Trinity United Church of Christ

[JDPriestly]

I am white and not familiar with Black Liberation Christianity. Obama supporters, is there such a thing as Black racism? If so, how would you define it? If I said I am a German person (because my ancestors came from Germany several generations ago) and I am "true to my native land," would you feel I was been German-nationalist or even racist? Please explain this. I understand that W.E.B. DuBois was a prominent African-American writer, but he actually joined the Communist Party at the age of 93 according to Wikipedia. Why does the Trinity United Church of Christ name him as a source for their beliefs about social justice?

What do you think Republicans will do with this information?

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

1. A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2. A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

Mission Statement: What Trinity Is About

Trinity United Church of Christ has been called by God to be a congregation that is not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that does not apologize for its African roots! As a congregation of baptized believers, we are called to be agents of liberation not only for the oppressed, but for all of God’s family. We, as a church family, acknowledge, that we will, building on this affirmation of "who we are" and "whose we are," call men, women, boys and girls to the liberating love of Jesus Christ, inviting them to become a part of the church universal, responding to Jesus’ command that we go into all the world and make disciples!

We are called out to be "a chosen people" that pays no attention to socio-economic or educational backgrounds. We are made up of the highly educated and the uneducated. Our congregation is a combination of the haves and the have-nots; the economically disadvantaged, the under-class, the unemployed and the employable.

The fortunate who are among us combine forces with the less fortunate to become agents of change for God who is not pleased with America’s economic mal-distribution!

W.E.B. DuBois indicated that the problem in the 20th century was going to be the problem of the color line. He was absolutely correct. Our job as servants of God is to address that problem and eradicate it in the name of Him who came for the whole world by calling all men, women, boys and girls to Christ.

http://www.tucc.org/mission.htm

Du Bois was investigated by the FBI, who claimed in May of 1942 that "is writing indicates him to be a socialist," and that he "has been called a Communist and at the same time criticized by the Communist Party."<19>

Du Bois visited Communist China during the Great Leap Forward. Also, in the 16 March 1953 issue of The National Guardian, Du Bois wrote "Joseph Stalin was a great man; few other men of the 20th century approach his stature."

Du Bois was chairman of the Peace Information Center at the start of the Korean War. He was among the signers of the Stockholm Peace Pledge, which opposed the use of nuclear weapons. In 1950, he ran for the U.S. Senate on the American Labor Party ticket in New York and received 4% of the vote. He was indicted in the United States under the Foreign Agents Registration Act and acquitted for lack of evidence. W. E. B. Du Bois became disillusioned with both black capitalism and racism in the United States. In 1959, Du Bois received the Lenin Peace Prize. In 1961, at the age of 93, he joined the Communist Party USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._E._B._Du_Bois

How do Obama supporters plan to deal with this?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. This bullshit again?

Jeez louise.

[msongs]

it's african/race content is irrelevant. otherwise just the usual bible thumping stuff

if you are in the christian thing you will like it, if not in the christian thing, it will be of little interest.

Msongs

[JDPriestly]

16. Compare to the website of the First AME in Los Angeles

First African Methodist Episcopal Church, Los Angeles is the oldest church founded by African Americans in the City of Angels. In 1872 Ms. Biddy Mason received the vision from God to establish a church that would minister to the mind, body and soul of all who would join that small band of believers. That vision and that small band have grown to what is now a congregation of more than 19,000 members and several dozen ministries within 13 corporations that bless and reach tens of thousands of seekers in greater metropolitan Los Angeles.


Element_5680a.jpg

Built on the foundation laid by Bishop Richard Allen who in the City of Philadelphia in 1787 started the movement that later became the African Methodist Episcopal Church, FAME Church finds joy in being the "First To Serve." We also strive to be the first in love, first in faith, and first in devotion to God and all God's people.

http://www.famechurch.org/index.cfm/PageID/343/index.html

I have known people who attend to AME. They are wonderful. They work and contribute to the community. I never heard them talk about W.E.B. DuBois although maybe they also admire him. Was he a Christian before he became a Communist? Apparently he moved to Ghana where he died. If I am "surprised" by this, if this is unfamiliar to me, then I assure you many, many Americans will have difficulty understanding where this is coming from and where is going.

I need more than just a shrug in explanation. Please help me here.

