I'm so tired of people trashing DK over UFOs

[Chovexani]

This is not about whether or not UFOs are alien or whatever. This is about DK being set up, point blank, to look like an idiot and put out a soundbyte that the media can endlessly regurgitate like a bunch of fucking fifth grade bullies. The media doesn't take him seriously, he is their appointed "joke" candidate and apparently a good chunk of DU agrees, judging by the number of "woo woo" bashing posts and threads.

Well you know what? I would rather take the "woo-woo" candidate who believes in actually bringing this criminal administration to justice, ending this godforsaken war, holding corporations accountable and securing civil rights for everyone. I will take the "woo-woo" guy who believes no American should go without health care in the richest nation on the planet.

If that makes me "woo-woo" too, then dammit I'll wear it with a badge of pride.

[cboy4]

1. Why should you be surprised. After all, there are

DUers who are writing he can't win, in part, because he looks like an elf.

I've read two such posts today.

on edit...typo

[Chovexani]

4. And we're supposed to be the smart ones

Shameful.

[hisownpetard]

5. And what do these people have against elves,? Without them, no Keebler cookies, no Christmas toys -

unless you prefer yours with a little lead poisoning on the side. Eeeeek.

[gateley]

6. Totally disrespectful and totally irrelevant. nt

[hisownpetard]

2. What made me furious was how far into the "debate" they were before DK was even

given a nod. It was a ridiculous amount of time for him to be up there and be excluded
from all the questions. I felt embarassed by it.

When he finally was asked some questions, I loved every answer he gave. I was up out of my seat a couple times,
and you could hear a smattering of applause in the audience (although they weren't supposed to do that), as if
they just couldn't hold back). No one ever mentioned that, did they?

After last night, I have to seriously reconsider who 'my candidate' is. Good job, DK.

[Chovexani]

8. They can't actually attack his policy ideas

So they have to go for stupid cheap shots about UFOs.

[flpoljunkie]

3. I agree it was a setup to embarrass Kucinich, and they've all been piling on all day.

It was a cheap shot from compromised, corporate toadies.

[stellanoir]

7. "beam us up scotty"

pullease

[shraby]

9. I don't know why they should be trashing him

over UFOs. I've seen one myself...me and about 15 members of my family. It was hovering at apple tree level outside my parents house..about 50 feet away from the house. Stayed there for about 5-10 minutes with no noise then left going over the orchard and east.

[shenmue]

29. Yeah, just because you don't know what it was, means it was a spaceship.

:crazy:

:dunce:

Come on. Take some Risperdal.

I've seen things that I don't know what they were. I don't think they were aliens.

Here's a question you UFO people never seem to answer: what do they eat on board those spaceships?

If there are aliens out there, who are coming to us from the massive distances between us and the nearest planets that may have the capability to support life, what are the pilots eating? What do they use for fuel? Do they just keep reproducing and breeding new crew members to replace the ones who die on the flight, or is this like the story of Methuselah where they live for hundreds of years?

I forget who wrote it, but there was a story about people who believe in UFOs, and how it synchs up remarkably with the old beliefs from formerly popular religions. They didn't discover anything. They just switched the things they believe in.

The argument from ignorance is a fallacy, not a proof. You saw "something." So what?

[Chovexani]

31. Are you against the war?

Do you believe in civil rights for everyone and not just white hetero fundies?

[druidity33]

35. duh

who said anything about aliens?

U= Unidentified
F= Flying
O= Object

That's really not so hard to comprehend is it?

I also have seen a "UFO" and you're not going to be hearing me talk about aliens... because guess what, i didn't meet any. I saw something up in the sky (with a few other people present... including a retired pilot) that none of us could explain away.



You're the one talking about aliens here, not the OP...

[Prophet 451]

54. He didn't say "spaceship", he said UFO

I see UFOs all the time. UFO just means something in the sky that can't be readily identified. You assumed he meant spaceship so you're the one guilty of a logical fallacy, the straw man in this case.

