I am sick of the anti-women atitude here. It's time for a Woman Prseident

[NewHampster]

I am a man and it really pisses me off when people say Hillary got the Des Moines Register endorsement because the board is all women. Bullshit!!

Those are professional women who over the last few days understood that the gender issue might be raised. They decided to stick by their analysis and go with Hillary because she is the best person for the job.

That said. One of my first reasons for supporting Clinton is the fact that she is a woman. It is real and it is a valid reason for supporting someone.

Gender is not like color. Gender does affect attitude, Motherhood affects ones empathy.

Hillary is a woman and we need a woman running this country.

My grandmother ran the house
My mother ran the house
My wife sure does run our house
It's time for a woman to run the White House!

Ladies, Do you agree?

[ClassWarrior]

1. Pelosi in '07!!

(for details, see below...)

NGU.

[itsrobert]

155. Condi in '08

Time for a woman. Whatever that means.

[babylonsister]

2. No, I don't. That's the wrong reason to vote for anyone imo. nt

[NewHampster]

11. there are many other reasons too but womanhood is one

and I believe it is valid.

you might want to watch the register's video editorial, by a woman.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071215/VIDEO05/71215013

[babylonsister]

49. I have to intuitively like a candidate before I consider voting for them, and

that's not happening to me. There's too much I don't like about Clinton and gender has nothing to do with it. Believe what you want; I'm not trying to change your mind, just trying to answer your question.

[MH1]

103. Gender is not a valid reason, for or against. (It's sexist either way).

If there really were two exactly equivalent candidates, perhaps. But that will never happen.

[liberalnurse]

106. All we see posted around here now are the anti-Hillary jargon

threads saying she got the Des Monies Register Endorsement because women are on the Board. So, we have 200 years+++ of men voting, nominating, endorsing, enabling, and electing only other men...........Now, just fucking once, the Board has to be comprised of all women and there is OUTCRY that a Board selected a women! Would there of been an outcry if ANY of the Democratic men were selected? Hell No! It would be expected that women be obedient!

Well, let me tell ya boys a thing or two.............We ain't going to obey anymore.

[bobbolink]

145. That's ALL you see???

[joeybee12]

23. I've heard people say they will vote for Obama because he's black...

...and being black he has a different perspective...I can see that being legitimate...so why do you deny other people such options?

[babylonsister]

40. What options have I denied anyone? The OP asked a question and

I answered it. I don't think race or gender should have anything to do with how to pick a president.
I voiced my opinion-I'm not trying to convert anyone.

[knight_of_the_star]

73. I agree

What someone's gender is for is not a determining factor if they get my vote. Just look at Margaret Thatcher for an example of the dangers of such thinking.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

128. I wish Barbara Boxer were running for President

She'd get my support. But I wouldn't be voting for her just because she's a woman.

[ncabot22]

3. I'm a woman and I say

it depends on the woman running. For instance, would you want Condoleeza Rice as president? Of course not. I just don't think Hillary Clinton is the best person to run the country. I have absolutely NO animosity towards her but I think she's too corporate and I don't like her "finger in the wind" style of politics. She's brilliant, to be sure. I just don't think she is the right PERSON to run the country.

[Madam Mossfern]

4. Don't agree

I don't agree that voting for Hillary because she is a woman is a good reason.

[annie1]

5. i think more democrats would be for her if she...

were more outspoken out issues that democrats care about, and would step off of voting for war.
but it would be nice to have a woman in the white house.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

182. Its not what hillary speaks on that concenrs me

Its what and how she acts on..

Iran vote anyone?

[glowing]

6. No... Not this woman!!! She is working for herself, not for us.

[Deja Q]

88. Right on, Glowing!

:thumbsup:

[Auntie Bush]

157. Have a link for that comment or are you psychic?

[glowing]

218. Strange comment. I think her ambitions and her voting record and her

speeches have spoken volumes. I happened to get a good education. I can take observations to another level and use analysis and critical thinking skills to comprehend the overall total package that is being delivered to me. I supose some who haven't been taught these skills would call it psychic.

Its the same way I knew Bush was a liar. The same way I knew the war in Iraq had nothing to do with Nuclear Weapons and had everything to do with increasing the price of oil. Some people are still blind to this--we call them the, now, 25%'rs.

[Auntie Bush]

224. I've taken my fair of courses in Psy. and excelled in critical

thinking and I possess the same qualities and skills as you...so we are even. How come you and I come to a totally different conclusion about Hilary? :shrug:

[glowing]

227. Hmm... Not sure. Difference in opinion... Difference in background..

difference in life-experiences. I would love to elect a woman. I'd be great in that position--too young to even consider, yet. Actually, when I do start running for offices, I would prefer the legislative side... I like to fix things, not mandate them. Of course, if the executive branch remains as powerful as it has become, perhaps that is the best course to "fix things".

Maybe after all is said and done, I just don't trust her. Her record is not consistent. She seems to change to fit an image, rather than fully envelope and embrace the change.

[Evergreen Emerald]

7. Right on NewHamster

Go Clinton!

[Dawgs]

8. So you have no problem with voting against a woman/man because of sex?

Or, what about voting against or for someone because of their race?

Is that okay with you?

[NewHampster]

21. Race is not the same thing

The race card covers two genders.

there are woman of all races who have experience I as a man will never understand. Motherhood especially, brings a level of empathy we men cannot feel.

[Dawgs]

33. I'll take that as a yes for both questions.

BTW, motherhood experiences is not a reason to vote for someone.

[sandnsea]

53. I don't know why men aren't outraged by that

I've known plenty of men who are just as tender and empathetic as women.

[bunnies]

61. This is a great point.

Not to mention women (like me) who are not mothers.

[krkaufman]

222. To reiterate a point of fact, Margaret Thatcher was a mother.

Being a man, woman, father, mother, uncle, aunt ... makes NO matter. It's your actions based on your experiences that matter.

[ruggerson]

83. And I've known a few women who make my skin crawl

n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

113. We've learned that there is very little percentage in pointing that out here.

The DU anti-woman attitude? Meh.

[maxanne]

65. horse hockey

Would you say Barbara Bush Sr. has a level of empathy you men cannot feel?

[NewHampster]

126. probably

I bet she's held back lots since her loving son has been in power.

[maxanne]

174. yeah sure

her and Maggie Thatcher.

This whole line of thought is disturbingly sexist. To suggest women have some empathy because we give birth is a load of codswallop,
spewed by people who never met MY mother.

Those who claim women are so catty that they can't stand to see a successful
woman are sexist. Those who tell me I must vote for Hillary are sexist.

Women my age fought to be treated as equals. My rejection of Clinton as a candidate is the finest feminist tribute
I can offer to her. I reject her in the same way I reject ANY unacceptable candidate.

[Turn CO Blue]

189. Excellent reply! I agree with you that this

whole line of thought (those that say, "if you don't vote for Clinton, you're sexist") is itself a rather disturbing show of sexism. It's an insult to all the feminists who came before us who were looking for equity.

I place Clinton in the bottom group of possibles because of her platform, just like I'd reject Condi Rice or Kay Bailey Hutchison because of their platforms. I place her on equal footing (the whole point of the feminist movement) with the men she is running against and I will NOT give her "extra credit" for her gender(or having a vagina or having given birth), nor will I give Richardson and Obama extra credit for being of-color, nor will I give Biden extra credit for being older (since by the OP's line of reasoning, not voting for Biden could construed as ageism!), nor will I give Edwards extra credit for being southern.

[Sandaasu]

210. That's sexism, and I find it quite offensive.

Gender is also a continuum, not some simple black and white thing with nothing in between, as so many people try to make it out to be. Someone is not more empathic just because they are physically female.

[Bongo Prophet]

260. Do you even realize what you are saying?

There is NO WAY that you know how each and every man thinks or feels, or their level of compassion.

You just insulted women who are not mothers. That is pretty sexist in and of itself.

Lynn Cheney is a mother. Do you think she is more compassionate than, say, Rachel Maddow?
You can get a hint by their actions and posiions, but do you really know?

I could go on, but the stupid burns so much. It hurts.

Support your candidate with reasoned arguments based on policy or personal record or what have you - but this tripe only reflects POORLY on your candidate, especially if you do this type of thing in the real world.

[saltpoint]

9. If sex and gender should not be obstacles to women's success, neither should

they be hinge determinants at any level of the who-ya-votin'-for conversation.

How about Kay Bailey Hutchison? How much momma-like empathy do you think we'd have under a Hutchison White House?

My guess is not too damn much.

Senator Clinton leads all national polling and may become the next president. IMO if she does not become the next president, it will have almost nothing at all to do with her being female.

It will be a result of Democratic primary voters selecting someone else they'd more prefer in power.

[NewHampster]

28. I disagree

It will be very much about her womanhood.

Limbaugh will call her a feminista. Others will say she cannot be commander in chief because she never pointed a gun and pulled the trigger on another human being.

[saltpoint]

43. Hi, NewHampster. I just don't think it will be the big topic you think it will

be.

She hasn't lost her lead in New Hampshire, Iowa, and South Carolina because she's a woman.

There are other factors in that equation in her downtrend polling, and none of them involves her being female.

[gmudem]

170. So do you not care about her positions at all?

Or does the fact she is a woman do it for you? It doesn't bother you that she supported Kyl-Lieberman for example?

And the argument you're trying to make about empathy is horrible. Your entire argument is horrible. Just give up man.

