To all of those who can't understand why some of us think Hillary's moment was staged...

[Joe the Revelator]

Let me at least try to offer my rational:

Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton are known to do whatever it takes to win. You have a wannabe, but smart, adviser on DU say that he thought she should do this VERY thing. Are you trying to tell me that some dude on DU can think of something that the Clinton machine cannot?

You don't think this has worked out in her favor throughout the day? You don't see her milking this every chance she can, from Fox News to Diane Sawyer? What part of this entire exchange makes you think that his was genuine?


Like I said in another thread, this moment was genius, as evident on DU. It gets her in front of the camera all day. It makes it ok for her to go negative and best of all, no body can call her on it without getting brush backed for being heartless.

This is the first good move she's made in months, but its also ridiculously slimy. It has nothing to do with issues, it has nothing to do with qualifications, she's playing strictly on people's emotions.

I do think she used this too early though. It won't be enough for a 10 point bump, and as much as the narrative has switched to her today, it will switch right back to Obama after he wins tomorrow. This will be forgotten, and worse yet for Hillary, she can't use it again (like, say, right before Nevada) without coming off as highly transparent. If I was here, I would have saved it for the week between SC and Super Tuesday. It would have been more effective.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. I didn't actually read this post, I just checked around until I found

the word "Obama"

[goldcanyonaz]

4. lol! I've been doing that a lot lately.

[xultar]

7. I've had people(white liberals) tell me that they like OBAMA cuz they feel he's got soul.

I'm crackin cuz...I responded to them by sayin...why didn't you support Jessie, Al, or Carol. They had soul too.

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. Have you got soul Officer Kilvinski ?

"Honey, I got more soul than I can con-trol"

- George C. Scott

[xultar]

37. Opps...that's goin into my memory banks. Saaaaweet!

[catnhatnh]

62. If Barrack has "Soul" in the American....

..."Swing Low Sweet Chariot", "I been Down so long it Looks Like up to Me" sense, than my pasty, semi-nonexistant, 53 year old, white ass can DANCE....but it can't. He may be hip, he may be polished, but where I come from he sure ain't "hood"...All you're talking about is white folk's laughable attempt to "get it". Which IS funny...and maybe even sweet. I wouldn't mind if he won, but I back Edwards and love the "who's been down longer" discussions...

[Beausoir]

19. LOL! Do you think Wolsh knows we're on to him? Tee-hee.

Be vawwy vawwy qwiet!

[gdaerin]

66. Hahaha lol thanks!

[xultar]

2. IF she shows emotion it is staged, if she doesn't show it she's cold and has no feelings...

BLAH BLAH BLAH...I got it.

Apparently she can't possibly get emotional about getting her pants beat off her in IA and it is looking the same way in NH.

NO WAY COULD SHE SHOW EMOTION ABOUTTHAT SHIT...IT HAS TO BE STAGED....I mean she was just hootin and a hollerin about getting beat just the other day...OF COURSE IT WAS STAGED YOU IDIOTS...

Is that what you're sayin?

She can't possibly be upset about feelling that she let herself and her supporters down...she has no feelings so she can't cry, she's gotta go all OSCAR on our asses.

GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK.

[Joe the Revelator]

6. You're closing your eyes to a fact that this is a campaign

She hasn't given up yet. You all know this. And she was able to switch the attention back to her today. All day. It was a great move, if not too early, but a great move none the less, because people like you bought it hook line and sinker.

[xultar]

9. I'm not closing my eyes to that. But you are still hinting that it was an act.

Sorry. I don't think so. I'd hate to be the first woman candidate to get all wet faced on a public stump. That has to be a total bummer.

[Joe the Revelator]

Let me put it this way...if it was staged...

It was the most advantageous and well timed "mistake" in political history.

[madmunchie]

10. You know BOTH can be true, this can be a tactic AND this could be

HRC showing some vulnerability.....Why not? The stake are high enough and politicians will do just about whatever it takes to win along with after this long battle, she is getting tired? breaking a little? overwhelmed? I think both really does apply here. It may not be pretty, but it is believable.

[ixion]

3. IMO, nothing is 'real' about politics or politicians

everything is staged for effect. To be a politician of any caliber, you have to be a first class liar.

[ecstatic]

5. What question prompted her response? Does anyone know? nt

[Joe the Revelator]

8. Someone asked her "How do you do it?"

That was it.

[xultar]

15. That'd make me bust a few out of the old tear ducts. After being attacked by Rethugs she's

being attacked by her own...knowing that if she wins the nom she'll be attacked by both Rethugs and Liberals @ the same time.

If I were Hillary I'd tell all of them to go fuck themselves...quit the race sit back with some :popcorn: and laugh my fuckin ass off.

[Cameron27]

36. When someone offers the slightest kindness

when you're feeling beaten up, even if it's something as little as a woman asking who styled your hair because it looks so good, that brings tears faster than getting ripped to shreds.