[Trajan]

62. In that post: There is not ONE WORD that claims ''Aliens" were involved .....

I am guessing you wanted to invent that Strawman so you could smack it down for your own diversion ....

Then you go though that entire spiel about the difficult logistics involved, even though the poster
did NOT claim the 'UFO' was 'Alien' .... YOU claimed he did .....

The fallacy is Strawman ... and the fallacy is yours ...

[shraby]

64. I didn't say it was a spaceship. I said it was

a ufo. I have no idea what it was, it was dark outside and it hung in the air by the apple trees for some time. We all stood at the patio door and looked at it using binoculars. I didn't make a noise like a helicopter, there was no noise, or we would have thought that might be what it was. My parent's home was way out in the boonies with the nearest neighbor a mile away. The kids were outside playing and brought it to our attention. The adults present were inside visiting. I'm making no claims as to what it was, only that we didn't know what could hang in the air in a stationary positions for a long time and make no noise. I didn't mention before, but there were interior lights in the ufo but we couldn't seen anything beyond the fact that there were lights inside..none outside of it.

edited to add

[Generic Brad]

71. Unidentified does not mean alien

About a month ago my wife and I saw a triangular craft hovering at the level of our window (we live in a high rise) two blocks away from our house. We could not see a means of propulsion and watched in amazement as the craft hovered in place for around 30 seconds and then slowly drifted away from our view.

Like Kucinich, we would describe the craft as unidentified because we had never seen anything like it before. And also like Kucinich, we would not attribute the sighting to mean it was manufactured and driven by space aliens. Unidentified means unidentified and nothing more.

[eridani]

74. Did shraby actually say anything about aliens?

I totally missed it. Seems to me s/he said that s/he and family members saw something flying that didn't look like anything they's ever seen flying before. Can we stick to logic, please?

[LWolf]

10. I'll wear that badge with you. n/t

[MuseRider]

11. Been a woo woo

since the day I was born and proudly a woo woo.

[msongs]

12. bringing up ufo's re kucinich are a form of castration nt

[Jersey Devil]

13. Well, I am voting for Dennis because he's an alien

Klatu, barada, nikto!

[porkrind]

76. K&R for "Army of Darkness" reference!

:)

[Basileus Basileon]

14. He really didn't do himself any favors there.

Barack Obama showed how to properly answer that question immediately afterwards: it doesn't matter, because there are real problems here on Earth to talk about.

[Chovexani]

17. Whether he did or didn't is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that Kucinich was asked that question and not, say, Obama.

And it was about the only question he was asked.

[Basileus Basileon]

19. It may have been a cheap shot, but this is national politics.

This is a run for the Presidency. If you can't handle being asked "did you really say that?" about an attention-grabbing story that was in the papers in the last few cycles, you have no business coming within 100 yards of a Presidential campaign.

All of this "OMG THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE ASKED HIM" is whining. Koocy said it. He should deal with it. And Obama, asked about life on other planets, showed how DK could have hit that one out of the park if he were on his game.

[Chovexani]

21. If you really think this was about "an attention grabbing story", I don't know what to tell you

It's not whining to question why this, out of all the "attention grabbing stories" was chosen--after he was summarily ignored for the first half of the debate. Why wasn't he asked about impeachment? That's an "attention grabbing story" that's been in the papers for a while. That's something of substance. Oh, I know, it's because people don't actually have anything to say about his positions on issues of substance.

He was invited to the debate so the media would have someone to laugh at, so the left could be discredited and written off as a bunch of woo-woo lunatics. They were looking for a kooky soundbite. This entire process is high school, and if you think questioning that is "whining", I guess I'll just have to keep on whining.

[Basileus Basileon]

25. Well, Kucinich brought up impeachment multiple times.

He spun virtually everything asked into impeachment. And besides--why the hell would you ask a Presidential candidate about impeachment? Think about it--this is about the next term. You think that, in our limited time, we should be asking the candidates about something that will be entirely moot the second they assume office? Rrrrr...no.

