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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:17 AM
Original message
My morning WTF?! moment
In Washington, Obama signaled almost immediately that his career would not be defined by his race. One of the first acts of the new Congress was to certify the results of the Electoral College. Some members of the Congressional Black Caucus MOVED TO CONTEST the certification of the Ohio votes. Obama did not join them. In a hastily arranged maiden speech, HE SAID HE WAS CONVINCED THAT PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH HAD WON but he also urged Congress to address the need for voting reform.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/28/america/obama.php?page=3

(CAPS mine)
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Justyce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Crikey. Wonder if he'll feel the same if his votes are stolen in Ohio. nt
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. wtf is right. another democratic ostrich.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. John Kerry took a similar stand. I guess his career isn't defined by his race, either.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
4. Senator Obama
was not a member of the Senate at the time the Congressional Black Caucus considered the issues of the Ohio votes.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. this may be a silly question, From reading the article, it says that it was one of his first acts
you say he wasn't a member then. Was that the year he won? If it is, do the former Senate members verify the electoral votes before they give up their seats?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. The only silly question
is the one which remains un-asked.

Let's take a closer look. And to make it easier, we can watch the beginning of Michael Moore's wonderful movie, "Fahrenheir 9/11." Elections are held in November, and those who win are sworn in in the following January. The time to contest an election is in those weeks in-between

Thus, in that movie, we see members of the House begging for even one member of the Senate to support their challenge of the outcome in Florida. We see VP Al Gore closing the door on this effort.

In the weeks between the November elections and the January swearing-in ceremonies, those people who lose elections are not yet "former" Representatives, Senators, VPs or Presidents. They still hold office. And those who have won but are not yet sworn in are not able to participate in congressional activities.

It is as wrong to claim Senator Obama failed in his duties in those weeks, as it would be to say that Senator Clinton failed us in the opening scenes of "Fahrenheit 9/11."
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. it doesn't say he was a Member of the Senate yet
what it says was he refused to support the Congressional Black Caucus when they raised the Ohio Alarm, that Bush had won and that we needed voting reform. Being a high profile newly Elected -- though still not sworn in -- Senator yet could have been helpful in the efforts to investigate voting irregularities in Ohio.

And as for voting reform, has he introduced or supported strong legislation on that yet?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. None of the current democratic
candidates voted in support of the 1965 Voting Rights Act. We can channel false indignation and outrage at that, if we think it advances our agenda. Or we can be real, and admit they couldn't have, because they weren't in congress at the time.
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. another WTF? moment
what are you talking about? The Congressional Black Caucus wanted the Ohio Results looked at more closely, Obama (elected to his Senate Seat in November 2004, the same election we're discussing with regards to the Ohio vote count) refused to support them insisting Bush had won and urged voting reform ... which he hasn't yet -- at least to my knowledge -- done anything about.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. OBJECTION TO COUNTING OF OHIO ELECTORAL VOTES -- (Senate - January 06, 2005)
Senator Obama was there for the vote and he voted NAY as most of them did.

HTML Copy

PDF Copy

By the way, results of General Elections are certified by the new Congress. Any disputes are settled by the new Congress.

In the case of Senators filling vacancies leaving an unfilled term the Senate only certifies the appointment unless the election was held in November during an even year.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. I guess being from Chicago he doesn't think that elections are stolen
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
27. *rimshot*
Nice one. :)
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. Check your dates - was he even in the Senate on that day?
I'm not going to bother to look it up, someone here will know, but wasn't that the year he was elected? If that's the case he wasn't even sworn in yet so he couldn't have participated, also, wasn't it Congressmen who were called to contest the election - Obama's a Senator?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. No.
He wasn't.
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. where does it say he was a sitting Senator?
from up-thread:

what it says was he refused to support the Congressional Black Caucus when they raised the Ohio Alarm, that Bush had won and that we needed voting reform. Being a high profile newly Elected -- though still not sworn in -- Senator yet could have been helpful in the efforts to investigate voting irregularities in Ohio.