[krkaufman]

223. Leaving-out the case of Democratic primary voters nominating her ...

... but the general public rejecting her. The Democratic candidate is not guaranteed victory in the general election. (And Clinton has the biggest general election negatives of the three Dem frontrunners.)

[Andy823]

10. Actually

We need the "right" woman running this country! That's the whole point of the 2008 election, to get the right nominee to go against the republicans so not only can we "win" the whitehouse, but have someone in the whitehouse who will work for the "people", not corporate America. I am sorry, but Hillary will not be that person, and it's not because she is a woman, but because she is the "wrong" "persosn" to make the needed changes we need in this country.

We can't vote for anyone simply because they are a "woman", a "blakc man", or a "white man". We need to make sure we can change the corrupt policies in D.C., get control of congress away from the lobbyists, and take on coporate America. We can't keep things as they are now, we need "big" changes if we ever want to see our country return to the people! It's those qualites we need to be looing for in the nominee.

[marylanddem]

12. Bill Clinton, is that you?

[antigop]

13. So how much "empathy" does (s)Hillary have for outsourced workers and workers who lost jobs to h1-bs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)

[HeraldSquare212]

14. Jeanne Kilpatrick for President! nt

[HeraldSquare212]

24. Libby Dole for President! nt

[RufusTFirefly]

36. Condi Rice for President! n/t

[HeraldSquare212]

39. Kay Bailey Hutchison for President! nt

[MrsBrady]

169. ...uh, excuse me, but this is a progessive blog n/t

[ellisonz]

185. ...

:sarcasm:

Welcome to DUh!

[RufusTFirefly]

What about Lynne Cheney?! She's got vice presidential experience!!! n/t

[HeraldSquare212]

62. What about Laura Bush?

She just finished a diplomatic tour of the Middle East! They know and respect her over there.

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. A woman, yes. The woman currently in the race? No

[blm]

16. I don't want BushInc protected more than the peoples' right to open government

And THAT is what you get from another Clinton presidency and I don't care whether closed government comes from a pair of pants or a pair of heels.

YOU want closed government that wears a skirt instead of pants, admit it. But don't pretend that those of us who side WITH open government are guilty of sexism.

[NoodleBoy]

17. Wow, way to conflate not liking Hillary for President with not liking a woman for President.

Janet Napolitano, Kathleen Sebelius, Jennifer Granholm, Janet Reno, Madeline Albright.

Any of these women would make a much better President than Hillary Clinton, and possibly, ALL of the other candidates for President.

But the two major reasons why none of these women are running for President, and Hillary Clinton is, are that Hillary Clinton is in the Senate, and thus gets more national attention-- AND NONE OF THEM ARE MARRIED TO A FORMER PRESIDENT.

I'd stack up the years of experience these talented Democratic women have racked up in executive positions against Hillary Clinton's legislative experience and be much happier with my picks any day.

[NewHampster]

41. Hillary is there because she is at the crest of the woman's movement

She has led the charge since the '70s.

She has broken the glass ceiling and proven that she can rumble with the boys.

She will crash through the last obstacle to equality when she takes the oath of office.

[blm]

63. Then why did she cower for 7yrs in the senate and wouldn't LEAD any battles

against Bush and Rove then?

She showed all her fight was against other Dems who WERE sticking their necks out to oppose Bush.

Backstabbing noted by historian Douglas Brinkley in April2004:
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Tonya Harding joins in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[joshcryer]

237. Welcome to politics. Changes are incremental.

[blm]

242. Yeah - when you become senator, don't DO anything important for 7 yrs.

How would this country and world look if Kerry and Gore chose that route when they became senators?

No advancement on public access to internet. No uncovering of IranContra, illegal wars in Central America, BCCI, CIA drugrunning - BFEE would have had this nation turned to fascism by mid90s.

We'd be celebrating our 10th year of New World Order by now.

[NoodleBoy]

Oh, so she was the first female Secretary of State? the first female Attorney General?

Was Hillary Clinton also a popular, effective, talented Governor of Arizona, Kansas, and Michigan?

[amandabeech]

130. It's not like she started with school board and then made it to the Senate.

She wasn't the one out there until 2000.

If she'd have divorced Bill for his sexual addiction, moved back to Illinois, didn't marry the governor , made it as a lawyer without her husband holding high state office, and THEN made it to the Senate, I'd agree with her breaking the glass ceiling.

Her glass ceiling was already partially broken by Bill. She only gets half credit for that in my book.

[juajen]

201. Neither Albright nor Granholm are eligible, neither being American born.

Obviously, you have not compared qualifications. None of the other candidates you mentioned are nearly as qualified as Hillary Clinton.

[NoodleBoy]

216. I knew that, and they would still make better Presidents.

Janet Reno - Dade County Attorney, 10 years, United States Attorney General, 8 years

Madeleine Albright - United States Ambassador to the United Nations, 4 years, United States Secretary of State, 4 years

Jennifer Granholm - Michigan Attorney General, 4 years, Michigan Governor, 6 years

Janet Napolitano - United States Attorney for Arizona, 6 years, Arizona Attorney General, 4 years, Arizona Governor, 6 years

Kathleen Sebelius - Kansas House of Representatives, 8 years, Kansas Insurance Commissioner, 8 years, Kansas Governor, 6 years

And now:

Hillary Clinton - United States Senator for New York, 8 years.

You know, you're right, I haven't compared their qualifications enough. Now that I've written it all out, the women I think would make great Presidents are vastly more qualified than Hillary Clinton, and perhaps all of the people running for President, although Bill Richardson seems to have kept up.

[bowens43]

18. We need a woman?

What a ridiculous remark that is every bit as bad saying that she shouldn't be president because she's a woman.

Gender and race should never enter into the equation.

[RufusTFirefly]

19. "when people say"

What kind of argument might that be? Hmmm?

[JVS]

197. LOL

[Egnever]

20. I agree Nominate Barbra Boxer!

A woman that is truly fighting for us!

[RufusTFirefly]

26. Totally agree. I'm a huge Boxer fan. n/t

[saltpoint]

46. I'm in on the Boxer campaign. Sign me up.

[lumberjack_jeff]

115. Or Patty Murray. n/t

[skipos]

22. I'd love to see the right woman on the ticket

but I don't think that is Hillary. If Obama is nominated, I highly doubt he would pick a female VP and have the 1st ticket with no white males on it, and Edwards and Obama would need a VP with lots of perceived experience, especially on the foreign end.

I think Biden would be in the best position to choose a female VP, like the one in my avatar. He already has experience, good speaking skills, foreign leaders calling him instead of Rice or Bush, etc. He could pick anyone he wants as VP, and I think America is itching for a GOOD female on the ticket.

[MethuenProgressive]

25. DU's misogynists are blind to their sexism.

And anger quickly when it is pointed out to them.

[goodgd_yall]

80. Right on, MP!

Someone has to say it!

[NoodleBoy]

87. Wow, I had no idea so many liberals, both men and women, hated women!

And you can tell because we don't all love Hillary Clinton. Good on you!

[goodgd_yall]

90. Sarcasm aside---your subject line is quite true n/t

[NoodleBoy]

151. I can't wait to tell my mom, girlfriend, sister, and niece that I hate women. Thanks person

on the internet who's never met me! Without you, I would have never known.

[goodgd_yall]

271. NoodleBoy--I did not say you hate women

I'm saying there are some purported liberals on this board that I believe do, or let's say, have a double standard when it comes to how they perceive men and women.

[Andromeda]

232. And misogynists can be either sex.

Women can be just as sexist as men, sometimes even more so, especially if jealousy rears its ugly head.

[bunnies]

27. No. In fact I couldnt disagree more. nt

[jillan]

29. I totally agree. But I don't pick a President based on their gender.

Or skin color.
Or hair color (or lack of it)
Or if they are tall, fat, skinny, short.


My vote goes to the person that most closely expresses my views.
Period!

[OzarkDem]

30. A lot of us worked very hard to get Dem women elected

We don't want to see that hard work compromised by poor or mediocre women leaders. We've already taken a serious hit with Pelosi in House leadership. Women will be much more reluctant to back another woman candidate just because of her gender.

Women want women political leaders because they will govern better than men.

[mike_c]

31. I would LOVE a female president....

To those who object that gender is not a good reason to elect someone-- babylonsister, my friend-- I'd argue that IF males and females have some fundamental differences in the way they perceive the world and approach problem solving then a female president would certainly offer some unique qualities a male cannot, and perhaps it's time we SEEK those qualities, if for no other reason than we've gone so long without them in the presidency.

That said, the potential benefits of a woman's perspective are not the ONLY reason for choosing a leader. Senator Clinton is simply not the best PERSON for the presidency of the U.S. no matter what her gender, IMO, because any benefits she might bring to the position because of her gender are far overshadowed by the drawbacks of her politics.

[lynnertic]

32. We just don't need one that is essentially Republican. Woman for woman's sake is sexist.

See what Thatcher did for the UK...
Don't vote for any old woman just because you want a woman in office.

It's patronizing and sexist!

If you want real change and true equality in the US, evaluate and support candidates on issues and their record, not superficial elements like gender, hair coverage, height, or race.

I did, and I back Kucinich.

Signed,
A Real Feminist.

[Desertrose]

34. A women...fine. But not Hillary..sorry.

and I agree...I would not vote for her just because she is a woman.



