My heart tells me that Obama is our last great hope

[Superman Returns]

If Hillary is nominated and/or elected, I for see more partisan divide, more cynicism in government, a revived right-wing that generates it's passion from Clinton hatred, and a generation that continues to feel alienated by politics in Washington. This was our last best hope people, to build a Democratic majority and inspire a new generation of voters. A Clinton nomination will not transcend the blue v. red states, it will once again be a 50 plus 1 election. And while Clinton may very well win, it will only produce marginal gains for a progressive agenda. It will not change the big picture. This was our chance to rise above politics as usual, to inspire. Clinton will just be another divisive political figure that will cause the political pendulum to most likely shift back to the right and allow the GOP to regain Congress after her first term. Folks, Barack Obama was the ultimate game changer. This was a "1968" election, and we only get those once a generation. This was ours.

[1corona4u]

1. Funny, that's exactly what my heart, and mind, told me about Joe Biden.

[Birthmark]

2. Don't listen to your heart.

It appears to be presumptuous.

[regnaD kciN]

6. ...and abandon "false" hopes, right?

:eyes:

[JCMach1]

3. I don't believe in White Knights... America has got to learn to save itself!

[Superman Returns]

4. How about black knights? jk

[JCMach1]

48. That would be Huckabee I think...

[AmBlue]

38. John Edwards is clearly showing us the way.

While Obama is wildly popular with the college set right now, please don't fail to look at all the top candidates' policies and message. We only have to look a little bit to get past The CON (Corporate Owned Media) to see that Edwards is the ONLY candidate not awash in corporate lobbyists' money. He's NEVER taken money from a Washington lobbyist and never will. It makes me sad to say it, but Obama has taken over $2 million from the drug and health insurance industries and Hillary is even worse, taking huge sums from the military industrial complex. Meanwhile, the CON works hard to keep us all from hearing what Edwards has to say. Are we going to let them get away with it and choose our President for us? What if they choose Hillary because the other side thinks she is the easiest to beat? That's what they are doing!

This election is all about HUMANS VS. CORPORATIONS. Obama is a wonderfully inspiring speaker, but if you follow the money, he is playing the game of the corporatocracy. It was good for him not to be the winner tonight. It gives time for the full truth to come out about all the candidates and for us to spread the message of the one candidate that is already working hard for us by driving the debate and bring the hard issues we all face into the spotlight: John Edwards.

I understand crushed hopes because I supported Edwards in 2004 and saw him lose. But this race is far from over and Obama is very much still in it. Don't lose heart. If Obama wins in the final analysis, he will be a better candidate for having been tested.

***

Please read this article to learn more about Obama:

Barack Obama Inc.: The birth of a Washington machine
by Ken Silverstein
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/11/0081275

Here's a quote from the article:
On condition of anonymity, one Washington lobbyist I spoke with was willing to point out the obvious: that big donors would not be helping out Obama if they didn’t see him as a “player.” The lobbyist added: “What’s the dollar value of a starry-eyed idealist?”

[knight_of_the_star]

50. America has before and will again

It is not the valor of the great heroes at the front that brings victory to the assembled host but the devotion to the cause that unites it.

[TwilightGardener]

5. I agree--well-said. If he's finished, I will tune out of politics again for a while.

I didn't much care for either Gore or Kerry--I voted for them, but wasn't excited about them. Obama is the first candidate I've ever been truly excited about. Not sure what I'll do if/when he's gone.

[FrenchieCat]

7. I may have to join you.....

because it will mean that America is not about US so much.....but about them.

To see Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton...as an immigrant makes me cry for my children.

[sandnsea]

11. My first ancestors came here in the 1600's

For me, it's more like, what the hell has this been about. They should have stayed in France. :)

[FrenchieCat]

20. I'm starting to scratch my ass wondering how I got here......

I had heard that it was the land of opportunity and equality. I'm still waitin'. Well, OK, I probably did better than I would have in France. But since 2000, this place sucks!

