John Kerry and Israel?

[dennis4868]

Anyone know what Kerry's record is with regards to Israel and the middle east (besides voting for the Iraq war)?

[corporatewhore]

1. he thinks bush's roadmap is a good idea

which is a "very generous" offer to the palestinians
The "Road Map" to the Palestinians that Bush envisions:

* your refugees give up their right of return to their ancestral homes, and
* you agree to only elect officials acceptable to Bush and Sharon, and
* you agree to lock up all your resistance fighters, and
* you agree to drive your cars only on roads that Sharon assigns for your use, and
* you do not object to the 'wall' that Sharon is building, and
* you agree not to claim Jerusalem as your capital, and
* you agree that your children's school curriculum only includes courses and books approved by the Israeli government, and
* you agree not to give birth to more than three children per family,
then Sharon might consider negotiating with you on the 42% of 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which was originally yours.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. A disingenuous mischaracterization.

[corporatewhore]

9. check out johnkerry.com he says he thinks bushs roadmap is good

John Kerry sees the Bush Administration's road map - albeit long overdue - as an acceptable approach for reinvigorating the peace process
http://johnkerry.com/issues/foreignpolicy/

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. I'm sure that what is on Kerry's website is his position

and your characterization of it in post number 1 is absolutely false.

[MikeGalos]

23. Obviously you've never actually read the proposal

Since you don't appear to know its contents but nice job of making them up.


The "Roadmap", btw, didn't come from Bush - he just slapped his name on it to get credit for work he didn't do. What a shock.

[revcarol]

2. Look up AIPAC.

That will tell you more than you want to know about Kerry's positions.

[dennis4868]

3. Thanks....

The Dems have owned the jewish vote in presidential elections for the longest time and I am worried that may change because of Bush and PNAC!

[revcarol]

7. I guess you didn't see post 1.

Thank God not all Jews in the United States are in line with AIPAC.

[dennis4868]

10. Nope....

and it puts a bad face on the jewish people to have criminals like Perle and wolfowitz and Zackheim in this administration....they all have blood on their hands!

[dennis4868]

13. Not even close....

I have many jewish friends and I do not know one that is in line with PNAC!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. Actually, that was false and misleading information you were given

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. Why don't you look up AIPAC...he's never taken a dime from them

[_Jumper_]

34. Just curious

When is the last time a president defied AIPAC?

[IndianaGreen]

39. AIPAC helped sell the war on Iraq--they must be held accountable!

For Israel Lobby Group, War Is Topic A, Quietly
At Meeting, Jerusalem's Contributions Are Highlighted
By Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, April 1, 2003; Page A25

This week's meeting in Washington of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee has put a spotlight on the Bush administration's delicate dance with Israel and the Jewish state's friends over the attack on Iraq.

<snip>

A parade of top Bush administration officials -- Powell, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, political director Kenneth Mehlman, Undersecretary of State John R. Bolton and Assistant Secretary of State William Burns -- appeared before the AIPAC audience. The officials won sustained cheers for their jabs at European opponents of war in Iraq, and their tough remarks aimed at two perennial foes of Israel, Syria and Iran.

The AIPAC meeting -- attended by about 5,000 people, including half the Senate and a third of the House -- was planned long before it became clear it would coincide with hostilities in Iraq. And organizers tried to play down the emphasis on Iraq, dedicating only one of its 12 "forums" during the conference to the war. "This is not about Iraq," said AIPAC spokesman Josh Block. "This is about going to Congress and lobbying for the Israeli aid package."

<snip>

"God willing, we're going to have a great victory in Iraq," said AIPAC's Steve Rosen, the moderator.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A63578-2003Mar31

[sangh0]

41. Hypocrisy Alert: Dean supports AIPAC

but his supporters didn't seem to mind it until now.

[IndianaGreen]

43. Dean supports a Palestinian state and removing the settlements

AIPAC supports the status quo.

[Forkboy]

47. As a mental exercise

try defending someone just once without using the word "Dean". Because I dont give a rat's about him and it really doesn't help Kerry if this is all you can do in his defense.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. I'm not sure where you could find a compilation of

votes limited to that specific topic, but here is his voting record: www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=S0421103

You might also be interested in this Foreign Policy Speech at Georgetown University

[anti-NAFTA]

6. Virtually all politicians are the same.

AIPAC is so well-financed compared to any Palestinian version of it that there's no variation between any politicians on the issue. I'm not pro-Palestinian, but Israel will never have peace until America becomes a more credible peace broker.

[revcarol]

11. Go to Kucinich's site...

His position is significantly different than the position of the others.

With the others, the U. S. cannot be credible a broker of peace. With Kucinich, the odds are up.

www.kucinich.us
sorry, gotta go lie down.

[_Jumper_]

35. I agree 100%

It isn't about "democracy" or "values". It is pure politics.

[DuctapeFatwa]

12. He signed a letter reprimanding bush for asking sharon to show "restraint"

after the first couple of times sharon deployed his US taxpayer supplied gunships into residential areas.

Kerry, and in fact, most of congress, doesn't think bush supports sharon enough, and Gary Bauer's position on US policy on Israel is pretty much the norm.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. n/t

My bad, I misread.

[redqueen]

25. Tweedledee '04!

:eyes:

[Scott Lee]

37. no, HAM SANDWICH needs your support!

Remember - Ham to change America!

[IndianaGreen]

40. Ham is not kosher!

No thanks!

[seaglass]

15. Here is his I/P policy position...

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/foreignpolicy/

the paragraph breaks are mine.

snip...

