funding war is to stop funding government, war is so pervasive.

I'm afraid the best we can do at this point is to stop the expansion of war. May we be lucky at doing so.

[polichick]

4. Why would refusing to bring the next war funding bill to the floor...

...shut down the whole government? Isn't this idea just rhetoric so people will think it can't be done?

[cuke]

5. Do you think Dean is lying about this?

Or do you think Dean is out of touch? Or is there some other reason he is saying this?

Your "admiration" must not be too deep if you so quickly dismiss what he says as "just rhetoric" meant to fool people

[polichick]

8. My admiration is waning if he's buying the rhetoric of Congressional Dems...

I think Pelosi needs to take herself off the table at this point.

[cuke]

9. It doesn't sound much like admiration for Dean

more like an admiration for your reflection

[BeFree]

10. He is just seeing the reality

If you want to stop the Iraqi war, the only way is to stop bushco: cold.

Well, there aren't many who would get behind stopping bushco cold, tho it may be up tp about 20% now. Not enough.

[cuke]

11. I agree

I'm just ragging on the idea that admiration only lasts as long as the first disagreement

[BeFree]

15. Yepper

There is something to be said about that, and you did.

Unfortunately, bushco has us all by the short hairs and has even succeeded in turning us against each other. If we ever get our shit together, we will quit fighting ourselves and turn on bushco as one. And that turn right now would be to stop all government funding for at least a few days. Wish Dean could get behind THAT, but he's to practical, I imagine.

[cuke]

29. I agree about the getting our shit together

that's why I questioned the admiration. How can we ever get out shit together if we insist on turning our backs on our respected and admired representatives at the first sign of disagreement. Everyone is looking for a leader, but they don't want to be a follower

I don't understand how that works.

[polichick]

13. Maybe, but I sure do miss the Dean that fired up people to use their power...

He was something to behold on the campaign trail!

[BeFree]

16. He's been cornered

His position is holding him back, constraining him. But overall, I'd say that the Good Doctor will be quite successful: if we live long enough.

[polichick]

19. I didn't want him to take that soul-sucking job...

Don't know how he stands it!

[BeFree]

20. Well

It has to be tough to work with that bunch of crooks in DC.

I'm sure Mr. Dean looked at what he could do for the party and took that course. Of course, the last thing he needs is us snapping at his heels when he's facing up to the bad guys. Eh?

[polichick]

21. Reading back, I don't see where I "snapped at his heels"...

The worst I said was that my admiration is waning if he's buying the bullshit they're shoveling in DC. I should be able to be so honest without people snapping at MY heels.

[polichick]

24. That's very rude, and silly to boot. nt

[sandnsea]

6. They want funding tied to withdrawal

That's not the same thing as wanting defunding. The last poll I saw only had around 10% wanting defunding.

But there are candidates who have said they won't vote for funding without a withdrawal plan. I would have hoped Howard would have at least taken that approach.

[ClassWarrior]

44. Exactly. Fully fund a safe, efficient, and IMMEDIATE withdrawal.

NGU.

[janx]

7. I'll answer once I've seent he broadcast or read the transcript. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

12. Obama has pledged to vote "no" on funding that isn't tied into withdrawal.

[ShortnFiery]

14. OMG! Has Howard Dean broke into the Third Way/DLC's Neo-Liberal Kool-aid?!?

This is f**king insane!!! Even our DEMOCRATIC leaders are proving to be CLEARLY OUT OF TOUCH and/or beginning a reign of "in our face" indifferent plutocracy?

[polichick]

17. Well, he's preachin' the party line...

And seems some think I'm out of line for questioning it ~ good grief!

[bigwillq]

18. I was stunned at that line too

and a bit disappointed but he was great the rest of the interview. :bounce:

[polichick]

23. Yeah...

He's convinced that we'll only get out of the war by electing a Dem prez ~ really working that battle.

[bigwillq]

27. Well I do agree with him

that no matter what bill we send the prez...Shrub will veto if we have a time table but I disagree when he says Americans don't support cutting the funding.

[polichick]

30. So many more people will die if we wait for a Dem to take office...

I have to believe there's a faster way to stop the madness. Interesting that Kucinich brought up Bush's mental health this week. Barbara Boxer recently suggested that Bush is unstable, but backtracked when Chris Matthews tried to pin her down. She made it sound as if she'd meant that his policies are unstable.

[MadHound]

22. Wow, and just when I was thinking that Dean was a fairly honest broker in the party

Turns out that he's nothing but a milder, gentler Democratic hack. Hey, Howard, did you take a look at this? <http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/030107_Bush_Iraq_Iran_web.pdf> Yeah, most Americans want the war to end, and are willing to shut down the government to achieve it. After all, it isn't like anything is being accomplished by Congress anyway:shrug: Defund the war and bring the troops home.

[polichick]

28. I keep wondering what it is we don't know...

Must be something big and ugly!