This would be about the only attention-grabbing story re:Kucinich I've seen recently. Again, it's a Presidential race. Everything is fair game. Your guy wants to see UFOs and talk about how they beamed directions into his mind? Then he shouldn't be afraid to be asked about it. Any candidate would be asked about it if they said something like that. Tweety even asked Richardson what he believed in the post-debate interview--and then laughed in his face when Richardson implied there was a cover-up at Roswell. And Richardson is the furthest-right candidate in the field.

Kucinich didn't get much time because he's extremely unpopular. NBC wants to focus the time on the candidates who people are interested in--the real crime, IMO, is how little time Biden got; despite having arguably the best performance of the night, he only got six minutes. But given his standing, again, I don't really blame them. It isn't NBC's job to campaign on behalf of unpopular candidates.

[penguin7]

52. They cut Kucinich off in his answer

Why did that happen?

I rewatched the video and he was helping himself and they cut him off.

The media can go to hell.

[Basileus Basileon]

55. Well, not really.

He said something factually incorrect--that more people have seen a UFO than support Bush--and Russert corrected him. Kucinich got him to repeat that figure (14%, which would imply 42,000,000 Americans have seen one) repeatedly and then smiled in triumph. A nice moment, but Barack one-upped him right after.

[Mike Nelson]

15. I agree he was set up to look like an idiot

by Russert and the other swine

[Cha]

16. Don't pay any attention..I've

never seen a UFO but I don't discount that others have..and what's a UFO, anyway? Something new the military has cooked up?..or from a foreign galaxy? Pretty cool that Dennis isn't refusing to answer on the grounds it may incriminate him.

[Chovexani]

18. He is honest and sincere

He actually answers questions posed to him. That's the kind of guy he is.

This whole thing is so depressing. It feels like we're electing Homecoming Queen instead of President.

[Cha]

24. Or a war

machine.

[MissWaverly]

33. I agree, the Kecksberg UFO incident

I believe was a military errant missile which crashed. Who knows what advanced military hardware we have and where it is tested,
we spent 50 billion on just surveillance last year, that's a lot of high tech gadgets.

[2rth2pwr]

20. Is that your picture? nt

[Chovexani]

22. Are you five?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homey_D._Clown

[2rth2pwr]

28. No, it just made me laugh seeing a call for seriousness

coming from Homey The Clown.

[Chovexani]

30. I'm a jester 90% of the time

But on alternate Wednesdays I get serious.

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. Agrred. Instead, he should be ridiculed for his bill to ban mind control devices in outer space:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2001/hr2977.html

[Basileus Basileon]

26. Hey, that UFO beamed directions into his mind.

Obviously space-mind-beaming is a concern of his.

[Chovexani]

27. A great bill with some silly details in it

I'm not denying that some of the specifics DK gets into are batshit (the good Congressman and I will have to agree to disagree on chemtrails :crazy:). But I can get behind the basic idea of this bill, which is to prevent the militarization of space. Maybe it's just the Trekkie in me, but I'd rather our space program be used for peaceful, scientific exploration to further humanity and not to find faster and more efficient ways to kill each other.

Why do we spend billions on crazy shit while people go without health care, and don't have enough to eat?

[Basileus Basileon]

32. I would think part of the problem is

that the few good people who are willing to stand up for humanity and against militarization also have to make everyone think they're nuts when they go on about mind control and chemtrails and UFOs in the next breath. It's too bad. Ninety-six percent of what Kucinich says is brilliant. Four percent is so cringeworthy it makes him look imbalanced.

[Chovexani]

34. Yeah, I wish he wouldn't go on about some of that stuff

At the same time I think it's telling that people are so fixated on that 4%.

