Does Barack being light skinned help him?

[loveangelc]

Okay, so I am taking Intro to African American studies and we were talking about colorism in America and specifically it having to do with black people. Do lighter skinned African Americans get treated better. It is a taboo subject within the community but also a real subject, my professor said. My professor cited a study showing (for black people) the lighter the shade a person is, the more likely they are to receive a job and earn more on a job. And this one girl in my class who is black brought up the fact that most elected people who are black and elected in a non-majority black area are usually light skinned. Personally I thought this was silly because a light skinned black person is still black and still go through the same thing, but a lot of people agreed with her. So the professor (who is has chocolate skin) asked if Barack Obama would be considered as viable a candidate if he were her skin color and had hair like her (she wears dreadlocks), but he was the same person. I thougt he would be taken the same way but a lot of people disagreed. What do you all think?

[YOY]

1. Does being dark skinned help Alan Keyes?

Just to throw another thought out...

[incapsulated]

2. Yes.

He is bi-racial like myself and yes it helps.

This is still a racist society.

[liberalnurse]

45. I thought he was Italian?

:smoke:

[Zueda]

78. Nice....

What point do you suggest that photoshopped picture says? Louse.

[mikelgb]

3. fix your grammar

plz

[quinnox]

4. Why not

If Obama was a deep black I bet he wouldn't be quite the media phenom, its sad but true.

Obama is very light skinned.

[goldcanyonaz]

5. I'm only 30 but back in my Mothers day there was such a thing as the "paper bag" test.

If one was lighter than a paper bag they could more easily pass as white.

I truly don't find that discrimination to be present in this day.

[ariesgem]

25. It's still exists. Especially for women. Have you taken a look at the casting of advertisements,

TV shows and movies. In most cases, lighter skin black women are used to cast for advertising products, are the wives and mothers of successful black men and are used as the objects of beauty and love interests in regards to interracial story lines. The paper bag scenario is also used for the casting of children.

Darker skinned women are mostly delegated to the roles of prostitutes, crack heads, loud brassy *itches with 12 kids, etc....

[goldcanyonaz]

30. That's just women in general. What about all the ads and tv shows that cast women as size 00...

[ariesgem]

38. I was referring to your comment regarding "the paper bag test."

and pointing out that it STILL exists today.

[Radical Activist]

74. Yeah, I've seen that

For some reason Mariah Carey popped into my mind. Remember her first big hit video that had some kind of light distortion that made everything look whiter? It wasn't until her next album that I realized she considered herself black.

[bunnies]

6. dreadlocks are sexy.

:bounce:

[faithfulcitizen]

7. Yes, but he is bi-racial. nt

[Catherine Vincent]

8. Not with Obama but in other cases, yes. nt

[AspenRose]

10. Agreed

Barack also happens to be biracial, which opens up a whole other can of worms, but look at Harold Ford, for example.

Hmm....now what do you do if you're a multiracial light skinned woman with locks? (like me?) *evil cackle*

There's no place for me I suppose!

[Frogger]

9. I tend to agree

with you.

About the dreadlocks, though. I wouldn't take any politician seriously who wore them, anymore than I would take seriously a male politician that wore a pageboy or ponytail.

Just a personal opinion.

[loveangelc]

26. I dont think she was necessarily referring to her dreadlocks...

but the fact that her hair would be considered "kinky" hair. When one of his elementary teacher described him, she described him as being "curly haired" which in some parts of the black community is also known as "good hair." I think she was talking about that more than dreadlocks necessarily..

[Frogger]

46. You may be right.

I don't know. But it said "dreadlocks", a truly unappealing hairstyle IMO

[Catherine Vincent]

48. A truly unappealing hairstyle?

I don't think so. Captain Jack Sparrow has them!





:loveya:

[AspenRose]

82. Oh please.....locks have evolved

....though you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[Frogger]

84. Perhaps I was mistaken

;-)

[orleans]

11. wasn't his mom from kansas? i wonder if he'll get the kansas vote n/t

[Adelante]

54. His dad; mom and him

[Vektor]

69. Baby Obama!

OMG.

So cute!

[nealmhughes]

81. Senator looks like Little Bill in that baby picture!

As for the "light skin/dark skin" thingy, this is something I learned long ago as a white male not to touch with a ten foot pole.

