Frustrated Big Dog: "Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."

[jefferson_dem]

:nopity: :nopity:

President Clinton Sees Post-Iowa 'Tidal Wave,' Faults Press for Obama 'Fairy Tale'
Posted by Josh Gerstein
Mon, 7 Jan 2008 at 10:12 PM

Just hours after his wife got choked up on the campaign trail, President Clinton showed anger and frustration as he complained that the press has given a free pass to the nascent front-runner in the Democratic presidential contest, Senator Obama of Illinois.

"It is wrong that Senator Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year, enumerating the years, and never got asked one time--not once, 'Well, how could you say that when you said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war. And you took that speech you're now running on off your Web site in 2004. And there's no difference in your voting record and Hillary's ever since.'" Mr. Clinton said at a town-hall style meeting Monday afternoon at Dartmouth College. "Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."

http://www.latestpolitics.com/blog/2008/01/president-clinton-sees-post-iowa.html

[babylonsister]

1. I just heard that; the attack dawg has been let loose! nt

[cali]

7. yeah, but I bet that didn't go over well

there. The Clintons aren't ascendent. Obama is.

[babylonsister]

15. That's what's being discussed now; I imagine it didn't either.

It's odd to see Bill being so negative even though we know what his political agenda is.
There's lots more where this came from.

[K Gardner]

71. They played that clip over and over this a.m. I think that on top of

what Tweety said is what got me wigged out a little. OK. I'm going to just go back to bed. I feel better now. The Obama Troops have it covered ! :yourock:

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. And exactly right. I keep thinking of the Today show interview

with Clinton and David Gregory--he was hounding her about something that Bill Clinton said. He would not let her answer, kept interrupting. Obama has never had that. He and Edwards just get to say their piece with no questions, no confrontations, no hounding.

As I have said all along, the media is choosing our President, because we let them.

[ccpup]

17. after Obama wins NH

and then does better in NV than expected (I still see a Hillary win in that State), the media will suddenly go 'oh, wait a minute' and change Obama's storyline.

No longer will it serve them to have a candidate "cruising" to the Nomination, as Hillary appeared to be before the Primaries. They sell many more papers and get tons more viewers if Obama is seen as "stumbling", his campaign in "disarray" or "imploding", his Senior Advisers "desperate". And, like it or not, the American People ARE affected -- and their votes are changed -- by what the media writes or the talking heads parrot repeatedly.

Election year after Election year, the media trots out the same tactics: build someone up until they get that air of inevitability and then, like a pinata at an overexcited child's birthday party, start beating them with ink stained sticks, knocking them off the perch they put them on.

And, as that candidate falls, another candidate has a miraculous "comeback". Ergo, new storyline and new readers and viewers.

It may not be what Obama Supporters want to hear, but the same spotlight that blinded Hillary with it's constant vicious, unkind glare will turn toward Obama after tonight's win.

[Dawgs]

26. Right. Just like Kerry in 2004.

:crazy:

[rodeodance]

21. Obama starts his sentences many times with LOOK.....and reporters listen-show respect.

[Evergreen Emerald]

29. yeah. He got that from Biden. He mimicks other people.

[peacebird]

3. the big Dawg is getting cranky in his old age... but that puppy in the OP is just too darn CUTE!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

19. sweet thing, no?

Bill's tirade was shown this AM on MSNBC. it looked flat. Talk about grasping at straws. They CAN'T talk about her successes, she hasn't had any, so they are left with attacking their "enemy" - a fellow democrat who made the mistake of being a better, more popular candidate than his wife.

[formernaderite]

78. what made bills victory

a comeback is that he had very little name recognition. Everyone knows who hillary is....i don't know if that's true for obama or edwards.

[Cha]

97. Is it a bigger "Fairy Tale" than

bill's courting Monica in the Oval Office?

[Kucinich4America]

107. Actually, I was thinking the REAL "Fairy Tale" here was...

Any First Lady can become President.

When you wish upon a ........ huge pile of corporate money

[Cha]

112. Excellent Fairy Tale point!

And Obama and his supporters are putting the kibosh on their finely woven tale!