We need a president with vision and compassion and the ability to get the job done without undue influence from big money groups. I just don't see Hillary as that person. Sorry. It would be nice but....... :shrug:

[K Gardner]

35. Would agree if she hadn't been "voting like a man"

Hillary is not that woman you describe. Look at her record and the nasty way she runs her campaign, and the nasty way her supporters attack others. I might agree that I'd like to see a woman running the country. But not this one.

[Happyhippychick]

37. It's painful for me, as a woman, to have to reject this one

I started off as a supporter because I really want a woman President. And I think in general we would have a far less violent world if women were in charge.

But she has turned me off. She dodges and weaves on important questions, she voted for the war (which I might have forgiven had she not voted for the Iran resolution) and the bottom line is that she is not liberal enough for me.

I adore her husband and wish he could be president again. I think I was hoping that it would be a team effort but I'm just not convinced.

I so wish it could be different but I have given it my best effort as a wife, feminist and mother of a daughter - she doesn't do it for me.

[iamahaingttta]

38. If Sen. Clinton is elected president...

...she is going to let Bushco off the hook for its crimes against humanity. She is going to help increase corporate power. She is going to allow the military/industrial/media complex to have more power over our lives, not less. Etc. This is why I will never vote for her. Not because of her vagina.

I do believe it is time for a woman president. Just not this particular woman.

[annie1]

79. wow, that was really well put...

"She is going to help increase corporate power. She is going to allow the military/industrial/media complex to have more power over our lives, not less"

if edwards had put it that way, i might not be so on team hil.

[Quixote1818]

42. We did a poll with a bunch of more popular women and they beat all the male candidates

Hillary is simply no Molli Ivins or Barbara Boxer.

[NewHampster]

45. No. She totally over shadoews them all

She is breaking through and taking the hits for all women.

[Quixote1818]

59. Sorry, not even close!

Molli is no longer with us but Hillary is NO Molli Ivins! Period!

[Quixote1818]

146. OH! You don't support Boxer and Molli! You must be anti-women!!!!

:rofl:

[mike_c]

57. barbara boxer-- now we're talking!

eom

[zulchzulu]

44. This "Playing The Gender Card" brought to you by...

Sorry. No advertisers were willing to go down this road.

[NewHampster]

52. Brought to you by a man - NewHampster

A proud lover of the bra less look and very much a lover of all women.

[Madam Mossfern]

74. That was a stinkin' sexist statement!

"Proud lover of the bra less look..."

[NewHampster]

104. Yes it is but still true

I love women of every color and I am a latent sexist.

I'm also honest which most Americans are not.

[ellisonz]

187. "I'm also honest which most Americans are not."

A bit full of yourself?

[ElizabethDC]

47. I agree with you, NewHampster

I wouldn't say that I'm supporting Hillary solely because she's a woman, or even mostly because she's a woman, but I definitely consider her femaleness a bonus and an important part of who she is.

[NewHampster]

54. and that's what I said

It is one of many factors, not the only one but sure and important one with me.

[aquart]

48. Really? The board's all women?

That's lovely.

But don't look for support among the "ladies" here. Just as there are anti-Semitic Jews, there are women who would attack any woman for achieving status and power. Look at some of the comments about Oprah, not just Hillary Clinton. Just like the vicious columns of Maureen Dowd at the NYT.

The woman who raised Chelsea Clinton is not a heartless fascist. She's intelligent, competent, dogged, ambitious, and never less than a lady in public. I get a little scared at the hysteria here regarding Hillary. It's insanely, foaming-at-the-mouth distorted in its image of her.

[sandnsea]

50. A sexist post bashing sexists, hysterical

Fatherhood affects empathy just as much as motherhood does. At least it does for good fathers. For some women, motherhood triggers the protective instinct and makes them more punitive. You can't say all women react exactly the same to anything.

And to say racism does not affect attitude, well I actually think you didn't mean that.

[NewHampster]

67. if I was as usual misunderstood let me clarify

of course racism is an issue but.

All women are women.

Not all Blacks are women.

Women cross all lines whether Black, white, Jew or Gay.

and I do have issues saying it the right way and look for help from those who are more eloquent.

[jenmito]

72. All Black people are Black people...

Not all women are Black. Does that argument make any sense? NO. Try evaluating someone based on their individual traits rather than their gender or race.

[NewHampster]

93. But I am saying that womanhood is part of individual traits

In Psych 101 we learned that everything about us made up our personality. Our hair style included.

Should Hillary deny her womanhood anymore than Obama should deny his race?

[jenmito]

105. No. What you said was,

"Gender is not like color."

[NewHampster]

109. I stand by what I said

It's not. Color crosses all other boundaries.

and I've hit my limit for explaining it so I don't offend. I know I am not the best writer therefore I'll be quiet.

[jenmito]

118. Well then, you missed my point...

Just as all women are women no matter the race, all Black people are Black people no matter the gender. You seem unable to apply your own logic to something you don't WANT to apply it to.

[NewHampster]

122. Ok. You win

But this time I think the best woman should win.

:toast:

[jenmito]

127. Thanks...

but that's like me saying, "The best Black person should win."

[NewHampster]

131. but mine is a joke

joke Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - noun, verb, joked, jok·ing.
–noun
1. something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act: He tells very funny jokes. She played a joke on him.
2. something that is amusing or ridiculous, esp. because of being ludicrously inadequate or a sham; a thing, situation, or person laughed at rather than taken seriously; farce: Their pretense of generosity is a joke. An officer with no ability to command is a joke.
3. a matter that need not be taken very seriously; trifling matter: The loss was no joke.
4. something that does not present the expected challenge; something very easy: The test was a joke for the whole class.
5. practical joke.
–verb (used without object)
6. to speak or act in a playful or merry way: He was always joking with us.
7. to say something in fun or teasing rather than in earnest; be facetious: He didn't really mean it, he was only joking.
–verb (used with object)
8. to subject to jokes; make fun of; tease.
9. to obtain by joking: The comedian joked coins from the audience.

[jenmito]

135. Was your OP a joke?

I hope so.

[NewHampster]

137. Not at all

but now I have to go do a follow-up after the plow came down the street.

later

[jenmito]

141. OK. Well, for the record, then, your "joke" must've been serious.

[AlGore-08.com]

94. So... this is why Ann Coulter & Barbara Bush Sr. & Condi Rice are such huge Progressives?

Speaking as a woman - - and somebody who was raised a feminist by a feminist Mother - - your basic premise has been posited many times before. And even though it's emotionally satisfying to flip sexism on it's head (the culture tells me being a woman makes me less than men, but being a woman actually makes be better than men), it's not true that all women share a common political outlook or a common way of solving problems just because we're women.

Women are just as capable of misogynistic, or homophobic, or racist, or war mongering as men are. If all our decisions were based on an instinctive motherhood/nurturing drive, Hillary Clinton never would have voted for the IWR. She never would have voted to continue funding the war. She never would have said it's okay to use torture if there's a "ticking clock" scenario. Ever fiber of her being would have screamed out against the possibility that another living being could be injured or even killed as a result of these positions. She would have been physically unable to vote that way - - because her instinctive motherhood/nurturing drive would have stopped her.

[K Gardner]

132. BRAVO !! n/t

[NC_Nurse]

51. No. I don't agree. nt

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

55. No, I do not

Voting for a person based solely on gender (or skin color or religion) is not a thoughtful vote. I've looked at Sen. Clinton's stands on Iraq, health care, and torture, and I do not agree with them. That is why I will not vote for her in the primaries.

[Traps]

56. If Britney can play the Virgin Mary...

...then surely Hillary can be President!

http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2007/12/16/britney-spears-in-talks-to-play-the-virgin-mary-in-sweet-baby-jesus/

[Fovea]

58. I think Hillary will bring the same woman's touch to Murika

that Maggie Thatcher brought to England.

We do need Ms. Right to be president. But not Ms. Right-now.
I don't care about what the gender of my next president is.
I have desperation that whoever it is bring back the constitution, enact single payer universal health care, stop the drive to empire, re-employ and re-empower the working class economy, and screw the investor class so hard they never dick with American democracy again.

Hill does not say the right things to be that woman.

[amandabeech]

60. It's the person, not the gender, not the color, not the ethnicity.

I don't agree with your statement any more than I agree with any statements that African Americans should vote for Obama because of his color and nothing else.

I look forward to the first woman president, but I want to agree with her and be proud of her. That's not how I think about Sen. Clinton.

Personally, in my public life, I want to be judged as a person, not as a woman, although I can say that being older, I've had to overcome prejudices and a general lack of support that my male colleagues simply can't even comprehend. However "overcoming" is not limited to women or racial minorities.

And this business about motherhood and compassion . . . I know you mean well but your comment is so off base that I cannot address it politely.

[Happyhippychick]

64. Also wanted to add that the democratic field of candidates is very strong

and that has been a hinderance to Hillary. Her competition is fierce.

[leftchick]

66. a woman who wants eternal war

just like the neocons? No.

[Ewellian]

101. wow, I missed that in her policy statements.

I'll have to go back and reread.

[leftchick]

121. here you go

between the IWR vote she refuses to say was wrong, her Kyl-Lieberasshole vote and this, it is apparent she sides with the neocons....