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

45. You know, scary thing is, I'm seeing lots of Americans now going *back* to France-- permanently

Massive emigration especially of young, educated American professionals to France, Italy, Germany in particular. Depending I guess on language skills, ancestry, that sort of thing. Many raising kids there-- they're now Europeans, reversing the path of their ancestors.

I've never, ever seen this before. And people I talk to, say this really isn't conditional on which party is in power-- they're disgusted with the corporate headlock on our country, and all the corruption it's caused.

That being said, I've met many actively pondering emigration to a European country, who are excited by Obama and the changes he would bring. But they have little interest in staying here if a Rethuglican or Hillary were elected, with Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton-- it would just be more confirmation of the corporatist, arrogant stranglehold on the halls of power. This is what people originally came to America to escape-- now, the USA has much less social mobility than European countries. And Hillary would bring the polarization and division to a new apex.

[sandnsea]

47. I encourage young families to go

You can invent something and be rich in one of those countries just the same as here. And if that doesn't happen and it usually doesn't, at least you haven't given your entire life over to the bosses only to be tossed aside when you're sick or old. I think it's just a better way to live. Probably why there's less crazy crime.

[regnaD kciN]

49. Maybe, but...

...I'm not sure where to go (assuming I could gain residency and then citizenship) France? They've got their own right-wing leader, who would like nothing more than to import "the American way" over there. Germany? Also run by conservatives. England? Likely about to elect a Tory government. Canada? Harper is nothing more than Dubya with a different accent. I grew up in Switzerland and loved it, but it's hard as hell to emigrate there unless you're rich. Besides, they just elected far-right nationalists, too.

The more it goes on, the fewer "safe havens" there appear to be. :-(

[sandnsea]

52. I'm talking social services and culture

Like that guy in Michael Moore's film said, Sweden I think, a conservative there is a liberal in the US. I know it's hard to go anywhere, I'm just saying when people have mentioned it at DU, I'm one to say GO. Especially people planning on a family. Peace of mind and contentment is worth so much when raising kids. Why would it be so awful to provide a home helper if it prevented incidents like Andrea Yates. Why don't our people think that way. I can't even imagine what it's like to live among people who are supportive and nurturing instead of having to watch your back every second of the day.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

61. Remember, Europe's "right" is much less wingnut than our Right (and Left!)- cultural difference

Most of my own friends naturally are liberal-leaning, yet they live in places like France and Germany which indeed do have "Conservative" governments. (The UK seems to be unpopular for some reason, just too crowded and litter-strewn as I've been told. :( )

The reason being, that even European countries under "Conservative" governments have much less in the way of big business kissing-up than in the USA, and they *care* for their citizens there.

Europe is still an entrepreneurial place with lots of high-tech opportunities for those who work hard, but it's a much better place to raise families.

Indeed, almost all of my friends who've emigrated there are very well-educated professionals esp. in tech fields, and most are raising kids in those countries. Much better schools, better infrastructure and so forth. Keep in mind, people have to learn a language such as German or French to flourish there, so it takes commitment, but with that, they can also earn very good money just translating technical or creative documents from English into French, Italian or German.

Plus, it's nice to draw a salary in Euros instead of dollars!

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

65. Just spoke with an old pal who's moving her family to Italy

She's part Italian-American and Italy apparently has a program to give expedited working rights and citizenship to Italian-Americans, Italian-Canadians and Italian-Australians. The only hitches are that you need to speak some Italian, not necessarily fluently but at least at basic level and then be committed to learn Italian when you get there (or speak German for those who live up in the Alpine northern Italian region, which she told me is German-speaking), and it does help if you have a skilled background as some kind of professional. But Italy's apparently rolled out the welcome mat for millions of overseas Diaspora who are taking advantage of the offer.