And yes, one of my undergrads who is a model by the way, told me a sorority rejected her for failing the paper bag test when they gave out a little bag of goodies at rush. She taught me a whole lot about contemporary upper middle class African-American society in Atlanta. I did not even know there was such a thing as Jack and Jill until I met her. She told me about the cotillions, with dads and dates in full tails, etc. doing the minuet, etc.

Was she light or dark skinned or some other definition of hue? Inmaterial. She was gorgeous and I had a huge crush on her face, body, style, intellect and personality, even though I was old enough to be her father. One of my cohorts did date her, though, but he wasn't her instructor. She is on the news as a broadcaster at a mid-sized SE station now.

She once asked me about the issue and I just asked, "What do you think about Croyle this year as QB?"

[otohara]

97. Another Pic of His Mom

With her second hubby

[ripple]

96. He won the dem straw poll here.

And he will win on caucus day. ;)

[moez]

12. I would guess that he'd be successful even if he were darker skinned.

However, I think the dreadlocks would do him in - much more so than a ponytail would hinder the success of a white politician.

I would also guess that his dialect (or lack thereof) makes him much more palatable to white society.

[goldcanyonaz]

13. Are those who are answering yes, black?

Thanks!

[goldcanyonaz]

31. bumpity bump for my question.

thanks!

[Vektor]

32. I answered "possibly..."

In a way. As in, "I've heard of the phenomenon."

I am white. I cannot speak for anyone else answering. :-)

[goldcanyonaz]

36. I appreciate your response!

[Vektor]

41. No problem.

:hi:

The most experience I have with this in modern society is that my teenage nieces and nephews have mentioned to me that many kids in high school "self segregate" i.e., tend to stick with kids of the same ethnicity at school, during lunch, etc. Some of the biracial kids, particularly the ones who have one black parent and one white one, will catch flack for not being "black" enough by the black kids, and don't really fit in with the white kids either. There's not much blatant harassment or anything, just that many of the kids tend to form cohesive peer groups based on ethnicity, and some of the kids who don't fit into one ethnic group tend not to have a "clique" that they fit so easily into.

[Adelante]

55. Why do you ask? nt

[goldcanyonaz]

58. Because I'm black and don't find this to be true any longer.

[goodgd_yall]

70. I answered yes.

The question of the OP is about Obama's run for president. Taking in the whole U.S. and considering he's running for the top office of the land, I think his "tint" does make a difference on his acceptability as a candidate. But as I noted in my other post, I think the fact that he has not familial connection to the history of racism in this country or the civil rights movement, is also why whites may not feel threatened by him.

[CitizenLeft]

90. I'm black

I wouldn't have thought of Obama as all that "light." I guess that's a relative thing. He would not blend in in a sea of white faces.

I also think that, yes, if he were browner, he'd be having a more difficult time. But even that is difficult to say with certainty - a person with his charisma may be able to overcome any obstacle.

[Snarkturian Clone]

14. I work in an inner city school

and there's a kid the black students call "Slaveskin" because he is so dark.

On the other hand, here in Philly we just elected a new mayor who is on the darker side of the spectrum and technically Philly is majority white (45% white 43% black).

[sniffa]

15. i wonder who will win the skin color vote

[Vektor]

16. I have heard of this phenomenon, also.

I remember the subject of "passing" back in the late 19th and early 20th century. Light skinned, or bi-racial folks were often allowed to "pass" more easily by white society, and given more respect and freedoms. (Though not nearly enough, obviously.) Sad but true - people are always so quick to judge, particularly by appearance.

I am not sure to what extend Obama's skin tone will affect how "viable" he'll be as a candidate, but I think the fact that he is considered a nice looking, handsome person will probably have more of an impact than anything. Attractive people tend to be given a pass, too.

[loveangelc]

33. well being mixed in history

at many times been associated with being good looking. I heard that the propaganda message used in slavery days to justify masters raping slaves was that the mixed slave was so good looking that the master could not resist them or something...

thats partly where the "tragic mulatto" stereotype comes from

[hedgehog]

17. On the other hand, to me Barack looks very East African.

It's not skin color so much as the shape of his face and general build. East Africans have a different look from West and South Africans just as Swedes look different than Italians. I guess I'm suggesting that his ethnicity is a factor as well as skin color. If that's true, I have no idea if that makes things easier or harder for him.

I sure hope I didn't offend anybody; it's a tricky subject.

For your survey purposes, I'm Irish Catholic.

[goldcanyonaz]

19. To me he looks very European, he's a good looking man...

No one can dispute that regardless of whom they support.

[Steely_Dan]

18. Does Anyone Else...

disturbed by this question?