[yardwork]

25. W. E. B. DuBois was a remarkable man - someone I admire greatly.

P.S. It is not illegal to be a communist. Many people were communists in the early 20th century. Maybe more people should take a look. Capitalism isn't going all that well.

[creeksneakers2]

35. Most Americans are adult enough to understand

that disagreeing with somebody about one thing doesn't mean that the person will never have anything of value to offer. Those who can't listen to anything from someone they disagree with end up listening to Rush Limbaugh or Fox News and wind up stupid. If we only listen to the people we already agree with, how could we possibly learn anything?

[JDPriestly]

37. It isn't about agreeing or disagreeing. The question is whether

the Trinity church is racist in its mission and outlook or not. Someone who belongs to that church might be able to answer this. Someone might be able to explain this. And I don't want to hear about liberation theology. I know what that is. I have not issue with that aspect. If you want to know what I think, I think that no one needs liberation more than we white Americans. But that is not the issue. I want to know whether Obama's church welcomes whites of all backgrounds as well as blacks. Or is it essentially an organization only for African-Americans?

[creeksneakers2]

49. I'm white

What do I need liberated from?

[JDPriestly]

51. Well if you are on DU you probably don't need liberation, but

a lot of white people (and people of color) need liberation from the likes of Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly, That is what I meant.

[Adelante]

2. Deal with what?

[no name no slogan]

3. YAY! I get to use this again!

[LostinVA]

5. Damn -- I thought it was the rickroll

[no name no slogan]

7. Nah. That's what the sigline is for

:P

[Critters2]

4. One quote of DuBois upsets you this much?

After all, DuBois was right in this instance. The great problem of the 20th Century WAS racism. Oh, and the FBI also investigated MLK and Robert Oppenheimer for being communists. And we know what sneaky commies they were! :eyes:

[JDPriestly]

6. But they could quote someone who didn't convert to Communism.

How about Martin Luther King? He said lots of things about inequality and economic justice. Why do they pick DuBois? I am trying to understand this. I think the Republicans will make a lot out of this. What is Obama's response?

[Critters2]

13. Convert to communism? Communism is not a religion.

This one quote by DuBois gets it right. That's why they used it. I know Obama's pastor, he's a colleague of mine. He's never been unkind or racist or anything to me. His church calling itself "black" is no more offensive or worrisome than my home church calling itself "German", which they do because they are. Many, probably most churches in this country have clear ethnic roots. People are only made nervous by Black churches calling themselves "African".

Critters
surrounded by the scary Norwegian Lutherans :scared:

[JDPriestly]

17. Thanks. Your experience is reassuring.

I'm a Unitarian and grew up a middle western Methodist. I have never heard this kind of language from any church before although Unitarians are not at all conservative.

[yardwork]

26. Maybe they picked DuBois because he is highly respected.

You need some more edumacation. Only a moran would lack respect for DuBois. I'm series.

[JDPriestly]

31. I assure you. I am quite well educated. But I am older. DuBois is not

someone that I know much about other than occasionally hearing him quoted. I also assure you that Republicans will make a lot out of this. How will Obama respond. Democrats may not care. But can you imagine how Rove will relish this?

Now, I'm not saying it can't be dealt with. But it appears that DUers responding to this post haven't really thought this through. I believe that Obama's race is not bar to his election -- especially because he has a lot of young supporters. But his affiliation with a church that people who are not African-American might at first glance view as racist could be a serious problem. Do white people also attend Trinity? Can they join? Are there any? What do they have to say about their experience in the church?

[FrenchieCat]

33. DuBois is a figure in History......

Du Bois is way older than you!

Why you don't know who he is seems to be based on your lack of knowledge......

Fuck Rove. He goes to church too....or does he? :shrug:

[EffieBlack]

72. W.E.B. DuBois was one of the most brilliant, inluential, and prescient thinkers of the 20th Century

I agree - only a moran would lack respect for him. And it's a damned shame that so many so-called liberals seem to know so little about him.

Anyone interested in public policy, politics, government, civil rights, sociology or any other topic related to people should learn about this man.

Three good places to start -
1. "The Souls of Black Folk"
2. "The Autobiography of W.E.B. DuBois" (he actually wrote three autobiographies/memoirs - I guess that's what happens when you live to be 95)
3. "His Day is Marching On" (written by his widow, Shirley Graham DuBois)

[alfredo]

48. It could be that the church was founded before MLK came on the scene,

and before Communism became The Great Satan.