[xultar]

40. so effin true. I burst in to tears just before I'm about to open a can of whoop-ass too.

That's why I think it is a little more genuine than people know also.

[JohnnyLib2]

48. That's the most common sense remark all day. Thanks!

My guess is that a lot of thoughtful people had the same reaction, if they watched the actual interchange.

[HooptieWagon]

50. i suspect "someone"...

was another Clinton campaign planted stooge...

really, its hard to accept the "crying incident" as an honest act when the entirity of her campaign has been staged and triangulated to maximum effect from the beginning.

[Catherine Vincent]

12. Geeze. How many threads are you goanna start about Hillary?

Get a life.

[Joe the Revelator]

14. Mature.

[xultar]

17. Nope. PERFECT.

[xultar]

18. PERFECT.

[Beausoir]

21. Can you count to infinity? 'Cuz that's how long he's going to keep trying this tired old shit.

[hisownpetard]

13. I would not even have clicked on this OP if not for the fact that Hillary, a couple seconds

into her 'moment,' made a point of saying, "This is *personal*, it's not just
political, it's not just public."

Sound familiar? (Think Edwards, in Saturday's debate).

I've never heard her use that word "personal" before and now she uses the same word that Edwards used (over and over, I might add) on Saturday.

Just seems a strange coincidence.

[xultar]

23. OH MY FUCKING GOD...you must have been abducted from a planet much like earth...

but where Edwards invented the word PERSONAL.

[Beausoir]

27. Well, that seals it! She STOLE Edwards' word!

[xultar]

31. Nope...only YOU are from that planet. On this earth...people can say shit

a particular word and it's not owned by anyone who said the exact same word a couple of days before.

[Beausoir]

41. I was kidding! I didn't think I needed to put the sarcasm tag on because of the absurdity of the

argument.

I was agreeing with you, albeit in a snarky way.

[xultar]

47. I can do snarky, but I just got done watching a Stargate Atlantis marathon...

so I had to finish it up. That ronan guy is hotter than a muthafucka...but I hear he doesn't take showers.BUMMER.

[Beausoir]

49. I've heard of this Stargate but have not watched it. Too many kids...too little time.

Do you watch Supernatural by any chance?

[hisownpetard]

39. He didn't invent it, but he used it, as I said, over and over and over during the last debate,

implying that Hillary was a career politician whereas, with him, his goals are based
on personal reasons.

Maybe that bothered Hillary to the extent that she wanted to get that information in, that it's "personal" for her, as well.

[Harper_is_Bush]

16. You didn't help anyone with your cynical explanation, I'll wager.

All situations should be judged on their own realities.

You are judging this with past rationals.

You are anti-Hillary, and are trying to appear rational and impartial.

[Joe the Revelator]

25. My reputation my precede me, but it doesn't mean I can't see the event for what it was

I say, with no illusions of my impartiality, that if any other candidate, even one that I supported, got away with something as slimy as this, I would make the same thread.

You can choose to believe that statement or not believe it, but I even have my limits.

[xultar]

26. As man...I think you'd have issues seeing shit for what it is where Hillary is concerned.

But that's just me.

[Harper_is_Bush]

29. What was it that convinced you she was not being genuine?

All you talked about were past things. You didn't actually refer to specifics about the appearance.

Give me a reasoned explanation as to why you interpret her choking up/tears as faked, please.

[xultar]

34. Hillary = not genuine, that's how he knew.

[Harper_is_Bush]

63. Moronic answer.

[xultar]

68. Oh...I needed the sarcastic remark. Got ya.

[Joe the Revelator]

35. Because of the timing, the nature of the question, and the fact that...

she had a canned response ready for any news outlet that was willing to put a camera in front of her face.

[Harper_is_Bush]

64. Ah, so nothing specific about what she said or how she appeared.

Thought so.

You're no better than Drudge.

[Thrill]

20. Moments after she releases a mean negative mailer

on Barack.

[xultar]

28. RIGHT... she hit the send button then broke out the onions and hit the road.

:rofl:

[Joe the Revelator]

32. You're being unbelievably naive

I know this isn't your first election.

[xultar]

46. Wolsh...have you ever been in a situation where you got you ass handed to you?

and afterwards someone shows you a bit of kindness and you tear up?

Probably not...

Have you ever been so angry that you've cried?

Probably not...

Well the rest of us humans have. IF you can't pry your ass off the hate Hillary track enough to see how it could be possible then you never were going t be able to see that it could be genuine.

You are way to transparent. There is nothing she can do to convince you of anything other than the shit you are willing to believe.

You are willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't have voted for the IWR. Why can't you give Hillary just this one?

[Joe the Revelator]

54. At the same time Hillary was voting for the IWR, Obama was speaking out against it

Furthermore, I've been around politics long enough to know a set up when it comes a long. Maybe if Hillary didn't spin this all day as another likeability stunt, I could begin to believe her.

[SaveElmer]

22. You are pretty full or yourself to think people would give a rats ass why you think it was staged..

Christ, your Hillary OCD just gets lamer by the day...

