Pregnant Woman Joins Steinem/Clinton Pile-On!

[babylonsister]

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/01/08/pregnant-woman-joins-steinem-clinton-pile-on.aspx

Pregnant Woman Joins Steinem/Clinton Pile-On!

I'm probably just the type of woman--almost 9 months pregnant, on leave from my job as TNR's managing editor, and happily bouncing away on my birthing ball as I watch Hillary Clinton tank--that gives Gloria Steinem a headache. Steinem is right--I don't feel any compulsion to support Clinton. But this has nothing to do with her being a woman or me being a woman (or at this point, a woman and a half).

The reason that I'm not jumping on the Clinton bandwagon has to do with the fact that I've long found her inauthentic--an impression that Dahlia Lithwick suggests many voters share. This impression has only been heightened by Clinton's post-Iowa rash of protean transformations from angry debater to tear-filled diner patron. What's next? Will she be taken away by ambulance after locking Chelsea in a hotel room and refusing to come out?

In all seriousness, I don't have a problem with Clinton being a woman. But sometimes I get the feeling that she does. And, frankly, that lack of comfort in her own skin, and with her own identity, turns me off. Clinton--and Steinem, for that matter--represents a generation that fought the culture wars but now can't let go of those old axes and paradigms. This is not to say that the issues Steinem raises aren't real: Heck, as a woman in journalism I know that sexism (not to mention racism, classism, and many other -isms) exists. And, sure, there are folks who won't vote for Clinton because she's a woman just as there are folks who won't vote for Obama because he's black. But I resent Steinem's implication that I--and many other young women--are unable to look beyond gender and evaluate a candidate based on other merits. This is a failure of Steinem's imagination just as Hillary's inability to translate her life experiences and policies into a fresh vision is a failure of her own.

[ShortnFiery]

1. Well put, from this peri-menopausal woman

:blush: I know, more information than you need. ;)

IMO, HRC tries too hard to exude more testosterone than the men. When someone is inauthentic, it's difficult to impossible to want to follow their lead. :shrug:

BTW the following excerpt from your narrative was, IMO, outstanding :thumbsup: : "In all seriousness, I don't have a problem with Clinton being a woman. But sometimes I get the feeling that she does."

[terisan]

7. Wow you really get into the gonads of these uppity women. Try reading Phyllis

Schlafly. You will love her.

[havocmom]

9. Wow, attack the poster but not the arguement?

Try reading Rush Limbaugh. You will love him.

[terisan]

15. No rational argument there. It is all impression, feelings, and opinion based on same.

Give me a rational argument and I will argue the point.

[ShortnFiery]

18. Yes, there is a rational argument here plus most of us are entitled to our "opinions/impressions."

[terisan]

74. I was spedifically asked to attack the argument but I cannot since there was none presented.

that was not feelings or opinions based on feelings. No one can argue with somone else's feelings.

[ShortnFiery]

16. Nice. No, I have no respect for those who COVERTLY use their femininity as a blunt forced object.

Intelligence, genuineness and an expression of good listening skills tend to top my list of excellent managers/CEOs/political leaders irregardless of GENDER. :shrug:

It would be beautiful to have a true political leader who happens to be a woman running for President. However, that woman leader model is not, IMO, HRC. Her person is NOT what I wish my young daughter to consider as "a role model." :(

[terisan]

37. Huh????

[Cha]

28. There's lots of ways to

say it but it boils down to ..hillary is a big fucking phoney.

[Yael]

2. This is beautiful

Thanks!!

[terisan]

3. "comfortable in his own skin" was a major repub talking point re GW Bush

He was supposed to be the great contrast to Gore who was always "reinventing" himself.

I thought Change in a person was supposed to be good? or is it just okay so long as they don't make real change.

Instead of telling us about your being resentful of Steinem, write her a letter.

