The only one that has truly victimized Hillary Clinton is Bill Clinton...

[Bread and Circus]

as far as we know.

He is the one that fucked around on her twice (and he is on record admitting it) and embarrassed himself and his family in the process. Frankly, it's not anyone's business but theirs but it's true and it's there. She forgave him (apparently) and I guess that's great (although I'm not sure if it was Stockholm Syndrome or just political expediency).

However, Obama and Edwards have not victimized Hillary one iota. And certainly not anymore than she has done to them. The bullshit, the mud, the half-truths, and the lies... the shit they all sling... it's just politics. None of them are clean, none are guilty.

Even the RW smear machine has not victimized Hillary. Sure, they victimized all of us and the constitution. But I think Bill and Hillary, despite all their crying and self pity, have had more than their fair share of fame, money, power, and access.

The real victims of the last few decades are the poor, the working class folks, the middle class folks, the voters, and lovers of the constitution. The largest victim is Democracy itself as we were once its shining light, its vanguard.

It's astounding to me that anyone buys the "Hillary as victim" canard. Same for Bill, President of the World, Presider of the Biggest Economic Expansion of the World, Clinton.

If she wins the nomination and even the GE, then good on her.

But don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

[Catherine Vincent]

1. WTF?

:wtf:

[wyldwolf]

2. *** yawn ***

[Taverner]

3. Hell, I don't think Bill victimized her

I don't think anyone is victimizing her - and certainly Clinton doesn't either.

[Old and In the Way]

4. crapola. nt

[tabatha]

5. He also victimed the US.

So many people were put off with Monicagate, that I am sure Gore would have done much better, and we would not have had 8 years of Bush. Even a very liberal person I know, said that Bill's actions harmed the democrats. That is why his "fairy tale" sticks in my craw.

[wyldwolf]

9. interesting you validate your fairy tale with the words of a "a very liberal person" you know.

Psss!

The day after his impeachment, Clinton's approval was 72%.

[tabatha]

23. I am aware of that...

I have defended Clinton up until recently.
I thought the Clinton bashing and witch-hunting was horrendous.
And I was very vocal in what I thought was the stupidity, meanness about it.
In fact, there is one person (conservative) who will not argue with me about this - because all he can see about Clinton is Monicagate.
That is why I used to think a Hillary victory would be great payback. But not anymore.


And, I would not mention the "liberal" person by name because it is inappropriate - but it is completely valid.
If I can dig up the e-mail, I'll post it.

[rinsd]

6. Um putting out a story that her aide is her secret lesbian lover is not victimizing someone?

"Even the RW smear machine has not victimized Hillary."

I am speechless.

[Bread and Circus]

16. That's some bullshit I haven't heard but no, it's NOT vicitmization

The Clinton camp has tried to lead people to believe that somehow Obama was educated at a madrassa (which has been debunked)but that's not victimization either.

It's politics and it's ugly and if anything the Clinton seems more soiled of this type of behavior.

But it is not victimization.

This is a meme ginned up by the Clinton camp as far as I can tell but I just can't tolerate it.

[rinsd]

22. What color is the sky in your world?>

Where the rw hasn't victimized the Clintons(specifically in addition to the entire country in general) and Mo Dowd writes perfect analysis.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Let He Who Is Without Sin...

"He is the one that fucked around on her twice (and he is on record admitting it) and embarrassed himself and his family in the process. Frankly, it's not anyone's business but theirs but it's true and it's there. She forgave him (apparently) and I guess that's great (although I'm not sure if it was Stockholm Syndrome or just political expediency). "



According to the Gospel of John, the Pharisees, in an attempt to discredit Jesus, brought a woman charged with adultery before him. Then they reminded Jesus that adultery was punishable by stoning under Mosaic law and challenged him to judge the woman so that they might then accuse him of disobeying the law. Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.” The people crowded around him were so touched by their own consciences that they departed. When Jesus found himself alone with the woman, he asked her who were her accusers. She replied, “No man, lord.” Jesus then said, “Neither do I condemn thee: go and sin no more.”

[Bread and Circus]

12. I don't know what your point is but...

I appreciate the reference to Jesus as I think he is one of the world's best liberals and progressive characters.

As far as I'm concerned Monicagate should have never been actionable news. It was their private family problem and his private personal failing.

However, as a smart person, you have to admit when a Husband (or a Wife) cheats on a spouse, that they are wronging that person and abusing that person because you are breaking a sacred trust. This is an admitted thing he did and it wasn't the first affair. Remember Hillary's "Tammy Wynette" moment?

So any reasonable person (and unfortunately political seasons aren't a time for reason) would say that is a form of victimization.

However, political gamesmanship and even downright dastardly behavior, is some both parties do. Even JFK got into office partly because of rigged election mechanics in Chicago.

When the parties are fighting and when the nominees are fighting, openly as they are, there are no victims.

For Bill and Hillary to play the "victim" card, which I think any reasonable person can see they did, is laughable.

These are two of the most powerful, well-moneyed, well-connected, people in our country, and certainly rank up their on a global scale. They are not victims.

I think your "let he without sin" reference is apt and particularly apt for the Clinton family. They are not without personal, moral, or political sin. It's pollyanna to think otherwise. It's therefore a foul canard they play here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Clinton Is Weak When It Comes To Controlling His Libido

The paradox is I believe he loves and respects Hillary a great, great,great deal...

[Bread and Circus]

21. Well, that is probably true and I hope so and I hope she loves

him too.

But I think the original post stands on the merits of truth and reality.

[niceypoo]

8. OK, so you hated Bill Clinton all through the 90s

..and you use right wing talking points to further that hatred. The point of you post is.....? Are you sure your on the right board ? (might wanna try www.freerepublic.com)

[Bread and Circus]

13. Actually, I voted for him twice. Your obvious willfull lack of paying...

attention to my point is nothing but a misdirection.

[Tess99]

10. It's the victimization and enabling that's gotten her where she is today. n/t

[madrchsod]

11. bill did`t victumize hillary

what ever his failings were as a president she was right beside him

[Tess99]

17. What Bill did to her for all those decades

and most likely still does to her if you believe the rumors, is abusive. She has the means to leave yet she stays. I don't have sympathy for that at all, because she choses to benefit from the abuse. That, however, doesn't change the fact that what he does is emotionally abusive.

[LostinVA]

15. And I bet you -- and many others -- don't see how sexist this is

[Bread and Circus]

18. What's sexist is anyone voting for Hillary just because she is a woman.

And anyone voting against her just because she is a woman.

Yeah those two scenarios are sexist and both probably exist to a large degree. Certainly the former, in the case of NH.

However, my statements are not sexist, racist, or "ist" of any kind.

You can throw the "sexist" meme in the trash too, because that's where it belongs.

The shoe doesn't fit, and that dog doesn't hunt.

[Tess99]

20. I hope Hillbots keep playing the sexist thing. Ain't gonna work anymore.

[Kokonoe]

19. Americans are stupid and all the candidates know it.

I just try to see how each candidate tries to exploit the 42% percent of brain damaged sheeple. To her credit(with corporate backing)Love her or hate her she hardly misses a beat.If she wins I hope she takes the gift and remembers how the Clintons were treated on the way out the door and who her only real friends are dying without money to pay for it.