<snip>

Now, make no mistake, Iran poses a threat to our allies and our interests in the region and beyond, including the United States. The Iranian president has held a conference denying the Holocaust and has issued bellicose statement after bellicose statement calling for Israel and the United States to be wiped off the map. His statements are even more disturbing and urgent when viewed in the context of the regime's quest to acquire nuclear weapons. The regime also uses its influence and resources in the region to support terrorist elements that attack Israel. Hezbollah's attack on Israel this summer, using Iranian weapons, clearly demonstrates Iran's malevolent influence even beyond its borders. We also have evidence, although it is by no means conclusive, of attacks using Iranian-supplied or manufactured weaponry against our own American soldiers. As I have long said and will continue to say, U.S. policy must be clear and unequivocal: We cannot, we should not, we must not permit Iran to build or acquire nuclear weapons. And in dealing with this threat, as I've also said for a long time, no option can be taken off the table.

http://www.senate.gov/~clinton/news/statements/record.cfm?id=269287

she sounds just like bush/cheney regarding Iran's supposed "threat". Hillary, The AIPAC Candidate!

:puke:

[MethuenProgressive]

68. The only female ObamaNation doesn't hate: Oprah

Barack Obama: The Misogynist Candidate.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

81. The only African American HillaryNation doesn't hate: Andrew Young

Hillary Clinton: The Racist Candidate.

That's about as stupid as what you just said.

[calteacherguy]

69. I want a woman to be President too, but I won't vote for a woman just because she is a woman. nt

[jenmito]

No way. Regarding her endorsement, one of the women from the DMR was on C-Span this morning

and said they chose her over Obama because she has the experience, she'd bring the world together by talking with other world leaders, and some other reasons while OBAMA is the one who said he'd meet with our enemies (unlike Hillary) and has about two decades of govt. experience (non-Washington experience). She dismissed the complaints by many callers that she supported the IWR and the K/L bill by saying voters would have to make up their minds about that. :eyes:

Hillary can't even control her husband. How can she run the country?

And no, we do NOT need THAT woman (Hillary) to be president. Are you serious that race doesn't affect one's empathy? I am a White woman who thinks we need OBAMA running this country. Not because he's Black, but because he's the best candidate to run this country.

[Arugula Latte]

70. Yes, we need a woman, but not THAT woman. nt

[Nimrod2005]

71. Get out of here PLEASE...No need to play the gender card here, HRC sucks BIG TIME!

[goodgd_yall]

84. Anytime gender discrimination comes up, it becomes a "card"

It's not a game, it's real life.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

75. "Motherhood affects ones empathy." Not necessarily.

Having a child does not magically transform every woman who does it. The so-called maternal instinct is one of the most pernicious and dangerous myths in all of human thought. While it's true that many women are deeply and profoundly changed for the better by the experience, it is equally true that many are not. If motherhood gave all women who did empathy there would not be so many abused and neglected children. No woman would ever stay with a man who abused her children, as so many do. No mother would ever support a war of aggression, yet throughout history many women who are mothers have supported such endeavors.

Margaret Thatcher has children. 'Nuff said.

[goodgd_yall]

76. If one is still undecided but has HRC under consideration

I'd say, YES, go with Hillary to break the white-male-as-ruler tradition in this country. We can't really say women have reached equality with men in this country until we have a woman in the highest office of the land.

[babylonsister]

92. Wow, you're stretching. Don't you think there are better reasons to

consider candidates instead of pitting them against each other due to their gender? I think an anti-war platform is a lot more important at this juncture in our country than the oneupsmanship you're suggesting. But good luck with that.

[goodgd_yall]

272. Where was there anything in what I said about pitting anyone against anyone?

This subject really causes people to have their emotions get in the way of their reading comprehension.

[NewHampster]

95. thak you for a reasonable reply

:kick:

[intheflow]

173. I don't believe simply having a woman in the WH will mean that women have achieved equality.

I believe that women will have achieved equality when they are equally represented in Congress and all other branches of government, the law, and the military.

Likewise, having a black, Latino, Asian, GLBTQ, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Native American, or physically impaired male or female in the WH won't mean equality has been achieved if the other branches of government don't reflect the true percentage of each sub-group of the national population.

Equality, especially in government, means equal access for all. Clinton has a head start on access to the WH because of her access to power--via Bill's presidency and her Senate career, yes, but also because she is white and has had a privileged education (Wellesley and Yale). How many other US women have access to that kind of power? Hardly any, percentage-wise. So equality will hardly be achieved just because a female is our national leader.

[goodgd_yall]

273. I did not say having a woman in the highest office of the land is the mark of true equality

My meaning was that we can't say we have reached true equality until we finally elect a female. There is a difference. If we believe women have reached the goal of equality with men yet we have never elected a woman president, then we have not yet reached equality. I'm not saying that once we elect a woman for president, we (women) have "made it."

And I'll add, to state the obvious, that I am talking about a female that supports women's rights (as opposed to electing Phyllis Schafly, for instance).

[loveangelc]

77. color and ethnicity can definitely effect the way you look at things in the world im sure

I am so tired of people saying we should vote for Hillary simply because she is a woman. I am female and do not agree with her on a number of issues? Am I a traitor to other women because of that? no. And please explain why American is not ready for a Black president but is ready for a woman President.

[NewHampster]

100. america is ready for a black president

I however support a White Woman.

My post is about those here who accuse the Des Moines Register editorial board of picking Hillary because they on the board are women. The sexists can't give those professionals their due based on intelligence and experience.

I will support Obama gladly if he wins the nomination.

I will not support those who dismiss Hillary because she is a woman.

[noamnety]

78. As much as I support affirmative action

I am not pulling a lever for someone who condones torture, votes for the continued use of landmines against children, votes for the continued use of cluster bombs, and votes to prohibit the United States from cooperating in any way with the International Criminal Court.

There is a serious disconnect between the idealistic platitude that "Motherhood affects ones empathy" and voting for this:

[Countdown_3_2_1]

82. Womanhood does NOT entitle Hillary to run the country.

Hillary can't even answer a tough unscripted question.
Obama and Edwards can. Hilary can't.
That bodes ill for innumerable press conferences a president must endure.

There are a lot of good women who never road their husband's coattails to power.
Let them run, But let them EARN their way.

When Hillary has a tough time, she trots out Bill. That tells me she can't hack it when the going gets tough.

Thank God, we are learning these things NOW before the primaries!

[nickinSTL]

85. I don't support Clinton...and it has nothing to do with her gender...

I don't support Clinton because, IMO, she is too pro-corporate, too moderate on many issues. Of course, I felt the same way about Bill Clinton.

I don't accept the argument that is often repeated about her having "experience" due to having been the wife of a President. Politically, she has some exposure to campaigns and she's served less than 2 terms as a Senator - that isn't a great wealth of experience. - again, this is my opinion - yours may vary.

That said, if she wins the nomination, I will vote for her in the general, because she's better by far than any of the Repubs.

If Barbara Boxer was running - THAT is a woman I'd vote for in the primary!

As to the DMR board...I also don't think that Clinton being a woman was why they chose her. I think her being pro-corporate was a plus, as well as her front-runner status - if they'd really wanted experience, they'd have gone with Biden, Dodd, Kucinich or Richardson. Her being a woman was almost certainly not a point against her for the endorsement, but I don't think it was a primary deciding factor, either.

[pansypoo53219]

86. as men are not the same, same with women.

hillary is to close to a THATCHER woman, i am not gonna vote for thatcher just because she is a woman.

[MrMickeysMom]

89. I'll answer this the same way I'd answer questions about the "Equal Rights Amendment"

... which was never passed, if you'll remember.

We really have equal rights, but they are not adhered to. Therefore, we try to act like the people who are in power. We need to wake up about this. We should perhaps face the problem that exists in America about sex and race. We have de facto sexism and racism, but we act like we don't.

I'm not willing to take part in games so that women runnign for president have to act like men who have been president, or men have to pander to their blackness or whiteness to be considered contenders for the presidency. I'm not willing to use anything more than competence for the office of the Presidency of the United States when seeing a person's sex or race. We just need to keep focusing that we are all equal, and forget all the other marketed bullshit. Then, they won't be playing games of pandering to corporatist or classes of the super rich, so we think they are "like the others". I'm getting tired of the others who fit the conventional wisdom of what a president should look like. I don't want my vote to be based on the contenders looking like the others, male or female. Black, white, yellow, brown, red- whatever.

When we have a competent candidate who happens to be a woman, I'll fight like Hell for her to win. Right now, I can't agree with that being the reason we need the current front runner.

[mtnsnake]

91. Bravo, NH, and Hillary Clinton is a good woman for the job

The anti-woman attitude around DU reminds me exactly of the same attitude displayed by Republican aquaintances that I know.

I think half of those nitwits might be posting here under the guise of Democrats.

[NewHampster]

96. are you sugessting there might be trolls on DU

perish the thought.

[Plausible]

97. How many American knuckle draggers are there out there

I find it appalling that in the year 2007 that the sex of the candidate is subject to so much discussion. TV talking heads ask with deep sincerity........are Americans ready for a woman president.

No, hell no, we'd rather drag our knuckles like cave persons. I saw one of them on the evening news. He lives in South Carolina and when asked on camera if he would vote for an African-American, he said no way could one get elected...no women either he added.

Other countries don't seem to have a issue with it........Germany, UK, and others.

But, in the land of the free and the home of the brave, only white males do not have to defend their ability to serve as president. Like that idiot in the White House now.

[Nedsdag]

98. Of course we're ready for a woman president.

To be totally honest, if Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm wasn't born in Canada, SHE would be the front runner for the first woman president.