Holding on to Africa is saying they were ripped out of Africa, but Africa was not ripped out of them.


If you've ever been to Africa, you won't be able to get it out of you. It is home, even to this green eyed Euro. The Acacia is in our DNA

[JDPriestly]

52. I've seen the movies. It looks beautiful.

[alfredo]

81. It touches something primal in all of us. We recognize something older

than human history.

[K Gardner]

8. For the love of Pete... sheesh.

[IndianaJones]

9. this is racist tripe. nt.

[The Ghost]

10. My father ...

is a minister at a United Church of Christ in New Hampshire actually (also has been in West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Massachusetts), and all I can say is the UCC is one of the most liberal church out there. Thats as much as I know. For the record, both my parents are voting for Barack.

[JDPriestly]

18. I know. That is why I am a bit surprised for a church to

identify so strongly with one race. I know that UCs accept gay people (as do we Unitarians). So I would like an explanation. I am not flaming. I want to know whether this church has white as well as black members. I believe that the AME in Los Angeles does. I know at least that white people are welcome at their services.

[Critters2]

19. Don't know about other whites, but the Conference minister

who is white, has her membership there. But, imo, some of that is pandering to the largest church in the conference.

Oops, my cynicism is showing!!

[The Ghost]

23. Absolutely

I mean up in NH and when we lived in MA, there were not many black people. One of our town selectman was black and he went to our church in MA, but in general, not a lot of black people in the small town suburbs. But I can say when we lived in WV, there were a lot of black people at our church, no doubt about it.

[EffieBlack]

73. Why would you be surprised about a church identifying with one race - especially blacks?

Throughout our history, blacks were excluded from white churches (Dr. King used to say that 11:00 on Sunday was the most segregated hour in America). So we formed our own churches and created our own church traditions. Just like white folks of different religions, we have passed our churches and worship traditions down through generations and it is a part of culture.

It is important to understand that celebrating, embracing and respecting black culture is NOT racist and does not mean that we dislike or disdain white culture. When you are a minority operating in a majority culture that rarely celebrates, embraces or respects our own culture - and in fact, often dismisses and denigrates it, it is important to maintain these cultural touchstones, even if it's just in small pockets in our lives.

Black churches are a critical part of our culture and in no way are racist or exclusionary. In fact, Obama's church has many white members.

One of the good things about Obama's rise is that it may give us all an opportunity to learn more about one another - especially for whites to learn more about blacks. Perhaps people will move beyond simple kneejerk reactions about his church and make an effort to learn more about the history, origins, meanings and purpose of the black religious tradition.

[1corona4u]

80. They don't. Not that I could find....

I looked at the same info months ago, and they don't have any white members. Now, if this was an all white church, and a black person walked in, and they said; sorry, 'this church is only for whites', you know as well as I do, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton would be there before the door closed.

Double standard bullshit. By the way, it's also Oprah's church.

Obama supporters may not like this topic, but it's a fact.

Call them and ask them. It's worth the call.

Fox (go figure)covered this a while ago;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZXeNk7H3u4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8YmQUqj15g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0q1t6W8-lM


I guess people have to make up their own minds.

[abburdlen]

11. I'm probably slow

but what does the Trinity United Church of Christ have to do with Barack Obama?

[Critters2]

14. It's his home church. He's a member. nt

[Adelante]

15. It's where he and his family go to church

Horrors. I guess.

[indimuse]

12. Here is a video link with Obama's From Trinity United Church of Christ

Here is a link with Obama's Rev From Trinity United Church of Christ on....Fox Noise (NO I AM NOT A RIGHTY..NOR DO I WATCH/CONDONE PEOPLE..ESPECIALLY MY MOTHER TO WATCH FOX!!)

But I saw this interview...at 1:27 is when my ears perked up and I had to rewind and I heard it again. Obama will have to explain. This seems quite strange??? He says that "CHRISTIANITY IS WHITE AMERICA!" whwhwhwhhhwhat? see for yourself then he goes on ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYkI_0Dn4Uo&feature=rela...

[JDPriestly]

22. This is not reassuring. The pastor did not explain himself very well.

[indimuse]

70. no he did/nt and I find him..

very arrogant and combative..

