Can Barack Obama be as good a wartime candidate as John Kerry was?

[mtnsnake]

Poll question: Can Barack Obama be as good a wartime candidate as John Kerry was?

Let's face it. The next election is going to take place at a time when our country is still at war, just like last time, so this is going to be an important question, come next November.

Having said that, is there any way that Obama, with such limited experience in foreign affairs, can do as well as John Kerry when it comes to being perceived as a strong wartime candidate? Personally, I don't see how, but I'll let you decide here in this poll.

If you think he can, please explain why.

[redqueen]

1. Is that damning with faint praise?

I guess I should ask if you really considered Kerry to be a good wartime candidate. He took a lot of flack for not fighting back hard enough, from what I remember...

[Occam Bandage]

2. It's getting better all the time (can't get much worse)

[wuushew]

3. Who are we at war with and why?

Yankee can come home you know

:shrug:

[aein]

4. Maybe you didn't notice, but Kerry loss in 2004 by a wide margin

so why should we emulate him?

[The Night Owl]

6. 3% is what you call a wide margin?

Silly.

[aein]

45. Yeah, he loss after 4 terrible years of Bush, and after Gore won the popular vote...we should've...

...creamed Bush. Losing by 3% is a wide margin.

[karynnj]

46. This ignores the reality in the country

To half (or more) of the country in 2004, the Bush years were terrible, but the terrorists were blamed, not GWB. It was GWB who was standing against the terrorist and was keeping us safe. They rallied around the leader they had.

For the last several years, I hesitated asking an older woman, who I have always had incredible respect for - both as brilliant and as the most moral, honest person I know why she not only voted for Bush, but why she clearly detested Kerry. I would have thought her reaction to him as a man of great integrity and character would be like mine. I also knew that as she had run a small business, she benefited from legislation he and Snowe wrote. I asked her last month.

Her answer was that she and many of her peers - all teens and young adults during WWII - didn't like things he said. What things? The very things I quote daily - the litany of what he promised to do and didn't before going to war - she bought that Bush used his best judgment, and the criticism of the way Bush was fighting the war. She said that in WWII people didn't criticize the running of the war while we were still at war.

What this really amounts to is saying that a Democrat could not even address the biggest issue. Kerry"s manners allowed him to be a stronger critic than many - but for people like this relative, he was too strong in his criticism. It also didn't matter that he was accurate in every criticism he made or that the Bush team was busy with character assignation. This makes me think that between election irregularities, a biased media and a party not 100% behind him, that Kerry personally did a phenomenal job.

Look at the Clinton meltdown - both HRC and BC - in the last few months - Kerry took far more in the general election and maintained his dignity, temper and stayed on topic.

Obama will have the advantage, if he's the candidate, in not facing an incumbent President.

[aein]

48. I concede that you're right, and that I...

I was too zealous in my defense of Obama, that I slammed a good man like John Kerry.

[karynnj]

49. I'm impressed by you saying this

I also think that this op was designed to push people to defend one by attacking the other. There is an implicit slam on Obama in the question. Senator Kerry is not running and was the man who gave Senator Obama the opportunity that he used exceedingly well to propel himself to national recognition. Kerry has not endorse anyone or said anything negative - he has made strong arguments on many key issues that all the Democrats are much better than the Republicans

[redqueen]

16. Wide margin?

:rofl:

[Mass]

5. Given all the bad things you have written on Kerry, this is as disingenuous as it comes.

[mtnsnake]

7. I've almost always praised Kerry the person. I've only criticized some of his campaign policies

That's a fact, so enough with your nonsense.

[Mass]

8. Anyway, thank you to give the DUers another opportunity to bash Kerry.

[mtnsnake]

14. What?

Not the case, but thanks for putting words into my mouth. Sorry if you don't believe anyone should raise concerns about our choice of candidates this year.

[GalleryGod]

40. John has been a friend for many years.

We met at a Vietnam Veteran Against the War Rally and have corresponded since then. Christmas & Birthday cards and such. Having said that, he frustrated me when he didn't torpedo those ChickenHawk Swift Boaters.

[mtnsnake]

41. That is very cool

That must be amazing to have an ongoing correspondence like that. I don't think many other DU'ers can say that, if any.

[ProSense]

42. Cool! Were you one of the ones out there defending him? n/t

[karynnj]

50. He gave the media all they needed to know that the SBVT were liars

How can you ignore that they had over 100 pages of naval records, a book by an academic historian over which Kerry had no editorial control, Nixon tapes saying that he was a clean cut war hero and the support of every guy on his boat when he got each medal? Contrast this to Clinton's war machine - on the draft, he first said he did not remember if he was ever under the threat of being drafted, then he said he got a high lottery number .... until the entire story came out that he promised to join ROTC in AR after Oxford to avoid the draft, only to renig on the promise.

In the first case, the media of 10 years before would have vilified the SBVT and either Bush would have condemned them or he would have been hurt by it. Instead the media played it as he said, they said - how many lies should Kerry have had to disprove. It's really not clear that advertising against it would have helped. Parts of the media engaged in character assignation.

Really cool that you corresponded with him.

[karynnj]

47. After 2008, Kerry's campaign may be seen in a better light

even if Obama gets the nominationa and wins.

[cali]

9. Much better

and it's different times.

[mtnsnake]

10. Much better as a wartime candidate? How so?

[Mass]

11. It is different times, you're right . I beg to differ on much better.

[cali]

24. I like and admire Kerry enormously but I thought from the get go

that he was stressing his military service too much.