I asked her why-- she has two daughters in tow who are now going to grow up Italian rather than American-- and she said it was part economic (nose-diving dollar, better Euro in Italy), but she just couldn't identify with the country anymore. The mass corporatization, cynicism, loss of mutual respect, she just didn't fit in here. My guess is the current campaign ugliness and even the prospect of vote fraud in New Hampshire, might be having similar effects on other jaded Americans. Sad to see so many of our best and brightest leaving like this.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

69. Just spoke to another now leaving for France (Limoges)

one of the smartest people I've known, electrical engineering but GOP corporatism and outsourcing have been ruining the industry. So he's taking his family (his daughter isn't even 2 years old yet) to Limoges early next year. I was surprised since he didn't take any French in school, but apparently he just got some French audiotapes, studied some grammar books over the month, practiced a little with the Haitian community (he's down in Florida) and got good enough to speak converstionally. I guess it's not hard to speak a language well when you're surrounded by it. And he says he doesn't care who wins in 2008, it's all corporatism, all the time.

There it goes, yet another professional American leaving in frustration for another nation. This really is becoming a pattern.

[murielm99]

8. Don't tune out.

If your candidate is finished, you need to help the grassroots find another person who can be nurtured and brought up through the ranks into national politics.

Look at Howard Dean. There are still many people who think he should have been President. He took his experience and turned it into Democracy for America and the chairmanship of the DNC. His 50-state strategy was one of the best ideas in years. He did not tune out. He did not allow his supporters to tune out.

If we all tune out, we will have another generation of neocons ruling this country. We simply can't survive it.

[Egnever]

18. If hillary wins we lose Howard as well

and get Harold ford instead.

But you are probably right we wont survive it. I think our only shot if she gets in is if a thrid party emerges.

[regnaD kciN]

30. Actually, I think Howard is out anyway...

The DNC Chair position is only for four years, and it's pretty much standard procedure to not seek another term. I suspect he'll leave that position in 2009 and return to DFA or maybe another run of his own.

[Barack_America]

9. My heart tells me that if we don't elect a Democrat to the White House...

...that our chance to rebuild our reputation and stature in this world is lost.

And I simply don't believe that Hillary would be elected. If the reports that the independents went for Obama in NH are true, then my fear of Hillary getting the nomination are greatly heightened. I really think that a Hillary nomination = another Republican President.

I'm not 100% sold on Obama, but I'm supporting him.

[sandnsea]

10. I'll get a lot more work done with Clinton in office

if it hasn't all been outsourced to India that is.

Not just hope, but faith. I don't really have much anyway, but the last 30 years has been unfathomable to me. And the Clintons back in the White House??? whatever.

[regnaD kciN]

14. You'll need to...

...to pay for your "individual mandate" health insurance premiums!

[sandnsea]

34. Well thanks a bunch for that

I don't know why they didn't run on that in NH. I thought those people didn't like taxes and mandates. Maybe the campaign forgot.

[regnaD kciN]

51. Because the Clinton campaign has managed to reframe the proposal...

...from "individual mandate" to "universal mandate." The plan itself is still as bad, but now opponents can be cast as "opposed to mandating universal coverage" -- i.e., not believing that all Americans should get healthcare, when what they're really opposed to is forcing people, by law, to pay hundreds per month to insurance companies.

The Clintonistas may be unprincipled, but they aren't stupid.

[regnaD kciN]

12. I especially agree with this part...

And while Clinton may very well win, it will only produce marginal gains for a progressive agenda. It will not change the big picture. This was our chance to rise above politics as usual, to inspire. Clinton will just be another divisive political figure that will cause the political pendulum to most likely shift back to the right and allow the GOP to regain Congress after her first term.

My fear is that, even if Clinton were to win (and I think it's damning that, in this of all years, we still legitimately have to say "if" in her case), we'll get little more than the wan DLC centrism that so typified her husband's years in office -- a centrism that meant that his major legacy consisted of moving U.S. jobs overseas through NAFTA and kicking poor people to the curb with the "Personal Responsibility Act."

As someone else noted tonight, we don't need another DLC Democrat who will, if elected, only move this country inches instead of yards...particularly when it leads once again to a Republican coming in afterwards and moving it miles in the opposite direction.

My only hope is that your "was" throughout ("this was our last best hope," "this was a '1968' election," "Obama was the ultimate game changer") were all typos, and you realize the proper tense should be "is."

