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Wyldwolf's Infuriating Yet 100% Correct Debate Analysis

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 07:33 AM
Original message
Wyldwolf's Infuriating Yet 100% Correct Debate Analysis
Edited on Wed Oct-31-07 07:36 AM by wyldwolf
If Edwards really wanted traction, he should have tried to take Obama down a notch or two. Edwards has a serious chance to overtake Barack, but not so much with Clinton. He scored points by attacking her but how effective will it ultimately be to his own campaign?

On the other hand, Obama failed to live up to the hype he's created over the last week. He didn't go after her any more than he has in the past. This could still help Edwards if disappointed Obama supporters take another look at Edwards. Clinton, though, was expecting Obama to be more aggressive so she was much more aggressive in her responses the first half of the debate. After she realized he was just bobbing and weaving as usual, she was much more relaxed in her answers.

I also need to point out that Iowa voters tend to frown on negativity from candidates. If Obama realized that and backed off at the last minute to let Edwards be the sniper, it was a smart move. But he still looked like a bystander most of the night.

Clinton hurt herself by tripping over her answer to the "Illegal Aliens" drivers license question. It seemed to be the only question she didn't see coming and unfortunately for her, it was near the end of the debate so it left an impression but not so close to the end that it made the press this morning. Many reporters and columnists had already put their stories to bed before it happened. Lucky break for Hillary.

Of course, I know what she meant. I can think something is a good idea without having any intention of implementing it. I can also put a good idea on a short list of other ones. She should have worded her answer a bit better. But I don't believe he trip-up was as much a result of the context of the question as it was Tim Russert's mission to play "gotcha" with our candidates.

I've always liked Joe Biden and was one of the few on DU to defend him against the ridiculous accusation months back that he felt Barack Obama had poor hygiene. To put it another way, I was Biden when Biden wasn't cool. His foreign policy expertise is tops in the presidential field. I would so enjoy watching a General Election with Biden vs. Julie. Joe moved into my second choice position months ago and solidified it tonight. I hope whoever gets the Demnom goes to him for snarky reply advice.

Bill Richardson - my former first choice/former second choice is now my third choice. Some say he's gunning for a place in the Clinton administration. That may be so. But don't discount a Richardson senate run completely. One of the MSNBC analysts last night spoke of a scenario where Richardson could transfer his presidential campaign funds into a Senate campaign.

If Dennis Kucinich was better looking and less kooky, he'd be a front runner. He says the things red meat craving Dems want to hear in regards to policy, however unrealistic as they are in the current political climate, and I get the impression he really feels it. But his tendency for oddness and his Keebler elf appearance turns many people away. Sorry folks, that's just the way it is. But if it's any consolation at all, I, too, have seen a UFO.

In conclusion, this talk about Hillary "losing" the debate is really silly. Since pundits enjoy using Boxing terminology, allow me to as well. Hillary is Muhammad Ali. She's the current champ. Imagine Ali stepping into the ring to take on both Joe Frazier and George Foreman. At the same time. If Ali were to walk out of the ring under his own power after such a match, that would be an accomplishment.

Clinton walked out bruised but she walked out the same way she walked in - the front runner.
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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree and thank you. I know we'll see a multitude of opposite
opinions about the debate (last night) as we have with every one.


However, "they" always say "She lost the debate" so saying it this time means the same as it always has.....very little.
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I was expecting you to make an excuse about
the illegal immigration thing...but you didn't. Do you also agree that standing by that POV can really hurt her in Iowa (daresay cost it for her)...just like Edwards attacking?
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. Would you say it's okay for people to make comments
about Hillary's physical appearance like you did with Kucinich?

I bet you would throw a fit.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. if that's the part you want to stress, I can't stop you.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. That was a pretty simple yes or no question I asked
you wyldwolf.

I'm very interested in your answer, since you're the one who made the comment.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. do you mean how it looks like she has 4 eyebrows?
and annoyingly bally cheeks when she smiles? :shrug:
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. About right...
The only way attacking Hillary in the manner they went at it last night is if she ended up on the floor sobbing...obviously she didn't and thus exited as strong as she entered...

Agree on Biden

Obama just is not good in these formats. I doubt his intention was to let Edwards attack alone for strategic reasons...I'm just not sure he is very good at it in this format...

Gotta disagree a bit on Kucinich, it is more than kookiness and appearance that holds him back. He is to the extreme left on many things, and most importantly, he has shown no talent for governance, either as an executive or a Congressman...

