What is it about Obama that gets so many peoples' 'goat' on DU?

[babylonsister]

Because he's doing so well? Intelligence bites and hope sucks? I want some hope, and inspiration, and I embrace a refreshing new man who might just be able to deliver.

OK, now, call me crazy. I'm ready.

[Clintonista2]

1. Its not nessesarily Obama, it's his supporters that get my goat

[lisainmilo]

25. I agree and wish the would tell me more about him!

The supporters simply take over a thread, bash the other candidate. I wish I would see some positive threads about what he stands for, what he believes. What policies does he support. What does he think is the worst problems facing our country. What does he see as the root problem of our government....

[babylonsister]

43. Great post, lisainmilo! I wish the debates debated your questions.

It's a fluid situation for all candidates, and our country. If any Dem starts bashing *, it could get ugly, or interesting. I wish Pelosi would start...

[Iggo]

120. That's it, in a nutshell.

[Cha]

129. That's a farce

coming from you and your representation of hillary.

[mac2]

2. He's not doing well on DU

because of his politics. They aren't Democratic.

[K Gardner]

4. WTF??? Which board, exactly, are you reading?

[mac2]

KGardner

asked what has DU members so upset about Obama. I answered.

[K Gardner]

17. No, Babylon Sister asked why DU members were upset about Obama.

My question, and I should have phrased it in something other than a :wtf: is two-fold:

1. What makes you think Obama isn't doing well? He has huge support here and is polling ahead in Iowa.
2. What about Obama is not Democratic?

[mac2]

112. See post #2

[snowbear]

11. Do you prefer DLC'ers?

.... just wondering.. Seems HRC supporters do.

[alteredstate]

72. Please tell me why his politics aren't Democratic.

[mac2]

114. Not Democratic in my mind

because he believes in things which are unconstitutional like Faith Based Charity funding, Globalism, and hasn't moved for impeachment of Bush and Cheney. He supports the Police State and gave a speech on CSPAN about "terrorists and Al Quada" (now how is that for a leader to spread fear and lies). He's no FDR.

As Afro-Americans laid and drowned in the flood waters of New Orleans where was he on that weekend? Oh yes...on break during one of Americas worst disasters. They came back in session to pass legislation to provide funds for Halliburton and Blackwater. Did they go there to see if it was being carried out? NO.

Obama is on the Intelligence Committee in the Senate so he is well aware of what happened on 911, Katrina, Iraq, etc. Our government is lying to us yet he goes along with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina Katrina Hurricane was August 2005.

http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=9490 Obama was elected November 2004.

I want better representation of my Constitution and country.

[IndianaJones]

3. he's ok. nt.

[THUNDER HANDS]

they just support someone else

and have the social skills of a young Vlad the Impaler.

[Wapsie B]

5. Because they're scared he might actually win the whole thing.

Not just Iowa but the nomination. I'm ready for a whole new standard-bearer.

[Joe the Revelator]

6. When half the posters on DU are on HIllary's payroll

of course Obama is going to irk them.




(I kid..maybe)

[emilyg]

32. Yes. I'm still waiting for my first check.

[Joe the Revelator]

34. Christmas slows the post office down

I just got letters yesterday day that were sent on 12/20. Your check will come. I'd expect tomorrow.

[cali]

59. You should kid

Clinton supporters are a distinct minority. And there's zero evidence that any of them are paid supporters.

[hayu_lol]

71. Wolsh...one is tempted to ask...

who is paying you.

Most of your posts are ego based. Your ego, not ours.

Babylonsister actually asked a good question in this thread. She does not do that for the most part. Her OP is part of a changing style of posts here for a change...a welcome change. All you seem to see is a very limited weltanschaum(worldview).

She tries a constructive entry and you continue to sling hash.


Want to join the grownups or continue in the sandbox?

[Cameron27]

86. Yep

:thumbsup:

[Joe the Revelator]

122. You really slapped my wrists

A. My benefactors are none of your business

B. There is zero ego to my posts. I tell the truth and cut through the bullshit thats thrown around by supporters of certain candidates. I'm sorry if that makes you think that I'm completely motivated by ego, but its not true. I'll be the first person to tell you that my persona here is overly hard edged, but it needs to be. It has nothing to do with ego, or making myself a big bad man on DU.

C. Why the backhanded compliment toward Babylonsiter? I actually enjoy 99% of her posts.

D. Thanks for the pretentious use of French. You didn't need the parenthetical explanation. And you have the gall to accuse me of egotism.

E. My post was meant to be lighthearted. Sorry to you took it so seriously. I also expect you to police the rest of DU for posts like these.

F. I'll enjoy myself in the sandbox. It'll be a lot easier then to trying to climb up with you on the high horse.

[jakem]

83. Careful...

implying that not everyone is here out of their completely unbiased concern can get you shitcanned around here-

those other blogs are corrupt, but his one is pure as the driven snow...