But what I think the RW media FOX et'al have already in the works is where they make a claim Africa is their FIRST and only committment and HOW CHRISTIANITY IS...WHITE AMERICA and they are NOT A CHRISTIAN CHURCH.... That according to most...IS racism. Flip it around...

THIS I'm afraid is going to huge and they are ALL holding on until the right time. Then the flood gate of info on Obama will flow...so much neg will be thrown at THE OBAMA'S.

[yardwork]

79. Oh for crying out loud.

This is blatant racism. You should be ashamed.

[Colobo]

20. More of this? Oh Lord...

[JDPriestly]

21. I went to a white Methodist church in Alabama in the late '50s.

I never heard or saw so much discussion of race there. There were no African-American members, but there was not official statement that the church was white not even then. I don't think it is normal for a church to identify itself with a specific race. I can understand that a church has services conducted in a language other than English, but I can't understand that Christianity is identified with any specific race. I thought that was what the whole civil rights movement was about. Getting rid of those kinds of divisions.

[yardwork]

24. Well, you're wrong. I don't know how else to say it.

1. Despite the "whole civil rights movement," racial divisions still exist in the U.S. I know that this may be hard to believe, but if you were black, you wouldn't have trouble believing it.

2. You went to a white Methodist church in Alabama in the 1950s, and you think that there was no "official" statement that the church was white. Honey, are you really that naive? Your church didn't need an "official" statement that black people weren't welcome, because everybody knew they weren't welcome.

3. You don't think it's "normal" for a church to identify itself with a specific race? Do you know why black churches were invented in the first place? So that black people could go to church, since they weren't welcome in the "regular" churches, which were reserved for white people.

Of all the sorry things to dredge up against Obama, this may be the sorriest. It's pathetic. Drop it.

[JDPriestly]

30. You are correct that blacks would not have been welcome.

I say that remembering my own experience as a "Yankee" very out of place and unhappy with segregation and racism in the south, young as I was.

But contrast the focus on serving a specific racial group that is found at Obama's church with this statement from Edwards' church

Welcome to Edenton Street United Methodist Church! We extend a sincere welcome to every person seeking to live the Christian life. We invite you to worship, to grow in faith, and to serve God through our fellowship.

Edenton Street Church is a diverse group of people united as Christ's followers. We are dedicated to personal fulfillment and growth in worship, study, and fellowship. Therefore, we seek, as a congregation and as individuals, to glorify God through proclaiming the Good News, serving the needs of our community, and sharing the love of God in the world.

http://www.esumc.org/About/Default.aspx

This is inclusive. My church is inclusive. (I'm Unitarian.) My mother's Methodist church is inclusive. I would like some reassurance that Obama is walking the walk. I want to know whether he chooses to attend a church that serves a specific race or whether he, like me, chooses to attend a church that does not define its mission as service to a specific race. I thought that the whole civil rights movement was about leaving racial barriers behind.

By the way, the younger generation of my family (my children and nephews and nieces) is mixed in terms of race. I do not want to see their children live in a world that is divided into groups based on race.

I firmly believe that Jesus was not focused on race or nationality. Maybe I'm wrong.

[EffieBlack]

74. "There were no African-American members, but there was not official statement that the church

was white not even then."

One of the advantages of being in the majority, is that you need not put out an "official statement" of your whiteness. It just is. And it sounds like in this case, everyone understood it without being told.

[Honeycombe8]

27. That Republican e-mail, again? (Note: Wikepedia is not a news source.)

First, Check out snopes.com. You'll find discussions about the different aspects of the Republican e-mails making the rounds.

Second, I don't have any problem with any of that, anyway. I know the Republicans will. But what's your point? Do you think the Republicans are going to be voting the Democratic ticket?

I don't think it matters that a prominent Af. Am. writer revered by a black church became a communist shortly before he died.

[JDPriestly]

36. I did not read a Republican e-mail. I just wondered about the churches

of Obama and Edwards -- actually, I had more questions about Edwards' church. I started, however, by looking at the website of Obama's church. I am very liberal when it comes to religion. I think I pretty much agree with the religion of Jefferson. Did you know he prepared his own version of the gospels. He took out all the myths that he could and tried to identify Jesus' teachings.

[ruggerson]

28. What's wrong with people being proud of their heritage?

I don't get what people would find objectionable.