And as for voting reform, has he introduced or supported strong legislation on that yet?
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Obama did sponsor legislation for electoral reform
and I believe he cosponsored several bills sponsored by others.

thomas.loc.gov is your friend.
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. thank you n/t
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. Yes he was
Edited on Wed Jan-02-08 10:14 AM by LiberalFighter
Check out CommonDreams article

Lawmakers Launch Historic Protest of Electoral Vote

Illinoisans and the vote

I don't want to leave you in suspense over the vote. The Senate, after about an hour of debate, voted 74-1 to uphold the Ohio vote. Boxer was the solo no vote. The Illinois Democrats, Dick Durbin and Barack Obama, voted with the majority. It was Obama's first Senate vote.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I hope everyone got the true facts now after I posted them.
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Sulawesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. So you would feel better about Obama if he made it 73-2? What about the other dems in the majority?
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. That was not the point.
Posters were posting false statements about the procedure regarding election results in the Senate.

It is one thing to say that Obama or any newly elected Senator could not have voted on the election results just because the election happened in the previous year. It is another thing when all but one voted against.
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. that's a flimsy excuse
-- I'm a high profile newly elected Senator that hasn't been sworn in yet, so I can't do anything -- to not support the efforts of the Congressional Black Caucus to get to the bottom of the obvious theft that happened in Ohio that year. And not only did he refuse to support them, he also supported the notion that Bush won! As for voting reform, it's nice that he said we need it, but -- since he's been Senator -- has he authored or supported any strong legislation to back that up?
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. Ohio probably pushed Edwards to become more combative
That will be easier at the head of the ticket instead of the VP position.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
9. What? After what he said yesterday, that surprises me.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
17. "Some members of the Congressional Black Caucus"
Well, let's see a breakdown, huh? Looks like he wasn't the only one...
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
18. Senate Calendar and other Info
Terms for Senators begin on January 3rd not January 20th following year of their election.


Senate adjourned 12/8/2004 and returned to session on 1/4/2005


Mr. FRIST. I ask unanimous consent that when the Senate completes its business today, it adjourn sine die under the provisions of H. Con. Res. 531.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there objection? Without objection, it is so ordered.

Mr. FRIST. I further ask consent that when the Senate returns on Tuesday, January 4, at 12 noon, following the presentation of the certificates of election and the swearing in of elected Members, and the required live quorum, the morning hour then be deemed expired, the Journal of proceedings be approved to date, the time for the two leaders be reserved, and that there then be a period for morning business with Senators permitted to speak for up to 10 minutes each.

From Senate Rules
ELECTORAL VOTE
See also "Electoral Vote," pp. 1011-1015.
The procedure for the electoral college count is determined by the Constitution and law.

The Vice President or President pro tempore, in such a joint session is the Presiding Officer with the Speaker of the House of Representatives occupying the Chair on his left.

Pursuant to law, the electoral count occurs in joint session of the two Houses on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors. The procedure for such joint sessions is defined in title 3 of the Code, sections 15-18.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
20. How did Hillary vote?
We need the contrast.

:shrug:
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
24.  The Difference Between Obama and Edwards IS Edwards Seeks A Specific Result and Will Stand Resolute
The Difference Between Obama and Edwards IS Edwards Seeks A Specific Result and Will Stand Resolute
Posted by DaLittle Kitty in General Discussion: Politics
Tue Jan 01st 2008, 11:56 PM
in working to firmly negotiate that which is required to achieve the sought after result.

In contrast Obama favors agreement and conciliation in deference to avoiding confrontation, debate or rancor that may be required as part of a process to win hard won but necessary concessions from his opponent.

That is if you want a Neville Chamberlain caucus or vote for Obama.

