How does Secular DU feel about Obama?

[adnelson60087]

This is meant primarily for the Secular/Freethought/Atheist/Agnostics here at DU. Does anyone feel uncomfortable with Obama's statements of his faith? Personally, I cringed when he used the "Awesome God of the Blue States/Red States" line in 2004 and haven't been too positively moved since. So, how do others feel about this issue? Would he discontinue the Office of Faith Based Initiatives, etc? Do we know how he feels on Science Research or Big Bang Theory, etc?

[keep_it_real]

1. This year is 2008 not 2004

[countmyvote4real]

2. whut? n/t

[adnelson60087]

13. 2004, when he rose to national awareness at the Democratic

Convention with his famous speech?

[Bicoastal]

3. Obama's just too smart to be against global warming or evolutionary theory...

....he's also smart enough to know no person could be elected President in this day and age without being vocally religious.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

10. Thank you.

Obama's already saddled with his Muslim heritage and his middle name, adding atheism to the mix would tank him. Sucks, but that's the reality.

[swag]

4. I'm an atheist, and I'm sad that all candidates feel they have to pay lipservice

to omnipotent and omniscient imaginary playmates (sometimes even to their own imaginary playmates), but Obama will definitely do in place of Bush, particularly with strong senate and house majorities.

[saltpoint]

5. I took the "awecome God of the blue states" line to be an assertion of

Obama's likely deeply held belief that the fundie nutjobs don't get sole dibs on Jesus.

I took it to be a summons to a higher interpretation of spirituality which inadvertently blames anyone who tries to keep it down low and mean-spirited, namely the fundies. It was a welcoming and assuring way of telling the fundies to update their files.

There are Christians and then there are Christians. I can listen with great patience to the words of St. Francis or Bill Moyers. I'm usually the first one out the door if the speaker is Pat Robertson or Jim Dobson or any of the other fundie cretins of similar ilk.

Obama is a upper realm thinker on any topic. I trust his take on Christianity for that reason and also because he lived its central tenets in community-building in greater Chicago.

[cmaff05]

6. Well

I am a secularist and I have no problems with Obama. He's actually the best candidate on the Democratic side in terms of being secular. And anything is a step up from George "God told me to do it" W Bush.

[saltpoint]

11. Welcome to DU, cmaff05. I'm on home turf with a secular consciousness if

we include the "secular" Christians or not, but I'll listen to a Baptist minister like Moyers or read a bio of St. Francis, even though I feel we live and navigate in a secular landscape.

Couldn't agree with you more if I had to about Bush.

And again, a warm welcome.

[cmaff05]

12. Thank you

Thank you for the welcome. I love it here already.

And like you said, I don't mind listening to certain Christians. But as you implied, once a line is crossed from being reasonable to being radical, that is when I have a problem.

[Cha]

26. I like the way

you put that.

[saltpoint]

31. Hi, zidzi. I hope some people on DU will look up the Obama keynote speech

in Boston from 2004.

I think it would be time well spent to hear it for the first time if they haven't heard it yet.

[Cha]

34. I should read it myself

because I saw him give it on tv and know it was amazing but I can't remember anything he said expcept a post in this thread said that he included people who weren't religious, too.

Thanks, Crusoe.

[saltpoint]

38. Here's a link, zidzi. Enjoy.

http://www.2004dnc.com/barackobamaspeech/index.html

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. How do the seculars feel about any of the other candidates who profess to be Christian?

Everyone of them has made references to their faith in public at some point. Why does Obama seem to be singled out for more criticism on this issue?

I don't know what Obama would do about faith based initiatives. Hopefully he will look into them as so many seem to be a scam for GOP cronies.

Do you honestly believe he doesn't support science or that he doesn't believe in accepted scientific theories? Really?

BTW, I am atheist and I support him. Perhaps you missed the part of his 2004 speech where he acknowledged the existence of non-believers. In a positive way no less. :wow: I have yet to hear a single major political leader do that.

[Cha]

27. Thanks for that, cat..

"Perhaps you missed the part of his 2004 speech where he acknowledged the existence of non-believers. In a positive way no less. I have yet to hear a single major political leader do that."

If I knew I had forgotten..that's pretty inclusive.

[countmyvote4real]

32. Religion is like sex: You can pick a box, but the details are personal/confidential.

We don't need to know these things unless a candidate's religious persuasions are openly put out there as justification/qualification for the office. Then, like any policy or proposal it does deserve some scrutiny.

