After Iowa win Obama STILL fails to take the national lead? Why don't people like him?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

Why with all the Iowa momentum has Obama failed to take the national lead? What do you think is turning people off about him? To me it's the chinese food feeling. Sounds good while you're watching him but then leaves you empty.

[Miss Chybil]

1. I like him. nt

[ingac70]

2. Whatever...

Clinton was "leading" in Iowa too.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. Ras has them very close. Her nat'l lead has slipped quite a bit.

Clinton 33% Obama 29%

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

[Rosa Luxemburg]

27. I think have just become energized?

the support for Obama is going up like an express elevator nationally!

[babylonsister]

4. Huh? Where isn't he leading, pray tell? nt

[Proud2BAmurkin]

7. Clinton leads nationally, even with Rasmussen the rePUKE pollster

I don't know what is turning people off Obama

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. And Clinton's numbers are tanking.

How would you explain that?

[bpeale]

5. his rhetoric does not match what he does

takes entirely too much money from big business

[cali]

16. His rhetoric matches his history. Unlike certain other candidates. n/t

[Clark2008]

26. Sounds like your candidate.

Note: I am not really supporting anyone.

[spooky3]

51. not according to Open Secrets

check out the multiple threads showing how much more $ Clinton and Obama have taken from industries such as health care, Wall Street, etc.

[bpeale]

59. and we ALL know what you are about

i was waiting for you to submit some snide remark without any proof. off to ignore with you.

[maddiejoan]

6. He's not ready yet.

Pop him back into the oven and take him out in 2016.

[Lerkfish]

10. "pop him into the oven"??????

um, that is so wrong on so many levels, I hardly know where to begin.

[redqueen]

14. Surely you recognize it as a baking metaphor.

[Lerkfish]

32. or a "he's not brown enough" metaphor

:shrug:

[redqueen]

37. Speaking as a brown person:

um, no.

:wtf:

[maddiejoan]

21. He's the one

that says he's fired up and ready to go.

:shrug:

[emilyg]

52. Agree.

[Lerkfish]

9. this is getting a bit ridiculous

you're against him because he reminds you of chinese food?

I have things against him, but they are actual legitimate, logical arguments.

this is just fluff rhetoric, empty talking points used in place of actual debate.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

18. ok I'll be more specific

I can't name one thing he stands for but the "hope" of "bringing people together" which I don't believe exists and if it did I wouldn't want it anyway because it means Democrats roll over to RePUKES because they ain't going to roll over to us.

With Clinton I have more confidence in management and foreign policy competence and even Edwards would get us health care I think.

[Lerkfish]

31. so your logic is to abandon hope?

that's hardly more specific, here I'll help you out:

my specific objection was when he saber-rattled against Iran, hardly a diplomatic strategy. Saber-rattling in that region has gotten where we are today.

see? that's a solid, specific, concrete objection.

You're just spouting empty rhetoric.

[redqueen]

19. This person is discussing nationwide support...

the support of people who scarcely know much at all about detailed plans or specifics from any candidates' platform.

So... yeah... the fluff probably decides their responses to these surveys more than anything else.

[Armstead]

11. It takes time

Usually underlying bigger trends in such things take time to take hold, or show up.

[suston96]

12. A little bit of reality......It ain't Obama...

The national polls average is affected by many state polls, many of which are quite old. Until they are all updated, or at least most of them are, accuracy will be very debatable.

But a trend can be seen - as it is now - as some of them begin to update.

[sinkingfeeling]

13. I like him, but he's not my first choice because I don't like being preached 'at' and he hasn't

told me how he intends to 'unite' the country.

[redqueen]

25. That would be the reason I'd bet on. (nt)

[damntexdem]

15. He's surged ahead in the polls in NH.

Give him time.

Meanwhile, I still support Edwards.