[2rth2pwr]

38. oooooo, the big blackmail conspiracy theory. nt

[polichick]

41. What blackmail conspiracy theory?? nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. Because Bush* Will Literally Allow The Troops In Iraq To Use Sticks

And the Democrats will get blamed...

[polichick]

26. Kucinich is right to bring up the mental health issue. nt

[crickets]

31. Okay, who has been spiking the water supply? -nt

[riqster]

32. The people know that more soldiers will die if we defund the war effort.

Do you really think Uncle Dick will lose a nickel? Will Bechtel? Will Blackwater? Will Bush and his buddy Bin Laden?

Not on your life. The war profiteers will keep on slurping happily at the trough, while Bush yanks armor and such away from the troops, then points to the Dems as the ones responsible for the increased carnage. And the Sheeple WILL BUY IT. Not people here, but the activist community isn't as big as the bunch of cave dwellers (in the Platonic sense) that make up most of the public. And you know the MSM won't point that out, that the Bushistas are using people's lives and deaths as markers in their game.

Dean knows that. So do I. So does my niece, who is in Iraq at this moment. Fund the war, because it won't bring the troops home one damned second earlier that if we don't. Meanwhile, work to throw every single motherfucking Reep out of office.

[polichick]

35. Reminds me of that Dylan song "Only a Pawn in Their Game"

I'm sure you're right that the great spin machine would blame the lack of supplies on the Dems ~ why impeachment is off the table for such evil-doers I'll never understand. God bless your niece.

[riqster]

39. Thanks.

Dylan was (and I imagine still is) a very bright man, as well as a helluva poet.

We are up against the MIC that Ike warned us about; Orwell's worst nightmares have been transcended by what has happened in the last half-century.

To do right, Dean must advocate wrong. What a fucking mess.

[babylonsister]

45. Baloney, not if we get them out of there, and fund their removal ONLY. nt

[riqster]

48. If we could get them out, I'd agree.

If we cut off the funds, do you think Bush would pull them out? Hell, no. He'll steal money from some other agency first.

Almost NONE of our government activities are funded. We are mortgaged to the eyebrows. Bush will do whatever he damned well pleases, and blame everyone but himself when it goes down in flames. He has always done that and always will. You think he'll suddenly change when Congress votes against him? Not a chance. He'll go find some imaginary money and flip us off.

Cut the funding and the little shit will issue a signing statement and take the money anyway. Probably from funds for the poor.

The ONLY REAL CONSEQUENCE of Dems voting to defund the war will be more Reeps in office. Sucks, but until the Sheeple wake up that's the reality.

[ellisonz]

33. Maybe Howard is a pragmatist?

Nah, couldn't be.:eyes:

[Orangepeel]

34. That's true. Most people oppose the war but also oppose cutting funding.

most people want to bring the troops home but are concerned that cutting funding would leave them there unprotected, at least for a time.

Whether that perception is accurate or not, is another question. But Dean is describing what the polls show. The majority of Americans do not want funding cut.

[Adelante]

36. It's true, though

Americans are not for defunding the war. They want the war ended. They want the troops home. But they don't want defunding while the troops are still there.

[lojasmo]

37. Link or quotation. otherwise, I call BULLSHIT.

Without a link or a quote, this thread is fucking worthless.

[jmp]

40. What is the point of the Democratic Party?

Maybe we should all join the GOP and try to move that party to the left. God knows we're having no luck moving the Democrats back to the left. :eyes:

[polichick]

42. "Maybe we should all join the GOP and try to move that party to the left."

Lol ~ that's an idea! I do know people who are leaving the party to become Independents, and I've noticed that some Dems on YouTube say they're supporting Ron Paul.

[riqster]

43. No doubt the 'Leftist' Reeps will be every bit as successful as...

...the Log Cabin Reeps, Black Reeps, Hispanic Reeps, and Female Reeps at moving the platform in one direction or another.

If you aren't a fat old rich white male Dominionist motherfucker, you ain't moving NOTHING in Elephant Country, friends.

[jmp]

46. Apparently the same applies in the Democratic Party.

This is depressing.

[polichick]

47. LOL

Love the way you put that! I agree, and actually find it disturbing that so many young women say they're supporting Ron Paul.

[riqster]

50. Most people don't research this kinda stuff.

Superficiality is encouraged these days ("what candidate would you rather have a beer with?"). Ron Paul sounds OK until you do just a teeny bit of digging, but most folks don't do even that little bit.

We are rapidly becoming worthy of this POS government we have.

[Jade Fox]

49. Has everyone bought the "Stop the funding and you don't support the troops" line?

I just don't get it.

[polichick]

51. I'm with you...

Maybe Dems need to hire Mario Cuomo to deal with the Rep spin machine ~ someone who's willing and able to cut through the crap (the way Dean used to).

[jmp]

52. That is the party line ...

unfortunately