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

13. The best, most perceptive summary I've seen so far today

You've really nailed it here. DUers naturally are going to disagree on which candidate to support, but one thing we can all agree on is how polarizing Hillary is to the nation. She's even polarizing for us hardcore Democrats! Obama is a more consensus candidate and capable of uniting the nation. Hillary would divide us further. Besides, having Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton would be just antithetical to the independent spirit that is supposed to define our nation. The best way to alienate already jaded Americans from the electoral process would be to nominate someone like Hillary on our side. Not just because of the dynasty thing-- because of the Iraq War-supporting, pro-big business thing, far more.

[regnaD kciN]

17. Alienating, indeed...

I find it striking how many good, long-time Democrats have told me then not only can't stand Hillary (with the sort of intense aversion they usually reserve for Republicans), but say they won't bother voting for president in November at all (or voting third-party) if she's the nominee. And, while some of these people might be persuaded/pressured/scared into holding their noses and voting for the lesser of two evils, I can bet a whole lot of them won't.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

32. Yeah, I've been at Dem meetings where "write-in contests" have been sponsored

in the eventuality of a Hillary nomination, eliciting various candidates (some facetious, most serious) that disaffected Democrats would write in. While the prospect of an Obama or Edwards nomination generates broad-based support. This just reaffirms the vibe I've been getting all along-- Hillary's support is superficial while opposition against her is broad and extremely vitriolic, even among many Democrats. While Obama and Edwards don't yet have the same name recognition and comfort level, but much broader and deeper support and nothing in the way of similar deep-seated opposition. They'd be much better unifiers, especially Obama as the OP notes.

The bitter anti-Hillary opposition isn't just Republicans or even Independents, among Democrats, the resentment over Iraq and her pro-business stances is intense. The machinations prior to the New Hampshire primary, and the angry tone as the NYT editorial noted, if anything have just made things even worse for already skeptical or disillusioned Democrats. Again, outside of DU, the vast majority of Democrats aren't automatic Democratic voters in a general election.

The truth is, part of the "burning anti-Republican vote" ebbed out after the Democrats retook Congress in 2006. If we want to win in 2008, we'll need a candidate that really does have the support of our base.

[regnaD kciN]

53. The thing I've noticed...

...is that Democrats around here who follow politics closely, have a sense of the Democratic heritage, and are attuned to the issues -- in other words, those most likely to be active in politics -- tend to dislike Hillary even more than the right-wing does, though for entirely different reasons.

Last Summer, there was a Democratic Party booth at the local civic festival, including a "straw poll" allowing people to pick their candidate. Obama and Edwards were far in the lead, with Hillary well behind. Talking to the local Party leaders who had set up the booth brought home how they (even though in the mythical "Boomer women" demographic that is supposedly HRC's greatest asset) didn't like her or her politics at all, and were hoping that someone (like Al Gore?) could come forward to deny her the nomination.

What I've also noticed is that this opposition is much more entrenched and hard-edged than normal. I knew a lot of Deaniacs in 2004 who detested Kerry for his IWR vote, but allowed that they would still vote for him if he was the nominee. Those who dislike Hillary this time, OTOH, won't even concede that much. I've never heard so many dedicated Democrats saying that, if a certain candidate is the nominee, they won't vote in the presidential election, even if it means a Republican victory. That's pretty strong animosity, and certainly would be disastrous in a close race.

[RummyTheDummy]

46. Count one more here

And it's not that I don't like her. I actually like her a lot. But I'm finihsed with the Bush-Clinton dynasty. It's bad for the country. If she's the nominee I may hold my nose and vote for her, but I'm more likely to vote in the local elections and leave president blank...or go bowling. Time will tell.

Come to think of it, in the unlikely event it's between her and Rudy I might vote for Rudy out of protest.

[terisan]

21. What makes you think Obama is not pro-big business?

[Egnever]

25. This

http://usaspending.gov/

[terisan]

31. Sorry I don't see the connection with that and Obama being anti0big business

[Egnever]

33. You don't?

You don't think that is the beginning of taking big businesses power away? Exposing the contracts for all to see isn't a great first step to controlling their influence?

