Why a Nader run will help Kerry.

[Meldread]

I don't understand this torrent of hate directed at Nader when his running will only help Kerry.

Anyone who believes that Nader will gather the same number of votes as last time is, to be frank, out of their mind. For one the Democratic Base is energized with their hatred and anger for Bush which has been carefully cultivated and stroked by Howard Dean. For second moderate conservatives and independents are now starting to fall away from Bush and embrace the Democrats. If the Democratic Nominee fails to win with THAT much in his favor -- then he sure as hell didn't deserve to be the President.

However, a Nader run will help Kerry. We know that Bush is going to blast Kerry for being a "Massachusetts, gay loving, tree hugging, liberal". Well Nader is the balance. You have Nader on the far left, Bush on the far right and with those two extremes it will make Kerry look Moderate. This will help blunt the Bush attack of: "Kerry is a Liberal Scumbag" because all he has to do is point to Nader.

In addition to this Democrats have to remember that the people who normally vote for Nader are people who would have stayed home otherwise. Most of Nader's voters are young college students, extreme hardcore environmentalists, and the hippies from the 60's and 70's (the young rebels at heart). The only likely vote he's taking away from the Democratic Nominee are older voters who are voting for him on the basis of Universal Healthcare. (I know a few Bush leaning voters who voted for Nader based on that reason.)

Nader is not a threat to the Democratic Nominee. If the Nominee fails to win some where by 10,000 votes or so (and that's about the max Nader is going to get in any state) then the Democratic Nominee did something wrong. Focus should be on keeping the Bush hate and anger alive, keep talking to Americans about Jobs and the Economy, and standing up to Bush on key issues in which he is pandering to the far right on.

I repeat: Nader is not a threat.

P.S. I also get the feeling that Nader is going to pull a Dean, where he'll drop out sometime in October like Dean did but leave his name on the ballot. He is a stubborn man, but I know that he doesn't want to continue to have this torrent of anger and hatred directed at him. He's running for President to make a point, points that most people on this board agree on, and to bring up issues that the Democratic Nominee can't bring up because he's to busy being a DLC Democrat.

[Philosophy]

1. I think a Nader run will energize Democratic voters

Nader doesn't even have a party apparatus to help his campaign this time - he'll probably have a hard time even getting on the ballot in some states. But as long as he is running his image will serve as a constant reminder of what happened because of him in 2000, which will energize Democrats and Democratic-leaning voters to get out the vote to more than counter any votes he will take away from us.

[Meldread]

2. That's true as well.

He's going to be hurting without some form of party organization under him.

[WiseMen]

18. Just like Ross Perot "Energized" Republicans in 90's?? Not Really!!

[eaprez]

3. I Agree

Environmentalists don't want to see the Bush Administration returned for another four years. They are smart enough to figure this out and will vote accordingly.

[WiseMen]

19. PLEASE ASK GORE. Just the fact of factionalizm on the left causes Doubt in

the integrity and worth of the Democratic candidate.

[unblock]

4. historically, 3rd party candidates work against the incumbent party

it's one of the '13 keys'. nader's run did work against the democrats in that sense.

so by that theory a 2004 nader run should work against bush.

despite the initial thought that nader would split the left vote, it also gives more of voice to bash bush with, plus lets the democrat position himself as the moderate in the race.

the very fact of a 3rd party run is a sign the incumbent party is in trouble.

[Meldread]

6. Exactly.

That's why I don't understand why so many people are practically having an aneurism over the guy. I mean they act like he's the anti-Christ walking among us.

I foresee most everything he does as benefiting us. In fact Kerry might even NEED Nader to run in order to win -- to help position himself more as a Moderate. The only person that it could really hurt would be Edwards because he's more hawkish and really is a DLC moderate.

Although I fully expect Nader to attack Kerry on his IWR, Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind votes as well as skipping out on the Medicare Vote. Although all of that is Kerry's fault, but it gives him the opportunity to explain to a national audience WHY he made those votes. So really, it only hurts him with liberals depending on his answers to the questions.

[Raya]

21. Data Please. 3rd Party is usually factionalism in incumbent Party.

It is absolutely bizzare for dems to be devided on the left and think
that it is beneficial.

[adadem]

5. Very well put.

and I tend to agree with your points this morning. Yesterday I was scared and furious and dredging up all the frustration I felt with all the Nader supporters who attended the inaugural protest with us...at the time I felt they were hypocrites.

