Joe Biden, the underdog grown-up

[fencesitter]

Some good Joe observations from Dick Polman:

http://dickpolman.blogspot.com/2007/11/joe-biden-underdog-grown-up.html

I was thinking this morning about Joe Biden, and about how - in two important respects - he was arguably the real winner of the latest Democratic presidential debate.

That's actually no surprise, because, in many debates over many months, while his better-financed celebrity rivals have dominated the news coverage, he has often come across as the real grown-up on stage. He shouts too much sometimes, and sometimes his natural loquacity compels him to spew too many sentence fragments, but, just as often, the venerable senator has refused to pander, instead offering straight talk on politically sensitive topics.

More than anyone on stage, he has thought hard about the Iraq that we would leave behind. His longstanding plan - to establish a federal, decentralized Iraq, with separate enclaves for the warring sectarian factions - is probably imperfect (what plan is?), but he, at least, has been willing to think conceptually and pitch the idea to Democratic debate audiences. Meanwhile, 75 senators voted on Sept. 26 to approve the Biden plan in principle; the bipartisan resolution was non-binding, but it marked the first time that the chamber had decisively bucked the Bush administration's war strategy.

Biden has talked straight on other issues. In a September debate, he was asked whether, in order to guarantee the long-term solvency of Social Security, he'd be willing to essentially raise taxes. Currently, the tax we pay for Social Security is capped on the first $97,500 worth of income; some other Democrats, notably Hillary Clinton, have been reluctant to raise the cap, for fear that the Republicans will assail them as tax-hikers. At that September debate, Hillary said she'd study the issue by setting up a bipartisan commission, a classic Washington dodge. But would Biden be willing to raise the cap - and basically tax not only the rich, but the middle class?

"The answer is yes...You're either going to cut the benefits, or you're going to go ahead and raise taxes above the first $97,000...The bottom line here is, you can't (achieve Social Security solvency) by growing the economy alone. So I would raise the cap."
******
whole lot more...

[Frances]

1. It's because of articles like this

that I have waited to decide who to vote for in the primary.

Now there is still time for people to point out Biden's flaws.

A long primary season is a good thing.

It allows me to see the pros and cons of all the candidates.

[demommom]

5. ???

[PatSeg]

19. Biden has been around for decades

Any "flaws" have been seen the light of day many times.

I agree that a long primary has been useful at a time when more people are focused on politics and want to make an informed decision.

[Jade Fox]

2. Yes, grown-up.....

Experience in a candidate is starting to look real good to me, even if I don't love everything Biden and Dodd have done.

Clinton, Obama, and Edwards may be charismatic, but do any of them really have the experience to be President? All of them are suffering from overexposure, and are starting to look a little like squabbling brats.

[napi21]

3. Although I'm VERY worried about this disaster in Pakistan, I'm VERY

HAPPY to see so many posts this morning speaking positively about Joe! It's truely FRIGHTENING that it was only 4 days ago that Joe was the ONLY candidate, from either party, speaking about the REAL WORRY being Pakistan! Yestarday there was a post about Joe speaking in the Senate in early Sept. 2001 about his STRONG FEAR of an impending terrorist attack on the US. If I remember, it was only days before 9/11!

If there can be anything positive result from this Pakistan disaster, I hope it's that many more voters recognize how much better a candidate Joe really is compared to what the polls show!

[CrispyQ]

6. Here's a link to the thread you reference:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3679178

[Frustratedlady]

11. Thank you for the link.

I was not aware of that. Eerie, to say the least. Imagine where we'd be now if Biden had been sitting in the Oval Office with his knowledge, compared to The Brat.

Very interesting. Unless something happens, I think Biden is my choice in the Iowa caucus.

[ginchinchili]

13. I read the post. Biden was speaking on Sept. 10, 2001

The poster was getting ready for his sister's funeral while listen to, I believe it was, CNN. Biden was warning us about the threat of a terrorist attack that no one seemed to be doing anything about. If we'd nominate Joe Biden, we'd finally have someone in the WH who will act, and act judiciously.