The Obama thing is not about his religion (at least from the center aka left), it's about his association with an anti-gay supporter at a rally in SC. I do agree that the right has questioned his religion for completely bogus reasons like his middle name.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

37. Okay, so I hope you're not supporting Hillary Clinton either

She has accepted an endorsement from a homophobe and is paying another $10000 a month as a consultant.

[countmyvote4real]

39. I wasn't aware of that one, but I have so many other reasons not to support another dynasty.

I'm thrilled for Obama, but I think Edwards has more substance (or at least the ability to get a better deal without compromise.)

[guruant]

8. As an atheist...

I wasn't bothered at all by his "Awesome God..." remark. The man's a Christian. I accept that. As long as he isn't a fundamentalist who wants to impose religious law in government, then to me, his beliefs are his beliefs. I also recognize the fact that he is an incredibly intelligent man who knows when to separate his religion from his politics. His faith and life experiences are what gives him his morals. I'm not bothered by the fact we have different sources of our moral values.

[frogmarch]

9. I'm an atheist, but Obama's faith-talk doesn't

bother me much. (I just noticed I'm grimacing as I type this, so maybe it actually does.)

[PurityOfEssence]

14. It's a major problem.

Once we cozy up to the foolishness that it's necessary to use religion to beat their use of religion, we inexorably slide to the tacit acceptance that religion isn't just "sorta okay" in the political realm, but essential. From there, it's a short goose-step down the path to it being necessary in society itself.

The problem with religion in public life is that it brooks no dissent and requires no proof. No policy is worth enacting unless it can be justified on its own, rather than because it simply has to be by the unquestionable hierarchical order of the universe.

Religion in politics is aristocracy: it's xenophobic and demands its adherents to be granted the privilege of primacy. Ideas need to be fought out on the basis of their validity, and this is simply not in keeping with religion in government.

Things incrementally encroach on one's consciousness, and what seems like a tit-for-tat bit of clever politicking could have the unintended consequences of further sanctifying the theocracy that snarls in the wings.

My umbrage about the McClurkin affair is extremely exacerbated by this: there's no way that this overt a use of bigotry would be used in any conceivable arena other than a religious one. It's wrong. It's wrong and that's one of the true tactical realities about religion in social situations: it's often used as the justification for doing wrong. It endangers the very concept of our society, and it's not nice.

Imagine if Huckabee and Obama clinch it on February 5th: it'll be nine solid months of wall-to-wall Jesus, and in the end, it'll be etched into our bones that that's just fine.

It's not.

In all fairness, Hillary's used it way more than I'd like to see, too, and just as a reminder, Edwards has been specific about NOT doing it.

[Sparkly]

15. I'm not thrilled about it, but I can accept it.

I cringe at the "Kingdom on earth" statements and such, but at this point I just want a Democrat to win, and I guess that helps.

I have to trust that he's not going to legislate those beliefs, and I do hope that in office the religious rhetoric might stop... I think the "awesome God" thing at the convention was meant to unify, but it has the opposite effect for me. (As does the generational divide he speaks of.)

I hope it's about getting votes.

[Hippo_Tron]

16. I'm Agnostic and feel great about Obama

His positions on the issues reflect that he is not interesting in legislating his morality. I have no problem with him using language that appeals to religious voters, especially if it will bring them over to our side. I wasn't wild about McClurkin but considering he wants to get rid of DOMA and Don't ask Don't Tell, supports hate crimes legislation, and wants federal benefits for gay couples, I can live with it.

[thesubstanceofdreams]

17. Doesn't bother me much

He doesn't seem a threat to the separation between church and state, rather the opposite (100% legislative rating from Americans United for the Separation of Church and State). And I don't think his religion will get in the way of sound judgement on issues like stem cell research, etc.

[ZombieHorde]

18. It is the name of the game. nt

[Quixote1818]

19. What is his stance on Stem Cell Research? nt

[Nailzberg]

22. In support of.

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060717-statement_of_su/

For these reasons, I'm proud to be a long-term supporter of greater stem cell research. While I was a member of the Illinois Senate, I was the chief cosponsor of the Ronald Reagan Biomedical Research Act, which would specifically permit embryonic stem cell research in Illinois, and establish review of this research by the Illinois Department of Public Health.

[Nailzberg]

20. Unitarian DU, and I have no objections to his faith.

Nothing wrong with faith. nothing wrong with talking about it. So long as he doesn't govern by religious belief. That's all that matters to me.

He has a chapter address faith in Audacity of Hope. Reading that eased any concern I had toward the role of faith in his life.