She's young, vibrant, attractive, and charismatic; however, she wasn't born in this country.

[slackmaster]

99. It's time for someone who is qualifed to be President to be elected President

I don't care about race, gender, or other personal traits over which a person has no control.

[NewHampster]

102. Exactly

[flvegan]

107. Gotta be kidding me.

Nothing to do with gender. Has to do with being a crappy candidate.

[williesgirl]

108. Conceptually I agree w/you, but not THIS woman. I'm an early-on feminist but can't

vote for someone who won't support our Constitution, wno will probably be the one to pardon our current criminal-in-chief, continue the Iraq war, continue letting corporations rape this country, etc. rec'd

[NewHampster]

110. Conceptually is all I can ask for

just don't accuse the professionals in Des Moines of supporting Hillary because of her gender.

[ecstatic]

149. I would think most feminists would jump at this opportunity

Are you supporting someone who was opposed to the war from the beginning? Or doing a double standard thing?

[progressoid]

111. That's why I supported Elizabeth Dole in 2000.

Because she was a WOMAN. Never mind her politics or her party affiliation. I wanted someone with a little estrogen in the White House.
.

.

.

.

.

.

NOT!!

[IndyOp]

112. Okay, then! I want Barbara Bush to be President!

It's time for a woman to run the White House!

Gender is not like color. Gender does affect attitude, Motherhood affects ones empathy.

Barbara Bush is a woman and we need a woman running this country.

Your grandmother ran the house.
Your mother ran the house.
Your wife sure does run your house.
Do you agree?

I don't. I want lots more women in government. I don't want Hillary as President.

Barbara Bush (Queen Mother) does not think about the world the same way your wife, your mom, or your grandmother.

In my opinion, Hillary does not think like women who I admire.

Gender can affect attitude. Many of the Iroquois nations only allowed women to vote on the most important issues that affected the nation, because women are more likely to be able to keep in mind the impact of decisions on the next seven generations.

Gender, however, does not necessarily affect attitude or empathy. Hillary Clinton has been immersed in an elitist culture in Washington that has, in my opinion, a much, much, much bigger impact on her thinking than her gender.

It is just not reasonable to concentrate on one or a few traits of another individual and then think/feel as if we know them because we fill in what we don't know about them using traits of people who we know well and think are similar.

[Occam Bandage]

114. "I'm sick of sexism. Let's choose our support based on gender."

[dkf]

116. You think I don't like Hillary because I hate my gender?

Yikes. You have got to be kidding!

I dislike her because I think she is insincere and opaque and I don't trust her.

[MissDeeds]

117. This lady does not agree

I want the best candidate to win the White House, regardless of race, gender, sexual preference, or religion (or lack thereof). I find it disconcerting that you state "One of my first reasons for supporting Clinton is the fact that she is a woman". Surely, with the country in turmoil, there are other more critical issues to first consider than one's gender.

[vanboggie]

119. Only the right woman, and she's not

This old libber is supporting John Edwards. Hillary has sold out.

[ChiciB1]

120. I COMPLETELY Agree With The ""Woman" Thing... But NOT This Woman!

Hillary's birthday is one day after mine, and I was thrilled at one time that she was going to run. Many of my friends who know how political I am "knew" she would be who I supported. But as time went by I began to see and think differently.

I came to realize that my yearning for a woman president was my only focus and I didn't look any further than that. As I scratched the surface a little I didn't like what I was seeing even IF it was a woman. Then I looked deeper and REALIZED that for me, Hillary Clinton only represented the "female factor" to me. Simply because she's female doesn't mean she's the best candidate, and unfortunately she's now last on my list! Plus, I'm not the only one in my crowd who has come to see it this way.

I just don't feel comfortable with her anymore and I can remember watching her when she was defending herself about her "futures stock" on National TV, she was wearing a pink outfit and I was appalled that she even had to sit and be questioned about this. I thought MSM was picking on her because she was a woman and "first lady" which was probably true. But in the time since then, my respect for her has fallen.

It's not only her positions on certain issues, but on other big FACTOR! As a woman who was confronted with a husband who strayed, I decided that instead of looking the other way I would stand my ground come hell or high water! After several months of thinking, I decided to divorce him. He was really shocked but I stuck by my decision. Hillary Clinton could have easily divorced Bill Clinton after his presidency and I don't think it would have hurt her, but she didn't. She still would have won in NY I'm sure, but she DID "stand by her man!" She had enough money, education and opportunity than I EVER had, but I think she calculated that staying with Bill would benefit her MORE if and when she ran for President. I don't respect that.

As for my husband, we were divorced for over 10 years, we saw each other throughout that time as well as others, but we are now remarried! Because of what I did I think he respects me more now, and even though you can NEVER say NEVER... well you know!

[NewHampster]

123. but many other women respect Hillary for

sticking by her man when he was down. The situation cannot be compared to your divorce.

Theirs was a public straying that required a strong woman to slap the jerk to his senses in private and defend him in public.

[ChiciB1]

129. I SAID... After He Left The WH... It Would Have Been Just Fine To

leave him and say "enough is enough!" I KNOW mine was a "run of the mill" ordinary person type thing, but SHE was the one who had stated early on that she wasn't going to just "stand by her man and bake cookies" so you'll have to sell that to someone else.

[Sparkly]

203. How is it at all relevant? nt

[ChiciB1]

211. I'm Not Asking YOU To Find It Relevant... If It Doesn't Bother You Or

you don't think it's important when she wanted to be seen as a strong independent woman, one who felt a need to say she wasn't a woman who was going to stay home and bake cookies, then looking the other way when the Clinton/Lewinsky matter hit the fan, looking back I question her motives.

You have a right to see it differently... I just voiced my opinion.

[Sparkly]

215. How do you see it as relevant to her potential as a president? nt

[ChiciB1]

274. Just Wanted To Let You Know That I HAD NO Idea That My Comments

about the Clinton marriage would be the subject of a new post! I don't think I've ever even responded to the poster since I've been at DU!

And I just checked in here for today, so I DON'T know what it refers to. My comments were my "personal" observations about why I had less respect for Hillary because she stayed with Bill. It COULD be love, but for me it was more about how a person respects themselves and whether they would stand up for themselves. I found it relevant because if she didn't want to stand up to him, I wondered about other decisions she might make.

[William769]

124. K&R!

[uppityperson]

125. I'm ready for someone to be elected that is decent.

I wish I liked Sen Clinton's stances better. I really do, since she is female and I wish that the position of President were open to all people (even to people without money or connections). But I don't like her politics. Will vote for her if she gets the nomination, but don't like her for whom she is, nothing to do with her genes.

[Vinca]

133. Yes, it is time for a woman president. How about Barbara Boxer? nt

[Franc_Lee]

134. It's time for a Woman Prseident? ---> maybe but that woman president is not Hillary Clinton

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

180. Are you suggesting Barack get a sex-change? n/t

[Diane R]

136. I'm a woman, and you don't speak for me. Neither does Hillary.

[NewHampster]

138. I didn't try to speak for you

I just try to speak for one of the women who has fought her entire life to give you the right.

[Caseman]

139. You're sexist...

...if you think everyone that hates Hilary is sexist themselves. People do actually judge candidates by their résumé, ya know? You shouldn't vote someone just because they are the first woman or first African-American. You should choose who is best equipped to solve our nation's problems. My choice: Joe Biden.

[havocmom]

140. Agree about time for a woman president. Disagree that HRC is the woman for the job

[Rock_Garden]

142. Go get 'em, Hampster! Yeah!

[jefferson_dem]

143. Wow. Hillary apologists have been relegated to this?!

We need a woman president and people who oppose Hillary are anti-women?

Lame desperation.

[NewHampster]

160. people who oppose the possibility of a woman

are the ones I get pissed at. and people who have said things like a black person deserves it first.

Nobody deserve it because of race, gender or anything other than their brains.

[bobbolink]

144. HAHAHA! One has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other!

Nope, can't pull that one.

[venable]

147. so, vote for her because she's a woman? no thanks.

if one doesn't like hrc, that doesn't mean one is anti-woman. frankly, I'm sorry I even honored the OP with a response. let's grow up.

[ecstatic]

148. I agree that her gender IS a valid reason, and I do think it's time

Seriously. And when will we get this chance again?

[NewHampster]

156. maybe not in our life time

[hisownpetard]

150. I would certainly not choose a candidate simply because she is a woman. That's a pretty shallow

basis for deciding on something as important as this.

What if the only woman running for President were Ann Coulter? Britney Spears? Nancy Grace?

[Kucinich4America]

152. I don't care if the Virgin Mary herself was on the ballot

If she was WRONG on the issues, she would not get my vote.

It has nothing to do with her being a woman, or a mother, or my mother, or any other mothers, except the mother-fucking DLC which is a cancer on this party.

[NewHampster]

161. For a giggle about Mary you should read this at dKos

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/12/13/192025/04

Silent F&*king Night

As I've wallowed in Christmas music the last couple of weeks, I've pondered the traditions of the Christmas story; and I've come to a conclusion.

Mary was shafted.

There she is, 8+ months pregnant, having been dragged all over to Israel on the back of a fucking donkey. I know that when I was 8 months pregnant, I had a hard time riding for two hours in a car to attend my father-in-law's funeral.

