It's the Phoniness, not the "crying"

[sandnsea]

If you believe that was a real emotional moment, then that's your right or choice.

For those of us who don't, it isn't that a woman cried. Big deal. Nobody cares.

It's the phoniness, the manufacturing of a stereotype to play on people's sympathies - to convince you she's human, whatever.

Not to mention, we're seeing this clip today instead of the one where she tells you not to have "false hopes" about your country.

It's not the tears. It's the phoniness that reinforces negative stereotypes about women. That's what some of us are pissed about.

Except those who think it's their job to say any damn thing to beat another candidate and wish you guys would just shut the hell up.

[Joe the Revelator]

1. Well said. K/R

[HeraldSquare212]

2. Yup, and I was convinced it was phony when someone pointed out

that she managed to choke out Edwards' slogans during her emotional moment. Very calculated.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. "to convince you she's human"

If you need to be convinced that a woman is human, you don't need DU, you need a psychiatrist.

[sandnsea]

6. You would fall under that last sentence n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

19. meeeeooow

[Beausoir]

44. Best post of the day! Must read!

[Mr_Monday]

50. if they had said that about Edwards

or Obama or any other male candidate, would you have said that?

[The_Casual_Observer]

56. I probably wouldn't have even noticed it.

[K Gardner]

4. I have been absolutely blown away by the "crying" posts.. I am SO glad to see that

somebody saw it the way I did. It was as fake as that voice and soft fuzzy lighting she used in the last campaign ad for Iowa. I don't give a crap if any of them shed a tear.

I was trying to find that hilarious post one of our DUers put up just a few days ago about: Three pieces of advice for HRC's campaign. #2 was "cry". It was the first thing I thought of and think of each and every time I see that. So K&R.

[Joe the Revelator]

5. Hey "likability' stunts need to stop

I mean, is this really how bad Mark Penn is?

[Lugnut]

55. Apparently. n/t

[Didereaux]

7. I think you are wrong this time, and I am NOT now, nor ever have been

an admirer of Hillary Clinton. Janet Reno and Ginzberg still scare me(noooooo I am not a sexist, Golda Meier was one of the best world leaders of her time, Eleanor Roosevelt, one of the brightest and most influential of hers...and then Barbra Jordon who was simply great in all times) No I have serious philosopical differences with Hillary. BUT in all the years of watching her closely I can't remember anything at all that approached the honesty of that first part of the clip. Now spin it any way you like except that it was a dishonest display!

[sandnsea]

8. Oh puhleeze,

You have done nothing but campaign for Hillary on this board and attack everybody else.

[Didereaux]

13. I attack when the goddam fools make a mistake in campaigning...

Up until the pressure was put on fully Clinton had made few errors other than to assume she was inevitable. You know its jackasses who are unable to look past their own views or judge a persons life work based upon one or two events they disagree with who in FACT are the source of the votes that put BUSH into office twice. Fuck you and it was stolen BS, if nearly 50% of the voters had not cast their ballot for Bush it would never have been close enough to steal. And the ones who voted for him, particularly the second time around are people that display exactly, to a T the type of reasoning you have displayed. You know almost nothing about the system, even less about the people running(other than what you get from MSM and blogs at campaign time. You never read, you are poorly educated and you ARE the average American voter. We may indeed be Rome II.

[Joe the Revelator]

10. LOL

You're quite obviously a Hillary supporter and I base that on your week's worth of posts. Smart game you're playing though, for what its worth.

[Didereaux]

15. a weeks worth? look at my past 6mos you jackass!

[Joe the Revelator]

28. What would that prove? That you just made up your mind recently

Elephant!

[aquart]

57. Fanatics cannot be convinced.

If you oppose the object of their devotion...well, there were those worshippers of Kali.

Their first spin didn't work, they're on to the second. Anyone who thinks an administration with this kind of supporters will be different from Bush's...eh. Looks the same to me.

[rudy23]

9. The crying didn't bother me as much as her wheeling back into the "I have experience, he doesn't"

part of the script. That made it seem unnatural. The crying itself seemed real, and genuine. The segueway into her talking points--not as much.

[HooptieWagon]

14. Yes, and if I was voting for first lady

I'd give HRC's experience a nod over BO... but for president I'll take any other Dem's judgement over HRC's.

[bellasgrams]

21. I want a President that has experience. Bush had no experience

and look at the mess we're in. Obama will have his time, but Edwards has dirty hands. I don't think I could vote for him under any circumstances after all his bashing.

[sandnsea]

27. Hillary's experience is why I don't want her

She says she'll stop China dumping shoddy products, but the Clintons opened the door to US corporate expansion into China.