From his many trips to the region, John Kerry knows that a majority of Israelis and Palestinians want peace and that Israelis expect there will be a Palestinian state. Energetic American leadership is essential to helping them achieve that peace because the United States is the one country with the ability to work with all the parties to facilitate a necessary and meaningful dialogue. John Kerry sees the Bush Administration's road map - albeit long overdue - as an acceptable approach for reinvigorating the peace process. But it will only be viable if U.S. engagement in this process is active, constant, and at the highest levels.

The United States cannot walk away or lessen its commitment to this process when violence erupts and the going gets rough. Failure to remain actively engaged will lead to further difficulties down the road and set the prospects for peace farther back. John Kerry believes we must work actively to encourage an end to the violence and to help the parties take the steps outlined by the road map - which both Israelis and Palestinians find difficult. And we must be realistic about what they can and cannot accomplish.

While no country can dictate the terms of peace, those opposed to peace can destroy its prospects. Israelis and Palestinians committed to peace cannot let that happen yet again. Progress toward peace cannot be made against a backdrop of terrorism and violence; they are not legitimate tools to achieve political goals.

Prime Minister Qureia must take serious, demonstrable steps to stop the bombings against Israelis and to rein in militant Palestinian groups bent on destroying the peace process. In Kerry’s view, it is critical that our European and Arab allies support this effort aggressively. If Prime Minister Qureia is committed to this course of action, the United States and its allies should provide technical assistance and training to the Palestinian security forces to strengthen their capacity to root out terrorist groups.

The United States must also work with both Israelis and Palestinians to create acceptable and verifiable security benchmarks that the Palestinian Authority can reasonably achieve. While Israel must never give up its right to protect its citizens, the Israeli government must be prepared to respond with steps to alleviate hardships on the Palestinian people. The United States must work with Israel to identify and implement these confidence building measures.

As meaningful steps are taken to fight terrorism, Prime Minister Sharon and Prime Minister Qureia must move forward simultaneously with determination, perseverance, and demonstrated commitment on the road to peace. The United States must support their efforts - keep them focused on the end game of two states; Israel and Palestine, living side by aside in peace and security - and help them take the necessary steps to build enough confidence and trust in each other to get there. Kerry believes that a challenge of this magnitude and importance can only be met by successful and engaged Presidential

[DaisyUCSB]

17. I'm pretty sure he doesn't think it should be destroyed

which puts him at odds with the anti-semitic mainstream of Muslim governments

[_Jumper_]

32. Nice job inserting a Muslim smear into the thread

:eyes:

[Sean Reynolds]

18. Well we know he doesn't agree with Dean on 'even-handed' talks.

Because he, with Lieberman, attacked Dean back in September when he said that,

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. But he does agree the Democratic Party's Platform

Our special relationship with Israel is based on the unshakable foundation of shared values and a mutual commitment to democracy, and we will ensure that under all circumstances, Israel retains the qualitative military edge for its national security. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and should remain an undivided city accessible to people of all faiths.

http://www.democrats.org/about/2000platform.html#peace

[IndianaGreen]

22. The Democratic platform ignores the plight of the Palestinians

and is nothing but an endless apologia of Israel's occupation.

[JohnLocke]

44. Hmm...

:nopity: :nopity:
:nopity: :nopity:
:nopity: :nopity:
:nopity: :nopity:
:nopity: :nopity:

[Freddie Stubbs]

46. Perhaps if the Palestinians would end the terrorism

people in this country would have some more sympathy to their plight.

[_Jumper_]

33. Shared values and democracy?

Come on. Our support of Israel is purely political. Why do you think no other Western nation is pro-Israel?

[Freddie Stubbs]

48. Perhaps because its the right thing to do

Both Republican and Democratic administrations have back Israel.

[Scott Lee]

36. Heaven forfend that we are even-handed in the M.E.

That would be positively awfull. I mean, my Gods, the Arabs might end up liking us!

[_Jumper_]

38. Yeah and maybe, just maybe, that would reduce terrorism against us

I believe that we need to ensure that Israel survives and has a military advantage sufficient to defend itself against its larger neighbors and allow it to dismantle terrorist groups, but overall we should be an honest broker. The reality is that blank check support for Israel is a major reason we are in peril today. Is AIPAC worth another 9/11?

[Leilani]

42. They said on C-Span this AM

according to our gov't, Israel now has 82 nuclear bombs.

Why we perpetuate the myth that Israel must be protected, is nothing but politics.

And why we supply billions of $$$ to Israel, when every Israeli has
health care, & Americans don't?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

45. Israel needs to start paying all that money back...

it's been untold Millions, probably Billions, and we sure could use that money right here ...

[GreenArrow]

19. For fuck's sake, what does it matter?

The "electable" candidates all pro-Israel at this point. There aren't going to be any major differences in their positions. Israel is our fair haired boy, or we're their's but it amounts to the same thing.

[CWebster]

24. might as well dismiss anything that matters, huh? nt

[GreenArrow]

26. I'm saying it's a moot point

there will not be any substantive differences on this issue, at least not as far the front runners are concerned. Us Foreign policy is set, and none of these guys are going to offer to change it's foundations.

[CWebster]

28. Actually Dean did

and he got slapped down by Kerry and Lieberman. The others were silent.

Now they want us to vote for them?

[redqueen]

29. Yes, they do

Vote for me or the big bad boogeyman will get you!

It seems to be working just fine this time. Next time I hope it doesn't.

[CWebster]

30. How many more

"next times"?

[GreenArrow]

31. that he got slapped down for it

kind of proves my point. The policy is set, and only cosmetic changes are acceptable.

[gottaB]

27. a couple of links

Jewish Telegraphic Agency--some news stories, short profile, statements.

Arab American Institute.

[edzontar]

49. Kerry will genuflect before his master, Sharon

He is AIPAC all the way.