If you want a President that will stand strong and who will be fearless in combating the Corporatist establishment forces arrayed against the middle class and those even less fortunate... Then there is but one choice... John Edwards




What is Edwards so mad about? (He is not)

By: Roger Simon
Dec 31, 2007 06:51 PM EST
John Edwards
Is he angry or just passionate? The candidate who went from a mill to millions speaks out on his campaign tone of choice.
Photo: AP
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DES MOINES � John Edwards is the son of a mill worker and "had to fight to survive."

"Literally," he says in his mad-as-hell, bare-knuckle stump speech. "Really."

But John Edwards not only survived, he prevailed. He became a wealthy lawyer, a U.S. senator, a vice presidential nominee and a two-time candidate for president.

So what is he so angry about?

His speeches are filled with harsh attacks on the current system, on giant corporations that make "billions and billions in profits" and CEOs who make "hundreds of millions of dollars" in salaries.

He says that average Americans must "rise up" and take power back, because the powerful interests who are exploiting the people will never "voluntarily give up their power."

"That is a complete fantasy," he says. "It will never happen."

The first time he ran for the Democratic presidential nomination, he spoke in passionate, but far less harsh, tones. And the difference has not gone unnoticed.

This time, independent political analyst Stuart Rothenberg recently wrote, "If Iowa Democrats choose Edwards, they are choosing anger, confrontation and class warfare."

Monday, I interviewed Edwards and his wife, Elizabeth. I asked them if John was an angry man and, if so, why.

"What I am conveying," Edwards said, "is passion and energy. I am extraordinarily optimistic about what we can do for this country, but I deeply believe that corporate greed is doing great damage to the middle class."

"If we want to fulfill the promise of this country," he said, "we have to stand up."

Elizabeth Edwards said that her husband could be ferocious but that he was not angry.

"You see in him a passion and determination and even ferociousness in a sense, but not out-of-control anger," she said. "I've been with him for 30 years and I know what anger looks like on his face, and this isn't it. Obama thinks anger doesn't sell, so he says John is angry."

(Barack Obama recently said: "The argument goes that the only way to bring about change is to be angry. I don't need lectures about how to bring about change because I have been doing it all my life.")

I asked John Edwards if there is anything inherently wrong with corporations making large profits and people making large salaries.

"I embrace the idea of Americans being able to be successful, including extraordinarily successful, and working hard and doing well," he said. "I have lived that myself."

But, he added, "there is something inherently wrong with people and corporations with extraordinary wealth and influence using that against the interests of middle-class Americans."

Is Edwards' rise from humble roots not proof that there is economic mobility in American life under the current system?

"It absolutely proves that," he said, "but it is increasingly difficult to move the way I have moved. The barriers are higher and the difficulties greater."

So, as president, would he place a cap on the large corporate profits and large corporate salaries he complains about?

"There would be no caps. That would be contrary to free enterprise; I wouldn't do that," he said. "What I would do is equalize the voices of all Americans in a democracy."

The Iowa caucus will take place Thursday, and Edwards said that while he provides specific solutions to problems, he wants to leave a general impression in these closing days of the campaign.

"The critical thing for people to understand," he said, "is what I believe in a big-picture way: I don't want to see those with power and money tread on those who don't have it."

Elizabeth Edwards drew a direct comparison between her husband and Obama.

"There was a New York Times article fairly early in the race," she said. "It had a picture of Obama with an Afro � that a lot of people had then, it was nice looking, not odd looking � at Harvard Law School, being asked to voice an opinion at a meeting of people with respect to tenure for African-American professors. He spoke, and spoke eloquently, and when he left, both sides felt he agreed with them."

This was not a good sign, Elizabeth said. This was an example of when a "desire for conciliation becomes more important than getting a particular result."

She also said that being too conciliatory "is not what we need right now" and that "John believes we have to fight."

"What this country needs is someone who is ferocious and determined, committed and impassioned, and is not angry to do things, but committed to do things," she said.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/...
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. eh, this was after Kerry had conceded
thus providing little political or even moral support. I think it's a bit offsides to pin any blame on Obama for Kerry conceding. if Kerry refuted the results and Obama did this, that would be a different story.
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