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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:21 PM
Original message
Kerry On The Patriot Act
This speech is a veritable fireworks show. I can only include so much in this post. You have to read the whole thing to realize that Kerry has hit a whole other level.

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As I talk to people around the country, it’s clear there is a broad based fear that the ideologues of this Administration will stop at nothing to get dissenters out of the way. Already, they are summoning the full-power of their communications network – the attack ads, the Ann Coulters, the Sean Hannitys, the Rush Limbaughs – to try to stifle dissent. In the name of the War on Terror, they are attempting to diminish the very rights that define us. They turn civil debate into a shouting match of personal mudslinging that does a disservice to the quality of our democracy. These pretender protectors of our Constitution are trying to intimidate those who dare to speak out. We will not be silenced. We will be heard.



Clearly in the War on Terror, we need to be prepared. Information is the most critical weapon we have. We need to be able to get and coordinate that information in a real way. And that means we need a President and an Attorney General who are ready to do that in ways that are consistent with who we are. Americans deserve to know there is some buffer between them and the unbridled power of our government.

After September 11th, this Administration gathered and used broad new powers to investigate the private lives of people in this country. The powers were supposed to be used fight the War on Terror. But George Bush and John Ashcroft have gone beyond that. They have used police powers in secret ways and for political purposes. John Ashcroft has authorized his agents to monitor church meetings and political rallies without any cause and without the need to get approval. Thirteen FAA employees and a high-tech Homeland Security tracking system were used to help Tom Delay track down Texas State Legislators who were resisting his plan to give Republicans more seats in Congress.

And the FBI investigated peaceful demonstrators who spoke out against this Administration’s policies in Iraq. I know what it’s like to be spied on by the government because it happened to me under Nixon when I came home from Vietnam and said that war was wrong. And one thing we don’t need in this country is an Attorney General who spies on Americans.



An America that creates a secret police power which can by its secret discretion invade the privacy of Americans and intimidate them is a far cry from what our Founders envisioned and from what we have fought to protect for 228 years.

A country where you are visited by the authorities for thinking or voicing an unpopular idea smacks more of the Taliban than Thomas Jefferson. Trading in our basic rights for the false facade of security is not worth it – and it is not worthy of a great nation such as America.

We are a nation of laws and liberties, not of a knock in the night. So it is time to end the era of John Ashcroft.

That starts with replacing the Patriot Act with a new law that protects our people and our liberties at the same time. I’ve been a District Attorney and I know that what law enforcement needs are real tools not restrictions on American’s basic rights.

I voted for the Patriot Act right after September 11th – convinced that – with a sunset clause – it was the right decision to make. It clearly wasn’t a perfect bill – and it had a number of flaws – but this wasn’t the time to haggle. It was the time to act.

But George Bush and John Ashcroft abused the spirit of national action after the terrorist attacks. They have used the Patriot Act in ways that were never intended and for reasons that have nothing to do with terrorism. That’s why, as President, I will propose new anti-terrorism laws that advance the War on Terror while ending the assault on our basic rights.



This Administration has shown a pattern of abusing civil liberties. At this very moment, an FBI agent could be rifling through every website you’ve ever visited – and you would never know it. A Justice Department official in Washington could be reading every email you’ve sent in the last few months – and they wouldn’t need a judges permission or even a reason to do so. School librarians could be being placed under gag orders to keep them from speaking out. Federal investigators could be demanding and receiving upon request your private hospital medical records. Law enforcement officers could be entering your house while you are gone – rifling through your possessions – and leaving without every letting you know they had been there.

If I’m elected President, we will put an end to “sneak and peak” searches which permit law enforcement to conduct a secret search and seize evidence without notification. Agents can break into a home or business to take photos, seize property, copy computer files, or load a secret keystroke detector on a computer. These searches should be limited only to the most rare circumstances. And law enforcement should provide notice of the search within seven days, unless a court extends the period of notification.