Hillary's answer on the drivers license issue was too nuanced for the average person and should have been clearer...I am sure she will deal with that over the next couple of days...

Edwards did well in being aggressive, and I'm sure made his supporters happier, but don't see how this draws support off of Hillary. She didn't crack, and he failed to demonstrate anything other than he could be aggressive...
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. no
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jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
9. Here's my take.
Edward's didn't know when to say when.

HRC DID trip over herself with that license question, whether she meant well or not. She handles herself extremely well in times of stress, and that's a very good asset for a president.

I also like Joe Biden. He knows foreign policy like the back of his hand, but people don't know him well enough and unfortunately, he won't have the $$$ like Barack or HRC to put himself out in the public.

I just don't know about Richardson. There's something about his demeanor, his uppidy-ness, is the only other word I can think of. I'm not giving up on him yet, though.

You're right about Kucinich. I wouldn't mind seeing him in a top W.H. position. He's a little extreme at times, but that's from growing up during the 'Nam era and knowing that the corrupt government has to stop.

Dodd, unfortunately, just doesn't have what it takes IMHO.


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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. Hillary FUCKED UP and SHOWED it to the WORLD. SHE IS NOT GOOD UNDER
PRESSURE.

:rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl:
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. we
can't hear you.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. Maybe because your fingers are in your ears...
Doesn't sound like you can hear the voters either.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I think you assume a bit much
clearly I was objecting to the imho obnoxious post above, and suggesting it does not effectively sway anybody to the posters view.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Hi there Ethel Kaye. How's Flaxie Bee?
n/t
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
44. Why are you shouting?
It doesn't help your case to do so.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
48. Boo-Hoo.... Tombstoned
Ethelk2044

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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. She'll be baaaaaack!
Edited on Wed Oct-31-07 05:02 PM by wlucinda
Took a bit longer than I expected.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
51. YOUR ASS GOT T'SD!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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FlaxieB Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
11. Obama's style suits him well. You don't have to scream to get your point across.
You have to be competent and clear. Obama displays that. Besides, the media hyped this up Obama said that will be more aggressive towards Clinton, he never said how he was going to do it.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
49. Boo-Hoo....Tombstomed
Bu-bye!

FlaxieB

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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. A two-fer!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
12. Wyldwolf's assessment of Edwards is a bit off. Hello Mr. Wolf??? Next debate is
Nov 15th.....plenty of time left for Edwards to make his moves.

The old tortoise and the hare fable is in play once again. Edwards just keeps on keeping on, he was very good last night. Warm and unflappable.
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Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. I too have been disappointed in Richardson who had been my
first choice for VP based on his experience. He just hasn't been very articulate in the debates and his answers have ranged from bland to boring. He still might get the VP nomination - for he has done nothing to irritate or alienate Hillary.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. My Dad is supporting Richardson in NH
but I don't really see why, Richardson is very bland. He does nothing for me. I think Hillary was bruised a little, but she still held her own. Edwards was pretty solidly on the mark, Obama came off as being unsure. Biden was good, but received little airtime as did Dodd and Kucinich.

I still haven't decided who I am supporting. :shrug:
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
15. Nice analysis
Biden: I thought he did a great job. Too bad he was not given more time. I think, personally, that he should be number two.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
16. I don't fault Kucinich for saying he saw a UFO, but saying it was a spiritual experience...
a lot of people on the left undercut their credibility with that New Age crap.

Is it fair that people can get away with making equally silly statements about majority religions?


No.

Nonetheless, you aren't going to get elected president if you are a wiccan, neo-pagan, or dressed up like Klingons for your wedding.

That really bothered me coming from Kucinich because he is so right on so many other issues.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
29. Kucinich is now the new congressman "Moonbeam" in this election...
... the way Jerry Brown was pushed that way in the past.

Yup the MSM is good at trying to push decent candidates aside with their tabloid style questions. It really sucks they do that.

I still believe that he's one of the most honest folks up on the stage up there, and whether I disagree here or there with him or not, that counts a lot for me.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
45. it was a dumbass question, and Obama handled it correctly
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
18. Neither infuriating, nor correct. EOM
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. you do crawl out every now and then, don't you?
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
58. I have a job and a family.
Not as much time as you to hang out here and posterbate about Clinton or whatever candidate is my flavorite.

Your evaluation remains neither infuriating nor correct.

Thanks for the characteristically meaningless response. I expect no less (nor more) from you.