Considering the other candidate's negatives (being bought and paid for by corporations, supporting the separate-but-equal system for GLBT, etc)? I'd still take the batshit.

[Freddie Stubbs]

70. That reminds me of some dialouge from the Simpsons:

Bart: You mean up until now you did care? Then why did you wear that tutu to school last week?

Milhouse: What about all the times I didn't wear a tutu? Nobody ever brings those up.

[Shallah Kali]

42. Bush talks 96% insane and 4% sane but DK is the nutter?

Ditto with the various candidates who want to keep America in a lost cause and bleed us further dry. don't stand up against torture, don't stand up against wiretapping, don't stand up for affordable health care, and so on.

I would much rather deal with people who might be 4% nuts in a harmless way than seemingly sane individuals beholden to corporations and give lip service to human rights.

[Chovexani]

46. I agree with one exception

I think Bush is 100% insane.

[Shallah Kali]

49. Agreed, which is why I said talks sane 4%

At the risk of sounded reaaaaaaaaaaly woowoo bush, cheney and their cohort sometimes make me wonder if that guy who says they are really reptilioniods might be on to something. Or maybe it just hurts too much to think that such as they truly are members of the human race.

[Chovexani]

50. lol

I think Cheney's a robot. :tinfoilhat:

[slipslidingaway]

36. K&R, also good post debate interview here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x66290

[Didereaux]

37. AUFO watcher calls for impeachment...boy THAT helps the imeach cause! ;(

[illinoisprogressive]

38. I have not trashed him. I respect his opinion and I thought he was set up.

Highly intelligent people are always misunderstood.

[NotGivingUp]

39. If people are too STUPID to see through this woo-woo bullshit

against Kucinich, then THEY deserve the worst. STOP being so frigging stupid people. We were all born with a brain...USE IT!!!

[tritsofme]

40. But he is the joke candidate.

He has no serious campaign apparatus in the early primary states, he has no money, and he has statistically insignificant support among primary voters.

The media is simply describing reality in this case.

[Chovexani]

44. Then why was he invited to the debate?

I'm not being facetious, either.

This entire process so goddamn high school--from the obsession over trivial bullshit like haircuts to endless handwringing over birthday parties and what people wear.

This process is a fucking joke. No wonder Colbert's polling so high.

[Milo_Bloom]

41. Remember, as education goes up, so does belief in "woo woo". (nt)

[sjdnb]

43. These are the same people who profess to believe that ....

somewhere out there is a floating deity with human-like creatures with wings surrounding him who blinked, like a genie, and created the world in seven days and then made some dude, pulled out his rib and made a chick. People lived for hundreds of years, and slavery was okee-dokee ... below some of the insanity:

DIE
Leviticus 20.9 - anyone who curses their parents should be put to DEATH

SHUTUP
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression (1 Timothy 2:11-14).

JEWELRY A SIn
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array (1 Timothy 2:9)

SLAVERY
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

SLAVERY PLUS
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11)

BEATING PEOPLE TO DEATH OK - AS LONG AS THEY ARE SLAVES
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)

SWEAR and DIE
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death. (Lev 24:16)

WORK SUNDAYS and DIE
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (Exo 31:15)

HAVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE and DIE
But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of the city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; so you shall purge this evil from Israel. (Deuteronomy 22:21-24)

There is nothing more ridiculous than religion, yet people ridicule someone for believing in something that is entirely more plausible? No wonder the world is so F'd up.

[Chovexani]

45. And, like clockwork, this thread degenerates into yet another UFO debate

I give up.

[maximusveritas]

47. It was Russert's attempt at marginalizing Kucinich and it succeeded

I do feel bad for Kucinich, but it was bound to happen eventually. His only option was to deflect the question and turn to the more important things you mentioned. Unfortunately, he was too stunned by the stupidity of the question to do that.

