Hillary is screwed

[Egnever]

Bill used to be the guy in the room most in tune with the electorate in any setting. What happened?

They are about to launch a negative blitz on Obama in a campaign where the people have spoken out pretty loudly that they are looking for a change from the tired old washington politics of personal destruction.
Do they really believe this will work? In doing this I believe they will actually strengthen Obama and harm themselves. We have already seen this doesn't work this time around. They pulled out the middle name and the cocaine use already trying to bring down Obama and it completely backfired and increased their downward spiral.

I think they have lost their feel for the sentiment in the general public. Perhaps they have been separated from reality for too long I don't know.

They are now in an impossible situation if you ask me. If they go negative they face what I am almost certain will be a backlash from it.

What else can they do though?

The experience thing clearly is exactly what people are looking to get away from they are in the mood to throw all the bums out. So that avenue is lost to them already, the more they harp on it the more they hurt themselves.

They lose on the record comparison because of Hillary's IWR and k/l votes. It may not be fair to Clinton as Obama didn't actually vote on either one but he also doesn't have the damning record of having voted for them.

I just don't see how they can recover there just isn't an area that I can see where they can go make a difference big enough to make a difference in the time they have. Time is now stacked against them and the mood of the electorate just isn't going to roll along with the negative stuff that in the past has allowed people to pull off the big upsets.

Maybe I am wrong and they will come up with something that paints Obama bad enough to override the feeling out there that america is ready to come together once again. I personally don't see it though.

Obama is the most gifted speaker of all of them theres no denying it and he gives many many people hope that we can finally get past our differences and get on with fixing what is wrong with this country. Clinton's only avenue to success at this point is to stomp all over peoples optimism. That is a tough thing to do and come out ahead.

Obama has walked into the perfect storm at the perfect time the mood of the country is on his side and it is going to be nearly impossible to stop it without destroying yourself in the process.

[Birthmark]

1. And they all lived happily ever after

I believe that's the traditional ending.

[Little Star]

2. They need to knock down the pins first. Start with JRE. n/t

[Egnever]

4. I dont even see how they can do that at this point

Every move she makes to take anyone down at this point makes her look negative and highlights her fair or unfair sense of entitlement. She is in a really tough spot as far as I can see. It will take true inspiration to get her out of this mess at this point and they seem to be returning to the same old politics that everyone is sick of instead.

[patrice]

3. False dichotomies like this are part of the problem.

Hillary just needs to hang-in there long enough for the mania to break. I'm not her supporter, but I DO hope she does stay in there.

[goldcanyonaz]

5. You got that right!

[Egnever]

6. I do too

I dont want hillary as my next president but she is a damn sight better than anyone on the other side. I enjoy the process itself so I am fascinated this time watching it unfold the longer it drags out the happier I am.

I just dont see how she has a chance to stem the tide without destroying her own candidacy in the process.

[demnan]

7. You hit it exactly

The American public is in a "throw the bums out" mood. And they aren't the outsiders now, they're the bums.

You know I hope this translates throughout Congress and we actually get to throw some of the non-impeaching bums like Pelosi and Reid out too. This could be a very cleansing time for our country.

[Egnever]

32. Unfortunately I dont think Reid is up for re- election.

DEo we have any sitting dems being contested in primaries? I would love to get a bunch of em out of there.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

8. What's truly sad is, if they continue to knock him down, coupled

with the possibility of McCain winning. WE are screwed!

In the Republican debate Saturday, McCain was extraordinarily
articulate when asked why he was better than Obama. We had
better hope he doesn't win !

Dual attacks !

What a shame, not only do they lose their own personal ambition
of re-gaining the WH, but could make Dems lose the WH again.

[enough already]

12. Exactly

Even if she's "successful" in sliming Obama, McCain will crush her. And if Obama survives to get the nomination, he'll be severely weaknened by the assault. This needs to get sorted out fast.

