Obama won White Men and rural voters: NO BRADLEY EFFECT!!!

[Zynx]

For goodness sakes, look at the areas and voters he carried. If this was racism it sure had a funny way of showing it. I call bullshit on all of those who think this was a display of racism.

[AngryAmish]

1. But it looks like the gender gap is alive and well

[Zynx]

2. Oh yeah it is.

Alive and kicking.

[Renew Deal]

3. It's lazy media.

They suggested this because they couldn't think of anything else.

[Zynx]

5. The problem is how damaging that sort of talk is.

This could really cost us votes later on if we don't check it.

[sandnsea]

22. With black voters more than white

Go read some articles about what some of the black politicians in the south are saying about voting for Clinton and not getting your hopes up on a black President. This feeds right into that.

[sandnsea]

21. Some Democrats are pushing it now

Steve, whatever his name is, just was on MSNBC. It scares southern black voters who don't think white people will vote for a black man. The Clinton machine will be talking it up, guaranteed.

[jasmine621]

4. Exactly. White men fear and loathe Hillary more than Obama.

They know full well that Obama won't be able to win the national election, but with strong support from women, HC can pull it off. Flame away, but I know my people.

[Xipe Totec]

7. It that were true, they would've voted for Edwards

I don't think the analysis hold up to the facts.

[Zynx]

10. Don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

[Renew Deal]

19. Obama was more "electable" in the exit poll.

There goes that theory.

[TwilightGardener]

6. I don't think it was racism. Obama would not ever play the race-victim

card, and we supporters shouldn't either.

unlike hillary, who will certainly play the gender-victim card, shamelessly.

[Bluerthanblue]

8. thank you- you are right. I'm a rural

white woman- and our little town went 2-1 in favor of Obama. The 2 votes our household had went to Barak.


214 Obama 106 Clinton 80 Edwards 10 Kucinich 20 Richardson

We had a great turnout. We're a small town.

[Zynx]

9. Exactly. If the small town rural vote had broken against Obama, then

I might go "Okay.", but since it was for him it was something else.

[Cameron27]

11. MSNBC has been pushing this meme

since last night. My feelings; a Clinton win is too unpalatable for the likes of Matthews and Scarborough, so they're trying to build up a sympathy backlash for Obama. MSNBC has also come under scrunity for it's biased reporting, and inability to predict last night's winner, so they've got a big CYA program working today.

[Zynx]

16. They're trying to hurt our standing with African Americans.

[sandnsea]

12. I don't think it was either n/t

[TeamJordan23]

13. How about white women? nm

[Zynx]

14. What about them?

Go ahead. Call the white women in New Hampshire a bunch of racists. Then we can start our debate.

[Tess99]

20. White women can't be racist? Oh, Lord.

[Zynx]

23. Sure they can, but overwhelmingly more racist than rural White Men?

I have NEVER seen evidence to suggest that.

[Anouka]

25. I know. It's a return to the pedestal....

whether they realize it or not, when they make those arguments.

[Tess99]

26. Exactly. Hillary played into the white damsel thing in NH.

No respect for that woman. And yes, white women can be just as racist and nasty as white men. They too have white priviledge.

[Anouka]

33. Exactly. :( n/t

[Zynx]

27. More racist than rural white men?

I have NEVER seen statistical evidence that verifies this. Calling New Hampshire voters a bunch of racists is nothing short of bizarre. Massachusetts voted overwhelmingly for a black governor in 2006. Do you really think New Hampshire is some racist backwater?

[Zynx]

28. More racist than rural white men?

I have NEVER seen statistical evidence that verifies this. Calling New Hampshire voters a bunch of racists is nothing short of bizarre. Massachusetts voted overwhelmingly for a black governor in 2006. Do you really think New Hampshire is some racist backwater?

[Zynx]

29. More racist than rural white men?

I have NEVER seen statistical evidence that verifies this. Calling New Hampshire voters a bunch of racists is nothing short of bizarre. Massachusetts voted overwhelmingly for a black governor in 2006. Do you really think New Hampshire is some racist backwater?

[ellacott]

31. Wherewould you look for statistical evidence of this?

Racism is not based on geography or gender. Just because rural white men voted for him doesn't discount the possiblity that race could have been a deciding factor.

I don't even like to use the word racism because it is so misused on this board.

[debatepro]

15. ding ding ding

it's not just men folks. Not saying I agree the the Bradley Effect premise... but I didn't think it only applied to white men.

[Zynx]

17. Look, in every election, white men have been the indicator of racism.

Remember the David Duke race? How a majority of white men actually voted for him after polling differently. That is where you look.

[Zynx]

18. Also, how do you explain rural versus urban?

[Anouka]

24. Which is worse: accusation of racism or flakiness?

Remember a) women and city dwellers can be racist, too. It's not for rural white men alone; and b) having one's opinion turn on a dime because a woman shed tears -- and that was the only thing that mattered to you -- is flaky.

So, instead of accusing NH women of racism, it's perfectly fine to accuse women of flakiness. Yeah, that goes over real well with anyone (male or female) who can read between the lines. No, really.