[IndianaGreen]

7. We were expected to bow down at the coronation of the Queen of Diamonds

Obama was supposed to be in the role of driving Miss Daisy. How dare he challenge a dynasty?

That's why the Clintonistas are so pissed. They felt their Queen was entitled to the Presidency.

[ellacott]

10. I agree n/t

[Azathoth]

12. I'd say that about sums it up

:popcorn:

[caligirl]

13. This is the very first thing that turned me off to Hil last year.(06). I support Edwards.

[madrchsod]

29. well ....yup, you are right

[The Wielding Truth]

55. I have watched Obama in the senate and was not overwhelmed

by his abilities to sway and convince and reform. He stumbled so many times and accomplished so little that I fear he is not ready to tackle the bully pulpit. That's the problem I have with him. I also don't see the well rounded base with him as I see with Edwards,Kucinich,Clinton, or even Richardson. Oprah is a huge plus but Obama seems to be led by her instead of being decisive and encompassing enough to have her follow him. I do love his amazing charisma but he is missing the political everyman chess moves he would need to straighten out this mess that is our ailing America.

[Sparkly]

76. I've heard that before, but don't see any evidence for it.

In what way did Clinton act as though she wanted anybody to "bow down" or that she was "entitled" to a "coronation?" I seriously don't get it.

[Evergreen Emerald]

79. She did not. That "inevitability" talk was the media and some on DU

attributed it to her. She has never said she is inevitable.

[hedgehog]

140. I was pretty insulted last summer when she had the big song contest.

That seemed to be the work of someone expecting the nomination and needing to put something non-controversial out for public consumption.

[Nedsdag]

139. Go, IndianaGreen, go!

Preach baby, preach!

[Capn Sunshine]

8. See post # 2

How anyone sincerely can post that is , well, what this is all about. Hope and light vs status quo and darkness.

Prevarication at every turn, and slime and crap and outright lies coming from desperation. That's how these guys fight--to WIN at all costs.

Obama's campaign which postulates people are better than this venal approach to fixing the ills of this country , they don't understand this, and lash out.

Plus of course there are so many troublemaking sockpuppets who think they are doing some great mission creating dissent here ....

[annie1]

9. He doesn't get my goat. He doesn't get my anything, zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2569812

[avaistheone1]

50. Obama is all sizzle, and no steak.

Where are Obama's programs? Where is the hope?

He talks to me like a corporatist who can't wait to get into bed with the Republicans.

[AmBlue]

54. He IS a corporatist, and that's what gets me.

We've had ENOUGH of Washington held by a stranglehold of lobbyists and powerful business interests. We struggle to pay $3.29 a gallon while the oil companies make BILLIONS. We choose between feeding our families or prescription drugs while big pharma makes BILLIONS. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!

Obama is taking money for his campaign from big business and he will be beholden to them not WE, THE PEOPLE.

It's time for real change and a President who will help us take this country back for The People.

And welcome to DU, avaistheone1.... :hi:

[avaistheone1]

60. Good points.

I Iowa will think clearly, and see that Obama just is more of the same old politicans who are killing this country, and particularly the middle class.

Thank you for the welcome, AmBlue.

[Catherine Vincent]

14. It's not him.

It's his supporters. Some of them are obsessive over him.

[babylonsister]

18. Wow.

Just wow coming from you. Have you decided who you are supporting? Have you proclaimed your love yet?

[Catherine Vincent]

21. I've said all along I support all the candidates and will

support 100% the man (or woman) that will win the nomination. I don't know enough about any of them to choose a candidate anyway. I rather save my criticism for the republican that will run against our nominee.

[babylonsister]

33. Wow. Your criticism comes through loud and clear, regardless

of how quiet you think you are.

[Catherine Vincent]

42. What candidate have I criticized? nt

[babylonsister]

45. You've been really levelheaded with no criticisms,

and you have shown no favoritism to Clinton. I must be delusional.

[snowbear]

51. LOL...

Now THAT made me laugh babylonsis..

You aren't just beautiful, talented, a great cook, and an awesome DU'er..

..but you're very smooth!

[Catherine Vincent]

53. I admit that I defend Clinton more and I'm sure you and others know why.

Reading some of these posts on HRC here makes me think I'm on FR. If Obama or Edwards were bashed the same veracity as Clinton, I would defend them also.

[Beausoir]

15. For me, it all comes down to his southern gay-bashing tour. How am I supposed to vote for that?

Obama supports and PROMOTES an anti-gay agenda with his Southern gay bashing tour.

How can I vote for that?

[babylonsister]

20. Yes, you're right. He hates your guts so just forget about him.

Is that what you want to hear, or is it true? I can provide links to the contrary, but you have already read them.
How does any candidate measure up? WHO best reflects your views?