She says she'll do something about outsourcing, but she's cozy with all the biggest Indian outsourcers.

She says she'll stop the war, but she was over there saying "stay the course" when John Kerry was arguing to get troops out by summer 2005.

She says she'll expand college opportunity, which is exactly what they said the "Hope" college tax credit was supposed to do.

She says tax credits are the answer to health care, but it wasn't the answer to college.

Her experience is her problem. It sucks.

[aquart]

58. He's a first termer. Lovely how you neglect her Senate experience.

Maybe because there's twice as much as Barack's?

[hedgehog]

31. Check thois clip and note how she finishes up with a "just us girls" moment!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2008/01/07/VI2008010700846.html

[PassingFair]

46. What bothered ME was the PINCHING of the "its personal" line

DIRECTLY from Edward's debate triumph the night before.

What chutzpah!



LEAVE HILLARY ALONE!!!

[bvar22]

54. I agree!

That was one of Edwards BEST moments, and today, it shows up in Hillary's campaign?
Coincidence?...I think not!

And people wonder why we doubt Hillary's sincerity.

[PassingFair]

61. I swear, I almost...

threw up in my mouth a little when she
so blatantly recycled that line before
it was even cold.

:puke:

[pnwmom]

11. She didn't cry. Her voice cracked a little, that was all.

And now it's a pile-on from all the people who were criticizing her for being too cold.

[sandnsea]

20. Pssht, I criticized her for being a calculating phony

Which is all I saw this morning, more of the same.

[pnwmom]

24. Maybe you should try cleaning your lens. n/t

[sandnsea]

25. It's not fogged up with phony tears n/t

[pnwmom]

29. Something's wrong with it because there are NO tears of any sort.

Maybe you need a new prescription.

[dailykoff]

30. I heard it and if I didn't know it was a supposed to be a Kodak moment

I would have thought it was satire. You think she just came up with that tear jerking line? Along with all the other lines, many plucked from other peoples speeches, she's tossed over the last 48 hours?

These are the Clintons, remember?

[HooptieWagon]

12. The tears were real

she was crying over her doomed candidacy...

As to the direction the country is going, she supports and has voted for more of the same, so she has no right to cry over that.

[MindMatter]

23. Exactly

The Clintons and the Bushes look at this country differently than we do. They have an entitlement mentality. No ordinary person would have had the chutzpah to call herself a New Yorker and run to be their Senator. No ordinary politician would look at her negatives and still say that this ought to be her campaign to lose. It takes a whole different level of ego to make that work.

All politicians have egos. You cannot campaign without one. But this Clinton thing goes way beyond that. She, her husband, and their DLC entourage thought they had everything greased for their triumphant return to the White House.

Write it down. Today was the day she realized it is not happening. She is down double digits in NH and she is falling fast nationally. Bill may have been able to orchestrate a comeback, but this year's compressed schedule makes it impossible to recover from her free fall.

You don't have to win the first two, but you can't go from 15 points up to 10 points down and pull out of that dive by Super Tuesday. Ain't happening.

She understands that. The tears were real. I'm glad she will not be our candidate. And I honestly feel her pain.

[NoSheep]

34. good post. bravo.

:applause:

[NoSheep]

35. Can I post again? Magnanimously said!!!

Bravo!

[kskiska]

39. Bobby Kennedy had the chutzpah to run for the Senate in New York n/t

[MindMatter]

45. "I knew Bobby Kennedy. Bobby Kennedy was a friend of mine ..."

[frazzled]

16. If that wasn't real, then she's a better actress than Meryl Streep

And we know she is not a good actress.

This is getting me really mad, and I am not even voting for her. But that was a real and passionate moment, which showed how much she cares about this country and this race.

[sandnsea]

17. Tough lady, gentle lady, "your girl", gauzy beauty,

coy giggler, and now a crier.

Yeah, she's a change agent alright.

[thoughtcrime1984]

18. K&R phony, triangulating, posturing, garbage

.

[Yael]

22. Thank you

[dailykoff]

26. K/R

That's a very civil way of putting it. :thumbsup:

[Rockholm]

32. You are such a broken record.

[NoSheep]

33. Exactly. That wasn't crying. I know crying. But godforbid you should

mention anything negative about her...lest the Feminism 101 students rise up and shout. I really regret that it is that way...but it is.

As a feminist, I'm offended that the first woman who ever really had a shot at it has blown it.

I don't see tearing up as a negative, but faking it chaps my ass. I was going to say I wasn't surprised and then I realized, I am. I thought she had more faith in her own point of view.