[JDPriestly]

38. Nothing is wrong with being proud of your heritage. There is something

wrong with excluding people of other races. I am trying to find out whether Obama's church excludes people of other races or whether, like most churches, it serves and welcomes and includes people of all races. I can't seem to get an answer to that question.

[creeksneakers2]

44. A Greek Orthodox Church had an open house near here

I went and it was very interesting. They said all are welcome to even come to Mass, but that only Greeks could be full members. They said there were other Orthodox Churches for other nationalities. Their religion covers a substantial part of the globe that way. We have a Korean church near here. Lots of ethnic groups have their own churches. I've never heard anybody calling it racist before.

Does Obama's church exclude whites? I read their website before and didn't see anything like that. It looked more to me like they were serving the community they are located in, as any church should.

[JDPriestly]

53. I would be surprised if only people of Greek descent could join

the Greek Orthodox church. It may be that you have to go through a process to convert, but that would be unusual. You can even convert to Judaism if you wish.

[Critters2]

54. Everyone is welcome to worship and join.

I know a white woman who is a member.

[JDPriestly]

58. Thanks. I appreciate your answer. The church is not racist then.

[Critters2]

61. No. I've served on conference committees with the pastor,

and he's never been anything but kind and warm to me...and I'm so white I glow in the dark!! If Trinity were racist, it would not belong to a predominantly white denomination. It serves the people in its neighborhood, which is 90+% black.

[ruggerson]

63. You mentioned in another thread that the congregation supports marriage equality

this is Obama's own congregation?

[Critters2]

66. I just checked the denomination's website (ucc.org),

and Trinity is not listed as "Open and Affirming". So, no, they probably are not supportive of marriage equality. This isn't absolute proof, though. The church I served before coming here had never voted to be "ONA", but had no problem with my doing weddings. The church I now serve is Open and Affirming, so yes, I can and do do glbt weddings. This differs by congregation. But congregations which are strongly opposed have mostly left the denomination by now. Trinity is deeply and actively loyal to the UCC.

[ruggerson]

67. thanks for checking that out

it would be interesting to know one way or the other.

[Critters2]

68. Even in the UCC, African American congregations tend to be

more conservative about sexuality and gender issues than white congregations. It's been a real struggle in some conferences to keep both types of minorities satisfied.

[EffieBlack]

76. Obama's church DOES NOT EXCLUDE ANYONE!

In fact, many white people attend the services. I used to attend this church and know this for a fact.

[FrenchieCat]

29. I'm sorry.....

I don't see a problem here. Could you pin point it for me?

W.E. B. Du Bois is a revered Black figure (the other side of the coin of Booker T. Washington) and there is nothing that can be said bad about the man. He was opposed to the use of Nuclear Weapons. Was harassed by the American government, because he was judged as an Uppity Black man who believed in higher education for Black People....while Booker T. Washington believed in focusing more on trade school (therefore lowering a Black person's educational vision)

MLK was followed by the FBI. Should we be looking into that too?

What about Malcom X. He must have been really really scary to some, hey?

Do you think we cannot read?

That's like not liking Jimmy Carter because he is a Baptist...and making it out to be something strange rather than just another denomination of the Christian religion. :eyes:

All churches have mission statements, and many look quite similar to this.
Republicans can't do shit with a church who's main commitment is to loving Jesus Christ and committing to lift one another up no matter what one's class is....which is part of social justice.

This is a progressive board, and this post is totally ridiculous.

------------
Lord-ie, some Black man, after years of witnessing oppression decides to become a communist at 91. What shall we do mast'sa?

[JDPriestly]

39. My question is: Are whites of all backgrounds welcome as members at Obama's church?

Or does his church focus on serving one race? I worked for many years on a homeless project. My boss was African-American and very active in the African-American religious community. We had volunteers from various churches, especially "African-American" churches such as the AME in Los Angeles. I posted an excerpt from the AME here. Now, in fact most of their members are African-American. But, I never had a sense that the church was in anyway racist against white people like me. I always felt very comfortable with people from that church. I have not been able to get a straight answer to my question. Can you help? It isn't so much about DuBois although I can imagine that, at least to white people of my generation, he is not well known and certainly not viewed particularly positively. That may be unfair, but if I feel that way, liberal as I am, others will feel more ill at ease with the statements on Trinity's website than I do.