[Beausoir]

22. Please do provide links that refute Donnie McClurkin's and Obama's view of GLBT people.

[babylonsister]

27. Sigh. If you read DU, you know my thoughts on this, that Obama made

the wrong decision. But FUCK! When is enough enough? I can't claim to know why he did or even if he's aware of what he did to piss off people. Is he trying to win an election?

[Beausoir]

31. Uhhh..you said you had links to refute Obama's gay-bashing . Where are they?

C'mon. Don't waste my time.

You CHOSE to enter into this discussion and claimed you had links.

Obama runs a Southern gay-bashing tour and you defend that??

Gimme the links you promised.

[Bluebear]

35. "When is enough enough?" - when he apologizes.

This wound just will *not* heal :(

[Beausoir]

41. Nope, it will not heal. Bashing gays to garner votes is unforgiveable. It's just that simple.

How am I supposed to vote for this guy?

What he did was despicable.

[chascarrillo]

61. Obama received an 89% score from the Human Rights Campaign

Link: http://www.hrc.org/about_us/7194.htm

[hulklogan]

81. The same HRC that didn't support a trans-inclusive ENDA

The HRC is the last group I'd rely on for advice.

[chascarrillo]

88. Please tell New Hampshire to get rid of civil unions...

... since that's, by definition, not supporting of marriage equality.

[hulklogan]

116. I will. nt.

[Vickers]

16. I suppose it's his $400 haircut.

Plus he wakes up every morning to the sweet, sweet caresses of Bill Clinton.









Wait...who?

[Kucinich4America]

19. I got pushed closer to Obama today myself.

Dennis Kucinich's announcement about the second ballot at Iowa really didn't have much to do with it. The absolute HATRED coming from obvious Hillbots calling into the Ed Schultz show did. And if AIPAC doesn't want Obama to be president (which certainly seemed to be the motivation of the last hate call on that show) then he just gained 10 points with me on that basis alone.

Why is camp Hillary using RACISM and fear of "muslim terraist boogeymen" against a fucking Democratic candidate?? That is beyond disgusting.

If there were ever a chance I would have voted for Hillary, it would have definitely disappeared today.

[Stop Cornyn]

23. I'm going to go out on a limb -- (1) Donnie McClurkin, (2) oppositing to universal health care,

(3) voting to build a wall on the Mexico border,

(4) voting to continue funding the war,

(5) skipping important Senate votes like Kyl-Lieberman,

(6) voting for Bush's energy bill,

(7) voting for "tort reform" against consumers' rights,

(8) negative campaigning,

(9) "The Audacity of Hope" (have you read it? Blech!),

(10) flip flopping on issues where he USED to be right during the good old days when he was a liberal.

That's my top 10. Pick any one.

[Beausoir]

24. He's just a typical politician. It's very discouraging.

[Seabiscuit]

26. It's not Obama. It's the rude, obnoxious behavior of his DU supporters that

invade threads about other candidates and hurl a pile of nasty, mindless insults.

Beyond that, Obama's gotten very boring. All euphemistic style, no substance. Everytime I watch one of his speeches I end up scratching my head and wondering to myself: "Did he actually say anything about anything? I can't remember."

[Tactical Progressive]

70. I can help you with that

He "doesn't want to be the President of blue America, and he doesn't want to be the President of red America, he wants to be the President of the United STATES of America!"

Now that's saying something about something!

[Seabiscuit]

80. It is? Sounds like cutsy euphemisms to me.

Where are the specifics in clever phrases like that?

Very fluffy. No substance.

Obama knows that if he got specific by, say, taking a definite position on stem cell research, say, or abortion, or prayer in schools, or corporate control of the media, or universal health care, or Iraq, or (fill in the blank), he'd be pissing off either (what he refers to as) Red America or Blue America. So he pretends he can somehow represent everybody, which we all know is absurdly impossible. And this absurdity is what he keeps calling "change". Bleahhhh.

[ellisonz]

125. I get so sick of that argument...

It usually comes from people who are either too lazy or unwilling to actually read the candidates position statements but still demand "specific policies." These people then proceed to vote on image and not records.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

[laugle]

144. You are right on the money and very insightful!

There's a book out about the very same thing, I think it's called "Why Obama can't win." The author was on talk radio and made some interesting points............very similar to yours.

[Bluebear]

28. Cynically pandering to religious homophobes for votes & criticizes those who came before him

It's not "hopeful" or "uplifting" to me.

[babylonsister]

37. I know, but I love you anyway.

:hug:

[Bluebear]

38. OK, you I'll vote for lol!

[Didereaux]

30. as his stances, and beliefs become more clear, it sppears he is not what the PR says.