-P

[moez]

20. I'd be more disturbed

by someone that is disturbed by the question.

[Steely_Dan]

67. Sorry...I Misread the Original Post

[goldcanyonaz]

21. Why?

[moez]

23. ..... never mind

I responded to the wrong post.

[goldcanyonaz]

27. My "Why?" was to the above poster.

[moez]

29. I just saw that....

Sorry.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Spike Lee Did A Movie On The Topic "School Daze"

It was quite controversial in the African American community...

[Bluebear]

24. 'who is has chocolate skin'

:silly:

[loveangelc]

39. I MEANT

"has chocolate skin" i was going to say "is chocolate skinned." Sorry I did not proof read for perfection before I posted.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. Yes, but

I think that is only one factor. Keep in mind that he was not raised in an African-American household. When he talks he doesn't sound like he's black.

[goldcanyonaz]

34. Sound black? He speaks like every other well raised American.

I highly doubt you meant the racist connotations but not all us blacks speak ebonics.

[Freddie Stubbs]

40. I am not talking about ebonics

I am talking about how many African-Americans have a slightly different way of talking when it comes to intonations. Its not about proper use of the English language. Have you ever been on the phone with someone and knew that they were African-American?

Here is an example of this:

http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/article.php?id=357

[goldcanyonaz]

44. That's a poor education and poor upbringing that does that...

What about poor educated whites? I'd know their "trailer trash" speakin ass anywhere!

:sarcasm:

These days I can only discern those from India.

[ariesgem]

49. How do you know that many of the folks you've spoken to on the phone

weren't black?

This happened to my father who was a real estate agent. He was on the phone with potential buyers who were looking for an agent and they told him they didn't want to buy a house near black people. They couldn't tell he was black and decided OVER THE PHONE that he would be the guy to find their dream home. I wish I could have saw the look on their faces when they met with him at the office. After their arrival, my father referred them to another agent.
:rofl:

geez... :eyes:

[Catherine Vincent]

35. ...!

You may want to rephrase that.

[Freddie Stubbs]

43. Whites are more accepting of blacks who look and sound like them

I'm not defending. But it is reality.

[Catherine Vincent]

50. All whites do not sound alike to me. nt

[CitizenLeft]

92. I like that picture too

I think they'd be great running together, if it comes to that.

[Beacool]

52. I always meant to tell you that I love that picture.

There's a lot of sex appeal in the way they both are looking at each other. Pity that they probably won't look at each other in that same way ever again.

[BootinUp]

75. mutual respect too. nt

[Catherine Vincent]

80. Yes, I agree with you.

But there is always hope. :)

[Apollo11]

101. I don't think Obama talks like a white guy.

If I am listening to one of Obama's speeches and close my eyes, I can see Martin Luther King Jr.

I never met a white guy who could talk like Barack Obama. There's something in the rhythm of how he talks.

It's also true that white folks dance different. As a white guy, there are some moves I must not even try! ;-)

[goodgd_yall]

37. Yes, and

it helps he has no generational connection to racism and the civil rights movement. No "baggage" in the eyes of white America.

[Nailzberg]

42. It's 30 years old, but anyone else reminded of the SNL sketch "Black Perspectives"

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/76/76rblackperspective.phtml



Garrett Morris: Well, I think I understand the problem with the (IQ) tests. But the fact is that people have been saying that white people are smarter than black for hundreds of years. We've only had I.Q. tests for 20 or 30 years. How did the idea of white intellectual superiority originate?

Julian Bond: That's an interesting point. My theory is that it's based on the fact that light-skinned blacks are smarter than dark-skinned blacks.

Garrett Morris: Say what?!

[FrenchieCat]

47. Why would it help him?

Obama's skin color doesn't "help" him in any ways in this Presidential race....if anything, the fact that he is not "White" is his disadvantage when it comes right down to it.

The overwhelming majority of the voting population is not Black. I will instead say that many Americans who do not vote for Obama, will not be voting for him because he is not White..... regardless of what shade he might be.

Please know that regardless of any Light vs. Dark hue difference in treatment, (aka, the advantage that you speak about), in a presidential race, I don't believe that being anything other than White is considered as an advantage.

Black folks do not consider this subject as taboo as you mention; there have been quite a few books, etc... on the subject.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. Did you see the movie "School Daze"?

Spike Lee got all mighty Hell from some for making it...