[jefferson_dem]

55. I can't take credit for that sweet little pup.

It's just an image I found online.

Here is a pic of my Bassett Leo. He was dressed up for Halloween. Note the stickers on the back window of our auto...

[peacebird]

108. Another seriously adorable pup!

[ccpup]

4. it's a great point

and one Obama's campaign will have to deal with at some point. Better early in the process than when he's a deer-in-the-headlights during a debate against a Repuglican in the General, right?

[spooky3]

16. Notice people are attacking BC rather than the point he is making

because he's right about this.

[ccpup]

20. and these same people who laugh at BC saying this

or mock Hillary for pointing out the media's constant negative focus on her will be the first one's squealing like stuck pigs when Obama's flattering stories stop and the media turns negative ... and they will, of course. Inevitability doesn't sell papers or get viewers. And it's boring to Talking Head about on the Sunday shows. So, yes, his Media honeymoon is coming to an end.

Then it'll be "the media's treating Obama horribly! it's so unfair! no one ever in history has been treated as bad by the media as he has! it's an outrage. an outrage, I tell you!"

Just wait and see. February is not going to be the best month for Obama.

[rodeodance]

22. Bill most likely is right.

[Cameron27]

51. Yes, of course they're attacking Bill,

because he's right, this primary has turned into an anointing not a vetting process, thanks to a biased media.

[LostinVA]

53. Yup

[krabigirl]

65. He's absolutely right. It is like a big fairy tale. It's creepy.

[Cha]

98. Right about what?..he's whining

about shit.

And clinton lied when he said he was against the War On Iraq..so his credibility is fucking zip.

[Seabiscuit]

105. Bingo. I'm no Big Dog fan, but Bill is absolutely correct about all this.

Obama is all over the field with his statements - to the point that if you listen to him long enough, you don't really know where he stands about anything.

Kudos to Bill Clinton for pointing out some of the many real-world contradictions in Obama's statements about where he stands. It's straight out of FantasyLand.

[AtomicKitten]

5. Clean up on aisle 5!

[Armstead]

6. Love that Lil Dawg picture

[Azathoth]

8. Man, the Clintons really feel entitled to power n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

18. No. They believe they deserve a level playing field.

[Horse with no Name]

44. As did all of the candidates. But without ANY Press, campaigns die.

I wish ALL of the candidates had the amount of camera time that Clinton AND Obama have received.

[Arugula Latte]

75. Good point. Considering he's been frozen out by the media, Edwards is doing well.

[Kucinich4America]

110. Level Fucking Playing Field??

Tell that to MY candidate. Or Dodd and Biden. Even Richardson and Edwards to some degree. And Gravel? Do I even need to go there?

The Clintons had the "levelest" playing field their corporate money could buy.

[ellacott]

9. Cute doggie

Some of those questions have been asked by Tim Russert on MTP.

[groovedaddy]

10. The issue of the war in Iraq is ringing rather loudly and rightly so

Big dog is right to call Obama on this, but both Obama's and HRC's credibility on Iraq is severly lacking. At least Edwards has staked out a clear timeline for getting out of Iraq. The fact that Obama or Clinton WILL NOT really bothers me.

[Cha]

101. bill clinton came out in support of

bush with the War ON Iraq and now has the stupidity to lie and say he wasn't for it. clinton is whining cause his wife isn't ahead..they have no scrupples with our Soldiers' lives.

[RoadRage]

11. Dear Mr. Clinton...

It's not Obama's stance on the war (only) that makes me like him and not your wife. Obama has a personality, and a vision that is completely different from your wifes.

Ohh.. and Obama's not married to you.. so that's another plus mark on his side as far as I'm concerned. Because, i'm sure if he would have been married to you in the 90's.. he would have kicked your ass to the curb the second he heard the name "Monica Lewinsky".. or any of those before her. Your WIFE did not.. she chose to stand by through all of the cheating.. so she's either weak, or worse - an opportunist. I don't care to vote for either.

[uberblonde]

40. 'Weak' or an 'Opportunist'???

Because she forgave her husband and they worked at their marriage? On what planet is that "weak"?