His announcement last summer that he would NOT have the DOJ investigate the prior administration, his sermonizing on his bringing the 'kingdom' to America, his angering of unions, and of organizations like KOZ. His failure to date of pledging to roll-back all directives and work to remove all unconstitutional laws formed and passed these past seven years. His naive persistent claims that he can successfully work with the Neo-CONS and the twirly-eyed religios nuts, a claim that even world class scholars in human nature see as absurd, you cannot by definition reason with a zealot, you cn medicate them, you can isolate them, but short of intensive 'deprogramming' techniques applied individually ala anti-cult efforts you cannot do anything to change the mind of the zealot. Yet, Obama continues to foist such onto the public (personally I think he knows full well it is BS, but is pandering). Which brings up my last point, his willingness to pander first, rather than face a tough issue is extremely bothersome to me.

Am I for Clinton or Edwards or Kucinich or?????? No, I support Biden, but over everything else I support the DEFEAT, the TOTAL defeat of the Republican Party in 2008, and Obama is showing way to much weakness as a candidate that will be able to both bring out, and then get to vote for him the huge demographic called the 'independant voter'...let alone hold the core pf the Democratic Party together. That latter one is the scary one, the unions and people who listen to KOZ ARE the core of the party.

Now let the anguished screams of 'racist' begin...which by the way if yelled to often for frivolous or non blatant infractions will cost more votes in the general than almost anything short of declaring that all citizens of Mexico will be given dual citizenship.

[cboy4]

36. In my opinion, he comes across as being a little too

cozy with the fundie types.

There was the McClurkin incident, of course.

I also remember his comment about choice in which he said he was prayerful that women will make the correct decision on (I believe it was the 700 Club).

He just worries me that his faith will interfere with important decisions.

[Bluebear]

39. Ah yes, women need to be prayerful about abortion.

How could I forget. :(

[krabigirl]

130. DING DING DING! Exactly my thoughts. :)

[countmyvote4real]

40. I think he's the Democratic Romney. i.e. panderer.

I would like to believe that Obama can time travel us all back to a place where bipartisan government could serve all the people. I don't think that's possible for any candidate. At best he is naive, but I take it as pandering. It doesn't help his cause when he shares a stage with a homophobe. Yeah, that's going to bring us all together.

I understand how people can respond to his message. I just don't see him capable of delivering it. It should be clear after the last year of Congress that the GOP is not going to play with him or any Democratic leadership. Consequently, we need leadership that will fight back, not make nice.

That's my take. I'm sticking to it. And I WILL hold his feet to the fire if I have to vote for him in the General.

[killbotfactory]

44. He has a good chance of beating other peoples chosen candidate

that seems to be what it comes down to.

[Bluebear]

46. Absolutely not.

Many of us decided fairly late in the game, and are not so enraptured by our candidates that we cannot see straight.

[sandnsea]

47. Yes, that's really the bottom line n/t

[Horse with no Name]

48. I think he is trying so hard to sway the Independents and Republicans

that he has forgotten who WE are. That bothers me quite a bit because I don't hold the fantasy that he will remember it anytime soon.
We've been "forgotten" for the last 8 years...it is time someone REMEMBERS that we deserve a place at the table too.

[QC]

49. The nastiness of his cultists here. n/t

[Didereaux]

52. Obama supporters, address the points in msg#30 n/t

[chascarrillo]

62. Unions don't hate him. Obama scored 100% from AFSCME

http://www.afscme.org/legislation-politics/15930.cfm

As far as "KOZ", I'm not familiar with KOZ.

[Didereaux]

63. his very recent comments as to large donators to Edwards etc included the unions...pissed them

[JVS]

56. I'm going to take a page from the HC playbook and say it's because he's black.

They just can't handle the idea of a black man being in charge.

Except the people who are upset about the whole running around with the ex-gay preacher issue. That's a legitimate beef, the same way that people who don't like Clinton's hawkish behavior have a legitimate beef.

[DaveinMD]

57. I don't like

his use of Republican talking points to assail his opponents.

[killbotfactory]

58. saying "talking point" is a right-wing talking point.

it's true, some dude at a rally heard someone else say it. it must be true.

[AndyTiedye]

64. Donnie McClurkin

[ronnykmarshall]

102. Who the hell dressed that queen?

[Chovexani]

137. LMAO

Ronny you're gonna get me fired!

I literally just LOL'd and managed to get tea up my nose. :rofl:

[JDPriestly]

65. For someone who sells himself as a uniter, he seems to have

become rather divisive.

Obama was my second choice candidate. Some of the things he has said recently have made me aware of a huge gulf between his experience and mine.

I vividly remember living in the South and how horrifying segregation was. I remember how difficult the fight for civil rights was, how many wonderful people sacrificed to make equality at least a possibility today. As a woman, I personally suffered from gender discrimination. I have also personally suffered age discrimination. My point is not to complain about my life, but to explain that I have seen just how hard the struggle to get a fair chance can be. You do not get opportunity and a fair deal unless you fight for it.