[Drunken Irishman]

47. I'm sure whites would not be turned away.

What you don't seem to get is that this church is really no different than a Greek Church, or a Polish one. Those churches have a proud tradition of supporting their native land. Hell, if you go into very Italian or Irish areas in this country, you'll often find that the Catholic Church has strong ties to both Italy and Ireland.

It isn't about race, more about their culture. People seem to forget that many Americans have no trouble flying the flag of Ireland, or celebrating their Irish heritage, but when the blacks do it, they're automatically racist towards whites.

[JDPriestly]

55. I think Polish Americans acknowledge and love their

Polish heritage, but they are Americans. I don't think they think of being loyal to Poland although they love it. I hope I'm wrong, but I got the impression that the Trinity UCC has a loyalty to Africa that is different. I hope you are right. I am married to someone who was actually born in a European country and who has dual citizenship, but he is loyal to America. He is not nationalistic about the country he was actually born in. He enjoys its heritage. If you go to the Goethe Institute or the Alliance Francaise, you are welcome even though you are not German or French. My question is whether white people or Asian people or hispanic people are welcome to join that church. I pass a Korean church every week on my way to a meeting and I note that they have a sign saying English speakers welcome. That seems appropriate to me.

[Drunken Irishman]

69. I don't think these people hate America.

They obviously love America, but love their homeland just as well.

Ask yourself this, what about all the Jews that support Israel? Is that really any different?

[FrenchieCat]

50. I belong to a "Black" church.....and sure enough, we have some White Members....

They are the ones that were interested in joining.

http://www.allen-temple.org/

OUR Mission Statement:

In obedience to the Great Commission of Matthew 28:19-20, given to us by the Founder of the church, Allen Temple Baptist Church seeks excellence in the ministry of Jesus by

Evangelizing all persons to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour;

Educating all Christians to grow into the moral and spiritual likeness of Jesus Christ through the aid of the Holy Spirit;

Enlisting all Allen Temple members in personally extending the
message and mission of God's love in Christ, throughout the world;


Allen Temple Baptist Church was organized in 1919 and has a rich heritage of making a positive difference in the lives of people in East Oakland, the Bay Area and around the world. Under the anointed leadership of Dr. J. Alfred Smith Sr., Allen Temple Baptist Church has grown from a membership of 500 to over 5,000, maintaining a trained and dedicated staff of ordained and lay ministry Christians.

One who visits Allen Temple will find membership open to all who will accept Christ as Savior and Lord.

[JDPriestly]

56. That is very inclusive. I think that is great. There is nothing

wrong with having "black" churches. As a white teenager in Mobile, Ala., I used to listen to the Sunday morning song sermons on WMOZ, the Black spot on your dial. I was a musician and that service spoke my true language. I could never have attended the services, but I was a regular radio listener. I would get up, listen to that, and then attend my own services where I sang classical music in the choir. So, I have no problem with that.

[Critters2]

59. His church is in an overwhelmingly black neighborhood and

has chosen to serve that population, which only seems reasonable, imo. But anyone is welcome to join.

[JDPriestly]

65. Thanks for the clarification. This article explains his views

in a very intelligent way: http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1546579,00.html

[Honeycombe8]

32. I looked up Du Bois.

Here's what I found, "David Levering Lewis chronicled Du Bois's first fifty years in his 1993 Pulitzer Prize-winning biography. The first African American to earn a postgraduate degree from Harvard; the release of his much discussed Souls of Black Folk; the Niagara Movement; his role in the founding of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People; and the famous intellectual give-and-take with Booker T. Washington were all events that put Du Bois on the map as a major thinker. The remaining 45-years of his life, unfortunately, were an embarrassment. It is these disgraceful years that David Levering Lewis covers in W.E.B. Du Bois: The Fight for Equality and the American Century, 1919-1963, his sequel to 1993's award-winning tome."

I personally don't think this is a big deal. Republicans will, but they wouldn't vote for him, anyway. BUT, having said that, it would be best if this situation didn't exist.

It will probably be Swiftboated vigorously. Du Bois doesn't really matter. You can see why a black church would revere the first black to graduate Harvard, and the black man who founded the NAACP. But what he did and said after that, like the biographer said, is not good. The person writing that went on to say that it is hard to think of an issue in the last half of Du Bois' life that he was not on the wrong side of.