[doc03]

48. Simple that's what the MSM was instructed to do

in retaliation for DK saying * was nuts. The old Repug ridicule the democrat trick example: "Gore invented the Internet" "I voted for it before I voted against it"

[ginchinchili]

51. I agree. Dispite Russert's 14% who claim they're seen a UFO...

a more significant number would be the percentage of those who believe in UFOs, because then it begs the question to those who don't believe in UFO, how can one possibly believe that Earth contains the only "intelligent" life out of billions and billions of planets? Then it's the nonbelievers who look silly. I respect his courage and honesty.

[Basileus Basileon]

53. I don't believe in UFOs, for one.

And I recognize that there is undoubtedly intelligent life on other planets. Space is enormous. It is larger than enormous. There are not adjectives that adequately express the distance from here to Alpha Centauri, to say nothing of most stars, to say nothing of our galaxy, to say nothing of between galaxies, to say nothing of between clusters.

And life is a very tricky thing to get--and intelligent life, far more so. Intelligent life has only evolved once on Earth, despite several extinction events allowing it to start over and try again. And among intelligent life, complex society has only evolved once. While intelligent life certainly exists out there, it very well may not exist within all the stars you see at night. The odds life manages to float over here? Not so great, I'd say. The odds that it undergoes an odyssey of unimaginable length and complexity simply to show up, prod a bubba in the ass, and zip away? Significantly worse.

[Prophet 451]

57. Also,

Given that UFO just means something in the sky which can't be readily identified, one has to be a complete fucking idiot not to believe in them.

[Basileus Basileon]

59. That's rather disingenuous.

When asking "do you believe in UFOs," nobody has any reason to believe they are asking, "Do you believe that there has ever been an object in the sky that an observer has been unable to identify?"

Unless you're one of those people who responds to "what's up?" by glancing up, and then saying "ceiling."

[Prophet 451]

61. I am, actually

And it's not disingenuous (I don't think, I'm not entirely sure what that means). When someone asks if you believe in UFOs, they are phrasing the question in such a way as to imply one is "unserious" if one answers in the affirmative. It's a "gotcha" question so the asker deserves to get a "stop being a prat" answer.

[Basileus Basileon]

63. Well, I mean,

when you ask that question, neither you or the asker have any reason to believe you're asking if anyone has ever seen something in the sky and not been able to identify it. Looking out the window, I saw a little triangle of lights go by. UFO. Since Midway airport is a few miles from me, it was probably a 737 or something, but I don't really know. But obviously that isn't what anyone's really asking when they ask you if you've seen a UFO.

They're more asking, "Do you believe in / have you seen evidence of extraterrestrial constructs visiting Earth?" That's the common meaning of the initialism UFO, after all.

[Prophet 451]

65. But not the ACTUAL meaning

If they mean "do you believe in aliens", let them ask that (since it's obviously a "gotcha" question). Yes, that was a UFO you saw, I see them all the time (I live near to Manchester Airport).

Call me a pedant if you like, you wouldn't be the first.

[Basileus Basileon]

66. Call you? No calling involved

You clearly are-- not that it's a bad thing ;)

[mmonk]

56. Many are willing to follow Russert's lead. Too bad as Kucinich is a decent

person with a great agenda and positions. Too damn decent for many IMO.

[mtnsnake]

58. I'm tired of those assholes mocking him, too. Who hasn't seen weird things in the sky?

Jesus H Crhist they make out like he's a kook or something just because he saw something in the sky that was unidentifiable. Dennis Kucinich is the real deal and epitomizes the way Democrats SHOULD be, so they like to single him out, especially because they perceive him to be smaller than them.

Who the hell does some bizarre acting fuck like Chris Matthews think he is to be poking fun at ANYONE? He needs to take a look in the mirror.

[CyberPieHole]

60. Despicable set up...Kucinich got screwed...

Fauxnews has been bashing him with this...it makes me sick.:grr:

[Hippo_Tron]

67. If DK doesn't know how to deflect this question he's not ready for prime time

He should've said "I'm not going to dignify this dribble with a response. Lets stick to the issues."