Ob ama did not experience these struggles to the extent that Americans of my generation have. Hawaii is the least racist of our states in my experience. Indonesia did not experience what the U.S. went through. Occidental College, Columbia and Harvard are ivory tower utopias. Obama saw a struggle in Chicago, but it wasn't the kind of fight that those of us who lived through the civil rights movement and the sexual revolution recall. I have the feeling that Ob ama does not share my experience, and that he does not understand that we are going to have to fight to get progressive change. His attitude that change will be easy and happen just because he says it will seems to devalue everything that those of us who lived through the civil rights movement and sexual revolution suffered. He thinks he can just dream and hope for change and it will happen. Sounds like the "Secret" applied to politics. I think he is overly optimistic.

So, I have moved away from supporting him as my second choice. I think he needs to get more experience in life before he is selected as our candidate. He might be a great candidate in four or eight years.

[chascarrillo]

66. Obama's never suffered from racial discrimination?

Really? You don't think that the clean, articulate, not-black-enough, non-odd afro-wearing Barack Hussein Obama has ever suffered from racial discrimination?

Interesting.

[zalinda]

67. Any form of discrimination that he has suffered

is mild compared to what was happening before the 60's. Black guys could get hung for talking to a white girl, even here in the north. And black women were thought of as either whores or domestics, they were only good enough to service you. I lived in an all white community, I met few black people. Hell, I was told that Brazil nuts were called "nigger toes", and I thought very little of it. I guess I was really naive because I never put guessed why they were called that. It wasn't until my teens that I found out what the proper name of those nuts were. The only black person I had anything to do with was a little black kid that lived across the street from my grandmother. We played on the swings together a couple of times, and then he moved.

I didn't know until in my late teems what was going on in the black community, when I moved into a commune house near Wayne State University in Detroit. There for the first time I actually talked to a black person as "equals". (Still naive, optimistic, idealistic so I didn't have the experience of the people I talked to.) I worked in a fruit juice plant where I made more money to start than a guy who had worked there for 25 years. And he wasn't some broom pusher, but he ran and fixed the machinery that made the plant work. The woman in the plant had to eat their lunch in the rest room. The men went outside to eat. The white people had a cafeteria, where you gave your lunch tickets (which you bought from the switchboard operator) to a black woman cashier. Why the tickets, it was so no one (read black) would steal the lunch money.

No, what black people suffer today, is nothing like it was in the 60's and earlier.

zalinda

[chascarrillo]

87. "He's not black enough"

This whole argument is boiling to "he's not black enough". This is, by definition, a racist argument. This argument needs to be kiboshed.

And, last time I checked, Obama was indeed black during the 1960s.

[Nedsdag]

141. "Not black enough?"

He was the first to get Secret Service protection. Also, he was getting death threats.

Still not "black enough?"

[JDPriestly]

93. That is not what I said. I said he has not seen the worst of it.

And he did not experience the fight for civil rights. I see this same phenomenon in my own children who cannot imagine a world in which women had as few choices as the women in my generation. He takes the fact that he has civil rights and opportunities for granted.

That is why he seems to think that equality and justice can be obtained just by talking about it and negotiating. Sometimes you have to simply pass laws and enforce them. That is the only way that the insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies and organizations like Blackwater will be regulated and brought to play their appropriate role if any in our country. Unity and harmony can only exist when all parties make them happen. And the very wealthy and powerful in this country are no more likely to relinquish their privileges and wealth just because Obama asks them to do so than the southern whites relinquished their segregated schools, hospitals, waiting rooms, etc.

[readmoreoften]

68. I don't want hope. I want action and integrity. I want a fighter not a panderer. /nt

[Skittles]

69. his sucking up to repukes

that's what

[Perry Logan]

73. Some of his supporters seem to be anti-Hillary bigots.

[indimuse]

74. Obama is NO Democrat...Democrats DON'T eat their own...!

what a shame...

[alteredstate]

104. Can you explain your comment?

"Eat their own"?

[sniffa]

110. speaking of bigots

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7307059#7307619

[vi5]

75. I just think his whole happy unity thing is a dream...

His whole just getting along and reaching across the aisle shtick has been proven impossible time and time again. He's dreaming (and his supporters along with him) if he thinks he can succeed at the whole "reaching across the aisle" bullshit where countless others have failed.

I also think the Donnie McClurkin thing sucked.
I also think his recent quote about Kerry and Gore sucked. And I'm someone who thinks Kerry and Gore ran incredibly shitty, meally mouthed, conciliatory campaigns. If he criticized them for doing that then he would have had my vote. But criticizing them for being too controversial and divisive? It just shows me that 1)He's living in a dream world, and 2) He'll run a soft, warm, and fuzzy campaign against republican pit bulls.