Go lose another election.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
19. I'll go along with you on this part...
"On the other hand, Obama failed to live up to the hype he's created over the last week. He didn't go after her any more than he has in the past. This could still help Edwards if disappointed Obama supporters take another look at Edwards. Clinton, though, was expecting Obama to be more aggressive so she was much more aggressive in her responses the first half of the debate. After she realized he was just bobbing and weaving as usual, she was much more relaxed in her answers."
Obama just doesn't come off well in these things and seems a bit tired to me. His response on SS was really disappointing: has he not heard of the surplus that pre-paid for the boomers' retirement (assuming those IOUs are honored)?
I thought Hillary did pretty well; she was not interested in being trapped into undercutting Spitzer.
I thought Edwards did well, I liked Dodd's and Biden's responses, would have liked DK to have more time and Richardson has become a bit tiring.
Russert is an ass and a GOP tool.
"Julie"...nice touch.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
21. You forgot to add that nobody cares about the war votes...
:rofl:

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riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
22. Kucinich is still my guy
He is the candidate with whom I most often agree, and during the primary, that's the basis for my vote.

In the general, I'll vote for a Cheese Log if it's a Dem.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
24. I agree with your analysis mostly except for 2 things...
1.) Clinton is more like Mike Tyson than Ali

2.) You forget the part where Hillary's voice was utterly grating on one's nerves, you know the part between when the debate started and when it ended.

I'm going to agree taht Hill didn't "lose" the debate in that these things are not really debates but rather soundbite shows. I will also agree it didn't hurt her candidacy and she'll probably win the dem nod.

But in as much as I will grant the Hill folks that she's likely to win, you guys have to realize that her voice is like rough sandpaper on a lot of people's nerves. To me, she sounds like she's yelling half the time.

All in all, she's just not likeable to a lot of people. I'm sure a lot of people really like but I can't see why.

Personally I think she's running on 2 things: her gender and Nostalgia for the 90's when things were better. I don't think it really has as much to do with what she's done or said.

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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
25. Hillary got her ass kicked last night... sorry if you don't like the truth..
Stop the spin...it ain't workin'
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
26. Obama is now "Dead Man Walking"
Billed as a rock-em sock-em fighter, but in the ring all he could do was duck and weave
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
27. LOL
:crazy:
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. LOL
:crazy:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
31. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. When Obama has won the title of:"Dead Man Walking?"
Now that is a NON-Performance!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Deleted sub-thread
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
32. Hillary was awesome. The other candidates were like dogs compared to her.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Deleted message
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. yes, thank God.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
39. WW I love ya.
"500 fights. That’s the number I figured when I was a kid. 500 street fights and you could consider yourself a legitimate tough guy. You need them for experience...to develop leather skin, so I got started. Along the way you forget about being tough and all that, it stops being the point. You look past the silliness of it all but then you realize that’s what you are."

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
41. pretty fair
should not be infuriating to many.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. You're right. I thought the name-calling was very
professional.

:eyes:
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. sorry
I didn't think it was that harsh, you mean the description of Kucinich's appearance of course. Its amazing what one gets used to seeing around here though.
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
46. Keebler elves rule! Go Dennis.
Edited on Wed Oct-31-07 03:18 PM by zonkers
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avrdream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
47. Julie!!!!
That's a great one! Let's start using that one.

Thanks for the analysis for those of us on the other side of the world who didn't get to see it.
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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
50. k
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democrat2thecore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
52. She lost ANY CHANCE at my vote
Her parsing of words, her evasions, her secrecy with her records - it all reminds me too much of the current occupant of the WH. It's Obama, Edwards or Biden for me, and frankly, I am now leaning to Joe Biden.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
55. Wyldwolf, I have a hard time believing that Hillary's team didn't see the question coming
And if they didn't, somebody needs to be fired.

I didn't see the debate and so I'm not sure how Hillary worded the question. But coming out in favor of drivers' licenses for illegal immigrants isn't a losing issue for Democrats, IMO. Anybody who is concerned about the few moderates that will actually cast their vote based on this issue, isn't looking at the big picture and that is that Hispanics are the fastest growing population in the country.

If we play our cards correctly we can make the Republicans choose between their xenophobic base an the Hispanic vote, and in the end they will choose their base. Meanwhile their anti-immigrant xenophobia will cost them the fastest growing population in the country for decades.

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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
56. I normally don't agree with your post
But I think this is a pretty good summation of the debate
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
57. Vote Elf In 08! nt.
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