[govegan]

68. Someone sees a UFO: no harm, no foul

Hill & Bill see WMD's, Edwards sees WMD's, Mr. Potato Head sees WMD's.

The chimpinator, vp cheney, rice, powell, libby, rumsfeld; faux news, murderer murdock, say what? They see WMD's.

So at the very least hundreds of thousands die terrible, bloody deaths.

Millions are displaced, many languishing in miserable and hopeless poverty.

If Kucinich said he saw WMD's in the sky and the UFO was made in Iran, the neo-fascist cheerleaders would be jumping up and down with glee.

Certain candidates would be drooling at the thought of those defense industry and monopoly dollars fattening up their most pleasurable estates, a future of wealth and pleasure without any serious responsibility. That is just the way they are. They seem to have no genuine association with reality.

The neo-fascist oligarchs will always trivialize human life and try to ridicule the humanity of decent and honest folks. That is just the way they are.

Some day the birds will come home to roost, even if it has to be the natural forces of the planet.

:woohoo: :woohoo:

[slipslidingaway]

69. K&R great post !!! n/t

[Chovexani]

73. I wish we could rec posts within a thread

:yourock:

[superkia]

72. Why dont more people wonder why he has been ignored and...

belittled by the MSM? If he was so unelectable and the people of our country wouldn't elect him, why have they hidden him away the whole time and now only show him when they try to discredit him? You would think more people would recognize that the MSM has an agenda that doesn't reflect what the people need and want and that the ones they completely ignore are probably the ones that are best for us, not them and the ones they pimp out are probably the worst for us. I understand the lazy Americans that just don't care and only look at what the boob tube offers but I don't understand the people that are educated on politics, like some here on DU that choose to treat him like the MSM does. Has America really been dumbed down that much that even when people see the facts, they go against what is best for themselves and follow the MSM?

[porkrind]

75. This was a deliberate attempt to ruin Kucinich

Tim Russert is a long-time right-wing lackey. Reminds me of the whole stupid Howard Dean "scream" thing. They simply lay a cheap trap and create a "jump-the-shark" moment for the candidate, and then echo it through the GOP Wurlitzer forever. It's so cheap and stupid, it's amazing that it works. It doesn't speak very highly of Joe Average Citizen, does it? What next? A Photograph of Kucinich blinking and then claiming he was asleep at the debates? Sheesh.

Any candidate from outside the corporate-military-congressional complex is a foreign body that must be attacked by media antibodies. The establishment and their corporate media propaganda outlets only allow their own bought-and-paid-for candidates to be presented to the American public to be "voted" on. If you don't join the CFR on bended knee, you're not in the "Big Club" as George Carlin puts it.

[Basileus Basileon]

77. Why bother ruining a candidate who's having difficulty breaking 5%?

I would think if there were a vast right-wing conspiracy controlling the debates, they would have chosen to take down Obama or Edwards.

[porkrind]

79. No, that's the point.

They want you to think you have choice, but they control all the choices. It's like you can choose any drink as long as it's a cola, so what do you want, Pepsi, or Coke? Of course Orange Juice is not being offered, so that's out. Only corporatist candidates will be allowed by the establishment to be frontrunners and real populist candidates will be scorned and rejected at every turn. That way, by the end of the game, the voters can choose among approved candidates. So Kucinich and Howard Dean must be marginalized before they get to far, since they are not controllable by the establishment.

[HardWorkingDem]

78. I'm with you...

What really pisses me off is that Kucinich says the stuff that many of these pols want to say but lack the spine to do so.

And really, WHO hasn't seen something in this wonderful world that hasn't been explainable?

[Progressive Friend]

80. K&R

[Vidar]

81. Last candidate who saw UFOs was Jimmy Carter, the finest man to ever

occupy the oval office. Nanu, Nanu! Live long & prosper. Off I go to vote for Dennis.