I'd like to add I've been in some interesting conversations about how our candidates have to hold back their true feelings due to media spin (take the ridiculous case of the Howard Dean yell or just the general rovian spin the corporate media can put on things)
But I just saw the tears, along with the Edwardian: "this is personal" quote, as fake...and having her mention Al-Ki-Dee later just cemented the fear I have as to her disingenuousness. I prefer disingenuosity but the grammar and spelling police are out in force. I expect a spelling and grammar test (no DU'er left behind) if she wins.
.
edited because, Dammit! I misspelled "and"

[dailykoff]

36. And now an up close and personal interview with Diane Sawyer

all in the same freaking' day. What a spontaneous gal!

[GreenArrow]

37. if it's fake crying then it's just the latest in a long line

of stupid decisions by the Clinton campaign, precisely because it plays up the stereotype of women as weak, inconstant emotional creatures who break down in a crisis and cannot be depended on.

[oasis]

38. "Cattiness" also "reinforces negative sterotypes about women".

:evilgrin:

[MarkInLA]

40. sandnsea, you've proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt...

...you're as cold as ice. Colder than Hillary could ever pretend to be.

[sandnsea]

47. I love people who viciously attack

thinking they're exhibiting some kind of moral superiority while calling me filthy names.

Who else have you said this to?

Why ME and nobody else? I'm not the only one who thinks this was the phoniest moment in politics.

[Avalux]

41. Agree - well said. n/t

[Beausoir]

42. You are full of shit.

As usual.

[sandnsea]

48. See #47, it applies to you too n/t

[Beausoir]

49. Umm..you are incoherent. What does #47 have to do with me?

Jesus. TRY and keep up! You have ALOT of hate to spread around, a LOT of paranoia to foster.

You are definitely gonna need a bigger boat!

[sandnsea]

51. You attack me and I'm the hater, that's hysterical n/t

[Beausoir]

52. I will not let you get away with that. You have been spewing paranoid hatred for months.

[sandnsea]

60. Against HILLARY, not individual DUers the way you just did n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

43. I have never seen such ugliness towards a Democratic candidate

Just when I think I can't get more outraged. You guys suck

[Beausoir]

53. They are swine of the first order. But, as every strong woman knows, we don't quit.

[aquart]

59. Don't they ooze unity?

[HamdenRice]

62. The tears meant: Bwaaaa! I'm not getting what I'm ENTITLED to!

Whether the emotion was real or not, her words were utterly phony and a complete turn off. She said basically that she sees what's going on -- yeah right, now that you're losing. If she sees what's going on, she should have been calling out this illegal regime for years, rather than doing double talk, marking time while the "inevitable" unfolded.

And she said some guy drove from NY to NH to thank her for saving jobs in New York? WTF?!?! How does a US senator "save jobs" in New York?

Maybe her choking up was real. But I suspect it wasn't because she cares soooo muuuch, but because of her disappointment that the deal she's had with Bill since 1992 -- that she would help him and stand by him no matter what the Clenis did, and she would get her turn to be president -- isn't going to work out.

She's not inevitable.

This last week I've been wondering what the hell were the Clintons thinking in coming up with a campaign plan that stressed her (1) raising more money than anyone, (2) intimidating other politicians into endorsing her with their machine and (3) thereby proclaiming herself inevitable?

Does anyone really want to vote for someone because they have no choice? I remember as soon as she announced, DUers were wondering, why are they ramming Hillary down our throats? DU turned out to be prophetic.

It was a catastrophically dumb campaign coming from two otherwise politically saavy people.

[DrFunkenstein]

63. Where Are Her Tears For Our Soldiers and The Iraqi Civilians?

Hell, I'd settle for an apology.

[Leopolds Ghost]

64. I think Clinton is genuinely under a lot of stress from years of keeping her feelings invisible

In deference to a fake campaign trail emotionalism engineered by the consulting class (which is even worse than the stress of the stiff-upper-lip style maintained by the British Aristocracy, at least they don't have to pretend to be chipper.)

That said, I don't agree with her worldview and i find the situation she's railing against to be something I don't share, but if I were trapped on her side of the political line and forced to stick with a losing cause (forced to carry the flag for the Beltway Dem Establishment which lost credibility in 2006 and desperately wants to prove it can squeeze out a victory based on a return to Clinton era values and priorities) I'd probably want to cry too because I know
what it's like to have "your baby" taken out of your hands and insist that you have excluded yourself, by dint of
forceful argumentation on behalf of the old system, from the ranks of new management.