I suspect Gloria Steinem will take pride in your being able to fashion a career in journalism. Possibly you even are able to get a mortgage in your own name, obtain credit. You can thank her and the women of the second wave of feminism.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

84. Gloria Steinem and feminism didn't do that for me.

Spanish Law did that for me. Women have been able to own property and transfer it in their own names in Texas since 1836, the year we became a republic. And possibly before that, under Spanish law. Spanish law is far more liberal and equal with women than the English common law, which is the basis of most of the laws in the United States, and also far more equal than the French common law, or Code Napoleon, which is the basis of the laws of Louisiana.

So don't give feminism credit for my right to own property in my own name. It goes back a lot further than that. When I took Marital Property in law school, we had GOOD case law that went back to 1836.

I agree Hillary is having problems because of sexism, but she is not my candidate, because she is not progressive enough. She is corporate. Just because she's female does NOT make her a progressive.

[golddigger]

4. DU member joins GOP/Freeper Clinton pile-on!

More at 11:00!!!

[babylonsister]

5. If you're referring to me, you're full of shit. I agree with the pregnant woman:

"I don't have a problem with Clinton being a woman. But sometimes I get the feeling that she does. And, frankly, that lack of comfort in her own skin, and with her own identity, turns me off."

No, I don't worship Clinton-never have, never will.

[MollieBradford]

10. the only thing worse than a male Misogynist

is a female one. You and the blogger are a real pair. It is pathetic to watch you attack Clinton with such classic male sexist rhetoric.
It reminds me of EE saying she felt sorry for Clinton because she had to "Act like a man" to get where she was. That made my skin crawl too.

[babylonsister]

14. If you're saying because I'm a woman I'm a mysogynist if I don't vote

for her, you are the delusional one. I don't like her or trust her, but thank you for your concern.
That's more than enough for me to not want to vote for her.

[MollieBradford]

23. no that is not why I am saying it

I am saying it because of your classic sexist anti woman rhetoric. Any woman who got to big for her britches was "uncomfortable in her own skin "didn't know who she was". I am surprised you didn't add that she just needs to get laid.
I don't think Clinton has any problem with who she is. I think you are projecting.
But keep coming with the straw-woman arguments. It is very clear that you are being inflammatory and trying to pick a fight. Otherwise there is really no good reason for this thread at all. I am sorry I am not going to have a pissing match with you by buying in to your intentionally deflective statements.

[indimuse]

29. can I buy you a beer..wine.? Touche!

hahah..!and so true:yourock::yourock::yourock:

[babylonsister]

33. You're right: "I" have a problem with her. I don't like her. Got it?

She's proven she'll say whatever it takes to get ahead and thinks we're idiotic enough to believe it. She has a wicked temper I've seen twists of during debates that won't serve her well.
Enjoy your support of her and I'll enjoy my lack of.

[havocmom]

54. I'm with ya. Don't like her. Would feel the same if she were a he

Am SO tired of anyone who doesn't think HRC is the greatest being attacked for hating women. PLUS, I'd be willing to match my work for women against most of those attacking HRC critics around here.

Insisting people who are critical are also sexist is SEXIST in and of its self.

I wasn't crazy about HRC but respected what she had done in life, UNTIL she pulled out her carpet bag and headed for New York just to run for Senate. THAT spoke volumes about political opportunism. I don't like that in males and I would be a hypocrite to not hold women to the same standard.

[babylonsister]

66. Thanks, havocmom. Phew! Tough crowd! nt

[femrap]

24. Hi there, MollieBradford and welcome

to DU where you find lots of misogynists...most all are male, but I guess there are a few women as well.

Check out the Feminists Group or the Women's Rights Forum. And remember, when someone starts to bug you, you can put them on Ignore....an invaluable tool here at DU!

[terisan]

76. AArgh I did not know she said that. Dreadful

[terisan]

11. "comfortable in his own skin " it's the Repub phrase book about GW Bush.

Did you think Gore was wooden and always changing--"reinventing" himself? That was a Repub talking point too.

She seems like Hillary Clinton to me. I always check my perceptions for bias.