[groovedaddy]

42. He just needs to get out and play some golf with G.H.W.B.

It's the elite way a relaxing and hobknobbing.

[Mojorabbit]

45. That is a miserable thing to say

Maybe she loves him and decided to give him a second chance and they worked on their marriage. Their marriage is their own concern and staying with him neither necessarily means she is weak nor an opportunist.

[LostinVA]

54. This post needs to go NOW

[Mark Twain Girl]

63. That kind of slur on Clinton is unnecessary and is a real turn-off. nt

[Cameron27]

70. Very nice,

a sanctimonious AND sexist opinion all wrapped into one. Bravo.

[ieoeja]

111. Of all the problems I have with Hillary...

... her married life is completely unimportant to me. It was none of our fucking business in 1998. And is none of our fucking business today.

[ellisonz]

122. It without a doubt will come up if she some how pulls it off in the GE...

I can picture the Diane Sawyer interview already.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

12. Translation: Obama stole my hope schtick!

[Armstead]

13. But,but,but ...Bill Clinton was opposed to the Iraq War from the beginning....

at least that's what he says now.

Speaking of fairy tales.

[DrFunkenstein]

31. My Thoughts Exactly...And Hillary Was For All The Good Ideas, Against All The Bad

C'mon

[Cha]

102. That's right...bill's jealous

cause Obama's words are resonating and bill keeps getting busted for telling whoppers..not like the m$$$m's smearing Al Gore.

[BeyondGeography]

14. Fairy tales can come true, but it can't happen to you

if you're old at heart.

He made that speech at a college? Dumb.

[C_U_L8R]

23. Hopeless.

Sorry Dawg, but some fairy tales do come true. You should know.

[tularetom]

24. If he talked about repulsicans like that

I'd have a whole lot more respect for him.

[Critters2]

123. You mean the people Obama is going to reach out to? nt

[oasis]

25. Clinton is being charitable. "This whole thing is bullshit" is more accurate.(eom)

[sunonmars]

27. The 800 gorilla in the room

Finally someone said it.

Obama is not going to know what hit him when the press goes to town on him and he'll know exactly how Hilary feels.

Obama as the Democratic Nominee is akin to spinning a slot machine, random, the moneys shovelled in, the fancy lights take you in and after the spin, you realise you've been had and you got nothing out of it except an empty pocket. At this point I don't need an unknow quantity, theres a war on, a recession looming, economic strife and they want to put someone in the Whitehouse who's claim is Hope.

Someone get a grip on reality.

[geiger]

62. he seems to be saying he lives by principles that will guide him in making change

and getting things done. He wants you to have faith in him and hope in ourselves that we can grow and rise to do things that haven't been done before.

[paulk]

85. and that's a very nice, uplifting message

I'd feel a lot more comfortable getting that message in a church than in a Presidential campaign.

[Apollo11]

28. Obama dealt with this issue on Meet The Press, Nov. 11, 2007

MR. RUSSERT: You were not in the Senate in October of 2002. You did give a speech opposing the war. But Senator Clinton’s campaign will say since you’ve been a senator there’s been no difference in your record. And other critics will say that you’ve not been a leader against the war, and they point to this: In July of ‘04, Barack Obama, “I’m not privy to Senate intelligence reports. What would I have done? I don’t know,” in terms of how you would have voted on the war. And then this: “There’s not much of a difference between my position on Iraq and George Bush’s position at this stage.” That was July of ‘04. And this: “I think” there’s “some room for disagreement in that initial decision to vote for authorization of the war.” It doesn’t seem that you are firmly wedded against the war, and that you left some wiggle room that, if you had been in the Senate, you may have voted for it.

SEN. OBAMA: Now, Tim, that first quote was made with an interview with a guy named Tim Russert on MEET THE PRESS during the convention when we had a nominee for the presidency and a vice president, both of whom had voted for the war. And so it, it probably was the wrong time for me to be making a strong case against our party’s nominees’ decisions when it came to Iraq.