And men just do not understand how often one has to pee when there's a baby sitting on one's bladder, especially when one is being jiggled by travel. Do you think Joseph cheerfully stopped every 15 minutes for a potty break, heaving Mary on and off the donkey with nary a complaint? I mean, he didn't even get the fun of the conception. That had to have had an effect on his equanimity during the pregnancy.

it gets much better

One of the most hilarious threads I've ever read.

[Kucinich4America]

162. Yes indeed, that is a classic.

It would be great if someone posted that over at Freeperland just to get their reaction :evilgrin:

[NewHampster]

164. they'd probably burn the op at the stake

[watercolors]

153. THANK YOU!

TES it is time, and she is the best we have. my husband agrees, we have made our choice. My husband has the same attitude as you. I run a business , the house, and keep family in line whether it is children or grandchildren.

[NewHampster]

158. and I bet you do it with love rather than a paddle

we stupid men seem to always resort to hitting even if it's a love tap.

[hisownpetard]

243. So you're saying that you're a stupid man who hits his kids with a paddle?

[Hieronymus]

154. A woman doesn't deserve it just because she's a woman ..

[NewHampster]

159. True But she doesn't deserve not to get it for the same reason

Just because she has a shrill woman's voice or can get crabby over nothing.

[MasonJar]

163. I agree that it is time to give the women a chance because the men have

not done very well in the last 7 years (euphemism for they have stunk.)

[NewHampster]

165. When exactly have we done such a good job?

[intheflow]

176. Men wrote the Constitution.

While they didn't get it right, they wrote in the ability to expand freedom from tyranny for all oppressed peoples. In spite of the fact the Chimperor and his minions and Congress have almost all completely ignored it these past 7 years, in spite of the fact that we still have centuries to go (probably) before we come close to an truly equal society, it's still a great document with great intent.

[NewHampster]

195. One of Jefferson's female slaves probably wrote the thing

[Forkboy]

166. I agree! Maxine Waters '08!!!!!!

[Beacool]

167. NewHampster, is not so much her womanhood that some here despise,

it's the fact that she's not liberal enough for them. I guess that they want another failed presidency like Carter's. Why did Bill win twice and was the only Democrat to do so since FDR? Because he was a centrist, neither a conservative nor in the left wing of the party. To the left she's not pure enough and to the right she's a socialist. Whatever...........

[NobleCynic]

172. And look all the good Bill Clinton did for the left

We ran a centrist, and got watered down compromise after sellout after compromise for eight long years. They were stable years, but nothing I'd call progress was made. At the end of the day, it was a placeholder presidency. Not a big surprise, but it was strategic. All that centrism helped the party win more seats so we would do better next time, right? Right?

Except for the small little fact that we steadily lost seats in Congress throughout the Clinton years as well. Yea centrism!

[gmudem]

168. Terrible reasoning

If I liked Clinton's policies and actions I would support her. But I don't. It has nothing to do with her being a woman and has everything to do with her positions, some of which I find detestable.

Grow up newhampster. Supporting someone just because of their sex is unbelievably stupid.

[NewHampster]

171. sheesh

If I grow up anymore I'll be dead.

[gmudem]

175. I'm just trying to help you realize

The complete and utter absurdity of your argument. Hope I helped.

[mitchum]

177. The Ovarian Candidate!

[juajen]

178. Yes, I do agree!

Women are multi-taskers of necessity and common sense is their forte, also, of necessity. We are extremely protective of the children we bring into this world; that is, most of us, and wars will not be for monetary gain with a mother in charge. Note, I did say mother. I believe motherhood brings out protective instincts, which are necessary if you're planning a war that will kill thousands. I know there are exceptions to this rule, as in all things, but I believe Hillary was an exemplary mother and will want to leave a better planet for her child

[riqster]

179. It'd be awesome to have a woman in the Oval Office

...and if she gets the nod, I'll happily cast a vote for her. Historic.

[NewHampster]

183. and Bill decorating the Blue Room

[riqster]

184. Oh man, so many punch lines, so little time nt

[sjdnb]

181. I want the best PERSON doing what they do best

No matter what their gender or sexual orientation or ethnic background.

And, I don't need anyone (including the DMR, the Boston Globe, Oprah, Bill, etc.) telling me who or who not to vote for.

I can read
I can hear
I can research
I can analyze
I can make up my own mind, thank you very much!

The whole idea that the backing of celebrities, newspapers, other politicians, or anyone else should sway anyone's vote, insults the intelligence of voters and diminishes the process.

[ginchinchili]

186. Only the Des Moines Register's editorial staff knows for sure.

However, my suspicions stem from the fact that the strengths Hillary has Biden has tenfold minus the baggage. Had Joe Biden been Josephine Biden I don't only feel sure that the DMR would have endorsed her, but "she'd" be the front runner of the Democratic primary. Imagine, a woman with Joe Biden's experience and expertise. Hillary Clinton is a divisive figure in American politics. If Biden was a woman she'd get the nod over Hillary because "she" would have much more relevant experience and "she" could bring this country together,i.e., no divisiveness. You can spin it any way you choose, but Joe Biden is the most qualified candidate in this race, hands down.

[NewHampster]

190. I love Joe but he has Foot in Mouth disease n/t

[ginchinchili]

205. It's called speaking honestly and unscripted.

I'm so sick of the meaningless filtered gibber that flows so scripted and so freely from the mouths of our politicians. Perhaps you prefer the rehearsed answers that Hillary recites when one of her planted audience members asks her a prepared question. Didn't you get enough of that from Bush? The foot in mouth disease is a myth and an excuse to dismiss Biden because it can't be done legitimately. He's the only candidate who actually talks to us and informs us in detail. He doesn't talk down to us or rely on plugged in slogans and platitudes. Genuine leaders like Sen. Biden are becoming increasingly rare because people like yourself prefer hearing the campaign-generated politico speak that tells you just what you want to hear. We're becoming a generic nation full of generic people who think generic thoughts. What a damn shame.

[JVS]

188. Well maybe if that empathetic and motherly assclown would quit being a warmonger, I'd agree

but that's not in the cards, so to hell with it.

[Sparkly]

191. NONE of the Democratic candidates are "warmongers."

Criticisms like that are just over the top.

[JVS]

193. Thanks for you opinion. I'll be sure to pass it on to someone who gives a shit.

[Sparkly]

199. Thank you.

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

194. Way to flip-flop on the to alert or not to alert issue!

:thumbsup:

[MrSlayer]

196. Because I'm anti-Clinton does not make me anti-women.

I want the best person in the White House and I do not believe that person is Mrs. Clinton. Ideally Kucinich would be the one but since he's too Democratic even for the Democratic party I'm backing Edwards. Personally, I don't care if the next 10 Presidents are women as long as they are the right person for the job. But I also wouldn't care if a woman never gets to be President. The genitalia of the President is as unimportant to me as the skin color.

[Sparkly]

198. It's been a real eye-opener to see "progressives" parroting from the stale old lexicon

of double standards.

If she's ambitious, she's "power-hungry."
If her speech is low-keyed, she's "smug."
If her speech is impassioned, she's "shrill."
If she refers to her womanhood, she's "playing a card."
If she refers to her husband, she's "using" him.
If she's serious, she's "unlikeable."
If she laughs, she "cackles."
If she's confident, she's "imperious."
If she's strong, she's "aggressive."
If she wants to win, she's "self-interested."
If she campaigns to win, she'll "do anything" to win.
If she's soft, she's "phony."
If she's hard, she's a "bitch."
If she refers to a kitchen, she's "milking it."
If she refers to her career, she's "inflating it."
If she refers to her marriage in a positive way, she's avoiding the "problem with Bill."
If she refers to her marriage in a negative way, she's "playing victim."

And on and on and on...

[NewHampster]

200. copied to desktop for future reference

It is amazing isn't it?

[Sparkly]

202. I saw a lot of the same things done to Geraldine Ferraro

but didn't think I'd see it HERE.

Nor did I think I'd see a regurgitation of all the crap thrown at her since the early 1990s (or before), repeated as though it were all new and considered and original observations.

She's not perfect, but none of them are imho. The yardstick is just completely different for her than for the others -- that's what amazes me. They are just not all that different on policy positions.

She's also done better than I expected at navigating all the double-standards, avoiding a lot of the common pitfalls for women -- yet still getting a lot of the rap.

[NewHampster]

204. She is one heck of a woman who will make us proud

:thumbsup:

[ZombieHorde]

206. It is time for a short President!

Being short gives a physical and mental view that is different from non short views. It is time for Kucinich!

[hayu_lol]

207. Some years ago, Shirley Chisholm ran for the presidency...

I would have gladly backed her then--she dropped out. At the same time here in this country, we had Barbara Jordan--one of the brightest political minds and one of the finest orators we have ever had. She never ran for the presidency.

Someone already mentioned Geraldine Ferraro...she dropped out because of her husband's connections.

We have a large number of candidates this time around--a batch comprised, not of perfect candidates, but of people who have chosen to run. Our choice is restricted to these few only.

We could have had better candidates. Our job is to select the one candidate we feel is the best all-around candidate. Best of all, this time around, we do have a choice between women and men, whites and blacks. Some of us feel this is progress.

Hampster, thanks for starting this one. The old grumps are still with us but their tone is getting desperate, their rhetoric strained.

For me, for this election, my choice is Hillary.