[Sulawesi]

17. Just wait...

[Proud2BAmurkin]

23. OK but he'll have to get out of the race soon if he doesn't finally take the lead.

nt

[dionysus]

47. did you type that with a straight face? are you serious?

[Alexander]

63. Yeah, all those delegates don't matter at all.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[cali]

20. Put down the bong

or the bottle or whatever it is that's causing these delusions of yours.

[Colobo]

22. LOL!

[dionysus]

49. i wish i had some of what he's been smokin'

[Alexander]

55. So does Obama, if you believe what you hear from the Hillbots' rantings.

[Uncle Sinister]

24. Start READING the polls, instead of smoking them

nt

[mckeown1128]

28. Please provide a link to the polling that shows him behind

her nationally??? LINK...I am waiting...

[Proud2BAmurkin]

34. here you go

In the race for the Democratic Presidential Nomination, it’s now Clinton 33%, Barack Obama 29% and John Edwards 20%

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

[redqueen]

It's strange how many people in this thread seemed to miss that.

[pdx_prog]

29. From Michael Moore...

"Barack Obama is a good and inspiring man. What a breath of fresh air! There's no doubting his sincerity or his commitment to trying to straighten things out in this country. But who is he? I mean, other than a guy who gives a great speech? How much do any of us really know about him? I know he was against the war. How do I know that? He gave a speech before the war started. But since he joined the senate, he has voted for the funds for the war, while at the same time saying we should get out. He says he's for the little guy, but then he votes for a corporate-backed bill to make it harder for the little guy to file a class action suit when his kid swallows lead paint from a Chinese-made toy. In fact, Obama doesn't think Wall Street is a bad place. He wants the insurance companies to help us develop a new health care plan -- the same companies who have created the mess in the first place. He's such a feel-good kinda guy, I get the sense that, if elected, the Republicans will eat him for breakfast. He won't even have time to make a good speech about it."

The media seem hell-bent on getting this guy elected. Edwards is clearly the most electable candidate but the MSM doesn't want anyone to know....

[KennedyGuy]

30. Is Edwards still in it?

[pdx_prog]

33. Precisely my point.....:)

[NYCGirl]

56. And Michael Moore sure has a good track record in picking winning candidates,

doesn't he?

[youthere]

35. Oh please.

[PresidentObama]

36. He's within points of Clinton nationally. Keep in mind, she once had 50% in some of these polls.

[The_Casual_Observer]

38. I liked Obama until I realized he's all hype & buzz. The Oprah thing

tipped me off, after that I noticed it's all about tent revivals, hand held microphones, arm waving, call and repeat & feel good bullshit.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

39. And it's working.

Oddly enough, long-winded wonky policy dissertations don't get people out to the polls. But then, you knew that. Obama is hardly the first politician to appear with celebrities and make feel-good stump speeches.

Why do I always detect an undercurrent of something rather disagreeable - having to do with the type of people who attend the Oprah events - in posts like this?

[The_Casual_Observer]

42. If I wanted to see cult shit like that, I'd join a fundie church.

I have no idea what kind of people would be at an Oprah deal, all I know is I wouldn't be one of them. She ought to be paying less attention to Obama & more to what goes on at her academy.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

43. There it is again! Much more obvious this time. nt

[Name removed]

44. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beacool]

40. I don't hate Obama, but I strongly dislike his too smooth political persona.

Pardoning the poor analogy, but he reminds me of a popular guy who will charm you with his charisma to get you in bed. You know that he won't stick around and that he's not husband material, but his personality is such that you go with the flow only to find out that he split before you woke up and you end up feeling used.

I see Obama supporters being bowled over by his oratory, his compelling personal history and the incessant drumbeat of the media who has found their new poster boy, but I don't see substance nor experience in his very thin record in the senate. I would have been glad to have considered him in 4 to 8 years (depending on how we do in the GE), but absolutely not this year.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

45. Yes, Bill Clinton was much better "husband material", wasn't he?

If we're going to do comparisons like that, let's look at Obama's family to see what kind of husband he is. Looks pretty good to me.

