"Allowing the use of school property for meetings by voluntary student prayer groups...

[IndianaJones]

should not be a threat, any more than its use by the high school Republican Club should threaten Democrats"

Barack Obama

[msongs]

1. except for the coercion that will be involved by the xtians nt

[rucky]

2. He's right. n/t

[NC_Nurse]

3. Why can't they use church property?

That's what it's for, right?

[Adsos Letter]

11. I think (just speculating) that this falls under the issue of school clubs...

as long as there is no coercion, nor abridgement of right to access...

Just guessing...

:D

[liberalhistorian]

13. So why don't school theater groups just use

local theaters, then? Why don't school music groups just use local clubs, then? Why don't school chess groups just use their own homes or local halls? Etc., etc., etc. Why don't all people who don't agree entirely with me or who don't believe in what MY group believes in just shup up and go away? Sheesh. :eyes:

[dsc]

14. theater and music groups are different in that they get grades

but I also agree that clubs have a right to exist.

[tammywammy]

16. It depends

I was on the literary magazine in high school. It was a club, therefore treated just like the Christian club and there were no grades involved.

[NC_Nurse]

25. The other groups that you mention are not religious.

Since public schools are government-run, I would think that religious activities should not be held there.
You know, separation of church and state?

I would thin most kids who want to be in a religious activity probably could find a church that would sponsor them or at least
provide a meeting space for them since they are not commercial spaces.

I don't know where you got the message I thought anyone should shut up and go away. But hey, feel free to be offended. :eyes:

[tammywammy]

4. He's right

My own high school had three religious clubs, a Christian, an atheist and an Islamic.

[Adsos Letter]

9. I think you nailed the Constitutional issue, tammywammy...

as long as this option is open to all religious groups (or non-religious, depending on how one defines it) it should probably pass the First Amendment issue...


Love yer avatar...

:D

[tammywammy]

10. Thanks!

[PurityOfEssence]

5. Imagine if it's Huckabee versus Obama, locked on Super Duper Tuesday...

It'll be nine months of wall-to-wall Jesus. So much godstuff yore li'l head gonna 'splode right there on the spot.

Someone please remind the good Senator that the Constitution doesn't even mention political parties, but it DOES mention religion twice, both times to emphatically disinvite it from the system.

[Hekate]

6. There are ways of dealing with it Constitutionally, and the ACLU endorses them.

You really like the hit-and-run approach, don't you?

Hekate

[ben_meyers]

7. Our local HS does this now,

And has a Muslim group, a Black Student Union, a Native American Group etc. What's the problem?

http://ww2.chandler.k12.az.us/CHS/Extracurricular/Clubs.asp

[dsc]

8. Actually every GSA in the country owes its existance to the law

which granted Christian groups their access. I have no problem with honestly voluntary prayer groups meeting on school property as long as it isn't during school hours and is student lead.

[gratuitous]

21. This is true

And the proof that it's the GOP that's really against voluntary groupings of students for purposes they disagree with is that often, when the GSA forms, the school administrators are inundated with protests, and schools suddenly outlaw all student groups.

[dsc]

24. true enough

I really don't mind these prayer groups even though they might mind me.

[NMMNG]

29. They only want access and groupings for themselves

When it comes to anybody else there's suddenly a problem. Just like that 1st Amendment "Freedom of Religion" thing. They'll preach that to the hilt--until it comes to somebody else's religion (or lack thereof). Then it's time to start suppressing it left and right.

[liberalhistorian]

12. And what is the problem with that?

What is the difference between that and any other voluntary group in a school? Student religious groups have as much right to a voluntary group in a school as any other group. And it's perfectly constitutional, as long as other groups are permitted as well.

He's absolutely right in that it is no more a threat than a high school repub club is a threat to Democrats. If we want freedom for ourselves and our own beliefs, we MUST extend that freedom to others as well. That's the constitutional way.

And frankly, I'm getting a little tired of people here yelling "boogeyman" whenever anything slightly religious comes up like this. It's just as bad as the other way around, which is complained about constantly here. Or are we only tolerant for what WE want and believe in?

[Adsos Letter]

15. Hey, liberalhistorian...

I agree with ya'!

OT, but, have you read "The War for Righteousness: Progressive Christianity, the Great War, and the Rise of the Messianic Nation." by Gamble? If so, I would be interested in what you thought of it...

EDIT: I always forget that first quotation mark... :dunce:

[chascarrillo]

17. The ACLU agrees with him

Problem with that?

[tammywammy]

19. I'm going to go out on a limb here

And guess that this isn't the way he expected this thread to go. :shrug:

[Adsos Letter]

27. ...could be...

he hasn't been around to take questions...

:rofl:

[Nailzberg]

28. He drops his out of context quote and runs back to the hole in the wall

[Forkboy]

30. The funny part is that if we did that about Hillary he'd shit his diapers.

[Flabbergasted]

18. I agree

[mrreowwr_kittty]

20. What part of "voluntary" do you not understand?

[SDuderstadt]

22. And he's absolutely right

For the record, I'm not only an atheist but also a card-carrying ACLU member. For a school to selectively deny a school club the use of school facilities in such a manner violates the "free exercise" provision of the first amendment. As long as the club is truly student-led and there is no endorsement/coerced participation, this is perfectly constitutional.

I would not only fight for their right to organize as a club, the ACLU has also, despite what RWers claim, supported the right of a church to use a community pond for baptisms and fought for the right of sidewalk preachers to use public sidewalks. The school can neither favor nor not accord the club the same rights as other student organizations, which is as it should be. The ironic thing is, an an atheist, I am more true to the intent of free exercise than many religious organizations have been.

[NMMNG]

23. Of course

And allowing the use of school property for meetings by voluntary student LGBT groups should not be a threat either....but when the tables are turned suddenly they don't want to play fair.

[Adsos Letter]

26. And that is precisely where the issue needs to be addressed...

...equal access or no access...