[goldcanyonaz]

56. I've never cared for Spike Lee. I always found him to be a troublemaker.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. I Love Spike But We Can Still Be Friends

School Daze depicted a traditionally black college where the light skinned and dark skinned coeds separated themselves into groups...

[goldcanyonaz]

60. haha! I didn't care for that movie and don't feel as though it represents our society at all.

Spike Lee loves to pin us blacks up against "the man" whites.

I don't see that being a problem in this day and age. If it still is an issue to some, they were just raised wrong.

[FrenchieCat]

61. There is a difference between what is talked about openly within

the Black community and what is considered airing dirty laundry in the company of non Blacks.

White society gave this gift to the Black Community many years ago, and it has taken many years for Black folks to deal with it and attempt to get rid of it....so it is not a "proud" situation to show to others.

This issue of the mentality of "he who is closer to the White man in color is better" is also prevalent in the Philippines, India, Spain, Italy, Brazil, Cuba and other Latin American countries including Argentina, Mexico, etc..... and most of the Caribbean Islands......Some has to do with the left over days of slavery....and in other countries, it has to do with Western Culture piercing through the subject cultures.

Black folks have discussed the "damn bright and nearly whites" forever in discussions with each other....and there are quite a few books on the subject,

but in reference to White Folks,

As Barack himself said......"Nobody questioned my 'blackness' before I announced I was running for President,"
http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur39032.cfm


Because at the end of the day, Black is not White, period.

[goldcanyonaz]

62. I take it you're black, right?

"Because at the end of the day, Black is not White, period."

See, I am and find your findings to be totally fucked.

[FrenchieCat]

68. Yes.....I am

And we can agree to disagree.....but please know that you do not hold a corner market on what's what.

Please let me know what you disagree with, as opposed to using foul language to register the fact that you do. It would be helpful to whomever might be following this exchange.

Thank you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. It Seemed To Me You Were Describing A Phenomenon

You didn't say the sentiments were laudable...

[FrenchieCat]

73. Certainly! Nothing laudable about it.....

But I'm still lost as to what the "f*ck" using poster actually meant in his criticism of what I was saying. Hope he/she clarifies what exactly that was about. :shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

76. I Don't Know

My girlfriend is from the Phillipines...Even among Asians there is a conceit among some that are the most "European" looking ...

[Catherine Vincent]

79. Good response, Frenchie.

:thumbsup:

[babylonsister]

77. I can back you up on this concerning dark-skinned

Indonesians. Just about the only skin products you see in stores are for 'whitening' creams. The Indonesians who aren't 'working class' are very concerned with keeping as light as possible, and I'm sure the western TV influence is at work here. The same applies for females and males in local commercials. The lighter people are, the better, according to them. Meanwhile, I go over there to lay on the beach and get a good tan, so we both respectully think each other is nuts!
As for your personal experience, what's to discuss? That's your experience and I'd be the last person to question it.
:hi:

[CitizenLeft]

94. you are right

And there's one other culture not mentioned. Tahitians, BEFORE they were "discovered," revered lighter skin. Lighter skin meant oneness with the gods. They were the elite of Tahitian society, the aristocracy, and the browner people were the middle and lower classes - and those classes were set in stone. They didn't learn this from Europeans; Captain Cook was surprised to find this attitude already a cultural preference when he landed. It was so prevalent that, in the Bounty tragedy, the Polynesian men who landed on Pitcairn with Fletcher Christian left no children. Six of them, after 3 years of, presumably, unlimited sex whenever they wanted it, left no children. It's believed that the Tahitian women who were left over for their "use" - yeah, it was like that - aborted any pregnancies because they preferred the Englishmen because of their white skin, and the status that came with it. Not a single pure-blooded Tahitian child was born on Pitcairn. Very sad, but true. It's one of the ugly things about that story that's hard to swallow.

[fujiyama]

95. You bring up some good examples

I am most familiar with that of India, where more often than not people who have come from "lower caste" backgrounds have generally been darker skinned. It is somewhat generalized, but many in the country are also obsessed with "fair skin".

This is likely a holdover from the colonial days, though it is possible such racism existed beforehand.

[Irreverend IX]

98. It's pretty obvious where the preference originates.

Light skin is favored in Asian cultures as well, because having dark skin is a sign that you work outside all day (i.e. you're a peasant) whereas aristocrats have light skin due to sitting inside all the time. This trend has reversed to a degree in some Western societies where most people work indoors and a suntan is a sign that you have enough free time to hang out on the beach and play sports.