[Dawgs]

41. In the states where people can actually see the candidates Obama wins big.

Your analysis is dumb, at best.

[dionysus]

46. get back to us after he wins NH please.

sheesh, the desperation wafting around here...

[DrFunkenstein]

48. How Long Did It Take Kerry to Top Dean on the National Polls?

We could do a history lesson running down every four years, but you get the idea.

[Thrill]

50. It takes a little bit to overcome Hilary's popularity

But soon the National will change as well.

[BenDavid]

53. Truth today, and if it comes across as being pissed or mean

spirited then so be it. The reason the majority of americans do not give obama higher ratings nationally is they see him as too cute by half. All hat, no cattle and they have not come under the spell of falling for his ability to deliver a speech. what I wanna know is why he supports a preacher that is anti israel? This is something the msm has not gone after and i doubt they will.


Obama a man with a one page resume, and he's the most qualified?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

57. "Too cute by half" I think you just nailed my sentiment

even though I never thought of it in those words, there it is.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

58. Too bad for you that Obama's ratings have gone up quite a bit.

He's now within 4 points of Clinton nationally according to Rasmussen.

[Alexander]

54. Don't worry, after Clinton's drubbing in New Hampshire Obama will hold the lead.

You sound really desperate, trying to create 20 different threads expressing your hate for Obama.

Guess what it's time for!

[Catherine Vincent]

60. If anyone doesn't like Obama, they should be watching this CNN

segment now. They are interviewing his grandmother in Kenya. Great story. They talked to his uncle also. They are very proud of Obama. I can only imagine how things would be for them if he were to win the presidency.

I love this. And btw, she doesn't live in a hut (at least it doesn't look it to me).

[cloudythescribbler]

61. The OPer here casually makes the false assumption that the nat'l polls show true(er) merit ...

The point about the difference between the national polls and those in states such as Iowa, NH and S Carolina, where Obama has been organizing heavily, is that the people who are watching the campaign more closely, and those who have more likely had contact with the campaign(s), are more likely to support him. By contrast, inertia (eg name recognition) favors the candidate who was the presumptive nominee at the outset of the campaign, namely HRC.


Now, the way the primary schedule is structured, there are a handful of legitimate Democratic Party votes in Jan (IA, NH, NV, SC) and two 'orphan' primaries/caucuses in FL and MI. In the first four, the candidates can organize heavily, and have done so. These are the people much more likely to have read about the candidates in the local news or heard them in person and/or on local news broadcasts. They are more likely to be familiar with the Des Moines debate, the NH debate at St Anselm's, the speeches at the Jefferson/Jackson Day dinner in IA etc. At this 'retail politics level', Obama runs a lot stronger, suggesting that under the kind of closer scrutiny of a national nominee rather than the people who just hear the word "Clinton" and support that as the most likely, Obama runs strongly.

Furthermore, the huge front-loading of the primaries on TT (Tsunami Tuesday) means that it is all-but-impossible for an insurgent candidate like Obama to get ahead -- ie predictably all but insuring Hillary Clinton's nomination by the way the primaries were set up. Further, as it happens, the 'orphan primaries' where campaigning by the main candidates is taboo to the Democratic Party, actually reinforces this advantage to HRC over Obama.

These dynamics, <b>and NOT the Chinese Food syndrome</b>, most logically explain the divergence of NH IA and national polls. Obviously, if people tend to get sick of Obama, he would do WORSE locally, the way HRC does. You also notice that Edwards has no big advantage locally over his national numbers either.

Does this make sense to y'all? We should be talking about the way TT stacks the election in HRC's favor, and that the Democratic Party organization leadership COULD NOT BUT HAVE KNOWN THIS WHEN THEY SET THINGS UP THIS WAY........

[CTLawGuy]

62. most people aren't paying attention yet

NT