[progressivebydesign]

24. Oh yes, Hillary should throw it in so Obama can win.. how quaint.

Hey.. everyone, LauraPackYourBags sayz you all can go home now. NO need to campaign anymore. Obama needs to have the nomination NOW so that the Dems will win in November. Thanks.. really.. you've saved the other States and the other candidates millions of dollars. :sarcasm:

[Laura PourMeADrink]

27. Wow - how rude. I didn't say she should give in - by no means!

I just don't want them, or any candidate we have, to supply
the other side with any more negative ideas than the
will already have. Stick to the issues.

[elixir]

9. I've listened often and I don't get the whole "gifted speaker" thing.

[enough already]

13. You're kidding, right?

Anyone who wasn't energized by his post-Iowa speech is either dead or a blind partisan.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

21. I agree. Before that speech I was one of the most bitter partisan

haters ever = spoiling every dinner conversation with right wing
inlaws we had.

He made me realize that it was time to get over it and move
forward. (Albeit, I would love to hear some Bush zingers more).

BUT - I do have to wonder about unity. I think he is just
talking Dems, many indys, and a handful of republicans. Because
with most of the issues there is no compromise position. Iraq --
you either want to stay or leave. Guess he's talking about the
majority of citizens. Screw the minority who want to stay.

[Renew Deal]

10. The election is about them, not america

They couldn't give 2 shits about people in this country as long as they stay in power.

[terisan]

11. After he got to Senate Obama voted for Iraq War. He also refused to sign letter to Bush

telling him he couldn't use Kyl/Lieberman to go to war. Clinton signed the letter. Dodd signed the letter. Obama refused to sign the letter.


I am seeing a candidate who is a brilliant speechmaker but who speaks with a forked tongue.

[Egnever]

14. Cute but it doesnt change reality

and reality is that people are tired of weashington politics. Sick of it in fact. They want new blood and all the parsing in the world is not going to make Hillary that new blood.

[progressivebydesign]

20. How can electing a Senator with lobbyist ties be outsider politics???

or is it that stupid "rock star" thing again?

[Egnever]

23. its a decent argument but one that only

the most politically aware people of the country are ever going to hear about and his ties to lobyists are minor. Hillary sure as hell cant make that case against him and the only guy left in the race who can is teetering on the ropes allready.

[terisan]

34. So you champion Obama's new pro-war votes?

[Egnever]

15. Let me add

Every time you try to point that out you inadvertently point out that hillary DID vote for the IWR and DID vote for kyle Lieberman. So you damn her at the same time you try to bring Obamna down. This is exactly why she is screwed. Every time she attacks she brings herself down with it and they just aren't getting that fact. Apparently neither are you.

[AtomicKitten]

17. Obama and Biden are working on legislation to neuter K-L.

legislation > a strongly-worded letter

[progressivebydesign]

18. Oh.. but he's a "ROCK STAR", and that's SO important in leading the country.

And he has really popular rallies! Cuz we ALL know that public figures that fill rallies make really good presidents. :sarcasm:

Funny, because when Hillary was harrassed by the idiots asking her to "iron their shirt", it was just an aside in the article that it was an "overflow crowd" at an auditorium. If it was Obama, the fact that it was an "overflow crowd" would have been the reason for the article. I tire of people using the fact that he draws crowds as some reason to vote for him. And I'm tired of the term " rock star", If I wanted a "rock star" to lead the country, I'd write in Jon Bon Jovi, he's hot!

[progressivebydesign]

16. Don'tcha love how Obama didn't fucking vote but people supposedly hate HRC for it?

I think Obama is a coward... he seemed to know he would be running so he's missed or voted present on so many things so he couldn't be pinned on it.

[goldcanyonaz]

19. They also gave a pass to Biden and Edwards when it came to Iraq, but HRC? She's a ***** around here

It's sickening, and I more than likely will vote in the GE but I will write in the candidate of my choice.