[Zynx]

30. Racism exists everywhere, the question is to what degree.

Look, Massachusetts voted overwhelmingly for a black man as governor. Do you think New Hampshire is a racist backwater? Rural white men are historically where you look for a racist vote and there is no evidence. Urban women are not likely overwhelmingly racist. Prove it to me.

[Anouka]

32. So you are arguing that white women are flaky. Ok.

don't buy into the b.s. that it's mostly white rural men who are racist. racism is a human failure, and we -- regardless of gender or race -- are all human.


for me, it hurts to buy into the argument that white women in NH are flaky, flighty and easily moved by the appearance of tears and the appearance of losing in a debate with a man. that's not feminist at all. that's the opposite of feminism and strength. i can't do it. i don't think white women are flaky. i do think an excuse was used.

i'd much rather those women had not mentioned the tears at all ... and yet it keeps being mentioned, and even here women mention it with pride right before they go into 'it's payback time against men' mode.

that's why i do wonder, how many of the women who ate that b.s. up grew up in a time period when that type of b.s. was an acceptable and necessary survival method for many women, and that's why they found it sympathetic and found her 'human' instead of calculating. but i don't know.

something funny happened. even at its simplest -- cooked post-Iowa polls with hellacious margins of error -- that's STILL a bad thing. who cooked the polls? and why? or were they?

but got to move forward.

[moriah]

39. It's sad....

I don't think that Clinton's upswing was due to racism. I think the difference between the polls and the votes had to do with the "Iowa Bump" dropping, as well as the confrontation with Iran and women being POed that Hillary was getting slammed for so long for being a "robot" and then slammed for "crying".

http://dominantreality.blogspot.com/2007/12/final-iowanew-hampshire-polls.html

An example of the 2004 polling data...

------

But as far as racism in this country is concerned, yes there will be people who will refuse to vote for a Black candidate. However, poor Obama has one other thing going against him. He's not just Black, but the part of him that is Black is also foreign -- and "Muslim" despite the fact that his father was an athiest.

I live in the South. I know a lot of racists. I have a female coworker, not a Hillary fan, and she's from a rural part of my state. (She and I actually lived within a mile of each other about eight years ago when we both lived in that rural part of the state, we didn't know it at the time tho.) Last Friday morning when she came in I asked her if she'd heard the results of Iowa, and she hadn't. I told her Huckabee had one -- a good, Southern Republican governor. That was the first result I mentioned, because I assumed she was Republican. She seemed vaguely disappointed, then asked about the Democratic caucus. "Obama won by a landslide, Edwards and Hillary close but Edwards ahead."

"I don't like him and I'll never vote for him." Why?

"He's too ... foreign, and that's all I'll say at work."

My father, who wants Edwards, said "I'll never vote for a person when I can't pronounce their name." Then got more vitriolic, at which time I switched topics to the Cotton Bowl after telling him that Edwards said he didn't want his vote after all if he felt that way.

-------

Racism is alive and well, as I'm unfortunately too aware. I noticed that both of these people couched their objections to Obama's ethnicity not about him being Black, but essentially how soon the members of his family with darker skins left Africa and the fact that someone in his ancestry (even several generations back) worshiped Allah. Is that going to be the excuse people use to hide their racism?

[Anouka]

41. I believe it will be the excuse, his name and Allah, yes.

And that is troubling to me (even though I'm a hypocrite about that, considering that I wasn't going to give the time of day to Romney no matter what party he was under, or his policies successes or failures, but because he was a Mormon and I have issues with what I perceive as a cult which proclaims me lesser because of the color of my skin. That's my prejudice. It's not right, but there it is).

If that's the way the majority of this country feels, then it has to be dealt with, not brushed under the rug.

How do we as a country deal with it?

And how do Democrats deal with members of their own party refusing to accept other members in spite of their support of Democratic platforms, just because of the color of their skin or the sound of their name?

The Kennedys solution -- the fraud of Daley to counter irrational prejudice against Catholics -- was the wrong one.

It's been 40 years, there has to be a better solution now.

And women have to do better than being happy with cynically selfish manipulation, in pursuit of history.

Thank you, Moriah, for sharing your stories, by the way.

[niyad]

34. what the hell is the "bradley effect"???

[ellacott]

35. Bradley was a candidate for Mayor of Los Angeles

He was polling very high and lost the election. They found out(I guess through exit polls) that people didn't vote for him but did tell pollsters that they would vote for him. The same thing happened to Doug Wilder when he ran for Govenor of Virginia. Wilder did win but it was a much closer margin than what the polls indicated.

Some are dismissing it in this case but I think it could have been a factor.

[oasis]

37. Bradley lost his race for Governor of California to Dukemejian despite opinion polls

indicating comfortable lead for the L.A. mayor.

[ellacott]

38. I'm sorry, you are correct

He was already the Mayor.

My mistake

[oasis]

36. It was "The Iranian Republican Guard Effect". NH voters read the headlines

on their way to the polls.Then they immdeiately rejected Obama's Mr. Niceguy approach to Iranian terrorists.

[jackson_dem]

40. That has nothing to do with it what the Bradley Effect is

It has to do with some white voters saying they will vote for a black candidate in polls but not doing it on election day. It isn't about whether someone carries rural voters or white men.