I don't know who your candidate is, but I imagine he hopes you never reveal your preference...you do them no credit...

[Joe the Revelator]

30. I don't care if anybody wants to know what I think or not...I still have the right to make the threa

Sorry if it pisses you off Elmer. We all had to sit though enough of your bullshit threads when Hillary was in the lead.

[SaveElmer]

33. Doesn't piss me off...

Makes me pity you...

I would consider it an honor if you just added me to your ignore list

[Joe the Revelator]

38. I've never sought you out Elmer...but you know how your ignore list works

Go ahead an add me to it, if you can help yourself from giving me attention.

[SaveElmer]

42. Your the one complaining about sitting through my posts...nt

[Joe the Revelator]

43. If you want to continue down the school yard path feel free to PM me

[Clintonista2]

51. His candidate is Bloomberg... I'm not kidding

He's already said that he will write in Bloomberg.

[Joe the Revelator]

53. Produce the post Lirwin

or just keep slinging shit.

[Clintonista2]

55. Right here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3870295#3870694

[Cameron27]

56. Wow

[Joe the Revelator]

59. You put a lot of work into that...

"If Clinton has the nomination, and Bloomberg runs, he gets my vote."

Thats my line. What part of that says that Bloomberg is my guy against every democrat, and more importantly, that I'd write him in? In fact, its pretty clear that I qualified my vote for him as being only if Hillary gets the nomination and he runs.

You're a liar.

[Clintonista2]

60. Well, he's not running so you would have to write him in, wouldn't you?

Geez, don't post stuff like that if you're gonna cry about getting called on it later.

[Joe the Revelator]

61. Thats some circular logic

The important part to take away from all of this is that I will not vote for Hillary under but a few circumstances.

But keep up with the lies Lirwin. They're awesome.

[GreenArrow]

24. Sure, why wouldn't she play up to

the stereotype that women are weak, overly emotional and unable to deal with stress? That's a brilliant strategy for a woman candidate running against a field full of men.

[rosesaylavee]

44. Are we talking the emotional moment or the staged

protest with the Iron My Shirts gang? Mark Penn ought to be fired. This is not a circus.

[Joe the Revelator]

45. Neither, all of this stuff just happened to take place the day before the primary

[rosesaylavee]

52. Well, if it works for her,

we'll soon have all the candidates tearing up and it will be one great maudlin circus.

If it was sincere, my apologies to HRC. But given the last 17 years of her very public life, not once has she teared up and I find it hard to believe this was not staged. It really disturbs me as she doesn't have to play this card.

[suston96]

57. "To all of those who can't understand why some of us think Hillary's moment was staged..."

Sorry, but way too many on the news channels are saying just the opposite. May not help her much tomorrow but as many times as it has played, it will sink in over the next few days all over the country.

The clearly sexist reactions around here and other forum boards is evidence of how effective her unrehearsed and unexpected display was.

[Tom Rinaldo]

58. "Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton are known to do whatever it takes to win."

No Wolsh they are not. That is a right wing talking point. That is from the same bucket of slime that claimed Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster. After all, why wouldn't she if she saw a political advantage in doing so? She's a Clinton after all. You did not invent this Right Wing attack meme, you latched onto it. And Bill Clinton allegedly was willing to "wag the dog" and start a war to distract voters from his sexual indiscretions also. Why not, if he saw a political advantage in doing so?

Bill and Hillary Clinton are known for fighting back against the Republican Noise machine, hard. That was the origin of this character assasination meme. They set up a campaign war room and they never let a single attack go unanswered. They fought hard and we as Democrats were proud of that. They as Republicans hated having a Democrat actually dare to counter them effectively, so from then on the Right has ruthlessly painted Bill and Hillary Clinton as being ruthless. That is where the meme comes from that "Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton are known to do whatever it takes to win".

The Clintons fight hard in political contests but so does every candidate, some more effectively than others. Every candidate makes mis-steps, some more damaging than others. Every candidate comes off as being too negative from time to time, and every losing candidate at least ponders whether they weren't negative enough. I am not naive, I have watched every candidate aim punches at the belt, not above the belt. None of them want to land punches above the belt if below the belt punches are more effective, so the real sweet spot is landing a punch on the belt where you achieve maximum effectiveness without making a foul. Obama does it, Edwards does it, Clinton does it. Sometimes they score, sometimes they miss high or low.

But no, I do not accept your open ended proposition that implies that the Clintons uniquely lack the morality to care what they do to win. I am tired of Democrats parroting that Right wing garbage against them. I am tired of a guilty until proven innocent double standard applied against Hillary Clinton and Hillary Clinton only.

[gdaerin]

65. good post

[Lone_Wolf]

67. Her "tears" kind of remind me of her disappearing "southern accent"

I don't believe either.

[xultar]

69. Obama does the disappearing "southern accent" too. I guess you don't believe him..

or is it o.k for black folks to fake the whole accent thing.