[progressivebydesign]

22. I honestly think there are more things at work than what's on the surface.

I think the Obama supporters here, some are paid. I think some are Rovian types who are paid to attack Hillary Clinton daily, I think that sexism is alive and well in the US, and I think that once again we're being railroaded by this whole "rock star" thing that brought us some of the worst fucking presidents in history (i.e. reagan).

[SIMPLYB1980]

25. And Bush.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

26. I definitely think you are right about infiltration here. But on

both or all sides. It too fishy how quick people
pounce if something is posted that is negative
to a candidate.

But, I am an Edwards supporter and I am jealous
when I see those crowds for Obama and the look
in their eyes. I want it for Edwards. This morning they
showed the crowd's faces at a rally w/ Bill - the kids
looked dour and sleepy. Then they showed
the faces of the Obama crowd - exact opposite. I
don't think this could be manufactured - do you?

[patrice]

38. Hey, I was against this war before it became fashionable, and I will take Hillary over Obama anyday.

1. Better the Machine you know than the one that you don't know and Obama's support is put over the line by so-called "independents" and crossover votes financed by the Machine which is covering its bets at both ends of the main issue spectrum: Hillary = pro-War and Obama = anti-this-war, but both of them are backed by The Money Machine.

2. Obama's gonna get his ass handed to him by McCain.

[AlertLurker]

28. Obama for President is a Republican Wet-Dream.

He's good at delivering a well-rehearsed JFK/MLK-style "we shall overcome" speech, and he seems to be energizing the youth vote, but he ALSO seems to stumble and falter in the debates, when he has to speak off the cuff.

He's been OK so far against fellow Democrats, but McCain/Guliani/Romney would chew him up and spit him out in 15 minutes of hard discourse...

[Anouka]

29. Hillary is more so.

That's always been the truth.

[patrice]

39. Ass - umptions, make an ass out of u and me.

And where exactly did you receive this great truth "that's always been . . ."?

[Egnever]

30. That may or may not be

either way it doesn't help Hillary recover.

[AlertLurker]

31. You are both probably right.

[Strelnikov_]

33. 1) "Bill used to be the guy in the room most in tune with the electorate"

. .

"I think they have lost their feel for the sentiment in the general public. Perhaps they have been separated from reality for too long"

I have heard Bill Clinton a few times in this cycle and have noted what you allude to, he has lost his ability to connect with the 'commoner'. And I think you nailed the reason, they have been 'political elite' for so long, they are now 'the man' so to speak.

[Strelnikov_]

35. ..

oops

[Strelnikov_]

36. 2) "Obama has walked into the perfect storm at the perfect time"

Which is why I laugh every time I see someone imply that he should have waited. A presidential race is not like the final four where there is a fresh opportunity every year.

His next opportunity would have been, most likely, in eight years, and by then there well could be another 'Obama' competing, with him thrown into the 'Hillary' role as the 'insider'. He has adequately mastered political campaigning based on performance to date. If he wins, experience can be hired.

IMHO, there is mot that much difference between the three 'leaders' regarding platform, especially considering that said platforms will bounce up against the reality of Washington.

We are 'hiring' for a leadership position, an executive, not a technocrat. IMHO the two characteristics we should be looking for, once platform is satisfied, are 1) ability to make reasoned decisions based on the advice of hired technocrats; and 2) the ability to inspire/lead.

Which comes to the other issue I find myself frequently laughing at, the hand-wringing over Obama's 'style over substance'. I seem to remember two recent elections where, afterwards, 'we' where crying that if our candidate could have been more 'personable' and less 'wonky' we could have won. How many times have we heard about finding our 'Reagan', our new 'JFK', our new 'FDR'. If only we could get some of that 'It's morning again in American' platitude to use in campaigns.

The Chimp failed not because of a lack of experience and political skills. The Chimp failed because of a lack of intelligence, judgment and a badly flawed and morally bankrupt platform.

[geiger]

37. "without destroying \yourself in the process"

what did you mean by that?