[peace13]

21. As my Lutheran Repug father once said...

'I like * the only thing that bothers me is mixing religion with politics'. Now we see that the bit of religion that GW interjected has turned into a giant tumor that suffocates our society. If Dad were alive today I would love to know how he thought that worked for him. Obama will say anything to get elected. Unfortunately he won't put his religious beliefs to work for us to stop the war. Our government can kill, lie, cheat and steal for the god that so many worship.

[Blue-Jay]

23. I'm OK with it.

Thank you for your concern.

[Cha]

24. I don't give a shite..

whatever floats his boat. Why are you just asking this about Obama? They all have their God.

[Occam Bandage]

25. I'm an atheist. I like him.

[AtomicKitten]

28. I'm agnostic and support Obama.

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. I'm an atheist

So is the wife.

We're used to the fact that politicians speak religiously. They couldn't get elected otherwise.

I don't give a shit what he personally thinks about the Big bang Theory so long as he increases funding for the NIH, the NSF, and other scientific agencies.

You can check out the current (Jan 4) issue of Science for more on all the candidates.

[jenmito]

30. I am 100% comfortable with his views. He's the only candidate I've heard include people with no

religious beliefs. That's me. I hope he is our next president.

[gaspee]

33. If we're going on faith

I don't like any of them. But I will never see an atheist elected president of the US.

I wonder if I'm gonna get jumped on for that - like I was when I said that from my own personal experience, I don't think the US will elect an African American in 2008.

I am fed up with evangelical christians. I am fed up with people who want to make laws that govern me based on their religious tennants.

I am absolutely fed up of the pandering toward the holy rolling crowd.

I wish I was young and rich enough to move to a secular country, like Sweeden or Iceland.

I am sick to death of the passive aggressive victim playing so-called christians.

I am sick to death of being told to "get over it" when I complain that presidential candidates climb on m back to get the bigot vote.

The faith based initiatives crap is going to continue to funnel money from the public coffers into the prefferred religious sects and if that isn't unconstitutional, I don't know what is.

[sandnsea]

35. He confronts the phonies and the haters

He reminds them that everybody is to be included in this United States of America, regardless of faith or lack of it. He speaks for me.

[ozone_man]

36. It seems to have affected his judgement on Donnie McClurkin.

His faith politics is offensive to some atheists and to many in the gay and lesbian community. He never apologized for that, so it makes it seem that he is willing to throw gays and atheists under the bus to gain support of evangelical conservatives.

I think he and Hillary have their faith advisors to allow each to maximize the impact of their faith on voters, but that comes across as being offensive to those who would prefer that politics be secular. We have seen enough faith in politics, mainly beginning with Carter and then increasing dramatically with Reagan and the religious right. It's unfortunate that to be president, one has to be a Christian and demonstrate their faith openly. This was not the case when the country was founded by deists who were not even Christians. They wouldn't be able to run for office in this era.

Overall, it's something that I'd like to see us move beyond, requiring candidates to talk about their beliefs in the supernatural. They should be talking about important secular issues like the economy, health care, ending our global domination, saving the Earth from catastrophe, strengthening science in schools. A president should be a leader to all citizens and should be a world citizen. So to achieve that, it's necessary to be all inclusive, which isn't possible if engaging in faith politics. When you talk a lot about faith, the atheists and agnostics are left out, and Muslims or Jews or Wiccans are left out when it is the Christian president talking about his Christian faith. If he wants to be a reverend like MLK, then fine. But a president should maintain a secular public image. His/her judgment should not be perceived as being affected by beliefs in the supernatural. It's only a degree of separation from the president who believes that God told him to invade Iraq and one who believes moderately. They both are engaging in delusional behavior from a psychological point of view.

Be a uniter not a divider as Bush would say. ;) The way to do that is not through faith, since all religion divides.

[bhikkhu]

40. Another 100%, from an "agnostic"

Of course only those expressing their religion-grounded morality will be electable, so an agnostic or atheist must pragmatically allow for religious viewpoints, and consider the person behind them.

A candidate who sees the righteous hand of god behind every event and perhaps makes his decisions based upon the voices in his head as he prays is the worst case scenario - but that describes only a few repugs I can think of, and no democrats.

Obama seems sane, intelligent, thoughtful, respectful. I have no problem with that.

[XemaSab]

41. I understand that religion is important to many people

especially African-Americans and I'm comfortable with his statements of faith.

I don't think he's a fundy, and I trust him to lead our nation in a secular manner. :)

[killbotfactory]

42. I'm fine with him

and I'm a pretty staunch atheist.

[fujiyama]

43. Quite positively

because he has actually acknowledged non-believers in his speeches.