Look, I was opposed to this war in 2002, 2003, four, five, six and seven. What I was very clear about, even in 2002 in my original opposition, was once we were in, we were going to have to make some decisions to see how we could stabilize the situation and act responsibly. And that’s what I did through 2004, five and six, try to see can we create a workable government in Iraq? Can we make sure that we are minimizing the humanitarian costs in Iraq? Can we make sure that our troops are safe in Iraq? And that’s what I have done. Finally, in 2006, 2007, we started to see that, even after an election, George Bush continued to want to pursue a course that didn’t withdraw troops from Iraq but actually doubled down and initiated the surge. And at that stage, I said, very clearly, not only have we not seen improvements, but we’re actually worsening, potentially, a situation there. And since that time I’ve been absolutely clear in terms of the approach that I would take. I would end this war, and I would have our troops out within 16 months.

MR. RUSSERT: Some involved in the anti-movement have said that in 2004, 2005, 2006 Barack Obama voted to fund the war. Every time there was a proposal to have a fixed date withdrawal you said no, it would be a slap in the face to the American troops, it may create bloodshed and more division, that American credibility was at stake, that you were not a leader in trying to stop the war until you ran for president and got to Iowa and got to New Hampshire and had a sense of the anti-war, war fervor in the Democratic base.

SEN. OBAMA: No.

MR. RUSSERT: Where was the leadership?

SEN. OBAMA: I, I, I disagree with that. You know, throughout I was a constant critic. The first hearing that I had was with Condoleeza Rice in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. This was a few months after I had been sworn in as senator. And I told her at that point, we need to wind this war down. It is true that my preference would not be to end this war simply by cutting off funding. My preference would be for the president to recognize that we needed to change course, and that was what I continually pushed for. At the point where we realized the president was not willing to change course, I put forward a very clear timetable for when we should remove our troops. And, when that was vetoed, I then suggested that the only way to get the president to the table to negotiate how we’re going to move in a different direction in Iraq is by not giving him a blank check when it comes to funding.

But, look, throughout this process my views have been consistent. The question has been, given the situation on the ground, how can I be most constructive not in scoring political points, but making sure that we have the best possible outcome after what I considered to be a tragic strategic mistake in the region.

MR. RUSSERT: But you have changed in your support now of withdrawal. You have changed now in your support of cutting off funding.

SEN. OBAMA: But I haven’t changed in my opposition to the war. Look, you know, at the time when we were trying to convene a government in Iraq that would work, it was important, I think, for me and others who opposed the war to hope for the best possible outcome in Iraq. You know, I’ve never rooted against success in Iraq, I’ve just been skeptical that this was the right approach for us to take. I have also been very clear throughout about why this was such a strategic mistake. The president now is talking about the grave threat that Iran faces, and he’s absolutely right that Iran is a serious threat if they develop nuclear weapons, their support of Hezbollah and Hamas. The biggest beneficiary of our invasion of Iraq has been Iran. And it gives some sense of why we’ve got to have a president in the Oval Office who’s making decisions not based on ideology, but based on knowledge of the region, based on the players that are involved, based on what’s good for our long-term national security. And that’s something that I believe I can provide as president.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21738432/page/2/

[Tom Rinaldo]

32. Lol, you must have been typing this while I typed my post.

When the media really has a candidate in it's gun sights, the hounding is constant. I remember how often Wes Clark was forced to talk about whether he really was a Republican back in 2003/2004. It's not like they asked him once, accepted his answer, and then moved on.

[Tom Rinaldo]

30. They are fair questions

Not the emotional spin aspect, the reference to "a fairy tale" part was just politics. But the question about "why did you take your anti-war speech off your web site in 2004?" and "how come you said in 2004 that you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution?" are garden variety classic "Meet The Press" questions a Democrat would typically get hit with on that show - we can all visualize the graphics on our TV screens while Russert asks them. Or a direct comparison of Obama's and Clinton's voting record on Iraq since Obama took office - that would get thrown up on a "Meet The Press" screen usually also. It's not like Hillary Clinton deserves a pass from getting asked hard questions about how her position on Iraq has or has not evolved, she does. But she does get confronted with them. What is wrong with Bill Clinton or anyone else asking questions of Barack Obama about his actual record and his own actions and statements?