[NewHampster]

219. Yes!

[DrFunkenstein]

208. Woman Ain't Got Nothing to Do With It

She has a proven record of hawkishness, secrecy, disdain for open media, unethical conduct, selling out liberalism (and fellow Democrats) for personal gain, and a general misunderstanding of how to prosecute a war on global extremism. She supports empowering the executive branch even further than Bush did - now that's saying something.

That has all to do with her personal record and judgment. That is before you even get to the way that her presence would hurt Congressional Democrats as it gives new vigor to washed up conservatives.

[laureloak]

209. You make me ashamed of being a woman.

A real woman would vote on the best candidate regardless of sex. She would NEVER give her vote to someone just because they're female. How utterly air-headed.

[Mother Of Four]

212. I'll tell you what ticks me off...

(Disclaimer: This is my opinion, only my opinion, and not meant to force my opinion on anyone else)

Is the fact that (to me) you are looking at her gender instead of her as a candidate. My husband and I see alot of ugly and horrible things done by mothers to their children and I find it deeply offensive that you would make a blanket statement that just because she's had a child...she has empathy.

First article googled...

Less than three days ago
http://www.ksat.com/news/14828205/detail.html

See, this story is about a mother who was so empathic and compassionate to her child she would do anything to stop her from crying. Including smothering her.

I'm a mom myself, and I know you probably think I should find it a compliment. While I do appreciate the fact that you support women, especially mothers. That's not what I'm getting at -- I'm getting at stereotypes.

Now...in case you've never read one of my posts. I don't support HRC, I don't want to vote for her...and I don't like her. So please don't take this standing up for her, and against the sexism, support for her as a candidate - they are two separate issues.

IMHO posts like this are just as sexist as the ones attacking her for gender, and need to stop. I don't care if someone has dangly bits, or not. I don't care if they wear lipstick and perfume....and I don't care if they wear high heels. (No...I don't support Rudy Ghouliani...sorry had to toss some humor in here)

Anti woman, Anti man...Anti race, social standing, religion, sexuality. Any time you force someone into a stereotype you are doing the same thing you accuse others of. Good OR bad.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

214. Agree completely. See my post #75

This idea that women who have children are magically transformed into altruistic and omnipotent saints is probably the biggest reason that at-risk mothers don't get the support they need to properly care for their children (or have them removed if need be) and end up smothering them or leaving them to be abused and/or murdered by their partners.

I'm the biggest feminist in the world and I'm all for a woman President and for women to have the opportunity to lead at all levels, as men always have, but PLEASE don't base it on biological essentialist bullshit like the "maternal instinct". Not only does it pigeon-hole and stereotype, but it perpetuates a dangerously flawed assumption about the decisions of a woman leader.

[Mother Of Four]

217. Scrolled up and re-read it....

Quoting you here "The so-called maternal instinct is one of the most pernicious and dangerous myths in all of human thought."

Whole heartedly agree with your comments on making it that much harder to help mothers in need, or the children from mothers who abuse.

Any stereotype is bad - To qualify...each person should be weighed and measured as an INDIVIDUAL...not a gender, sexualtiy, social standing, or race. Thank you for responding :)

[NMMNG]

213. Voting *for* a candidate because she's a woman

is just as bad as voting against a candidate because she's a woman.

[joshcryer]

235. No, it's not. One is progressive. I'll leave it to you to figure out which.

[NMMNG]

270. I've figured it out already

Voting for a woman just because she's a woman is not progressive. It's foolish.

You may be willing to vote for a candidate because of her gender to make some sort of a statement but I'm not. I'm going to vote for who I think will be the best president.

[PurityOfEssence]

220. How DARE they not accept your superiority.

The Beasts.

[krkaufman]

221. "Mother affects ones empathy"... just ask Margaret Thatcher.

Gotta agree that it is presumptive to say that the DMR endorsed Clinton because they're all women; but it's equally presumptive to think Hillary Clinton should be elected because she's a woman, possessing of all the positive traits one might associate with motherhood.

If your grandmother, mother or wife both voted for the IWR and showed no growth of experience in then also voting for the Kyl-Lieberman amendment, I wouldn't want them running the country, either.

[joshcryer]

225. I was going to write a post like this closer to the primaries.

Glad someone beat me to it.

We need a woman President.

[NewHampster]

279. It can't get too much closer with that weird holiday ruining next week

Iowa 1/3
NH 1/8

[OneBlueSky]

226. "because she is the best person for the job." . . .

that is strictly a matter of opinion -- and on with which I vehemently disagree . . .

[eridani]

228. I want a candidate who is not backed by the defense industry

That leaves Clinton way out of it.

[Raine]

229. No I don't agree

what we need is a good leader. I wouldn't exclude either a woman or a man, it just has to the best person for the job.

[caseycoon]

230. I will vote for any candidate

who stands for what I believe in. Race & gender are immaterial. Mrs. Clinton does not stand for much of anything I want to see in a candidate, so no, it is not time for a woman in WH.

[Andromeda]

231. I agree, NH

I happen to believe she's the most qualified also but the fact she is a woman is just icing on the cake.

[NewHampster]

277. Chocolate devils food

[ellisonz]

233. My mother has a mental illness.

Her maternal instict went right out the window...

The OP is crap.

[joshcryer]

236. Strawman much?

Seriously? WTF does that even mean? The only substance here is the implication that Hillary is "mentally ill," otherwise your comments are completely without merit. And certainly you wouldn't say you were calling her mentally ill, would you?

[ellisonz]

238. Jesus Christ, find a new rhetorical tactic!

Read the thread and my post again. I'm simply saying that "motherhood" doesn't make a fucking difference because it is not your gender that absolutely defines who and what you are in this world. Your actions more often than not in America do that for you these days.

The Clintons are not what America, much less the Democratic Party needs right now for a number of reasons. I did not call Hillary Clinton mentally ill.

Dude, I love reefer as much as the next guy, but slowly put down the pipe:eyes:

[Name removed]

269. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ellisonz]

276. Ignore.

You never post anything of any substance and just make snarky, rude, insulting posts.

[MadHound]

234. Fine, find me a woman I can support other than Hillary

I find your call of sexism, on a progressive board, disingenuous at best. The vast majority of people here, Hillary supporters and detractors alike, believe in womans' rights and aren't sexist. There are simply many people here who can't stand Hillary for her policies not her sex.

Yet the sexism card is getting played a lot around here, accusing people who don't like Hillary sexist, posts like yours, etc. You need to stop. think about what you're saying and where you're saying it, and then at least be intellectually honest with yourself.

Oh, and painting with such a broad brush is bad form also.

[NewHampster]

244. I'm sorry if you do not approve

but I stick by my reasons for supporting the best woman for the job.

[MadHound]

253. Then you are indeed as being just as sexist as any MCP

You claim that your primary reason for voting for Hillary is because she is a woman is evidence of that. Voting for somebody based on their sex makes you a sexist person, much like voting for a person based on their race would make one a racist.

It is time that we got past such limited thinking and started voting for the best person for the job no matter their sex, race, religion, etc. If all you want is a woman in office let me, guess, you supported Elizabeth Dole's run back in 2000, right?

Sorry, but I'm not going to support Hillary, either in the primaries or the general elections. It isn't because she's a woman(and truly, I really dare you to accuse of me sexism). It is because she has repeatedly stated that she'll be keeping combat troops in Iraq, and the fact that she is bought and paid for by corporate America. Those are reasons of policy, not sexism.

You're ongoing attempt to smear those of us who don't support Hillary by labeling, or at least implying, all of us as sexists is flat out wrong, and sadly illustrates the depth to which Hillary and her campaign will stoop. You are but the latest to try this little trick, and it didn't play well before you came along, and it isn't going to play well this time. You are being insulting and abusive, disingenuous and well, sexist. I suggest that if you really want to help your candidate that you try another tactic, this one is old, worn, and still offensive as ever.

[NewHampster]

254. I don't think I said it was my primary reason

one of my primary reasons.

#1 I want to win this time
#2 We need a woman in the WH to clean up after the boys (sexist and I admit it)
#3 She is the most qualified to deal with world problems on day one
#4 She has been working for children and health care all her adult life and truly understands
#5 Her approach to global warming through an Apollo type mission will also create new US industries that are not outsourced until they become commodities, and create many many jobs at home.
#6 Ditto for the opening up and belief in science to create solutions, new industries and jobs.

[MadHound]

261. My bad, it is only one of your primary reasons. Still rather sexist though

Sorry, but voting for anybody because of their gender is sexist, and quite frankly it is wrong to do so. It is just as bad as that attitude which you decry, voting against Hillary because she is a woman. Congratulations, you are becoming that which you hate.

As to your list well,:

1. Frankly any Democrat in the race can win the general election at this point, which is why we have a wonderful opportunity to but a true progressive, a true liberal into office. Hillary does not fit that bill
2. Sexism run rampant friend, and like I said, you're becoming that which you hate.
3. How do you term qualified? She has been in public office for less time than many of her competitors. Even if you add in her years as First Lady there are still many of her competitors that have more experience than she does.
4. Some of Hillary's "work" has been things like voting for NCLB, and support of "free" trade agreements that are ruining our country and bringing poverty to families and children. Her health care program includes a big tax giveaway to the health insurance industry, is still based on for profit insurance, and could very well be mandatory, requiring one to present proof of insurance before you get a job. There are others out there who do support a real single payer UHC health care, which is what this country needs.
5. I would suggest that you go check out her donor list, and note how she is being heavily subsidized by big oil and big coal. She may be talking a good game, but I doubt that she'll have much more than a token follow through. Besides, the fact that she is willing to continue the illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq throughout her first term is clear evidence that she too will continue our empire of oil under her administration. If you're looking for a clean, green energy policy that would truly redefine this country and bring about the paradigm shift we need, I suggest that you go elsewhere.
6. As for belief in science to create solutions, new industries and jobs, I think that can be said about most any Democratic candidate. The sad fact about Hillary is that she could very well do what her husband did, who outsourced the tech boom. I know, I know, Hillary is not Bill. However I think that this criticism is still fair, for they think very much alike, and she is indeed running partially on her husband's past achievements.