[NI4NI]

15. If my memory serves me correctly, it was 9/10/01

Joe talked about international terrorism the day before we were attacked.

[Faryn Balyncd]

4. And he is a grown-up that will both energize OUR base (rather than the GOP's) & WIN the independents

[conservdem]

25. Agreed. I am as of today supporting him.

[gateley]

7. Politics and campaign aside, I hope the administration calls Biden into service to

bring his expertise to this alarming turn of events. We need someone with his understanding of the region to guide us during this time.

It's almost spooky how he informed us of this situation on Tuesday -- we NEED this man as our President for these times.

[ginchinchili]

14. Don't count on it. A prerequisite is to sware allegiance to Bush

and Biden would never do that.

[The Count]

22. I wasn't gonna, but that's my cue:

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050116...
.......Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Richard Lugar opened
Tuesday's hearing with warm words about Rice, who has served a mostly
behind-the-scenes role at the White House for the past four years. He
called her "highly qualified'' for the post.
Biden also praised Rice, but noted that "relations with many of our
oldest friends are quite frankly scraping the bottom right now.''
However, Biden also had blunt advice for European critics: "I have one
simple message: Get over it. Get over it. President Bush is our
president for the next four years. So get over it and start to act in
your interest, Europe.''..........

[Froward69]

8. Just one thing

"sometimes his natural loquacity compels him to spew too many sentence fragments," uhhh b-b-ecause he is a former stutterer. thats forgivable. as unlike previous generations we realize that impediment is not a sign of stupidity. overcoming such a problem would be insurmountable to others. otherwise I think your thoughts are admirable.

[rucky]

9. I didn't know that. n/t

[jillan]

10. rucky - now that you are an official Biden supporter, you really should read his book.

Its quick reading and really gives you alot of insight into who this man really is.

[Think82]

12. Kick

[DutchLiberal]

16. My problem with Biden is exactly his plan for Iraq.

If I am correct, it comes down to the US yet again deciding what's good for another country. Separating the parties (Sji'ais -no I can't spell that right-, Sunnis and Kurds), and then separating the country? Who's deciding? The US. I think that would inflame even more terrorism. Let them work it out for themselves.

[ginchinchili]

17. This concept is based on the Constitution that they devised.

Biden's plan emphasizes the decision making process be left up to the Iraqis, but it's both a.)in their constitution and b.)what they're already doing. It's not about the US carving out 3 areas for Shiites, Kurds and Sunnis, as much of the press has reported. It's focus is to allow them semi-autonomous areas, decided by Iraqis, and a weaker centralized government with a limited role. It's actually the way that better allows Iraqis to decide for themselves how they'd like to be governed. It's the closest thing to a workable plan. It always has to be kept in mind, however, that Bush has placed Iraq and the United States in a no-win situation. Biden's plan will probably be disastrous, but less disastrous than any other plan, and there's only one other plan and that is Bush's. I curse Bush's name for doing this to us and Iraq. He's a fool, and millions will pay a very high price for his stupidity and he'll live out the rest of his life like a king. It makes my blood boil.

[DutchLiberal]

21. Thanks

:hi:

[PatSeg]

18. No, that isn't exactly what he is proposing

He is suggesting that we support a federalist government in Iraq as is called for in their constitution. It would entail a weaker central government, like in the Balkans and like we had in the beginning, and would give more control to the local governments such as local police, schools, laws, etc. The federal government would have a military and would disperse oil revenues.

The plan would give the individual sects more breathing room and more control over their daily lives. Federalism promotes more "states rights" so that one group cannot dominate another. The current centralized government is not working (obviously).

Senator Biden is not saying we should "impose" our ideas on Iraq, but being the U.S. has made such a mess of their country, we need to help them to restore some order and sanity. We need to leave in an orderly and responsible way.

[DutchLiberal]

20. Thank you for your explanation.

[PatSeg]

23. Your Welcome

Following Joe Biden has been a real education for me and I'm still learning.

[DutchLiberal]

24. I don't know too much about Biden, but he did vote FOR the Iraq war, right?

How do you judge that? What has he said about his vote? Did he ever apologize for it, like Edwards?