Although I am supporting Clinton now, I'm not wild over her. I'm not wild over any candidate this year. So I actually think there is a positive for our Party that Clinton hit some hard times on her road to the White House. I see an advantage in having her tested, hard, on her ability to weather campaign storms. I know that the media and the Republicans will comb over her entire public record to make her look foolish or worse comparing things she does or says now with what she did or said earlier, should she become our nominee. If Hillary holds up under that type of scrutiny, if she makes improvements and adjustments in response to set backs, I will feel better about her as our candidate.

Now, before Super Tuesday, is an excellent time for all of our candidates to be hit with the best shots any of their opponents have to throw at them .

[depakid]

33. For once I agree with Clinton

It IS a fairy tail- and not one in all likelyhood that will have a happy ending.

More likely, something from Aesop.

The frog & the scorpion comes to mind.

[sam sarrha]

37. i think he is a Manchurian Candate... stealing the election in the primaries.. he has no background

just charisma.. carl rove and gingrich love him.. something is terribly terribly wrong here

[depakid]

47. Perhaps, but more on point, there's no way of knowing how he would have voted

Durbin voted nay, and then supported Lamont after the primary- as Obama did.

Yet on other votes, like the so called "patriot" act, Obama went the other way.

As you say there's no real grounding or background to go on. Only "hope."

[sam sarrha]

52. but there's 'nothing' to base any hope on, edwards has some glitches, but has a lifetime of helping

the common man.. who else does??? that is why there is a info blackout on him in the media

[butterfly77]

49. Too bad...

the Dems are getting fooled again...

[rucky]

59. They like him because he's beating Hillary.

And they hate the Clintons. that's it. It's just sport for them.

In the General, they'll go back to hating the Dem.

[Sulawesi]

34. OK Bill, this is a fairy tale, unlike the "comeback kid"

[Apollo11]

48. Maybe "The comeback kid" stopped believing "in a place called Hope"?

:eyes:

[dailykoff]

35. yeah prince charming is kicking ass

and I won't say anything about a witch because that would hurt people's feelings.

[Carolina]

116. love it

:hi:

[book_worm]

36. It's getting to Bill too, I guess.

[Horse with no Name]

38. I seem to recall when the Press was riding their Hillary-High

that she was on EVERY.MAJOR.SUNDAY.NEWS.PROGRAM in ONE day.
I do not recall her being interrupted--no, I recall her getting a free pass.
At that point in time, she was being readied for coronation.
I don't know exactly what happened for her to fall out of grace with the media...because most likely it was something behind that scenes that we proles aren't privvy to.
With that being said, I think the press coverage of ALL of the candidates has been disgraceful.
From the start, it was pegged a Black man v. a woman...NONE of the other candidates has had as much airtime. Period.
The media selected our frontrunners and although that was purely obvious to even the least astute political hack, while it served their purposes, it was fine and dandy.
However, that wicked wheel turned and now it isn't so dandy.
Ask Kucinich, Biden, Richardson, Edwards, Gravel, or Dodd IF they would trade the opportunity that Clinton and Obama had to be the media darlings....ask if they would take the bad with good, because any press is good press.
Yes President Clinton, it is NOT fair, however, it has NOT been fair from the start. Now is hardly the time to start crying foul.

[Thrill]

39. He's not use to someone else in the party being the Rock Star

[Colobo]

41. Bill needs to chill and realize there a new star in da house!

Gobama!

[Carrieyazel]

43. I don't want Hillary to win, but President Clinton is absolutely right.

Here's the only guy who beat down the Repukes with ease in the last two and a half decades. He knows what the deal is.

[Apollo11]

46. Bill Clinton is absolutely a hypocrite.

When Clinton ran in 1992 he was the energetic young guy who didn't have any Washington experience but lots of enthusiasm and "I still believe in a place called Hope".

Bill was the candidate who tried to make his whole campaign a fairy tale about "The comeback kid".

[Carrieyazel]

50. Totally different. He was a Governor, and had done at the state level

what he needed to do at the national level. His message was change with an added kicker: I've done it.