We will provide Americans with protections from wiretaps, prevent local police officers from spying on innocent people, and that ensures our courts guarantee appropriate national security protections.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_1201.html
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. The other day he said it just needed the right administration to implement

it. I assumed he meant one headed by him.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. You Probably Are Referring To This Part Of His Position
Clearly in the War on Terror, we need to be prepared. Information is the most critical weapon we have. We need to be able to get and coordinate that information in a real way. And that means we need a President and an Attorney General who are ready to do that in ways that are consistent with who we are. Americans deserve to know there is some buffer between them and the unbridled power of our government.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. No, it was a TV interview. My impression was that the interviewer

was either challenging him a little bit or giving him an opportunity to address critical suggestions by some that his support for the Patriot Act might not be as strong as most voters would like.

He's in a difficult spot on this one.

The Patriot Act is popular, and he doesn't want to run the risk of being "out-terroristed" by Edwards, but on the other hand, he can use any difference on issues between him and Edwards that he can get, if he wants to debate him, and/or create the perception that they are different.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. His Position Is Pretty Solid With Americans
They want stronger intelligence gathering, but they don't want "sneak and peeks" and men with sunglasses going through their library records.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Up to your old tricks DF?
My impression was that the interviewer....."

In http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x392764

You also use your "impression" of what an interviewer said to make misportray what really happend. You claimed that Kerry was asked by CNN about an amendment to the US Constitution when the question was really about the MA State's Constitution.

Now you're doing it again. Using your false memory to misportray the facts.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I Thought You Meant Me!
Dr. F.

I guess I am up to my old tricks, too...
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Whoops!
I didn't realize you've got the same initial. It's meant for Ducttape Fatwa, who used the same ruse in another thread
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Dr. --
-- continue to operate.

As strong a post as I've seen on the www.

Ashcroft photo --chilling.
Kerry's speech --electrifying
Your presentation of both --perfect
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Thanks For The Compliment!!!
That is a pretty spooky photo. But I have yet to see one of Ashcroft that isn't. Even when he's laughing, it's pretty discomforting.



Of course, having Karl Rove behind him doesn't make it any better...
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kher-heb Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. Kerry on :fill in the blank______
Im against ________ even though I voted for it.
insert any Bush crime.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Roll Call
10/25/2001

By 98 yeas to 1 nay (Vote No. 313), Senate passed H.R. 3162, to deter and punish terrorist acts in the United States and around the world, and to enhance law enforcement investigatory tools, clearing the measure for the President.

http://congress.nw.dc.us/votenowar/issues/votes?votenum=313&chamber=S&congress=1071

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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. amazing isn't it?
Robert Byrd (hardly a liberal), Kennedy and all kinds of other democrats could figure out why it was wrong to vote for bush legislation but Kerry could not....because he trusted the President. :eyes: WTF is the "spirit of the bill" supposed to mean? I thought they spent 300 pages saying something in impossibly lengthy legal speak so that we would NOT have to wonder what the "spirit" of a bill or resolution was?
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11cents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Uh -- look at those figures again.
The Patriot Act passed by a vote of 98 to 1. Byrd, Kennedy, everybody but Feingold voted for it, yes?
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Don't confuse them with facts!!!
.
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teach1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I wonder if Kerry has been reenergized
I'm not thrilled with some of Kerry's senatorial work. He is not my choice in the primary. But his words these past few months have been very powerful indeed. The truths he is presenting lately, and the passion in his presentation, remind me of his earlier work, his work from his days as a vet against the Vietnam War. I don't remember catching that passion at the beginning of the primaries.

Is it possible that Kerry now understands now that the Bush administration is much worse of a threat than he originally thought? Can we forgive his earlier votes if he really is once again fighting the good fight?
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Is Arrogance, Ineptitude, and Recklessness From Ideologues A Bad Thing?
"George Bush has run the most arrogant, inept, reckless, and ideological foreign policy in the modern history of our country."

Is that such a bad thing?
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. And Kerry voted, how, on the Patriot Act(s), again?
Oh yes, that's right, he voted for them.

More brave crumbling to submission. Now that, my friends, is a brave democrat in congress standing up for our dearest held principles!
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Thank You For Reading Posts #7 and #10
You could always write in Feingold...
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. What a glorious speech-NOT.
This man seems to have not one ounce of character.

Finger to the wind: IWR vote Finger to the wind: IWR vote unimportant, I didn't mean it..

Finger to the wind: Patriot Act vote Finger to the wind: replace the Patriot Act

He aspires to THE MOST POWERFUL POSITION IN THE WORLD????