[Skidmore]

12. I'm looking forward to Obama being a peacetime President.

Kerry wasn't a good candidate. period.

[mtnsnake]

20. Trouble is, he's not going to be a peacetime candidate

so he's got a few hurdles to get over in the meantime, this perception being one of them.

[Skidmore]

25. We'll see. I believe he is speaking to a nation weary of war, division,

and being ostracized by the world community. I think people are looking beyond the war when they respond to his message, and that includes Republicans as well.

[robbedvoter]

13. Kerry: If I knew then, what I know now, I'd have still voted for IWR" (Edwards inspired)

I should hope Obama would be better than that.

[maximusveritas]

15. I don't want a "wartime candidate"

I'm tired of giving in to the Republicans' politics of fear.

[Egnever]

17. I disagree with the premise

Kerry was a horrible wartime candidate. "I was for it before I was against it!" Worst campaign line in history.

People thought he was going to be a good wartime candidate. Unfortunately it was completely unfounded as we arguably lost an election we should have won in a landslide.

[Desertrose]

18. Rather have a peacetime candidate myself......

Just sayin'

[killbotfactory]

19. People are sick of this stupid fucking war

He's not going to lose by being the only viable candidate who saw the war for what it was, and warned against it, in a political atmosphere that punished those who didn't fall in line behind the president.

[Political Heretic]

21. I disagree with the premise that John Kerry was a good wartime candidate.

[Mass]

22. I just hope Obama will be able to do what a President Kerry would have done.

Diplomacy and understanding.

For the rest, if Hillary wants to play: war on terra, she will look silly.

[Kucinich4America]

23. Considering there's no war, who needs a war time candidate?

Iraq and Afghanistan are occupations, not wars. The "war on terra" is a complete fabrication, just like the "war on drugs".

How about a "war on dumbassed fascist war mentality"? I could support that one.

[cmaff05]

26. ...

Kerry lost in Ohio by the slimmest of margins. I don't get this critism of him, he was a terrific candidate for us. If he had got a better turnout in Ohio, he would have won the presidency He was a terrific war-time candidate, and no, Obama can't match up with him in that regard. Will that be the death knell of him if he is nominated? No, probably not, but it's the truth.

[rucky]

27. This time, it's not as much about being in the war as getting out of it.

eom

[karynnj]

52. Which was of course what Kerry/Feingold was all about

not to mention that was also what Kerry spoke of in 2004 - what he proposed was what the ISG proposed 2 and a half years later. In fact, much of what Obama says now is consistent with what Kerry said.

[jackson_dem]

28. Hell no

[rug]

29. Only a phony war needs a phony wartime president. Someone to kick republican' ass is what's needed.

[paulk]

30. it depends on who the Republican nominee is.

McCain would present a real problem...

[mtnsnake]

34. Yes, McCain is my biggest worry by far, too. If it's him against Obama, we're fucked

4 more years of Republican rule is not a pleasant thought. I can't believe more people aren't worried about this, but I guess they're all too busy rejoicing in what they perceive to be Hillary's defeat.

[GalleryGod]

39. Obama will run against him in an Adidas Track Suit (LOL)

[burythehatchet]

31. What war?

[Zynx]

32. Well, it would be hard to be worse.

[ginnyinWI]

33. In today's climate, yes.

It's different now than in 2004. Iraq is off the front headlines. It has been settled in people's minds as a failure, and we know that any Dem will be pulling us back and/or out.

[paulk]

43. it really depends more on what happens between now and

November.

Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan... just for starters... any of these places could become trouble spots during the Presidential campaign.

Obama's lack of foreign policy experience won't play well against a Republican fear campaign (and that is the campaign they'll run, backed completely by the MSM, Osama tapes, terror alerts, etc.), unless Obama has a VP with serious foreign policy cred.

[ermoore]

35. How could he do worse? n/t

[Alexander]

36. Yes. Obama voted against IWR and now everyone wants out of Iraq.

[whometense]

37. Obama didn't vote on IWR at all.

He wasn't in the Senate yet.

[GalleryGod]

38. Probably a better candidate from my perspective.

*









* It's quite WEIRD when your life as a 22 year old "L.T." shows up on a movie screen!

[ProSense]

44. Bush and Cheney destroyed Iraq. The good thing is neither of them is running. It's

time to withdraw the troops. The Republicans will not do it. It'll be up to a Democratic president. If it's Obama, he'll be fine.

[matcom]

51. DU wants a "Good War-Time Candidate"?

:rofl:

[mtnsnake]

54. I suppose you think we're gonna be spending our time in Iraq this year playing hopscotch

War isn't funny, but laugh all you want, matcom, if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheUniverse]

53. He will do better than Kerry, he will win.

[jlake]

55. No, but he not up against an incumbent "war president"

[ShortnFiery]

57. Newsflash! We are NOT at war - we occupy two countries and need to ...

make like sheepherders and "get the flock" out of the Middle East Arena. :evilgrin:

Or am I missing something and hordes of Americans wish to immigrate to Iraq or Afghanistan? :crazy:

[NoPasaran]

58. Is this a trick question?

I busted my ass for Kerry, but man did he suck.

[mtnsnake]

59. lol, no!

It's a quiz :evilgrin:

[wisteria]

60. Absolutely not. Sen. kerry has war time service experience that gives him a unique perspective

on war issues.