[ShortnFiery]

22. Keep repeating that accusation but it hits a nerve? HRC's not seen as genuine by many. eom.

[terisan]

38. Huh????

[Missy M]

6. Disgusting and insulting......

the reason this woman can have a pregnancy leave from her job is because of women like Steinem and Clinton. At one time when you became pregnant you had to quit the job and that was that. Many young married women were not considered for jobs because they might get pregnant. When they did get jobs the pay was pathetic. That "young woman" as she calls herself should be ashamed of what she wrote.

[babylonsister]

8. So now you want to remove freedom of speech?

I imagine Steinem wouldn't agree with you. :eyes:

[Missy M]

17. Of course not.....

are you trying to remove mine. What I had to say has nothing to do with freedom of speech. If something like that was said of the candidate you support you would be ranting.

[babylonsister]

27. Then don't be so disgusted and insulted by what that woman had to

say, using her freedom of speech to do so. Or do, if it makes you feel better. I don't really care.

[terisan]

20. To be ignorant of feminist history is sad. To know the history & not share would be wicked

[Darth_Kitten]

64. Maybe the comfortable, smug little gal needs to be married a tad longer..

and then may learn to realize that waiting for that all important male pat on the head is hard and unfulfilling work.

I think once the twit has the kid and does all the childcare work she'll soon realize that being a doormat ain't all it's cracked up to be!

[terisan]

71. Then a feminist fighting for her rights may look like manna from heaven

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

12. Don't forget a lot of people won't vote for Clinton

Because she's a democrat!

[indimuse]

34. AND in CULTURE ...there are WOMAN!!!

Purple Woman...Orange woman...Black Woman ....white ...yellow ...brown...WOMAN have had more suffering as whole than.......

[LucyParsons]

13. I'm a 28 year old woman, and I totally agree

I have never been a supporter of Hillary because she's a pro-war, pro-corporate DLCer. Period.

[terisan]

30. Do you like Obama? He is corporate (bigtime) & has voted to fund war since en Senate.

Edwards is the least corporate of the 3 and opposes continued funding.

[LucyParsons]

55. Funny

Because I'm 28 you assume I support Obama?

Check out my new sig line. I think every one should have one till at least March. :)

[terisan]

77. No assumption. it was a question.

[fightindonkey]

47. So Is Obama. What's Your Point?

[LucyParsons]

56. see above post

I'm for Dennis :)

I also voted Nader in 2000 and don't regret it. At all.

[Skidmore]

19. I'm a 54 year old woman who has thrown axes away and

taken up collecting telescopes. I agree with you entirely.

How's that birthing ball thing going?

[Cha]

21. I can't believe Gloria

Steinem is resorting to disingenous scoldings to support hillary. Does she think that's going to bring anyone on her fearmongering wagon?

The money quote.."This is a failure of Steinem's imagination just as Hillary's inability to translate her life experiences and policies into a fresh vision is a failure of her own."

Awesome analysis!~

[ShortnFiery]

25. Yes, it's like my continued disbelief that Dennis "Blue Velvet" Hopper whores for AmeriPrize.

Who' da thunk it?!? :crazy:

[Cha]

31. You'll have to

get over that! :P Nothing like an anti-hillary quote that's dissing gloria steinem to bring out the red herrings. :)

[ShortnFiery]

44. True, the only continuity is that they both (Steinem/Hopper) have forgotten their roots.

:shrug:

[Cha]

46. Totally veered off..

I was kidding.:)

And one wonders..why? But, It's like John Edwards only in reverse.

[ShortnFiery]

49. I understand. No worries, not ashamed to be humbled on occasion.

:hi:

[Cha]

67. But, you weren't

humbled you were cool and I was agreeing with you! That's my take:hi:

[ShortnFiery]

73. Oh thanks, you're very gracious :-)

I hope you have a good evening. :hi:

[terisan]

32. Ah ye generation of vipers. Tearing down Steinem even though she said she would

support the Democratic candidate.

[Cha]

36. Hey, you don't know

what generation I am.

[terisan]

41. It's a biblical quote......! What ever generation you are is not the point.

[Cha]

42. Sorry, I'm not up on

my biblical quotes.