I like him. I'll vote for him if he's the nominee, and I'll support him actively if he's the nominee, and I'll donate money if he's the nominee. I just think that if his general election campaign is run like his primary campaign is run, that I'll be very uneasy and very uncomfortable.

[Sulawesi]

77. It's his supporters is it?!

Well, that is no reason to vote against him if he is the right person for the job.

This is what I think, politics today is a game for people; we form loyalties and take it personally when they are attacked. For humans, there is no instinct stronger than us versus them, and once you organize your loyalties, you defend us and attack them. So, it is natural for two camps competing with each other to find faults with the other, even unfairly. And is is natural for someone that is less competitive to get a free ride. In the GE, the us will be the democrats and the them will be the republicans and the conflicts will shift from within-party to between-party.

While this is predictable and understandable, I do not understand why people feel the need to be rude, even profane, and I believe that good candidates are treated with disrespect. I am an Obama supporter. I don't mind Edwards, but don't like Clinton. That said, if I met her I would be polite and show respect, and I try my best to extend that courtesy while on this forum.

[progressoid]

78. Well...

I guess I need more than "hope" or a "dream".

[ruggerson]

82. You have to ask?

:hi:

[Czolgosz]

84. In addition to the ideological weakness mentioned by others, there's more hypocrisy with Obama.

[MethuenProgressive]

85. When he climbed into bed with the Bigot Wing of his church he lost my respect.

Some besotted fans call that "doing well" and "intelligent" and "hopeful"...
Babylon sister says she "embraces" that man "who might be able to deliver" - the embraced Hate Wing of his church "hopes" he'll deliver too.

[paulk]

89. no one is "doing well" until the votes actually start being counted

that said - I'm not happy with Obama. He's gone from being my number three all the way down to six. I've tried to understand what others see in him - I've really tried to warm to him - to feel that "hope and inspiration" that seems to be the hallmark of his campaign... but, you know, I hear the same thing every four years from some candidate or other. And ultimately, talk is cheap. Especially political talk and especially when it's backed up with a resume as thin as his.

I honestly don't "get" Obama. Call me a cynic, but, I'm sorry - I've heard it all before.

[Sulawesi]

91. Maybe you're a cynic...maybe not...

who have you heard it from that has ultimately failed you?

[paulk]

92. oh, pretty much every politician who's ever opened his/her

mouth. Local, state, federal - it doesn't matter.

Every politicain makes promises - promises they know they can't keep. It's almost like politicians are some breed of super used car salesmen.

I especially view promises of "changing the system" with a wary eye...

[RoadRage]

90. I'm interested..

In an answer to this as well. As a newbie to DU, and an Obama supporter - sometimes I get the feeling that Romney would be more welcomed as the nominee then Obama, and I don't get it.

It seems some people really hate him because he's trying to "CHANGE" via comprimise. So many DU'rs just want us to elect someone who will stick it to the Repubs and be really "left" one-sided like Bush has been for the past 8 years. But, isn't that EXACTLY why we despise Bush? Don't we want someone who will be better, and really work to join this country again?

Well, I do. And i'm not saying HRC or Edwards would be BAD, but Independents and Republicans aren't rallying around either of those two.. and that usually helps when comprimise and change is involved.

[ellisonz]

126. Welcome to DU!

The truth is that we haven't had one party government in America since before World War II and that some candidates who think they can just bludgeon the rest of the country into accepting their views carte blanche are living in denial.

:beer:

[NC_Nurse]

94. I'm a little concerned about his religious pandering.

On the whole though, he strikes me as being about as flawed as every other candidate. They have all pandered
to someone at some time.
I guess I'm just not as invested at this point as many folks are. Politics in this country is such bullshit and all
the candidates have to navigate the bog of stupid wedge issues to get anywhere.
I have no illusions that any one of them can fix things overnight. The Bushies have screwed this country up completely
and it's going to take a LOT of changes to even begin to make a difference.
The people who hold power in this country are not going away anytime soon. Period.

[mpendragon]

95. advocating unity, misguided hero worship, and electability

Advocating unity with the GOP would be fine if the GOP was interested in anything beyond using the power granted to them for obstructionism. They don't want to work together, they want influence despite the American people's assertion that they don't deserve it. I like Obama and he's my candidate in the Dem primary but I'm not interested in rewarding the GOP with influence given their recent history of failure, incompetence, and callous greed. They've shown that any olive branch offered them will be used to beat us.

As for the man himself, I like him because he's fairly new to politics and he comes from a modest background. That certainly doesn't make him pristine and it's starting to show. Politics is nasty business where you have to talk about how much you respect your colleagues while saying, with a smile, that all of their positions are misguided at best and a grave sign of corruption at worst. That's unfortunate but pretending you're above it is disingenuous or naive. It's not fair to impose your expectations on someone as your ideal and become disgusted with them when they fall a bit short. No one deserves that much credit or that much blame. Most every candidate has their cons so holding someone up as a savior isn't fair.