Obama has been in politics for 10 years, now. It surely has come up before? His campaign staffers no doubt have discussed this with him? He has no doubt decided how to handle this?

If it were my church, I don't know that I'd even KNOW who my church revered. Who reads the background "about us" about his church. You go to church, listen to the sermons, chat with the other members, etc., etc.

[FrenchieCat]

34. We should be worried about ignorant religious bigots who might

want to be bigoted to another church?

What will it be next?

Don't elect Obama! His curly hair might be something that we have to answer to Rove?

I know, let's just elect a more acceptable Methodist with straight locks. Like there ain't nothing I can't dig up about that that I couldn't make "objectionable"....like they've got a picture of Jesus looking like George Clooney with long hair...when Jesus was a Jew from Israel.

[JDPriestly]

41. FrenchieCat, you are in denial. Based on the answers I have

received thus far, there is a problem here. I know you are a strong Obama supporter. You can stay in denial and lose or you can figure out how to deal with this. There is a big problem for Obama here. I'm hoping someone can give a good answer to my post. So far I have only seen evasions and insults. I did not write the text on the website.

[redwitch]

40. Wikipedia?

n/t

[HughMoran]

42. Jesus, 4th time in 2 days for this

Holy mackerel people, give it a rest!

[JDPriestly]

57. I did not see the previous posts. I think my question is legitimate.

Obama must have an answer for people who ask about this. I'm sure I'm not the first who has never seen this kind of thing before.

[redwitch]

43. I found this:

Throughout the first half of the 20th Century, W.E.B. DuBois continued to work as an author, lecturer and educator. His teachings were an important influence on the Civil Rights Movement of the'50s and'60s. Ironically, DuBois died on the eve of the historic march on Washington in 1963. Actor and playwright Ossie Davis read an announcement of his death to the 250,000 people gathered the next day at the Washington Monument.


-African American history of Western New York

[LucyParsons]

45. How would you feel about this: ?

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Hebrew and Unapologetically Jewish... Our roots in the Jewish religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are a Jewish people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Jewish worship service and ministries which address the Jewish Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

1. A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2. A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO ISRAEL.
5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF JEWISH PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

[JDPriestly]

60. I would not have a problem provided that non-Jews could convert.

As long as non-Jews can convert, the "church" is not discriminating based on ethnicity or race. Of course, Jewish identity is not racial. It is strictly religious, so the hypothetical does not work in that respect. Someone answered my question. Trinity does not discriminate based on race. The poster knows someone who is white and who is a member. Assuming that to be true, obviously the church does not discriminate based on race. The language on the website leads a reasonable person to think they might be exclusive, but if they have white members, clearly, they are not discriminating based on race. That is the crucial issue.

[Critters2]

62. This question has been answered. Why can't you let it go? nt

[abburdlen]

46. I want to thank the OP

He has helped me get a better sense of Obama.
I knew the rumors of 'OMG he's a Muslim" were garbage but didn't know much about the specifics of Obama's beliefs so I did some googling.

I found this piece in Time Magazine pretty informative on Obama's core beliefs. If anyone is really curious or has concerns about his views it would be well worth your while.

Of course if your just looking to make crap up about him, well it seems there's already plenty of that floating around.

[JDPriestly]

64. Thanks for the link to the Time article.

I like this:

What our deliberative, pluralistic democracy demands is that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals must be subject to argument and amenable to reason.

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1546579,00.html

I don't know about Obama's church and pastor, but I think Obama "gets it." He will need to make that clear to the world. The Time article is excellent, but not everyone has read it.

I had read that Obama's mother and grandparents were Unitarians (UU) at one point. That is my religion. I think that I expected the UCC church he would attend to be a liberal congregation like the UCC churches I have known about.

[cali]

71. Somehow I didn't expect to see this sad little tactic

from you. How disappointing.

[Onlooker]

75. I think there's a valid politifcal concern, but ....

... I can't see mainstream Republicans attacking a church too much and also I think Obama can talk about the need for poor black youth to take pride in their heritage. I think it's a problem for Obama only if he allows the bigots to spin it in a way that portrays Obama as a black nationalist (and I do think the right-wing will try to do things like that).

[Dawgs]

77. This racist garbage again?

[NoBorders]

78. Can't assume what Obama thinks/believes

Just because he attends this church. Maybe it's just 'the' church to go to in that area.