He was the worst nightmare that the Repukes could have faced that year, and he picked the Repuke lock to win 30 states.

Obama's never done it.

[Apollo11]

68. Clinton "won" 30 states with a helping hand from Ross Perot

Let's not forget how Perot helped Clinton win in 1992 and again in 1996.

[Dr. Strange]

58. Thank you!

I think he's pissed because he feels like he's a victim of some sort of political copyright violation.

[HughLefty1]

56. OK

I think Bill Clinton brings up some good points. I want Barack to answer the tough questions NOW and not in October against the repukes. I've never been a huge Clinton supporter but it does seem Obama has gotten a free ride from the press to this point and we can't expect that if/when he's the Dem candidate in the GE.

[rucky]

57. Bill is Hillary's Oprah

Look out!

[loveangelc]

60. LOL. OMG that picture is soo cute.

Bill Clinton is really getting embarrassing. This just makes them sound jealous.

[bunnies]

61. Its NOT the press. Its Obama himself.

He inspires people. Period.

[krabigirl]

66. Yes, people who don't use logic and reason.

[DivorcingNeo]

80. I'm sorry

but that is exactly what I am talking about in my post on another thread.

That is very insulting and juvenile. So your point is that people who don't believe in the candidates you do or choose to back someone who fits their ideals of a good President...must be illogical and unreasonable.

Hmm what does that equate to? An elitist attitude that you are better and wiser than others.

Gimme a break!

[paulk]

64. he makes a fair point - the press hasn't questioned Obama

They've let him slide on some of the most basic elements of his campaign... as Bill correctly points out.

The response from the Obama camp will be to deride him, probably in a very personal way - since that has been the sort of response coming from them all along. Just shrug it off - say that the inconsistencies in Obama's record (what there is of it) aren't important - then go on to attack the messenger.

It's a strategy that's worked so far.

[BeyondGeography]

73. Oh bullshit

Has Her Majesty sat down with Russert yet? Obama has, twice in fact. None of these so-called unanswered questions haven't been answered yet. The campaign has been going on for close to a year. This is just spin designed to create doubt in states that haven't been paying close attention yet. The media will play along for horse race purposes, but this game has already been played and Obama has come out ahead.

Next thing we'll hear probably hear is, did you know Obama voted "present" over 130 times in the Illinois Senate?

[paulk]

79. case in point for the typical Obama supporter on this board.

explain the non vote on Kyle-Lieberman.

[Tom Rinaldo]

74. Yes that strategy has worked so far. I can't blame them for sticking with it

...as long as it keeps working. It sure as hell wouldn't work in the General Election though if Obama becomes our nominee. I hope they have a plan B strategy for that, and I really wish we got a chance to see that one in action first, since he would clearly need it, before we settle on a nominee.

[paulk]

81. your post upthread nails it -

we can't afford for any of our candidates to get a free ride in the primaries - because we know that the MSM will be turning their guns on our candidate for the GE. They need to be vetted now - and Obama hasn't been.

[Tom Rinaldo]

99. Not sufficiently

That's certainly not his responsibility. His job is to deliver his own message and he has done so effectively. But collectively it is societies responsibility to do so as part of the process of choosing leaders. While of course no election season goes by without all candidates being asked some hard questions along the way, the overall tone of coverage effects the basic impression of those who are paying only light attention. The Obama story, and it is a real one, has been his rise to prominence, what that implies for America, plus the power of his message and how impressive he can be. All fine and good and fair.

But until the last few weeks prior to any votes actually getting cast most voters don't pay close attention to the content of potential controversies, just to who is being treated as being controversial. By and large Hillary has, Oboma hasn't.

[thoughtcrime1984]

67. So the system that has benefitted him in the past

is now all of the sudden BS? Whatever, Bill. I wish I could put you on ignore the way you've been acting in this campaign.