[terisan]

69. I've been trying to read through the Gospels; my recollection is it is from Matthew.

I was being a bit lighthearted though in using it.

[sandnsea]

26. I'm 50, my axes are sharp, but I aim them correctly

And nobody has aimed any sexist axes at Hillary this election. The writer is correct, the failure is Hillary's to imagine a fresh vision for women and the country.

[terisan]

35. I just don't think I can take your word for that , given what i have been reading.

"Nobody" ? Perhaps you haven't been able to read everything. Is it possible that some statement may have slipped by you?

[sandnsea]

39. Nobody of any import n/t

[terisan]

45. Ah every person is a child of god, every person is of import. Here is a prayer for you

It helps many people see the love in others

Prayers for Peace

The Prayer of Saint Francis

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred ... let me sow love
Where there is injury ... pardon
Where there is doubt ... faith
Where there is despair ... hope
Where there is darkness ... light
Where there is sadness ... joy
Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek
To be consoled ... as to console
To be understood ... as to understand,
To be loved ... as to love
For it is in giving ... that we receive,
It is in pardoning ... that we are pardoned,
It is in dying ... that we are born to eternal life

[sandnsea]

48. ah, taking condescension lessons from Hillary??

Nobody of any import on the political national stage. Which I'm sure you know because I do happen to give people the respect of having a brain. Which might be my mistake.

[terisan]

63. No, sharing something I have found helpful when I find myself disliking someone.

A state I have often found myself in throughout my life.

[sandnsea]

72. Who said I didn't like someone??

I said nobody of any import had made any sexist attacks against Hillary. Condescension, putting words in my mouth, passing judgment, my my. I guess I can see why you've got that prayer.

[terisan]

79. I think everyone is important. nt

[KennedyGuy]

40. probabaly just hormones..

(its Ok to dismiss women this way now)

[Pastiche423]

43. After reading thread after thread

decrying anyone that says anything negative about Clinton, I can't understand why another woman can't simply dislike Clinton, her policies and voting record w/o being called sexist.

I am an idependent 53 year old woman that does not like Clinton. Does that make me sexist?

If Barbara Boxer were to run for president, I would knock myself out doing anything and everything to get her elected. She's strong, works diligently and is a liberal. The same goes for a number of women: Barabara Lee, Sheila Jackson Lee, Maxine Waters, Cynthia McKinney and others.

What exactly makes anyone a sexist that does not like Clinton?

[Cha]

51. Or Jan

Schakowsky!

[Pastiche423]

59. Another good one!

Thanks, Zidzi.

[sandnsea]

52. She hasn't been the frontrunner the last year either

DeeDee Myers had the gaul to say that a bit ago. Can you believe it? I thought she was basically an honest person, but she'll even get up there and shill for hil. Unreal. I have a different list of women than you do, but there are still plenty of women I'd work my heart out for.

[Pastiche423]

58. The names I listed were just from the top of my head

There are many more if I took the time to think a little longer.

My point was though, what makes a woman a sexist? Must she like all women? Hell, I don't like all the women I know in rl.

Know what I mean?

[terisan]

57. I think it may be the "ad hominem" statementsof dislike rather than specific votes or policies.

.....the imputing of wicked motives without facts to back them or the claims to know what someone is thinking or why someone is doing something without evidence to back it up. Sometimes it is just making fun of appearance or dress, or questioningor deriding a person's womanliness or manliness (I think this is always a sign of prejudice)

The question for me is why do people hate other people ---or why are people not able to "love one another" (from the Gospels) even though they claim to love humanity.

[Pastiche423]

61. If you are going to insert religion into this topic

then, buh bye!

[babylonsister]

65. Thank you!

:toast:

[Pastiche423]

70. You're welcome!

But I still haven't received an answer to my question. In all of my 53 years, I've never been called sexist. Yet because I do not like Clinton, I suddenly am sexist? :crazy:

[babylonsister]

75. Same here. Blew my mind! nt

[Elspeth]

50. "I've long found her inauthentic"--and the rest ARE?

Please, this is just women being harder on each other than they are on men. They all seem pretty insincere to me.