But you're right in that a Nader run may actually help the Dem candidate by deflecting some of the attacks from the pugs. It would also bring more negative ads against bush. And the fact that the Nader voters did attend the inaugural protests, in fairly great numbers, makes me believe that they will do whatever it takes to get rid of shrub. Also Nader won't be running as the Green Party candidate...imho, he would have less attraction as a Independent

All I pray is that I don't have to eat my words in November.

[vi5]

7. I agree 100% with your post. Nice job.....

Seriously, every single word of every single sentence in this post captured how I fee to a tee.

Thanks.

[Meldread]

8. Thanks.

It just really irks me that people are so anti-Nader when most of the people agree with him on his positions more than they do the Democratic Candidate. Then those same people (well some of them at least) complain during the non-election years that the Democrats are pandering to much to the middle and the right. Nader is running to help with that problem, to make the issues *WE* (being the majority on DU) care about *REAL* issues that are talked about.

In addition to that if Kerry wins the Nomination he might actually *NEED* Nader to run in order to win moderate voters.

[elfin]

9. Sure it will help - it helped Al Gore didn't it???

Nader's narcissistic take on 2000 would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic. This is a brilliant person who has made postitive differences in our lives up to the moment when his actions meant the most.

Now he has another moment - if he runs, my pre-2000 admiration for him will harden into concrete contempt.

People will justifiably determine that he has severe mental problems and he risks NEVER being listened to again on ANYTHING.

[HFishbine]

23. Ah baloney

If Al Gore hadn't run, he wouldn't have taken all those votes away from Ralph Nader and Bush wouldn't be in the White House now.

[Kahuna]

10. Good points. I agree with your analysis.

:yourock:

[KittyWampus]

11. I Am Laughing So Hard At Your One Line:

This will help blunt the Bush attack of: "Kerry is a Liberal Scumbag" because all he has to do is point to Nader.

Now WHO is the real "Liberal Scumbag".

:D

[JI7]

12. i was going to post exactly that

the part about nader being good if john kerry wins the nomination because he could make kerry look less liberal or make the right wing attacks less effective. i was going to write up on that and post it but you did it. but if john edwards wins the nomination it's a different case probably. all i know is i can only see nader being a help if kerry wins the nomination.

[Meldread]

13. bump

[poskonig]

14. Correct! Nader also helped Gore in 2000.

Psych!

[mot78]

15. Only if he attacks * more than Kerry or Edwards

if he devotes all of his time attacking us, than he'll do as much damage as before.

[Doomsayer13]

16. It didn't help Gore

I hope Nader doesn't have the audacity to turn his Gore=Bush lie into Kerry=Bush which would be rediculous.

[WiseMen]

17. Wrong! New Polls Kerry Looses w Nader. Anti-War & Dean Vote strong

New Newsweek Poll: Kerry 48% vs Bush 45%.

With Edwards added to the ticket: Kerry/Edwards 49% vs Bush/Cheney 45%

Interestingly, Newsweek article is totally focused on Edwards but numbers still don’t look good for Edwards compared with Kerry.

But, just on Fox that Fox Poll has Kerry just beating Bush but loosing if Nader enters the race – Nader takes 4%. Nader still pulling strong because of anti-IWR and impact of Dean campaign pundits suggest.

[Darth_Ole]

20. Kerry and Edwards supporters wanted Dean out long ago.

They said he would never beat Bush and he was just a screamer and a nuisance.

But if it weren't for him, the liberal base would NEVER would have been as active as it is today. B/c after the mid-term elections, our party was running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

Let Nader run, for Chrissake. He might get some voters out. Instead of blaming him, why don't you start blaming Kerry for voting Republican all the time, eh? "You have the power to take this country back," as Dr. Dean said.

[HFishbine]

25. Guess we better not nominate Kerry or Edwards then

Seems pretty clear.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

22. All he needs is 538 votes in certain states

to keep us out again.

[HFishbine]

26. Wrong

All Kerry needs is an extra 538 votes in certain states to win it. (Using your oversimplified logic.) Surely Kerry can persuade 538 people who voted for Bush or Nader last time that he's the better choice this time around, right? That's why he's "electable," right?

[Monte Carlo]

24. I don't think Nader's campaign will be big enough to shield the nominee.

As you said, Nader got 3% of the popular vote in 2000, and you'd have to be near crazy to think he's going to come close to that this time around, much less exceed it to the point of being a contender. It just looks like a two-foot midget blocking for a 360 lb. nose tackle, to me.