Which brings us back to Iraq, and Hillary's ongoing support for that illegal, immoral occupation. Do you also support that?

I think that if you would get your head out of this sexist mode of thinking that you're into right now, you would find a candidate who better fits what your expectations are. Of course that candidate would be a male, and since you've stated that one of your primary reasons for voting for Hillary is because she's a female. Strange how sexists, and racists, and other sorts of -ists get themselves bound up into an uncomfortable corners all because of their prejudices. Perhaps it is time for you to shed yours and take a look at Hillary with fresh eyes. Perhaps you should ask yourself if you could support a candidate who would continue the war and the ongoing corporate sellout if that candidate was a man. If not, then perhaps it is time for your to look elsewhere besides Hillary.

[NewHampster]

263. can't look elsewhere

I am a confirmed and working volunteer for Hillary in NH.

I phone bank, canvass every weekend, write letters to the editor and ;-) blog alot.

[MadHound]

266. Can't, or won't?

Are you being physically held captive by the Hillary campaign? Somehow I doubt that. So the answer is that you "won't" look elsewhere. Why? Are you so bound up in your desire for a woman president, any woman no matter their positions or record, that you will blindly adhere yourself to their campaign to the exclusion of all others, even though it is not in your self interest or the country's best interest? You know, that is what the religious right has done for a couple of decades now, and here you are, following a similar path.

Are you willing to continue sacrificing our soldiers and innocent civilians all so that you can say we have a woman president? Are you truly willing to put that loss of lives on the alter of Hillary's ambition? All because she is a woman? If so, then you are no better than Hillary herself, a warmonger, a war enabler, and one whose actions result in the loss of innocent lives. Congratulations, you have become that which you hate, all in pursuit of your blind, sexist ambition. My friends and family over in Iraq thank you, NOT!

[enough already]

239. Maggie Thatcher....WOMAN!

Yeah, let's just elect any woman because that's what we need.

*sheesh*

[momto3]

240. Well..no.

I'd love to see a woman in the White House, but it would need to be someone that represents my values. I will not support someone simply based on their gender.

Peace.

[Greenwood]

241. Disagree. We need the BEST PERSON running the country.....

Period.

[antigop]

245. We need a woman running this country.. then I'll vote for my Mom! n/t

[antigop]

246. at least my Mom would protect our jobs. n/t

[NewHampster]

255. Hillary will create new jobs

My reasons for supporting this woman

#1 I want to win this time
#2 We need a woman in the WH to clean up after the boys (sexist and I admit it)
#3 She is the most qualified to deal with world problems on day one
#4 She has been working for children and health care all her adult life and truly understands
#5 Her approach to global warming through an Apollo type mission will also create new US industries that are not outsourced and create many many jobs at home in these new industries.
#6 Ditto for the opening up and belief in science to create solutions, new industries and jobs.

[antigop]

256. oh, brother! That was really funny! Thanks for the laugh! N/t

[antigop]

257. Hillary doesn't give a SHIT about our jobs. Thanks again for the opportunity to post these videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)

[antigop]

258. My Mom will keep OUR jobs. I'll vote for my Mom. Thanks. n/t

[crawfish]

247. I'm not anti-woman

...but I am anti-Hillary. The ONLY thing that makes her a viable candidate is her gender.

[L0oniX]

248. I'm a man so I can't answer. n/t

[durrrty libby]

249. Indeed there is way too much testosterone in the WH

Time for it to go

[NewHampster]

250. hi Jacoby Fan

I just hope theo keeps him.

http://eonlinedevelopment.com/smiley/Smiley%20Legend%20-%20The%20Ultimate%20Collection!%20Courtesy%20of%20Buffenuff_com_files/clap.gif

[durrrty libby]

252. He better . We need the young talent to bloom, and they

infuse extra excitement into the team.

[Forrest Greene]

251. Magda Goebbels 4Evah! n/t

[endarkenment]

259. gender is way down on my priority of reasons to vote for/against a candidate

in fact, while I think it would be nice to give somebody other than a white man a shot, neither race or gender affect my conscious decision making process. That said, I could of course be an unconscious bigot who chooses candidates for completely superficial reasons like race or gender or ethnicity or religion or hairstyle or accent or any number of other idiotic horse race reasons.

I want a progressive democrat in the white house. That is my top priority.

[syberlion]

262. As someone who grew up with 4 older sisters...

Each one has their own specific personality. Two became mothers and the other two lead very productive lives. One is active in her community as a democratic chair and I've encouraged her to run for local office in her community. She's not taken me up on that challenge, yet.

I have a unique perspective on this thread. The issue here isn't so much whether we need a woman vs. a man, the issue here is we need the right woman vs. the wrong man. Researching and reading multiple sources regarding the candidates, one gets the impression that this woman tends to favor the status quo. The system is fine and we can work with the system how it currently is. If you believe that, then certainly, this is your candidate.

However, if you believe the system is tilted in favor of big business, the special interests, insurance, pharmacological and defense contractors, then you may need to look elsewhere in the field of candidates.

When Reagan ran, he won by telling America, everything is all right, we are fine and you have nothing to worry about. Why, let's cut taxes and everything will fix itself, you'll see...

America is in trouble, politically, economically, philosophically. America, in general, doesn't want to know it's in trouble. "Read my lips..." and the resulting taxes got King George the first de-throned. So, America thinks the infrastructure it takes to run this country doesn't take any monetary contribution from them to run. The reality is quite difference as demonstrated by the major bridge collapse in Minnesota.

Bridges are only a small part of the big picture. They just aren't the classy dressed-up part of the picture. The reality is while Prince George is handing out government money to his buddies, America is physically falling apart. How can we be "nation building" when our own are crumbling down around us? It was radical thought that brought us back almost 80 years ago and for those 80 years those who were rudely thrown out of the halls of congress have worked on getting their people and their laws passed so they could rule again. The American people are now on the outside looking in and it's freezing outside.

Worse still, is some of those asking for our vote are saying we can work with the system we have. Yeah, let the lobbyist and the big money interest write the laws. Ok, so re-write the constitution to say "We the Corporations of the Global Economy, in Order to form a more perfect golden parachute, establish judicial loop-holes, insure international profit margins, provide for the common defense of our assets, promote the corporate welfare system and secure the blessings of the ultra-rich to themselves and only their posterity, do ordain and force this constitutions on all the unrepresented of those serfs living in the United States of America."

So, unless this illegal administration has re-written the constitution, it still reads "We the People..." and as one of those people it is not about gender, it is not about race, it is about who is willing to take the reins of this country and stop this head-long charge to oblivion. That will take someone willing to fly in the face of the current system, someone willing to take the oath of office and protect and defend the constitution, not work within this current corrupted system.

One quick note about motherhood. As someone who was a foster parent, speaking with young children and young teens, there are many parents out there not fit to raise children. So, just basing a choice on someone becoming a mother, without knowing the full story, is not a logical reason to choose a candidate. I've seen the results of poor parenting and it was heart-breaking. This is in no way a comment of the parenting skills of any of the candidates, just an observation about making a choice based on incomplete information.

I've read each of the candidate's web sites, discussed with persons around me, read various news sources (including those offered by DU) and that's how I am reaching my choice. I have narrowed my choices down and once I've decided I will volunteer, support and do what I can to help that choice to become the next leader of this country.

When the right truly progressive woman comes along, she will get my support. Is Oprah running yet?

[redqueen]

264. I'm a woman and I do not agree. (nt)

[sojourner]

265. This election is too damn important to base on gender. Yes, women are powerful,

but I'll never choose a President just because she's a female.

I'm going with Edwards because he is going to do the things that I want done.

[rateyes]

267. I have a dream that one day my daughters will be judged by

the content of their character, and not on the fact they have vaginas.

[bean fidhleir]

268. Then support Cynthia. She's liberal - Hillary isn't (nt)

[Vickers]

275. Voting for someone simply because they are a woman makes as

much sense as voting for someone because they are a man.

[martymar64]

278. You're right! Maxine Waters for President!!!!

:7

[hiphopnation]

280. a quick peruse of this thread

and no one seems to have taken an issue with this inane, assbackward and ingorant (though not entirely surprising considering the source) sentiment:

Gender is not like color. Gender does affect attitude

words escape me

[Manifestor_of_Light]

281. No, I don't.

We need a real Democrat first of all: Someone who doesn't vote for war in Iraq, or roll over and give Bush everything he wants.

It is more important to have a real Democrat standing up against the Repukes than it is importanat to have a woman.

Sandra Day O'Connor was the one who threw the election to Bush and didn't get the votes counted. She was the deciding vote. Remember that?

She was no liberal.

I'll vote for a woman the day she's a progressive Democrat with a good voting record.

[NewHampster]

282. see this

a post about your hatred http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3857116&mesg_id=3857116