[closeupready]

72. Yeah. What a crybaby.

n/t

[mountainvue]

69. He's right. n/t

[Skip Intro]

76. Well, he's right. The media will take aim at the one soon enough. To our detriment, if he's the nom.

[jefferson_dem]

77. Here's a VIDEO of Big Dawg's frustrated, whiny rant.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=4102345

[flpoljunkie]

89. Thanks for the video link, jefferson_dem! Sorry about the duplicate post.

[ellisonz]

125. Bill is desperate and lying through his teeth.

[redqueen]

82. Yuppers Bill, it's not fair, is it?

Too bad about that whole media concentration thing, huh?

[Horse with no Name]

83. Zing. Nice one redqueen. n/t

[killbotfactory]

90. lol

[cloudythescribbler]

84. strategic whining a Clinton (bill AND hill) specialty

After all, it is up to the candidates, is it not, in the debates to point out the flaws in their rivals ...

so the argument is vapid, but the point is it works.

my memories of the Clinton era (the last five full years of which I spent living in a homeless shelter) are a little less warm and fuzzy than some others' -- but I still give the admin credit for staying out of big wars (I opposed the kosovo crusade, but it was a pimple compared to Bush's militarism), for generally only limited giveaways to the rich, a strong economy, and some other stuff.

but then there were so many ways that from day one, he only betrayed the progressives AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, and was largely responsible for getting the country a Repug Congress.
Then there's NAFTA etc. which I would think that Obama AND Edwards would bring up EVERY speech, every debate.

Free trade without at least as firm protection for environmental and human rights (including labor rights) is really nothing but a sham. I'm for what Dean called the REAL Democratic Party, it's just that Obama seems to have more of the personal skills to lead the country in that way ....

I see PLENTY of attacks on Obama, here on DU, in the press (eg Krugman, columnists at Huffpo and TPM Cafe shilling for Hillary, and lots of other stuff. Obama is a natural and should be a strong candidate as well as president

[greguganus]

86. Has Carville let the Big Dog out? n/t

[fadedrose]

87. Big dawg has no legit complain

How about Edwards who came in SECOND? He's the invisible man now. I can't figure out why Hill is getting so much attention, bad or good, since she came in THIRD.

Makes no sense.

[elana i am]

88. hillary's really not helping herself by letting...

her lying, cheating, philandering, skeevy, lesser-half open his mouth.

[Little Star]

91. Why do we need Repugs, when we can destroy our own past? n/t

[redqueen]

93. Aw, aren't you special.

Debate isn't your strong suit? No, really? I'm glad you explained that!

[zulchzulu]

92. It's hilarious seeing the Big Liar falling off the rails

He thinks distorting Obama's record can stick. The Clintons are going to go very negative and show us just how classless they really are.

I have champagne ready for her concession speech. It's gonna taste good.

[mtnsnake]

94. Bill was spot on. I love it when he's telling it like it is. He was incredible

despite the media making it look otherwise, in their effort to keep the momentum in Obama's favor.

[Alamom]

117. I saw no whining or any change in the way BC spoke. He always speaks his heart and he does it with

conviction. I also agree with him completely.


Obama's supporters can not handle any criticism of their candidate at all and that is sad and scary.

What are you going to do if he wins the nomination and the Repukes are eating him alive everyday?

He is not annointed nor untouchable. He and his family will be dragged over the coals if he's the opponent.

[mtnsnake]

119. You said it, Alamom

It'll be a completely different tune when their candidate has to experience what both Clintons experienced at the hands of the right wing. They surely will be dragged over the coals and then they'll know what it's really like.

[sunonmars]

95. I'm getting tired of this

Why are people slamming Bill for pointing out the obvious of, hey hang on a minute, what is he actually planning for America, does policy not matter anymore or is this one big reality show on TV.

America did this with Bush, nobody saw the policy only the hey, i wanna have a beer with him. I dont think we can afford another one of those and what he proposed.

I want all 3 of these guys up on a stage explaining exactly one by one their policies in a regulated debate that if they veer off into spouting fancy crappy spin they will be brought back straight on policy pdq.

This change thing is wishy washy because the establishment aint ever gonna let anyone stop the gravy train in Washington and anyone who thinks otherwise, better wake up.