[terisan]

36. That is a govt site. it has nothing showing Obama being opposed to big business.

[Egnever]

39. Obama made that site happen

Today (Dec 13th) Senator Obama and Republican Senator Tom Coburn commended the Office of Management and Budget for its ahead-of-schedule launch of www.USAspending.gov, the most comprehensive searchable database of federal spending ever made publicly available.

This website, nicknamed "Google for Government", is the result of a bill that was sponsored by Obama and Coburn and signed into law last year. This is part of Obamas larger effort to take our government back from the special interests and put it in the hands of the American people by bringing transparency to the way decisions are made in Washington.

More info can be found at http://obama.senate.gov/press/071213-coburn_and_obam/

[terisan]

58. Thank you. It is a great site. Very helpful. nt

[regnaD kciN]

55. Another point...

Obama is a more consensus candidate and capable of uniting the nation. Hillary would divide us further.

The thing is that, although I like Obama's appeals to unity and conciliation, I would not normally be opposed to a candidate who might "divide us further," if the cause for which they might divide us is serious and worthy enough. Sometimes, you have to "saddle up and ride into battle"...but not for a "cause" of maintaining the status-quo, or merely replacing the PNAC agenda with a DLC one. And especially not when you have a less-polarizing candidate who would accomplish far more to repair the damage done to America over the past eight years.

[Egnever]

15. Well said and my greatest fear

If hillary gets the nod I will vote for her cause I couldnt stand to have rudi or mcain or any of the asshats on the other side. But it will be my last vote for a democrat for a long time. I detest the DLC and a victory by her will validate them yet again and it will be time for me to part ways with the dems.

I think theres a lot of that feeling out there and in the end it might have the effect of actually saving our democracy because I do believe it will fracture the party and with the republicans also in tatters it will leave room for a true third way.

That or it will be time for me to tune out again and try to do all I can to make sure my family is taken care of as best I can and even possibly look towards moving to another country. We will have given in completely to the corporations and it will only be a matter of time untill we once again become serfs.

[regnaD kciN]

29. I think the biggest problem a lot of people here have with HRC...

...can be summed-up in an old quote from the late, great Molly Ivins, who said that it's no longer a matter of "left versus right," but "up versus down" -- the "ruling class" versus the rest of us.

Hillary, with her corporate backing, her Big Pharma money, her Seven Sisters/Ivy League arrogance and entitlement, her willingness to waste the blood of our soldiers in Iraq, is definitely in the "up" camp...and most of us believe Democrats should be aligning themselves with the "down" camp instead.

[K Gardner]

16. Don't say "was".. say "is". Our last great hope is not gone. Beautiful post !

:kick:

[2rth2pwr]

19. Any President is going to be "divisive", how do you compromise or

find a middle ground on repealing Roe v Wade? Privatizing SS, restoring Habeus Corpus, Universal Health Care v Free Market Care, reforming FEMA,
prosecuting this administrations criminals, Extending or reversing the B*sh tax cuts, No Child Left Behind, CAFE standards, signing Kyoto like treaties,
Our position vis a vis Israel/Palestein??

Was there a way to split the difference on Slavery?

Once you get down to policies and legislation, division is the outcome.

[Egnever]

23. I dont buy it

Have you listened to what the republicans are saying about Obama? They like him !

There is the potential there for a lot of healing for our country with Obama as president. With hillary we go right back to square one.

[2rth2pwr]

24. They might like him and respect his skillz, but that will

never make them support giving illegals drivers licenses.

[Egnever]

27. perhaps not but they will support him opening up our government to public scrutiny

Especialy if the Dems control the government.

[Skip Intro]

22. He's not.

sorry, he's just not.

[Seabiscuit]

So... you buy into the MSM's pretense that Edwards doesn't count?

[Egnever]

28. I dont, but I do buy into the premise

that he doesnt have a chance to get nominated.

[Seabiscuit]

35. Then you've been completely brainwashed by the MSM.

Let me guess: you're addicted to Tweety and Wolf.