Obama is a fine senator but he won his senate seat against Allen Keyes as a carpet bagger after the Republican front runner was taken out in a sex scandal. That limited election experience and being a black man in America trying to become the most powerful man in the world gives him one hell of a steep hill to climb. Some small amount of his support may come from the idea that it's rather cosmopolitan to support a minority for president but it's clear that a large portion of America is still pretty backwards with regards to race and that's a real-world liability for a candidate.

But like I said, he's got my vote.

[Mark Twain Girl]

96. Who gives hope is subjective -- he surely doesn't for me. But I'll vote for the Dem nom. nt

[Blue_In_AK]

97. To me, Obama speaks in platitudes

vague generalities. His oratory is good, but I just don't believe him. I see him as too much of a compromiser.

[LWolf]

98. It's the presentation of him as somehow "progressive,"

when his platform is quite conservative and very similar to the DLC.

Too conservative for my tastes, and he, and his supporters, would get more respect from me if they would simply market him truthfully.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

99. His supporters are noticeably worse than other candidates'

I have no objection to the man himself - he'd make a perfectly good candidate and/or president, as would Edwards or Clinton - but while all the candidates have large numbers of people acting like assholes on their behalf on DU, noticeably more shit is flung by Obamites than by any other group.

It's the supporters, not the man himself, that have riled DUers, I suspect.

[Sulawesi]

100. I disagree, there are obnoxious people on both sides...some incredibly negative opponents of Obama

on this board.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

101. Absolutely true, but what I said is also true.

There are indeed a great many obnoxious people supporting each of the main candidates on DU. However, there are more worse ones backing Obama than the others, I think.

[Sulawesi]

107. If you backed Obama you might not think so, I don't.

[Catherine Vincent]

113. Of course you don't. nt

[BeyondGeography]

103. His father herded goats

so I'm thinkin' maybe people want their goats back.

[youthere]

105. He doesn't get my goat. I like him just fine.

I just like Joe Biden a little better.

[Zynx]

106. His smug, dismissive arrogance.

Also, he is way too fond of gushy platitudes in a fashion similar to how Republicans always talk about "freedom" and "getting stuff done". Obama talks broadly about "unity" and "hope", but I tell you now that the Republicans are not interested in unity and they hope for nothing more than the Democrats to come to the table to bargain with them.

[bdamomma]

108. has Obama said anything about what he will do about Pakistan?

just asking.

[ellisonz]

128. Yes.

MR. RUSSERT: Let me turn to Pakistan. Do you believe the elections scheduled for January 8th should be postponed?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, I think it--the key is to make sure that there's legitimacy to those elections. And given the enormous tragedy that has happened, I think that it is understandable if those elections are delayed slightly. But, but it's important that they are not used--that this is not used as an excuse to put off, indefinitely, elections. And so my main concern is making sure that the opposition parties feel comfortable that they have the opportunity to participate in fair and free elections. That also means, by the way, that we reinstate an independent judiciary in Pakistan, that they are making sure that there is a free press, that the campaigning can proceed. Because our primary interest is making sure that whatever government emerges in Pakistan is viewed as legitimate. And one of the things that we haven't focused on is that the vast majority of the Pakistani people are moderate and believe in rule of law. That's who we want as allies in the fight against Islamic extremism.

MR. RUSSERT: Benazir Bhutto was on MEET THE PRESS October of 2001, shortly after September 11th, and we're going to post that entire interview on our msnbc.com Web site, but she offered these words about General Musharraf. Let's listen.

(Videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: If, in fact, there are elections a year from now, will you return back to Pakistan and run for prime minister?

MS. BENAZIR BHUTTO (Former Prime Minister, Pakistan): Well, I would very much like to return to Pakistan and run for prime minister again, and my party has been urging the military regime to have negotiations that can facilitate such a transfer. We would like General Musharraf to show me that I could return in safety and contest those elections.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: "That I could return in safety." Do you believe that General Musharraf took the necessary precautions in protecting Mrs. Bhutto?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, look, I think an investigation has to be completed to determine how the suicide bomber got as close to the former prime minister as he did, what exactly happened. And that's why it's so important for us to ensure that we are providing all the assistance we can to the Pakistani government and that the Pakistani government is pressured to include opposition figures and, and people who are credible in the investigation process. Until we know exactly what happened, I think it would be premature to judge that. What I do know, though, is that, moving forward, we have to have credible elections and we have to continue to pressure the Musharraf government, as I said back in August, to focus on the problem of Islamic extremism in Pakistan. And the fact that al-Qaeda and the Taliban have taken root in the northwest provinces, it is now starting to spill over into the rest of Pakistan. This poses a grave danger. Benzair Bhutto herself recognized increasingly that this was one of the greatest threats to Pakistan and also to stability in the region and to the United States of America. And we have to ensure that whoever is in power is taking that process seriously.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22409176/page/4/

[trotsky]

109. Speaking as someone who still doesn't have a favorite...

the things about Obama that have bugged me along the way are:

1) Vapid "we must change" speeches. Long on rhetoric, and not just short but completely lacking on details.