[Barb in Atl]

120. Me too...

I'm glad Bill Clinton is complaining about the part the MSM is playing in this campaign. I would prefer he expand it; why don't they cover Edwards? Kucinich? Gravel as something more than a joke? - I just hope Redqueen is there to pull the okey doke on him regarding consolidation. I love Bill and all, but nobody is perfect.

Regarding the fact that some folks don't think we have Obama's plans in detail - name one president that has provided said, detailed plans. EVER. And to compare any of the Democratic candidates to GW by claiming folks were more interested in having a beer with him as opposed to seeing his ideas...? First, GW didn't win either election so it wasn't about whether folks wanted to get drunk in his honor. And secondly, absolutely under NO circumstances can you have me believe that Obama or any other dem candidate is or can be as batshit crazy as our current squatter in the whitehouse.

My hope is that Obama is living in Mr. Rogers Neighborhood while the primaries are going on because he doesn't want to shred a fellow dem. The ginzu knives can come out in the general election. And if he doesn't get the nomination, he can support the nominee without looking kinda' weird having just done some rough ya mama jokes on his competition.

[Cha]

96. Is that why bill lied when

he said he was against the War On Iraq from the beginning? To try and even out hillary?

[FrenchieCat]

100. He looked very small.....

He should be telling us why we should vote for Hillary, instead of trying to smut up OBama. Hillary's record is what he should be talking about.

Maybe if Clinton would have kept his zipper closed, we wouldn't be dealing with George Bush today. Bush did run to bring back dignity to the WH....and although he didn't win, he made Gore have to choose between running next to a adulterer and going on his own. Gore should have never been in a position to have to choose.

[zulchzulu]

103. Bill Clinton is willing to lie in front of a bunch of students about Obama

Like you said also, if Bill hadn't embarrassed the Democratic Party and had Gore to have to choose a Holy Roller for VP, we'd be finishing up the second Gore term and at peace.

He is plainly willing to cheapen the Presidency again for personal selfishness.

[FrenchieCat]

104. And I have a real problem with this......

because we have already been made to pay a cost way too high for him to attempt to crash what we have been waiting for years and had hoped that Bill, himself, could be. He didn't do it. He gave us GOP congress, polarization, ignored Rwanda, and needs to sit his ass down, at this time.

[JackORoses]

106. I liked Bill better when he was blowing his Sax rather than blowing hot air and his credibilty

[Bucky]

109. He's doing his best to make the case for his wife. When Obama gets nominated, Big Dog will sign on.

I ain't worried. I know who this man is and he's a great politician.

[Carolina]

113. I love beagles

have an adopted 11 year old -- sweetest critter I've ever owned.

I used to love the Big Dog, too, and it's natural for him to defend HRC. Nonetheless, Hillary can tear up all she wants about what has happened to this country but afterwards she should look in the mirror and think about her votes, namely IWR and subsequent Iraq and Iran votes. She only changed her tune when public sentiment went against the war. That's why people don't like her and aren't voting for her. All the plans and programs she may envision don't mean squat without capital which she has helped squander in that illegal, unjustified quagmire of death, destruction and waste known as Iraq!

[Tom Joad]

114. the sad truth is, there is wayyyy too little difference between obama and hillary and the rest

of the candidates... on both sides.
of the supposedly major candidates... who supports single-payer health care?
who wants to impeach the criminal Bush administration?
who has said that bombing Iran is an option (mccain, hillary, obomba)
who stands against funding this criminal war in Iraq?

Kucinich stands alone.

[jackson_dem]

115. This is all over the news

This was a great way to get the truth out about Obama's record through the media's pro-Obama filters. Kudos to President Clinton!

[quiet.american]

118. He's allowed to vent... but you know -- why not get that worked up about "W". nt

[Hippo_Tron]

121. In 2004 he was covering Kerry's ass

I'm pretty sure he's clearly stated that.

[Vinca]

124. The entire Bill Clinton "fairy tale" moment reinforced the notion

that they feel entitled to have Hillary as the nominee. My warm and fuzzies have diminished greatly for Bill over the years - primarily over NAFTA. Now I pretty much can't stand him.