What a shame to waste the beautiful English language on tommyrot.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Coulnd't Agree More
How can I refute such powerful argumentation? I admit it - the ABK faction has finally convinced me! Anybody but Kerry 2004!!!

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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I have seen you and many others give FACTS, HISTORY
the TRUTH beyond a reasonable doubt. Kind of makes you wonder about the motivation of some. It's kind of black is white and white is black - unless, of course, it happens to be their candidate.
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. So maybe I am wrong here? Kerry's position seems to have "evolved."
Edited on Tue Feb-24-04 06:36 PM by revcarol
1) Kerry criticizes Ashcroft et al for their implementation of the Patriot Act. (We didn't think he would act this way.)

2) Kerry says a few of the sections need to be revised.(We don't need to address the whole issue, just tinker with it. And leaves the nation under the impression that some of the more egregious provisions will sunset so we don't have to address them.)

3) REPLACE THE PATRIOT ACT. Now there's an idea, which has been proposed by Kucinich all along.Dump Patriot, and get to dealing with terror with what has been proven to be EFFECTIVE against terror: Kucinich

The reason that I am down on him on this issue and others is that he NEVER SEEMS TO UNDERSTAND THE IMPLICATIONS OF HIS VOTES.

IWR: Ask the families of the dead and wounded if it makes a difference how he voted.
BANKRUPTCY REFORM: Ask those affected whether corporations or people should have more rights.

AND THE PATRIOT ACT: He should have seen the implications for the Bill of Rights no matter WHO IS PRESIDENT.Hundreds are still languishing in jail with their families not knowing where they are or what is happening to them...

He just doesn't "get it."
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yes, you are wrong here
Most of the PATRIOT Act was written by Democrats during the CLinton administration, and most of the PATRIOT Act should stay in place, IMO. The idea that it should be repealed is for those too politically crude and unsophisticated to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Bankruptcy Reform? You Must Be Thinking Of Edwards
Kerry was one of 15 to vote against it. Edwards was one of 83 to vote for it.

http://action.citizen.org/pc/issues/votes/?votenum=36&chamber=S&congress=1071

Don't forget Kerry's vote on Ashcroft.

http://action.citizen.org/pc/issues/votes/?votenum=8&chamber=S&congress=1071

PS - Most of the Patriot Act deals with provisions for improving communications between various departments. As nefarious as they are, the civil rights abuses only take up a small portion (in size, not importance) of the Act.
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. I concede on Bankruptcy. Got it wrong.
But now on the Patriot Act, he wants to replace it. This is essentially KUCINICH's position, that there are so many things wrong with it that it must be scrapped, that merely having sunset provisions will not do it, and it must be repealed. Since NONE OF THE CANDIDATES wants to let terrorists have the upper hand, it must be replaced with an act that is effective against terrorism that don't infringe upon our rights.Communications between various departments are fine, but using local police as enforcers of Homeland Security stuff and all the departments just using each other's dubious information on a "suspect" just sucks.

That is why Kucinich says we have to do what is effective while preserving civil rights, among them the right to fight incorrect information, etc.

THE POINT IS: IS KERRY SO DUMB THAT HE CAN'T SEE THE IMPLICATIONS OF HIS VOTES?

These implications affect real people.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. You're getting the PATRIOT Act wrong also
Kerry does not want to replace it. He wants to amend it.

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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. You're Darn Tootin' They Affect Real People
The bill was passed barely a month after 9/11. Chickens coming home to roost or whatever, three thousand people died that day. Real people with lives and families. It was the responsibility of Congress to insure that everything could be done to avert that happening again. Unfortunately, some nasty stuff got thrown in there, and Ashcroft exploited the hell out of it every chance he got.

But that doesn't mean that Congress should not have responded quickly and appropriately. Now that it is clear what needs to be done, Kerry is absolutely committed to doing it. Considering that only one person in the Senate voted against it, why do people act like every civil rights abuse is directly on the shoulders of Kerry?
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Monkey see Monkey Do Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. Great post. Thanks. (nt)
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
29. OK - Kerry earns points with me here
And its not the first time.

If he would just condemn invading Iraq. Why won't he do that???!!!```
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