[Egnever]

41. LOL

point me to a state where he leads. If you can show me one I'll buy into the brainwashing BS

[Seabiscuit]

60. See what I mean? You're still craving poll numbers. The MSM has you by the short hairs.

Haven't you noticed how completely wrong the pollsters were after the New Hampshire results came in?

They were also wrong in Iowa.

And I recall they predicted a Dean victory in Iowa four years ago, with Gephart coming in 2nd.

Tweety and Wolf base their obnoxious prognostications on the same polls you exhibit a craving for.

[Seabiscuit]

63. In case you haven't noticed, there are still 48 states out there where the people

haven't voted yet.

As Edwards begins winning more and more of them, you'll be looking for a rock to crawl under to hide your hubris.

[ellisonz]

40. "I'm against corporations but I love me some hedge funds!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_fund
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=3152277

[and-justice-for-all]

26. I will vote for Obama, but Edwards is my first choice. nt

[annie1]

37. If she is elected, he'll stick it to her every day. If he's worth his weight that is.

[Egnever]

42. To the top one time

cause this OP speaks for me

[K8-EEE]

43. No diss to Obama at all but that reminds me of "truthiness"

Remember all the people whose "hearts" (or Jesus) told them to vote for GWB?

[regnaD kciN]

56. Remember that "all those people"...

...managed to give Bush two terms as President*.

The clue there is that you have to win people's hearts, not just convince their heads, in order to triumph. If you just sit back and declare "anybody who uses their 'heart' to decide is stupid," don't be surprised if you spend a lot of election nights wondering just how it is that the "stupid people" won.


*(Even if the 2000 election was thrown by the SCOTUS, and a rigged count in Ohio prevented Kerry from an Electoral College victory four years later, Bush still won the popular vote the latter time.)

[dailykoff]

44. I wouldn't count him out.

He's up against a lot more than just Hillary but he's a smart guy and maybe he'll figure out a way to slay the dragon. Too bad Kerry couldn't but at least he showed us where it lives.

[killbotfactory]

54. The last thing we need is another victory for the DLC

Or it will be eight more years down the fucking drain.

[regnaD kciN]

57. And that's a best-case scenario...!

The worst-case scenario would be "two more years before Republicans regain control of Congress, and another two before they retake the White House...possibly for a long time."

:scared:

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

64. Yeah, this underlies the reasoning of many Dems I've encountered

who won't vote for Hillary under any circumstances even if nominated. Even if this would mean a Republican winning in 2008, their plank is that it would finally undermine the DLC for good, allowing for a true progressive to win in 2012 when-- sad, but almost certainly true-- the damage to the economy and our international standing will be so severe as to allow a Democrat to sweep in and oust a GOP incumbent. They have a point with this.

[readmoreoften]

59. My heart tells me that Obama is an inexperienced Hillary with good speechwriters.

If he fails, it's because he failed to distinguish himself from her.

[truebrit71]

62. If she's nominated she won't be elected...that's why Obama is the the last hope...

...HRC will get the republican voters to the polls in droves...and she WON'T get the swing voters either...she will ensure a GOP victory in November...

But don't tell that to the HRC Lemmings....:eyes:

[Karenina]

66. . .

:popcorn:

[goku2008]

67. obama is best hope

he attracts indies and pukes, the people needed to win in november

[depakid]

68. "This was a "1968" election, and we only get those once a generation."

Obama supporters would do well to read up on the results of the 1968 election.

[dailykoff]

70. The chimpolini "legacy" depends on getting his pals back into the WH.

I have to wonder just what deals these guys have cut.

[workinclasszero]

71. It could be a whole new day..

This was a "1968" election, and we only get those once a generation. This was ours.I totally agree with you.

I am sooo sick of the politics of personal destruction, red states, blue states, reich-wing haters tearing this country apart for personal profit.

Obama would be a clean break with the last 40 years of hateful politics. The kind that defines us by what we can't do, the grim future kind.

Maybe I was a little too optimistic....