[femrap]

53. I wonder how many women will

run for Prez in the future after seeing what Senator Clinton has gone through?

I found Gloria's article insightful and thought provoking...but the younger generation seems to know everything and need no further wisdom from someone who worked her entire life for womens' rights.

I guess my grandmother was right....it does skip generations.

[spooky3]

60. the blogger's arguments are indeed sexist and idiotic but

let's not generalize to anyone else. It's unfair to characterize an entire "younger generation" just because some of its members are problematic and even if some DUers agree with poor arguments.

[femrap]

85. Of course, not ALL are idiotic....

just like back in the '60's and '70's, not all were politically active or hippies....but there are generational trends. And of course generations are a product of their times and events.

The Corporate Elite/Corporate Preachers are getting pretty good at manipulating us little rats by starving public education, insisting happiness is found by consuming and electronics, and believing in God's literal word will allow you not to think or worry....all questions have answers.

I was just thinking that the blogger said she was an editor...wonder if many women were editors 50 years ago. Forty years ago, women were not allowed to work if they became pregnant...automatically fired. So maybe she just needs to be enlightened of herstory.

[terisan]

62. I think too much of our recent histoy has been hidden + women are less apt to brag about

revolutionary success and what it takes. (No offense to men, they just often seem better at stating their accomplishments).

I have recently been watching some clips from a new documentary about the second wave of feminism- I was there for it in the 70s but I did not know the extent of what was accomplished by unsung heroes.

[femrap]

82. So often, I feel a deja vu....

it's as if I am back in the '60's and '70's and we are faced AGAIN with the same sexist crap. Here I think a problem has been named, people have been enlightened, and the problem was solved with lots of hard work and creative political maneuvers. Now, years later the same crap has returned with the help of Corporate Media and Corporate Religion portraying images of women that have absolutely nothing to do with REALITY.

According to our culture, whatever a woman does....it is wrong. I think Sen. Clinton's campaign is an excellent example. She is ALWAYS wrong. Of all the evils that HRC has been accused of, there is one thing I know if she becomes President....She will be very good for women and children.

And I see some of the young women of today thinking the only way they can achieve power is through sex. I walk thru the Girls Dept. of a store and the clothes are for 'little street walkers.' WTF has happened? And when did all of these strip joints open? We had shut down all of the Playboy Clubs. Sometimes I look at the world and think we are allowed only extremes of 'Sexee' or the burqa.

Looking back, this backlash all started with Ronnie Reagan....and it has been CONSCIOUSLY planned to put women BACK in their place.

P.S. Males are encouraged/taught to boast of their accomplishments...women are to be modest, polite, never shine their light, smile, and when playing a game, always lose so to not hurt the male's fragile ego. Gotta fit into those tight gender roles.

I talk too much. lol.

[Catherine Vincent]

68. What crap!

She needs to have that kid and breastfeed it.

[scarletwoman]

78. Love your post -- and yes, I know you're quoting someone else, something that seems to have

missed a number of respondent's notice on this thread.

I'm 58 years old, I've lived through the history of the late 20th century feminist movement. So, no one better accuse me of NOT knowing what women have fought for!

I didn't fight those fights for Maggie Thatcher or Condie Rice, I fought those fights for the betterment of humanity as a whole. I feel no obligation whatsoever to support a woman whose politics I find abhorrent just because she's a woman.

sw

[terisan]

80. So you agree with the writer about Gloria Steinem?

[scarletwoman]

81. I like Gloria Steinem just fine, that doesn't mean I have to agree with her on every single point.

I'm not part of the limosine liberal class, which is where I see Steinem.

sw

[Barack_America]

83. This quote...

"I don't have a problem with Clinton being a woman. But sometimes I get the feeling that she does. And, frankly, that lack of comfort in her own skin, and with her own identity, turns me off."

Perfectly describes why Hillary has not done well, and will not do well with women voters (and really, all voters) in the Midwest. I could never quite put my finger on why Midwesterners don't like her, but you've nailed it. Very well said.