2) Bending over backward to include religion and show off his religion.

3) Willingness to sacrifice one group to gain ground in another. (See: Donnie McClurkin incident)

[surfermaw]

111. Campaigning in the Dem Party and sounding like a darn REpublican

Putting down democrats like, Gore, KErry, Edwards, and Kennedy, if he wants to be a republican then join the Republican party, see how long it would take the repubilicans to treat him in the manner they did Colling Powell. Every republican I know is cheering for Obama, they are that afraid of Edward and Hillary.. I wouldn't be suprised that he has republican money.

[mac2]

117. Obama's certainly getting money (millions) from

The publishers for his books. Imagine that!

[redqueen]

115. The homophobe thing, for one.

The 'let's all play nicey nice with these criminal repukes' thing, for two.

I could go on, but anyone reading the posts here should already have a good idea... :shrug:

[Kurovski]

118. Hello!

You got it.

He's pretty wishy-washy, and the times hardly require such vague gentility on a national scale.

Edit: He's a nice guy, though. And I voted him in as senator.

[goldcanyonaz]

119. Honestly, it's because many of his supporters are almost cult like in their adoration for him.

I've seen some message boards where people compare him to Jesus. The next Messiah or Saviour is pretty scary for some of us.

I support Hillary but would support Obama if he were the nominee. Unfortunately some won't support Hillary (on DU) if she is the nominee.

[Auntie Bush]

121. It's because his supporters on DU have been so critical of other candidates.

They are just getting back what they have given/shoveled out. Now they know how it feels and they don't like it one bit. According to my personal observation...some Obama supporters have been attacking other candidates the most.

"I embrace a refreshing new man who might just be able to deliver."
MIGHT is a mighty big word. Hillary has already proved she can deliver...so why take a chance? Don't fall for all the campaign bluster and rhetoric.

By the way...I'd embrace the refreshing face of a woman in the white house.

[laugle]

145. I always enjoy reading your post's.....you are just soooooo sane! LOL

Happy new year to you and yours, 2008 will be the year of the democratic sweep!!!!!!!!!!

[cynthia]

123. Obama has stated that he is in favor of "merit pay" for teachers

a talking point straight out of the Republican Party for years. As a teacher, this one closes the deal for me.

At the Teacher's convention last summer, 8 of the presidential candidates came and spoke about education. Obama mentioned our republican governor by name, lauding his plan to force school districts to adopt merit pay for teachers. So the president of our teacher's union wrote to Obama and asked him what he meant by his comments. Obama replied, laying out his views on education, and re-emphasizing his support for "a professional differentiated compensation system".

Sorry, Obama is republican-lite, and I ain't buying it.

[MzNov]

124. His love of Joe Lieberman?

[IsItJustMe]

133. Didn't set well with me anyway.

[Bluebear]

135. And Senator Coburn

[AtomicKitten]

127. He's a great candidate, and they aren't having any of it.

[ruggerson]

131. Maybe some people have legitimate and honest

disagreements with him?

Just a thought.

[Gloria]

132. Here's my question: HOW??????????

The talk is all about change, and not having all this adversarial politics. OK, so my question is HOW?? HOW does Obama do this? Considering that the entire Republican party is like a search and destroy missile. I'm reflecting on Olypmia Snowe voting for Medicare Part D....she KNEW IT WAS CRAP; she spoke about her reservations on TV...and then, she votes for it. It's that lockstep control of that party, over the few moderates as well as the rest of the crazies, that make me ask..HOW??????? How do you get them to work with you...if you first don't show that you're willing to fight them, even just a little bit?????


HOW??????


(and that's not even considering all the subtle GOP talking points shit....)

[TankLV]

134. pandering to homophobic bigots, trying to skate by by voting "present", and a whole host of other

issues that are INDEFENSIBLE as far as I'm concerned...

but hey - continue to make excuses for him - it's your forte...

[barb162]

136. He's very good, but he's over-rated.

As a senator he's fairly good.

[bagimin]

138. You are not crazy.

that is all.

[Larkspur]

142. Obama sounds too much like Lieberman to this CT Dem

Obama pins his hopes on bipartisanship instead of the truth. And the truth is that some forces he has allied himself with -- corporations -- are hurting ordinary Americans with their brazen greed.

[goodgd_yall]

143. His pandering to the homophobes for one

He's just not all that. The kind of change he is talking about is not the kind of change I think the country needs. He's too bipartisan for my taste. He dissappoints me for not being more liberal. And I think it's the dissappointment that "gets my goat."

[Czolgosz]

146. kick