[AspenRose]

83. Here's a good book

http://www.amazon.com/Color-Complex-Kathy-Russell/dp/0385471610/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197341649&sr=1-1

Incidentally, this occurs in the hispanic community, too (light vs. dark).

[Bitwit1234]

53. Don't you mean light headed and light weight.

[H2O Man]

59. He's not "light skinned."

If you ever look at a photo of him next to the other democratic candidates, you'll see that they are light skinned, and that he has brown skin.

[BootinUp]

63. Not black

my wife is.

I would say this topic is a bit too controversial for open discussion without hurt feelings.

[goldcanyonaz]

65. I'm black and not offended by this topic at all.

I love your "Not black" posting though.

Too cute!

Brava!

[galledgoblin]

64. yes, sadly

that Obama can even run and that he actually has the White House within reach is a massive jump forward, but don't fool yourself, racism is still alive and corrupting in this country. some are willing to vote for someone who can "pass" but would never consider someone who had rich dark skin.

[zulchzulu]

66. Can he dance and sing like a good ol' boy?

Yeesh...

[rucky]

72. Not with many dark-skinned blacks.

sad but true. some of the worst racism I've seen was black-on-light black (and vice-versa).

[ecstatic]

85. Well studies show yes. and it's not just blacks, it's indians, asians, etc. nt

[BluegrassDem]

86. I'm a light-skinned African-American

And I believe I've benefited in life from having lighter skin. It's not something I'm proud of, nor is it something I seek out, but that's the reality of this society. The darker you are, the more you have to overcome. But I do think that this problem is worse in other places than in others. I think these color attitudes are far more prevalent down south than in other places.

[CitizenLeft]

91. so am I

and I totally agree. And I'm happy to say that things are much better than they used to be. Time has healed some of those wounds, at least for the majority. I hope.

[Sultana]

87. He may be light-skinned

but remember that he is part African. In my opinion that throws another factor into the mix. Light or dark doesn't matter I will support him and I am proud that he is of African heritage.

Nonetheless this color issue irritates me so much but sadly it I will never go away.

:-(

[Joe the Revelator]

88. What do I think? I think this is thinly veiled race baiting.

nt

[H2O Man]

99. So "thinly veiled"

that it is transparent.

[rucky]

104. It's been pretty civilized so far.

Nothing wrong with open, honest discussion about race.

[provis99]

89. depends on whether you're talking to whites or blacks

I suppose the attitude among whites has always been, if you're a little black, you're all black. One drop rule, and all that. They don't care whether he's light-skinned or dark-skinned, he's just black, period. I think Obama even made reference to this earlier in the campaign when reporters asked him how others thought of him racially. And having a white mother doesn't help: I would expect that would hurt him among whites, rather than help.

[fujiyama]

93. It might

After all, Colin Powell - another light skinned black person was also popular among white people.

[Apollo11]

100. I agree that lighter skinned people probably experience less (overt) discrimination.

Just think about how Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston were photographed in a way to make them appear more light-skinned so that their music could cross over to a "mainstream" white audience. Then think about where Michael Jackson got the idea to start using skin-lightening products.

As a white person, I have to be aware of the fact that I am subconsciously judging people by their skin color every single day. Most white people are maybe not even aware of it. But to a white person Barack Obama looks "more like us" than someone of 100% African roots (if you see what I mean).

Here's another question: does Barack having a black wife help him with black voters?

Imagine if Barack was married to a white woman. Then ask yourself: what difference does it make?

Would the OJ Simpson trial have got half as much media attention if the victims had been black?

My point is that skin color is probably more important in terms of how we see other people than most of us realize.

Probably Obama's light skin does help him with white voters. Probably his black wife helps him with black voters.

Not saying I agree with it but it's definitely there, even if we never talk about it.

[Apollo11]

102. This could be a topic for Larry Wilmore - The Daily Show's Senior Black Correspondent

I'm sure he would be able to clarify this issue for us. B-)

[libodem]

103. Being handsome helps

and that man is one fine, Statesman. When he speaks people can't help but be moved. I'm still mad that, Michelle, said he smells bad in the morning.
He looks like he'd smell like aftershave and have peppermint breath. I'm still so neurotic about having the Repubs have any chance at the WH again, I'm skeptical of a woman or that beautiful red/brown color. Edwards fits the basic white/male stereotype that has always been successful in the past. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Now, is a bad time to test new theories. Just my opinion, which is subject to change, so put down those flame throwers. :)